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Author Topic: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)  (Read 145722 times)

Leslie G Kinney

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #210 on: February 11, 2016, 06:10:05 PM »

Les,.....Is this the strip of metal to which you were referring? Would you have some more images of that piece?
This is a pic of the aluminum trim piece.  It is being held up against the undercarriage trim of a Lockheed 12. We did measure the trim on the Lockheed 10's at Phoenix and Windsor Locks. They have  the same dimensions as the Lockheed 12 trim shown in the photograph.   
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Leslie G Kinney

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #211 on: February 11, 2016, 06:26:42 PM »

A ruler for scale would also be very helpful.

I'm puzzled by a couple of things: 1) The mention of reflective beading on the back of the putative dust cover. I find that very, very odd for something supposedly from the 1930s, and 2) The photo is too small to enlarge clearly, but there appears to be square "dimpling" on the intact oval-shaped piece, as well as the two partial oval-shaped pieces. I find that very, very odd for something that is supposed to be a cover or inspection plate on an aircraft.

If you do a deep Google or Bing search, the reflective bead paint was available in the 1930's. Whether Lockheed or whoever manufactured the alleged dustcover used reflective microscopic barium beads in their paint, I don't know. Our effort to obtain an answer from Lockheed was unsuccessful.

I did find one other item that was not analyzed. A magnet buried about a foot deep along the same trail as where the rest of the artifacts were found. The magnet is cylinder shaped about 1 and 1/4 inches long by 3/4 inches in diameter.   It still had some of its magnetic properties.

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Monty Fowler

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #212 on: February 11, 2016, 10:07:23 PM »

If you do a deep Google or Bing search, the reflective bead paint was available in the 1930's. Whether Lockheed or whoever manufactured the alleged dustcover used reflective microscopic barium beads in their paint, I don't know. Our effort to obtain an answer from Lockheed was unsuccessful.

Links to what you find is always very helpful to the rest of us.

I'm familiar with the problem of not being able to get definitive answers from Lockheed regarding what it may or may not have done with regards to aircraft construction 70 years ago. The larger questions are, What possible reason could there have been for putting reflective beads in paint for that part of the aircraft, and how common was that construction technique regarding the alleged trim in the 1930s?

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 10:11:25 PM by Monty Fowler »
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #213 on: February 11, 2016, 11:13:16 PM »

Thank you for that image Les,....In the attachment, I rotated it a bit ,so as to try to get my bearings on it's position. I drew a red arrow to a point of interest to me, ..is that a rust spot , a rivet hole , other??
Monty, I deal with a lot of vintage autos and motorcycles from the 30's and many of them have rolled edges on the fenders/hoods, etc,... that type of fabrication was pretty common in that era to strengthen parts, at least regarding those vehicles anyway.
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #214 on: February 12, 2016, 12:04:38 AM »

Les,.....Is this the strip of metal to which you were referring? Would you have some more images of that piece?
This is a pic of the aluminum trim piece.  It is being held up against the undercarriage trim of a Lockheed 12. We did measure the trim on the Lockheed 10's at Phoenix and Windsor Locks. They have  the same dimensions as the Lockheed 12 trim shown in the photograph.   
By dimensions, is that the guage of the bead edge and thickness of the flat material, compared to the Lockheed 10 and 12? It looks as if the entire length of the piece was tin snipped away from the parent object, this to give the salvager a flat stock to work with?, or?? Odd.
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #215 on: February 12, 2016, 12:33:36 AM »

In this Purdue Photo http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/earhart/id/341/rec/34( courtesy credited to them) ..it appears to me that one edge is rolled ( green arrow) and the edge on the fender ( red arrow) is round trim riveted on to flat stock...two differing methods ( if my eyes are seeing right). If the piece you have is without rivet holes, I see the need to search for non riveted rolled edges, to try to find a matching area for your artifact. Looking at the item you have, I don't know that it could be called trim, rather it looks to be the rolled edge removed from a larger panel.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #216 on: February 12, 2016, 04:37:36 AM »

Monty, I deal with a lot of vintage autos and motorcycles from the 30's and many of them have rolled edges on the fenders/hoods, etc,... that type of fabrication was pretty common in that era to strengthen parts, at least regarding those vehicles anyway.

That's my point, Jerry - rolling the edge of a sheetmetal surface to give it a finished edge, or additional strength, was quite common in the 1930s, and is today, which to me makes the piece of metal in question more common and less unique than some might hope.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Leslie G Kinney

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #217 on: February 12, 2016, 01:12:24 PM »

Les,.....Is this the strip of metal to which you were referring? Would you have some more images of that piece?
This is a pic of the aluminum trim piece.  It is being held up against the undercarriage trim of a Lockheed 12. We did measure the trim on the Lockheed 10's at Phoenix and Windsor Locks. They have  the same dimensions as the Lockheed 12 trim shown in the photograph.   
By dimensions, is that the guage of the bead edge and thickness of the flat material, compared to the Lockheed 10 and 12? It looks as if the entire length of the piece was tin snipped away from the parent object, this to give the salvager a flat stock to work with?, or?? Odd.

