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Author Topic: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.  (Read 35337 times)

Bill Lloyd

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2015, 05:41:25 PM »

There are provisions that allow a non profit to sell stock. Consider offering 250,000 shares at $250 to pay for an expedition.

Limit the offer to persons in the United States, as well as the UK, Guam, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands.

Shares to be purchased online with credit or debit cards, and also via mail.

Have means for purchasers to receive delivery of certificates.
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don hirth

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2015, 05:44:41 PM »

Gentlemen, Money, money, money. True enough, it's very important. However, if a future
expedition does not include an "in craft" pilot/s with the absolute ability to illuminate, film, tightly maneuver, grasp and remove an item/items for surface delivery, it's a waste of time. (And none of us are getting any younger.) Better to plan and build for another
3 - 4 years before launching the next attempt and then, ONLY with the proper equipment
and all necessary backups. Hopefully, the ravages of weather and water (over time) has
not rendered one more try a useless venture.
dlh
 
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Bob Smith

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2015, 06:07:52 PM »

Right on, Don. The only way to go!
Bob S.
 
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2015, 08:31:01 PM »

Greg, I still think the cruise line idea is a bad one. The connotations of providing a leisure, vacation, or cruise activity sets up the wrong mind set in the cruisers as well as the viewers. no matter what the cost.
Bob,
I'm not suggesting TIGHAR get in the cruise line business or provide leisure and cruise activities. I'm suggesting that there might be an advantage in getting a ride on a boat that might already be going there and doing whatever you can do. Be it taking additional soil samples on land, using small ROVs or some other research that does not require a sub or ROV.
 You don't have to charter a plane to get to the Fiji or Hawaii ports. You can save money by getting a ticket on a plane already going there. Because other people are on the plane vacationing does not mean you are on a vacation. I'm sure some might think its a leisure deal if TIGHAR were to have a group on board a cruise ship going there. But they are probably the same people who claim it's "vacation" every time TIGHAR goes there. I also see nothing wrong with providing on board lectures to help Betchart sell tickets and educate at the same time.
 ROVs have been proven to be useful tools in underwater research. Because there were problems with some does not mean you have to abandon them.
The topic is funding ideas and getting assistance. I see this as one small idea. I would love to see subs used too. It is probably the best way to investigate a larger area but it requires a lot of money. In my opinion the Debris Field is more of a "target", so using subs is not the only option.
3971R
 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 08:34:57 PM by Greg Daspit »
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Bob Smith

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2015, 07:13:20 AM »

We should use all the "tools" we can to help in achieving the most efficient and effective endeavor. There are also things we should not do because of the negative effects on not only the actual activities during the endeavor, but also the more subtle negative effects from the whole world's perception of TIGHAR's intentions. You may get a lot more people interested in the project, but not all of them are going to be what TIGHAR will benefit from. Sort of like when hiring new employees, do you just put an ad in the paper and accept all who enter the doors en mass, or do you interview each for the specific job being offered? You  gotta have some control!
As for the ROV's, they might be useful in up close and personal, if they canbe operated precisely and not be  thrown around by the currents. That hasn't been accomplished  to the satisfaction of my views except in some older videos, perhaps. But what good are the best ROV's if there is no provision for handling and testing?
Bob S.
 
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2015, 08:31:01 AM »

There are provisions that allow a non profit to sell stock. Consider offering 250,000 shares at $250 to pay for an expedition.


That's an interesting idea, Bill, and one TIGHAR's directors may want to pursue; once the financial house is back in good order, of course.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2015, 08:42:50 AM »

You have my vote for NOT providing pleasure cruises to the island, at least until after the solving of the original presumption. Mixing these sort of activities confuses people as to what is the real intent. (Is this a research or cruise company we are running?) I doubt if cruises qualify for non profit activities!? And it dilutes the true meaning of "research".

TIGHAR's tax statements identify it as a 501(c)(3), a steward of a public interest.

TIGHAR's public interest is promoting responsible aviation archaeology.

Solving the mystery of Amelia Earhart's disappearance would do this.

Educating the public about responsible aviation archaeology would do this.

The two are not incompatible. It would be great if both can be done.

The Betchart cruise was very educational.

We learned much. We made mistakes. We learned we had much to learn.

We were tourists but we were also students.

There was high spirit, and even higher seas. We respected the island and one another.

We observed all rules laid out for us by the two supervising archaeologists, and by officers of our ship.

