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Author Topic: 2-2-V-1 - patch?  (Read 1126346 times)

Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #360 on: August 01, 2014, 09:06:42 AM »

I'd bet that took about 80 turns on that handle... ouch.

Digging further, it was so common to have to use the crank that it was not considered an emergency.  If you were going 140 mph or more when you lowered the gear the electric motor couldn't get it down far enough to lock.  To get "two green" you had to give it about half a turn with the crank.  On the other hand, if lowered  below 120 mph the gear thunks down against the stops "unduly hard."
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JNev

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #361 on: August 01, 2014, 10:42:31 AM »

That explains a lot - and makes me appreciate all the more the refinement that goes into our aero-machines today: the L10 was kind of a farm tractor compared to what we now fly.
- Jeff Neville

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Greg Daspit

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #362 on: August 01, 2014, 10:43:02 AM »

Will Jeff Glickman’s report on what he has been able to discern in images of the patch be a different report from the analysis of the hyperspectral imaging of 2-2-V-1?
Since Jeff has been able to discern rivet lines, is that enough to tell us at this point, if 2-2-V-1 has been eliminated as a possible match to the patch or not? 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #363 on: August 01, 2014, 10:58:42 AM »

Will Jeff Glickman’s report on what he has been able to discern in images of the patch be a different report from the analysis of the hyperspectral imaging of 2-2-V-1?

I expect that Jeff will write a single report that encompasses everything he has been able to discern.

Since Jeff has been able to discern rivet lines, is that enough to tell us at this point, if 2-2-V-1 has been eliminated as a possible match to the patch or not?

We've already eliminated 2-2-V-1 as part of standard Electra construction and also as part of documented repairs done by Lockheed.  The patch appears to be the artifact's "last stand" as a part of the Earhart puzzle.  So far, so good. He can discern rivet lines but matching them to the rivet lines on 2-2-V-1 requires precise scaling of the images.  That's what he's working on now. If the work Jeff has done so far had found something that eliminated the patch as a possible origin we wouldn't be spending $1,650 to do hyperspectral imaging.
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Joy Diane Forster

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #364 on: August 01, 2014, 11:05:38 AM »

Excellent article in today's online Philadephia Enquirer
The story will run in the printed newspaper tomorrow.

I really hope some of the other papers pick this up....   Nice article that makes a good case for donations!
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Randy Conrad

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #365 on: August 01, 2014, 05:01:52 PM »

Ric and Jeff...several days ago someone made the comment that they were trying to figure out if Fred may have been in the cockpit or in the rear of the plane. My question to the panel of expertise in regards to emergency landing gear cranking system is...could Amelia crank the landing gear down by herself while flying the plane or is this the job of a co-pilot? Let me know...thanks!
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #366 on: August 01, 2014, 05:20:53 PM »

could Amelia crank the landing gear down by herself while flying the plane or is this the job of a co-pilot?

The pilot could do it and the co-pilot could also do it - but there is no indication that anybody did it.
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Gary Vance

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #367 on: August 05, 2014, 08:40:22 AM »

Long time lurker, first time poster...

I was in Tucson Arizona last week and went to the Pima Air and Space museum. If you love aircraft this is the place to go. You also get to tour the Davis-Monthan AFB Boneyard.  A must do if in the area. One of their aircraft is an Electra Model 10 in pristine shape.  The attached picture shows the unpatched side of the plane.  I was hoping to get a super close look and see if there was any areas on this plane that would have matched the patch. The folks there were very interested in the Earhardt story and may be available as a resource, or may even allow a hands-on inspection if we need to look at another example of a Model 10.  Here are the specs from the website:

