Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7   Go Down

Author Topic: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?  (Read 86416 times)

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2995
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2010, 02:28:05 PM »

Are there any plans to extensively map and raid crab burrows?

"Rolling Thunder" (the game plan for the Seven Site on Niku VI) did some exploratory work on crab burrows.  They also collected more information from the taphonomy experiment.

We'll get more news from TIGHAR Tracks and the team, I think, in the coming weeks.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
Logged

Chris Johnson

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Trying to give a fig but would settle for $100,000
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2010, 02:49:47 PM »

The crab burrow thing seemed hair raising from the posts via Ric on the expedition.  There's no way that i'd want to stick my hand down a crab burrow unless i knew the owner was off visiting freinds and neigbours.
Logged

Mark Petersen

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2010, 03:50:46 PM »

The crab burrow thing seemed hair raising from the posts via Ric on the expedition.  There's no way that i'd want to stick my hand down a crab burrow unless i knew the owner was off visiting freinds and neigbours.

A finger or two seems like such a small price to pay to advance history.....  (so long as it's someone else's hand :)  )   

Seriously though, it would be interesting to see why Coconut crabs are interested in the small bones.  Perhaps they grind up and consume the calcium which helps to develop their exoskeleton.  If there are coconut crabs in a zoo, it seems like experiments that would help to answer these questions could be constructed and information gleaned without having to travel to Niku.
Logged

Alan Williams

  • inactive
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2010, 04:29:11 PM »


Tom King made a nice list of reasons for thinking TIGHAR has found the castaway's last camp.  That was before Niku VI, so the list may be longer now.


Marty, I've seen several Youtube videos clips which together represent about a twenty minute interview with Dr. Tom King. It appears to have been filmed while working on Niku and Dr. King is speaking about the search and likelyhood of finding more evidence. In the interview, Dr. King seems to say or imply a couple of times something to the effect of not being surprised if the plane is ultimately found elsewhere. As far as I recall, I casually noted the interview seemed to have been filmed about ten or twelve years ago. Question: Any idea of whether I had read Dr. King correctly? As far as you're aware was he initially a bit of a skeptic even while actively conducting work on the island? (What good scientist isn't a skeptic?) Would you guess that finds that have been made in the past few years have gone most of the way toward convincing him of the likely probability of the Niku hypothesis? Also, finally, any thoughts about Dr. King's fictional book about the lost flight? Does it simply lay-out "fictionally" what is presumed by educated guesses to have happened? Any thoughts appreciated, just wondering. Thanks!
Logged

Bill Lloyd

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2010, 08:34:17 PM »


Tom King made a nice list of reasons for thinking TIGHAR has found the castaway's last camp.  That was before Niku VI, so the list may be longer now.


Marty, I've seen several Youtube videos clips which together represent about a twenty minute interview with Dr. Tom King. It appears to have been filmed while working on Niku and Dr. King is speaking about the search and likelyhood of finding more evidence. In the interview, Dr. King seems to say or imply a couple of times something to the effect of not being surprised if the plane is ultimately found elsewhere. As far as I recall, I casually noted the interview seemed to have been filmed about ten or twelve years ago. Question: Any idea of whether I had read Dr. King correctly? As far as you're aware was he initially a bit of a skeptic even while actively conducting work on the island? (What good scientist isn't a skeptic?) Would you guess that finds that have been made in the past few years have gone most of the way toward convincing him of the likely probability of the Niku hypothesis? Also, finally, any thoughts about Dr. King's fictional book about the lost flight? Does it simply lay-out "fictionally" what is presumed by educated guesses to have happened? Any thoughts appreciated, just wondering. Thanks!
I am not Marty, but wanted to respond. I have viewed Dr King’s videos that were made in 2001 and what I get out of it is that he thinks they are on course and at the right place looking for Earhart, but that if she were to be found on some other island or at  the bottom of the ocean, that would be fine with him. I think he was being diplomatic and saying the right things.

I have read Dr King’s writings and listened to his presentation and they are very convincing.  I get the impression that he is a very competent individual. Just my opinion.
Logged

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2995
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2010, 10:06:49 PM »

Marty, I've seen several Youtube videos clips which together represent about a twenty minute interview with Dr. Tom King. It appears to have been filmed while working on Niku and Dr. King is speaking about the search and likelyhood of finding more evidence. In the interview, Dr. King seems to say or imply a couple of times something to the effect of not being surprised if the plane is ultimately found elsewhere. As far as I recall, I casually noted the interview seemed to have been filmed about ten or twelve years ago. Question: Any idea of whether I had read Dr. King correctly?

I had the same impression as you.

Quote
As far as you're aware was he initially a bit of a skeptic even while actively conducting work on the island? (What good scientist isn't a skeptic?) Would you guess that finds that have been made in the past few years have gone most of the way toward convincing him of the likely probability of the Niku hypothesis?

