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Author Topic: Questions about TIGHAR's pay scale  (Read 11022 times)

Ted G Campbell

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Questions about TIGHAR's pay scale
« on: November 23, 2015, 11:26:38 PM »

Folks,

Always remember to keep in mind there are always two aspects that need to be supported in any “non profit” endeavor.

First, is the cost of life style and expenses of the originators/organization/management of the endeavor.

Second, is the financial support for the efforts of the organization.

This secondary monetary obligation, unfortunately, is of less importance to the organization than the “first aspect” (see above).  The major historical significant of the objective and its cost naturally comes in as less important to the organization and is easily deferred to fund rising at a later time.

Ted
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Re: Reprieve for the subs
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 08:27:10 AM »

Sounds like some of you have been the victims of gross misunderstandings and outright falsehoods spread by a handful of TIGHAR critics. These rumors and the potential harm they could do was an agenda item at our September board of directors meeting.  We agreed that we need to expand the About TIGHAR section of the website to include more information about how TIGHAR works.  I'll get to that as soon as I can. 
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Tim Collins

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Re: Re: Reprieve for the subs
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 09:13:13 AM »

Sounds like some of you have been the victims of gross misunderstandings and outright falsehoods spread by a handful of TIGHAR critics.

Since you brought it up, how so? Please elaborate. I would think this is as a good an opportunity to clear up the misunderstandings and correct the falsehoods as any. Perhaps there is a transcript or an account of the bod meeting available where this was discussed? 
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Re: Reprieve for the subs
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 09:49:30 AM »

What Tim said. Minutes of the board meeting would be helpful.

Don't know about Pennsylvania, but in some states non-profits are required to file annual reports that include their minutes with that state's Secretary of State or a similar entity.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Re: Reprieve for the subs
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 10:04:51 AM »

What Tim said. Minutes of the board meeting would be helpful.

No problem.  See attached.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Re: Reprieve for the subs
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 12:28:54 PM »

Perhaps there is a transcript or an account of the bod meeting available where this was discussed?

We don't record the board meetings or hire a court reporter so there is no word-for-word transcript.  Pat takes notes from which we produce the Minutes. I've already posted the Minutes but I suspect they're not specific enough to satisfy The Inquisition.  There is no requirement that we produce Pat's notes but in this case I am happy to publish an excerpt and [elaborate].

*****************
Executive compensation. Start with question Tom raised.
[Tom King received an email from someone who wanted to remain anonymous.  He honored their request so I don't know who wrote the following:
" (The Guidestar Compensation Report) lists the percentiles and averages for salaries of CEOs of nonprofits with budgets between $250,000 and $500,000.
I consider TIGHAR, based on its contributions and income from its most recent tax form, to be within this bracket.  The 90th percentile (90 percent make less than this) compensation amount for CEO is $103,794 per year.  The average compensation is $64,317.  Ric's salary as reported in the 2013 tax statement was $185,623."]

TIGHAR’s average over the past six years is $890K gross so TIGHAR is not in the between $250,000 and $500,000 category.
The second error is that Ric is far more than a CEO. 

Lee: How many of the people in Guidestar lists are compensated at zero? [Lots of small nonprofits have part-time executive who have day jobs.]

Ric: We looked into what executives in comparable organizations are paid.  Could only find one, EAA. Much larger but they do many of same kinds of things - service members, produce publications, perform educational services, administer large projects, conduct fundraising, interact with government, etc.

[According to their 2013 990, EAA executives were paid as follows.  The second number in each case is "supplemental income" from other sources.

Founder               $68,563 + $670 = $69,233
[Paul Poberezny, who died mid-year.  The previous year he was paid $107,110]

Executive VP               $257,569 + $48,138 = $305,707

Development VP            $183,333 + $42,698 = $226,022

Advocacy & Gov’t Relations      $159,680 + $43,001 = $202,681

Government Relations VP         $155, 313 + $21,208 = $176,521

Communities & Member Prog VP      $195,669 + $33,141 =  $228,810

AirVenture F&A VP            $178,310 + $32,711 = $211,021

Human Resources VP         $164,212 + $27,464 = $191,676

Vice President, Marketing         $148,902 + $26,196 = $175,098

Attorney               $141,842 + $27,718 = $169,560

Director of Business Relations      $105,747 + $24,928 = $130,675

Controller               $104,181 + $29,680 = $133,861


At TIGHAR the Executive Committee (Ric and Pat) perform most of those functions.  TIGHAR has a unique situation in that the Executive Committee is a married couple so, for tax purposes, they show all of the compensation going to Ric. Ric is the most visible member of the management team so it's easy to miss that the compensation figure shown in the 990 actually represents two highly educated, dedicated, and talented people working seven days a week.  For fiscal year 2013 that figure was $183,685.  If we apply gender equality that's $91,842 each, considerably less than the compensation received for any of the department heads at EAA. TIGHAR is getting a bargain.]