No tin. The analysis came back as 1100 series aluminum (almost pure). By dimensions, we mean the diameter of the somewhat rounded trim.  It was measured using a micrometer against the three Lockheed aircraft previously mentioned. As you probably know, this type aluminum is malleable and therefore easily worked.

That hole you are referring to does not appear to be is not a rivet hole - its been checked and double checked. This artifact shows evidence of extreme stress.  it was found about 16 inches below the surface. It might have been dragged along the ground until it ripped off the aircraft. Unfortunately, it was probably punctured by the hand pick during retrieval. The soil in that area is a mixture of dirt made up of sand, decomposed vegetable matter, (mainly decayed roots and leaves) but primarily crushed coral. 

We realize there will be doubters and rightly so. It's impossible to confirm this artifact came off of Earhart's Electra. In a court of law, even if Nuclear Activation Analysis was used to compare the trim piece with a known Lockheed 10 sample (which we are doing) and the results came back with almost identical properties, that's not good enough for a conviction. The best we can expect is consistency with like material tested from a Lockheed 10. But I would be quite satisfied with those results.
 
Your critical analysis and comments are appreciated.     
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Leslie G Kinney

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #218 on: February 12, 2016, 01:15:20 PM »

In this Purdue Photo http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/earhart/id/341/rec/34( courtesy credited to them) ..it appears to me that one edge is rolled ( green arrow) and the edge on the fender ( red arrow) is round trim riveted on to flat stock...two differing methods ( if my eyes are seeing right). If the piece you have is without rivet holes, I see the need to search for non riveted rolled edges, to try to find a matching area for your artifact. Looking at the item you have, I don't know that it could be called trim, rather it looks to be the rolled edge removed from a larger panel.

The area of the aircraft from which the picture was taken is closer to the green line you drew.  It did not come from the fender.
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Leslie G Kinney

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #219 on: February 12, 2016, 02:43:23 PM »

Monty, I deal with a lot of vintage autos and motorcycles from the 30's and many of them have rolled edges on the fenders/hoods, etc,... that type of fabrication was pretty common in that era to strengthen parts, at least regarding those vehicles anyway.
That's my point, Jerry - rolling the edge of a sheetmetal surface to give it a finished edge, or additional strength, was quite common in the 1930s, and is today, which to me makes the piece of metal in question more common and less unique than some might hope.

Your point is well taken. This rolled edge was most common in the manufacturing process in the 1930's.  We have seen evidence of it in the 40 thru the 50's but not as much. With that said, we have not found an identical trim piece with the same rolled measurements that fit this location for any other aircraft as yet. If you know of any, I would like to be notified. 



« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 04:11:32 PM by Leslie G Kinney »
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #220 on: February 12, 2016, 04:58:24 PM »

The Nuclear Activation Analysis sounds promising, within the limits of that technology.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #221 on: February 15, 2016, 10:31:01 AM »

The best we can expect is consistency with like material tested from a Lockheed 10. But I would be quite satisfied with those results.

You might be satisfied. All well and good. But as TIGHAR has learned in the court of world opinion, that counts for very, very little. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, as the saying goes.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #222 on: March 04, 2016, 02:18:15 PM »

Interesting comment from Mike Campbell's website, dated Feb. 9, 2016, in reply to a comment someone posted in his Irene Bolam and the Decline of the Amelia Earhart Society: Conclusion posting - "The artifacts have been tested, but because they have no serial numbers, absolute connection to the Electra cannot be proven. So Dick Spink has chosen not to make any more noise about it, nor will I until something more substantial breaks. This doesn’t mean they weren’t from the Earhart bird, and I would bet they are. But you haven’t heard the last from him."

Sounds like Mr. Spink is in the same boat at TIGHAR regarding various bits of aluminum. Technology can only take you so far in the search for the truth.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #223 on: March 04, 2016, 02:25:41 PM »

Sounds like Mr. Spink is in the same boat at TIGHAR regarding various bits of aluminum.

Perhaps with regard to bits of aluminum but in terms of total evidence TIGHAR's boat is a battleship.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #224 on: February 14, 2017, 07:12:13 AM »

I have a request from a guy who wants to do a series of podcasts about the Earhart mystery.  He wants to do interviews with proponents of all of the various theories.  I'm happy to talk to him.  He's having trouble finding contact information for Dick Spink (of dust cover fame) and has asked me for help. Anybody got an email address or phone number for Spink?  Thanks.
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