All this seems to me to be consistent with TIGHAR's history, and befits its legal status as a tax-exempt organization on account of its role in educating members and subsets of members, but above all the public.

My two cents.

Joe Cerniglia
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Bob Smith

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2015, 12:05:40 PM »

I respect your view from a participant point of view, Joe, and you may have a good point. And many of us are envious of those who were able to go on the journey. But as an observer, I wasn't impressed with the feeling that most or at least some of the participants on the cruise were there mainly for a "cruise" and wanted to just get away for a great time. The fact that they were allowed to also experience a side  trip to a deserted island where Amelia Earheart supposedly landed her famous aircraft, must have been a great draw for the cruise company. But they have similar activities like this on every cruise, don't they? People get tired of cruising on a boat, and need a little something extra to make the whole experience attractive. I don't doubt that many things were learned and the supervisors were great. I don't  dispute that, but the question is the same: Does TIGHAR want be known and respected as a research company specializing in downed aircraft, or do they want to be known as "That Cruise Company" that took us to that island in the middle of somewhere in the Pacific Ocean. I feel the answer is coming soon. Got my fingers crossed!
Bob S.
 
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2015, 03:21:07 PM »

Find the plane then set up cruises!
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Ricker H Jones

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2015, 07:26:28 PM »

Although I'm not enthusiastic about a commercial joint venture, I would think there could be some mutual benefits from an educational partnership.  For example, a beneficial relationship--joint venture, if you will--with the University of Hawaii.  A graduate program in oceanography, marine science, marine geology or some such could prove beneficial to both the educational institution, the students, and TIGHAR.  Archeological and marine study opportunies would abound for the students; prestige and mutual support would benefit TIGHAR.  And the supporting educational institution would not need, nor expect, a profit-sharing arrangement.
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Bob Smith

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2015, 08:29:45 PM »

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout! Ricker. http://tighar.org/smf/Smileys/no_animation/grin.gif
Bob S.
 
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Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2015, 07:59:23 AM »

Does TIGHAR want be known and respected as a research company specializing in downed aircraft, or do they want to be known as "That Cruise Company" that took us to that island in the middle of somewhere in the Pacific Ocean. I feel the answer is coming soon. Got my fingers crossed!


The cruise company was Betchart Expeditions.

TIGHAR provided some planning and physical support.

An implacable minority once decried the wealthy from TIGHAR "going Indiana Jones-style." Now the yokels from Betchart overrun the island in cheap hats and sunglasses. Neither event happened.

Without a doubt the cruises will be no more, and they'll go back to complaining about Indiana Jones.

TIGHAR is a promoter of responsible aviation archaeology.

It has shown itself willing to take novel approaches if only they will get people to appreciate responsible aviation archaeology.

The "cruise" was one approach.

I think it was an effective one; there are others that might also be effective. Ricker's ideas are well-considered and thoughtful, as always.

I'm happy and grateful I got to see the island.

I recommend the experience to others for perspective on the Nikumaroro hypothesis and on responsible aviation archaeology.

Joe Cerniglia
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Bob Smith

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2015, 09:43:52 AM »

Yes, Betchart Expeditions was the cruise company, and they went to the island where TIGHAR just happened to be at the same time, led by the knowledgeable people that we know. Its the Image, Joe, the image that TIGHAR encouraged the cruise and wanted them there, by all means so they could find more artifacts and become a part of history! Did they, or didn't they? Had they all been qualified scientists and investigators of historical aircraft with the same reasons for being on the island as TIGHAR, it would have been a totally different image. I think with the exception of yourself and a few others, such was not the case.
Bob S.
 
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2015, 10:49:39 AM »

OK, I'll bite. How much, if any, money did TIGHAR receive for being involved in the Niku adventure cruise?

Or, how much, if any, money did TIGHAR have to spend supporting the Niku Adventure cruise activities?

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR no. 2189 EC
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2015, 11:11:31 AM »

OK, I'll bite. How much, if any, money did TIGHAR receive for being involved in the Niku adventure cruise?

Or, how much, if any, money did TIGHAR have to spend supporting the Niku Adventure cruise activities?

Per TIGHAR's contract with Betchart, TIGHAR received $100 for each paying participant in the Betchart cruise who was a TIGHAR member at the time of the cruise.  There were 16 passengers who fit that description and TIGHAR received $1,600.
We devoted the final day of the TIGHAR expedition to shepherding the tourists. Each day of the expedition cost TIGHAR $11,000.
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