 http://www.pimaair.org/visit/aircraft-by-name/item/lockheed-model-10-electra




Manufacturer
LOCKHEED
Markings:
Northwest Airlines, 1936
Designation:
MODEL 10
Registration:
N4963C
Serial Number:
42-56638
LOCKHEED MODEL 10 ELECTRA
The Model 10 Electra was Lockheed's entry into the mid 1930s airliner market. Appearing almost simultaneously with the Boeing 249 and Douglas DC-2 the Electra is slightly smaller than its competitors, but it matched the speed of the DC-2. The Model 10 has the distinction of being the first aircraft on which Lockheed's famous designer Kelly Johnson worked. First flown in 1934 the Electra entered service first with Northwest Airlines and served successfully with many domestic and foreign airlines. Approximately 20 Electras were acquired by the U.S. Army Air Forces during World War II from their civil owners and were used as personnel transports in the United States. After the war the Electras passed from major airlines into small regional and non-scheduled airlines and into use as personal and business aircraft. The Electra is probably best known as the aircraft in which Amelia Earhart vanished during her attempted around-the-world flight in 1937.
Specifications

    Wingspan: 55 ft
    Length: 38 ft 7 in
    Height: 10 ft 1 in
    Weight: 10,300 lbs (loaded)
    Max. Speed: 202 mph
    Service Ceiling: 19,400 ft
    Range: 810 miles
    Engines: 2 Pratt & Whitney R-985 Wasp Jr. SB, 450 horsepower each
    Crew: 2, 10 passengers

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #368 on: August 05, 2014, 08:59:48 AM »

I was in Tucson Arizona last week and went to the Pima Air and Space museum. If you love aircraft this is the place to go. You also get to tour the Davis-Monthan AFB Boneyard.  A must do if in the area. One of their aircraft is an Electra Model 10 in pristine shape.

Great museum.  Glad you got to see it. We're well familiar with Pima's Electra.  C/N 1011 is the oldest surviving intact Model 10 (the eleventh one built). It's nice to see that they have brought it indoors.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #369 on: August 26, 2014, 01:50:33 PM »

Latest results:

The attached photos show 2-2-V-1 (and my hands) overlaid on the patch in the Miami taxi photo to the correct scale.  As you can see, three of the five rivet lines (1,3 & 5) align with standard rivet lines and stringers on the airplane.  Line 5 is a double staggered row both on the artifact and the airplane. Jeff sees indications, but can't yet be sure, that there are rivet lines on the patch at lines 2 and 4.  There is no indication of a vertical line of rivets on the patch except, of course, at the fore and aft edges.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 01:52:55 PM by Ric Gillespie »
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Monty Fowler

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #370 on: August 26, 2014, 06:03:32 PM »

Of course, TIGHAR's vast legion of detractors will insist that either:

1) 2-V-1-1 doesn't fit the putative patch hole to millimetric tolerances measured down to 8 decimal points;

2) The artifact has been deliberately manipulated to try to cram a square patch into a round hole;

or 3) TIGHAR has made the whole thing up and faked it from the word Go, all the way back to 1989.

My money has been, and remains, on TIGHAR.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #371 on: August 26, 2014, 06:13:00 PM »

When Monty says,

My money has been, and remains on TIGHAR.

It's not a figure of speech.
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JNev

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #372 on: August 27, 2014, 05:55:08 AM »

We seem to inch closer with this analysis - I believe this is the best shot at finding a 'key' that we're going to have for 2-2-V-1.
- Jeff Neville

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #373 on: August 27, 2014, 06:58:52 AM »

Consider the "Null Hypothesis."  We know the artifact does not fit anywhere else on the Electra.  If the artifact is not the Miami Patch it is a random piece of airplane wreckage from some unknown wreck of an aircraft type we have not been able to identify, that just happened to wash up on this island and just happens to have all the characteristics that make us suspect it is the Miami Patch.
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Paul March

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #374 on: August 27, 2014, 09:07:39 AM »

Curious as to what additional data TIGHAR needs/hopes to see from 2-2-V-1 to reach the conclusion that the artifact did indeed (or at least has the highest percentage of probability) come from the Electra.
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