Tom is like a good lawyer.  He can argue for either the prosecution or the defense.  He can see the various ways the evidence can be put together to support the Niku hypothesis or some alternative.

Quote
Also, finally, any thoughts about Dr. King's fictional book about the lost flight? Does it simply lay-out "fictionally" what is presumed by educated guesses to have happened? Any thoughts appreciated, just wondering. Thanks!

I've read Shoes twice.  It's very revealing about how Tom's mind works.  Although there are three other co-authors, Tom wrote the fictional conversation that weaves everything together and unifies the book.  I haven't read Thirteen Bones.  I would rather stick to expository prose so that I know what claims are being made seriously without having to weed out the fictional elements.  (Don't get me started on Dan Brown's novels!)

Bottom line: Tom sees how the evidence gathered so far points to Niku, but also sees that it is not a knockdown case.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
Logged

Alan Williams

  • inactive
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2010, 06:38:57 AM »

Thanks both for the thoughtful replies. Yes, sounds like you both really nailed it, sounds like Dr. King is the consummate professional, diplomatic and able to see different angles as if like a lawyer while still pursuing the best known hypothesis. Watching the interview with him I thought in whatever I was doing, "I'd want that guy on my team".

Sounds like "Shoes" is the book I'll want to read next. I've read Ric's book twice now, and actually read the more "human story" parts like "Betty's Notebook" more than that. I actually read the whole chapter "Betty's Notebook" out loud to my wife while on a camping trip and she was really caught up in it. Although I understand that in his book Ric was being strictly historically accurate and only presenting historically documented facts, I was thinking I'd really enjoy it if Ric wrote an addendum with couple more chapters giving his non-confirmed "ideas" of what might have transpired on Niku. So, would you say that "Shoes" presents the evidence for Niku with a bit more focus on the human storyline and with a bit more freedom in presumptions that should logically follow what is believed to be true? Sounds right?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 06:43:56 AM by Alan Williams »
Logged

Kevin Weeks

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2010, 07:02:31 AM »

Thanks both for the thoughtful replies. Yes, sounds like you both really nailed it, sounds like Dr. King is the consummate professional, diplomatic and able to see different angles as if like a lawyer while still pursuing the best known hypothesis. Watching the interview with him I thought in whatever I was doing, "I'd want that guy on my team".

Sounds like "Shoes" is the book I'll want to read next. I've read Ric's book twice now, and actually read the more "human story" parts like "Betty's Notebook" more than that. I actually read the whole chapter "Betty's Notebook" out loud to my wife while on a camping trip and she was really caught up in it. Although I understand that in his book Ric was being strictly historically accurate and only presenting historically documented facts, I was thinking I'd really enjoy it if Ric wrote an addendum with couple more chapters giving his non-confirmed "ideas" of what might have transpired on Niku. So, would you say that "Shoes" presents the evidence for Niku with a bit more focus on the human storyline and with a bit more freedom in presumptions that should logically follow what is believed to be true? Sounds right?

alan, I know it's great fun to postulate on the could haves, but for the team leader to be postulating his own thoughts in print would make him less credible IMO. We are dealing with a historical event that is riddled with wild presumption. Ric has done his best (IMO) to not follow that trend and follow logical, scientific methods during his "investigation". dogged professionalism in the search for amelia seems to have been as rare as clues to her disappearance. Ric's method only lends more credibility to him. Let others postulate on his findings.
Logged

Alan Williams

  • inactive
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2010, 07:09:16 AM »

Kevin, Yes, you're absolutely right, of course!  Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. You know, there are several reviews for Ric's book where the reviewer had written something like, "...and finally, although the author clearly believes the flight terminated on Niku, he never clearly states such." Yep, Kevin, you're absolutely right, let Ric present the hardest facts possible and let others expand on that if they choose. Excellent point.....

...so, along these lines, we're still saying "Shoes" is another must-read?...
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 07:17:31 AM by Alan Williams »
Logged

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2995
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2010, 07:17:46 AM »

... I was thinking I'd really enjoy it if Ric wrote an addendum with couple more chapters giving his non-confirmed "ideas" of what might have transpired on Niku.

Cf. TIGHAR Tracks and the Forum highlights.

Quote
So, would you say that "Shoes" presents the evidence for Niku with a bit more focus on the human storyline and with a bit more freedom in presumptions that should logically follow what is believed to be true? Sounds right?

No.  There is a fictional superstructure (a conversation between an archaeologist and a beautiful young woman) within which the story of AE and TIGHAR is narrated.  No liberties are taken with the facts as they were understood when the book was published.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
Logged

Alan Williams

  • inactive
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2010, 07:54:15 AM »

Not to belabor the issue, just a couple more thoughts

....I guess what I'm trying to say is that it would be good if another book existed that told the story of the Niku hypothesis more casually for a less technically inclined reader. Many times I've talked about the AE/FN story and the work TIGHAR has done with my wife and together we've watched the lead video and the slide show w/audio track, and she is very interested but couldn't possibly get through Ric's book. I thoroughly appreciated Ric's book in which he often makes technical points regarding something like, for example,  the performance of shortwave radio on different frequencies at different times of the day, yet I know my wife with zero technical background couldn't get through it.