Bill: The publicly known data don’t elucidate that.

Ric: But how do we get that info out?

Skeet: Maybe we need something on website that explains this sort of thing: Where does the contribution dollar go?
Dawn: yes.

Ric: Also need to talk about TIGHAR headquarters: TIGHAR center for aviation historical studies.

******************

Another common misconception is that Ric and Pat own the 11 acre farm that serves as TIGHAR HQ.  Two years ago we sold the split-level house in Delaware from which we had run TIGHAR for 21 years because the organization had outgrown that property.  We worked out an arrangement with a TIGHAR member who agreed to purchase a suitable property and lease it to us for five years after which we or TIGHAR would purchase it from him. The move lowered TIGHAR overhead and significantly improved efficiency. We used the proceeds from the sale of our house to pay off old debt. We now do not own property nor do we have savings or a retirement account.  Our commitment to TIGHAR is absolute.

Oh yes, and the horses.  Pat and I are both life long horse lovers. We rescued my 27 year-old Thoroughbred in 1993.  Anyone who knows me has heard way too many stories about the smartest horse on the planet. We also have a 7 year-old Morgan.  Our horses are not race horses or show horses. Having them here on the farm rather than at some remote location is more economical and gives us more time we can spend doing our job serving TIGHAR. 

« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 12:35:45 PM by Ric Gillespie »
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JNev

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Re: Re: Reprieve for the subs
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 06:10:01 PM »

Folks,

Always remember to keep in mind there are always two aspects that need to be supported in any “non profit” endeavor.

First, is the cost of life style and expenses of the originators/organization/management of the endeavor.

Second, is the financial support for the efforts of the organization.

This secondary monetary obligation, unfortunately, is of less importance to the organization than the “first aspect” (see above).  The major historical significant of the objective and its cost naturally comes in as less important to the organization and is easily deferred to fund rising at a later time.

Ted

I disagree, Ted.  My view is that such enterprises should be highly entrepreneurial in the sense that a 'product', i.e. feeding hungry, demonstrably fostering education in a unique way, etc. is created such that that which is 'produced', e.g. full bellies, bright minds finding fertile ground on which to truly advance individual growth or knowledge in striking ways, etc. - should be of sufficient value to justify the lifestyle enjoyed by the purveyor(s).  It should not exist so that the purveyor(s) may first live well, and then let the leftovers produce as they might.  Just sayin'.
- Jeff Neville

Former Member 3074R
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Re: Reprieve for the subs
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 09:01:06 PM »

My view is that such enterprises should be highly entrepreneurial in the sense that a 'product', i.e. feeding hungry, demonstrably fostering education in a unique way, etc. is created such that that which is 'produced', e.g. full bellies, bright minds finding fertile ground on which to truly advance individual growth or knowledge in striking ways, etc. - should be of sufficient value to justify the lifestyle enjoyed by the purveyor(s).  It should not exist so that the purveyor(s) may first live well, and then let the leftovers produce as they might.

I entirely agree.  "Bright minds finding fertile ground on which to truly advance individual growth or knowledge" is a good, if unecessarily flowery, way of describing what TIGHAR is all about.  [...]
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 07:13:41 AM by Martin X. Moleski, SJ »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Re: Reprieve for the subs
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 11:11:28 PM »

... I've asked Marty to move the off-topic postings to Extraneous Exchanges.  ...

Done.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Questions about TIGHAR's pay scale
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2015, 10:05:37 AM »

Very informative. Appreciate you posting this level of detail.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Questions about TIGHAR's pay scale
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2015, 10:13:20 AM »

Very informative. Appreciate you posting this level of detail.

Happy to oblige.  Living proof that no good deed goes unpunished.
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Jeff Scott

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Re: Questions about TIGHAR's pay scale
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2015, 12:43:43 PM »

I'm pleased to see the BOD meeting addressed some topics that have had me concerned for some time, sustainability and succession planning chief among them. One subject I was surprised to not see discussed is the latest tax statement given that the meeting occurred between the end of TIGHAR's fiscal year and the due date for the 990 form.  Is it a responsibility of the board to review and approve these documents before they are submitted to the IRS?  If so, when did that occur?

I ask since wasn't the filing deadline for TIGHAR on November 15?  I see the 2013-2014 990 form is still the one linked at http://tighar.org/about.htm.  When will the 2014-2015 form be posted?
It's not too late to be great.
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Questions about TIGHAR's pay scale
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2015, 01:24:54 PM »

Is it a responsibility of the board to review and approve these documents before they are submitted to the IRS?

No.  The Board reviews the organization's financial statements. The 990s are prepared by an accounting firm.

I ask since wasn't the filing deadline for TIGHAR on November 15?
 

We almost always end up filing an extension, as was the case this year.  As I recall the deadline is February 15.

When will the 2014-2015 form be posted?


After it's submitted.
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