2-2-V-1 - patch?

[JNev]

Damn...

Somehow the Herald photo file sounds about as battered and cast to the sands as 2-2-V-1 itself was...

Sounds like little to no chance of retrieval unless 'Rogers Archive' has something.  At least if Miami finds a good example of a view that might pay off we'd know what to ask for, perhaps?

[Greg Daspit]

John Ousterhout posted a link to this partial picture from the Purdue Archives earlier. I can see rivets in the older skin. It may be the more reflective skin is washing out the rivets on the patch but this may be a good image to look more closely at.

"Why can't they just say, 'go to this place, here's the treasure, spend it wisely'?"

[Mark Appel]

It seems a quote from that great pooh-bear of letters is in order,

"Oh, bother!"

[Bill Mangus]

The Rogers Archive has a website:

http://www.therogersarchive.com/

but no search function.

[Greg Daspit]

Why is the edge opposite the tab so straight?  It's like something may have helped direct it like tearing paper on the edge of a table. 
Why is the next row of rivets closer to that edge than the distance between other rows?
How are the stringers attached to the former? What size and shape is the former?

[Ric Gillespie]

Quote from: Greg Daspit on Today at 04:24:41 PM
Why is the edge opposite the tab so straight?  It's like something may have helped direct it like tearing paper on the edge of a table.

To me, that's the most puzzling edge.  Here's a photo looking along the "top" edge. You can see the surviving rivet head in the lower left foreground.  Is this a "tear" or a something else.  I think we need a forensic metallurgist.

Quote from: Greg Daspit on Today at 04:24:41 PM

Why is the next row of rivets closer to that edge than the distance between other rows?
How are the stringers attached to the former? What size and shape is the former?

Good questions.  No answers.

[Monty Fowler]

I think we need a forensic metallurgist.

Sign me up for a piece of that, when the time comes.

LTM, who finds the lack of dry paint rewarding,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP

[Ric Gillespie]

I've been re-reading the various accounts of AE's eight-day stay in Miami (she arrived May 23 and departed June 1) looking for some clue as to when, why, and by whom the patch was made. "Last Flight" isn't much help.  There's a chapter on "Miami" but AE didn't write it.  In the book, GP explains, "In the days that followed [AE's arrival in Miami], AE had no time to write. 'We'll catch up on that later," she said.  I want to do a careful account of this final job of getting ready for a long flight.  It's really colorful and I think could be made interesting even for non-flyers.'  The opportunity to 'catch up' never came."
Instead, GP uses excerpts of an article written at the time by Herald Tribune reporter C.B. Allen.  Allen's story is a puff-piece that talks mostly about what a wonderful person Amelia is and how she won over the mechanics who initially dismissed her as merely "a woman pilot bent on a 'stunt' flight."
Maybe the biographies will be more useful if the sources are they're properly cited.  I know there were serious radio issues addressed by Pan Am that never got fully resolved.

[Ric Gillespie]

No response yet from the Rogers Archive that bought the Miami Herald photos, but the newspaper's editorial staff has gotten excited about the prospect of a Miami Herald photo possibly being a key piece of evidence in TIGHAR's quest to solve the Earhart mystery.  I'm now working with a Miami Herald reporter who is writing a story about the photo, The Earhart Project, 2-2-V-1 and the patch that was installed in Miami.  A photographer is coming here later today to shoot photos of the artifact. The story will run some time next week.

The paper's librarian has searched through the digital scans of the photos and found the shot we're looking for.  It appears to be of slightly better resolution than the print we have, so that's good.  The reporter also sent me two other shots that were in the same collection.  One shows the airplane in flight, just after take off, gear just coming up.  The plane is going left to right so we're seeing the right-hand side of the fuselage.  The focus isn't perfect but you can clearly see the patch.  The other photo is a real find.  It's a "selfy" showing AE and an unidentified woman standing in front of the airplane just behind the right wing.  At the left hand side of the frame is the window that was later replaced with a patch. About half of the window is visible but the detail is fantastic. This is, by far, the best photos I've seen of exactly how the window was mounted.  AE is wearing the polkadot shirt she is wearing in other Miami photos so we know this picture was taken in Miami. 
I would post the photos here except I don't yet know what restrictions there are on publication.  The reporter is checking on that.

[JNev]

That is all very good news, Ric, thanks for sharing it.  Glad to hear Miami Herald doing all can and giving some great publicity to boot.

[Randy Conrad]

In reference to the patch...and the link to Lockheed Martin the beginning...at mark 14.54 it shows laborers moving sheets of aircraft sheet metal into the factory and then cutting them to size. What I'd like to know is if we took this "patch" measured it, and then broke that size out into halves or quarters...would it add up to a full sheet of metal. Be interesting to know what the actual size of the full sheets would be. Anyone know Ric?

[Ric Gillespie]

In reference to the patch...and the link to Lockheed Martin the beginning...at mark 14.54 it shows laborers moving sheets of aircraft sheet metal into the factory and then cutting them to size. What I'd like to know is if we took this "patch" measured it, and then broke that size out into halves or quarters...would it add up to a full sheet of metal. Be interesting to know what the actual size of the full sheets would be. Anyone know Ric?

Remember, the patch has nothing to do with Lockheed. It was fabricated in Miami, almost certainly by PanAm mechanics.
BTW, Lockheed Martin is the modern company, a merger of the old Martin company and Lockheed Aircraft Corp.

[Randy Conrad]

So do we know if the metal used in Miami was also supplied to make the Electra in Burbank, California. Just curious!!!!

[Ric Gillespie]

So do we know if the metal used in Miami was also supplied to make the Electra in Burbank, California. Just curious!!!!

At this time we have no information about where the aluminum used to make the patch came from except that it had to have been made by ALCOA.  My best guess is that it came from a stock of aluminum PanAm had on hand for making repairs to its flying boats.

[JNev]

In reference to the patch...and the link to Lockheed Martin the beginning...at mark 14.54 it shows laborers moving sheets of aircraft sheet metal into the factory and then cutting them to size. What I'd like to know is if we took this "patch" measured it, and then broke that size out into halves or quarters...would it add up to a full sheet of metal. Be interesting to know what the actual size of the full sheets would be. Anyone know Ric?

Not sure I follow where you're going with this, Randy, maybe missing your point.  2-2-V-1, whatever it was or where ever it came from, was simply cut from a larger piece of metal somewhere. 

If memory serves, those rolls or sheets of stock are about 4 feet wide - maybe wider in some cases, and can be rather long.  Small shops order smaller quantities cut from large stock, whereas a shop like Lockheed or PanAm might easily have full sheets or rolls in inventory to take something like 2-2-V-1 from.  Typically the larger stock would be sheared to the desired size.