One the compelling elements in the search to unravel this mystery is how one keeps learning more. Frequently Marty will post a link to something in the TIGHAR archives that will lead to a whole new discovery for me. What if a book existed that was not fictional, but presented the Niku hypothesis, combined and synthesized the biggest/most important pieces of the puzzle, and in addition to known fact gave compelling/scientific "what if?" arguments, and did so in really good "story telling" fashion? I'm convinced it would be a huge success/top seller.
Logged

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2995
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2010, 10:49:14 AM »

... I thoroughly appreciated Ric's book in which he often makes technical points regarding something like, for example,  the performance of shortwave radio on different frequencies at different times of the day, yet I know my wife with zero technical background couldn't get through it.

So you want a book for non-technical readers.

Quote
... What if a book existed that was not fictional, but presented the Niku hypothesis, combined and synthesized the biggest/most important pieces of the puzzle, and in addition to known fact gave compelling/scientific "what if?" arguments

And a book for scientists.

Quote
... and did so in really good "story telling" fashion?

And a dramatic narrative.

Quote
I'm convinced it would be a huge success/top seller.

I personally wouldn't sign a contract to deliver that book.  I believe in miracles, but I don't think I can produce them on demand.

YMMV.   ;)
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
Logged

Alan Williams

  • inactive
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2010, 11:38:21 AM »

Hey, hey, Marty - now you know you put words in my mouth there.  :D  Nope, I was consistent and didn't say it should be a book for scientists. I simply believe there is a fascinating/captivating story to be told based upon and following from Ric's brilliant work and I'm saying the story of people like you and other TIGHAR members working ingeniously and tirelessly to unravel the mystery and the story of the Niku effort/discoveries would indeed make a riveting book for the general non-technical reader. (Speaking of which, I would enjoy reading the diaries of your investigation into the mystery of the bones in Fiji.) And, the more I've thought about it, I believe you would be the one to write it.

Just imagine the service you would be doing for the whole effort if you wrote a technically/scientifically accurate work that presented the TIGHAR Niku hypothesis in a compelling "story telling" fashion. Wouldn't such a book be not unlike a two hour television special that, again, "told the story"? And, I wouldn't say one wouldn't have to stretch to tell the story of the odyssey of the evolution and pursuit of the Niku hypothesis as a "dramatic narrative". It simply already is a dramatic narrative.

Who knows, maybe in a year or two I'll be in an airport or at a bus stop and see multiple copies of your book proudly displayed as the most popular book in the nation. Just think of the additional new TIGHAR members and additional funding that would come from such a "popular" book.   :o
Logged

Alan Williams

  • inactive
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2010, 02:10:55 PM »


Hm. ...and just imagine...  what if on the next expedition the "smoking gun" is discovered, and a book such as I've described was already written and available on the shelf? Now don't get me wrong. As I've written Ric's book is brilliant, but clearly Ric's book doesn't and wasn't intended to describe the Niku odyssey. Ric's book brilliantly sets the known historical record straight and the book I'm describing would be based on and be the follow up to Ric's book.

What if after the discovery of the "smoking gun" is realized, already on the shelf is a well written "dramatic narrative" about the ingenious/tireless detective/mystery solving work done by TIGHAR? Think about it. Every book club in the nation would pick it up, it would go to the #1 best seller, it would be a just reward for over two decades of little-known work.
Logged

Mark Petersen

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Gardner: Most compelling argument? Biggest missing piece?
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2010, 04:07:06 PM »

What if after the discovery of the "smoking gun" is realized, already on the shelf is a well written "dramatic narrative" about the ingenious/tireless detective/mystery solving work done by TIGHAR? Think about it. Every book club in the nation would pick it up, it would go to the #1 best seller, it would be a just reward for over two decades of little-known work.

I agree that the detective work done by TIGHAR is an interesting story in and of itself.  I'm getting a kick reading all of the information on ameliapedia, this forum and the TIGHAR website.  My interest in the AE story is 99% based on the lost flight and the detective work going on in trying to find the smoking gun.  In my mind this is like a CSI episode only better.  Even if a smoking gun isn't found, the detective work that has been done to date is still very interesting and it's clear that TIGHAR has greatly added to the information that we know about the disappearance.  The castaway skeleton and the new information about the post loss radio transmissions are themselves very interesting developments that we can attribute to the tireless work of TIGHAR.  The problem is that the project itself is very dynamic and new information is popping up all the time (like the Nessie photo).  So writing a book now will probably be obsolete before the smoking gun is found.  I have little doubts that a book after the smoking gun has been found would be a best seller though.

Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7   Go Up
 

Copyright 2023 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.18 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines Powered by PHP