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Author Topic: Malaysian Flight 370  (Read 308397 times)

manjeet aujla

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2014, 10:10:59 PM »

Well, the Inmarsat sats will have had 5-6 readings before the 8:11am one, and those are prolly known (hopefully) by the Malaysians.  Those are one of the strongest known 'facts' that can be relied on. So the maldives sighting seemingly does not sound credible as it does not plot on the last Inmarsat semi-circle.

Another ex-777 pilot is quoted as saying that if the pilot took it to the south, and plunged into the ocean at 6-700 knots, the plane pieces will be the size of postage stamps.

The malaysians are being idiots by not formally asking the US for help.
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2014, 10:34:27 PM »

Why steal a dinky 777 when Iran already has big 747's, as well as  (Tupolev's and Airbuses?  If Iran wanted to fill an airliner with explosives and fly it into Israel, they've already got some.
Good point
I don't think the plane could make it there to begin with, and it doesn't make sense for any state doing this to have the plane fly to their own country and implicate themselves. Especially on a course over so much land of other countries with radar and a billion people
I'm starting to think something affected the crew's mental abilities. Dry cell batteries burning may cause mental ability problems and possibly a later fire, crossover short circuits or electrical cascade failures
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« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 10:56:21 PM by Greg Daspit »
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Brad Mackey

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2014, 10:52:44 PM »

After reading many articles on this disappearance I can't help but think about how the easy answer that the 777 crashed in the deep part of the ocean was the popular answer by many.  It makes you think about what the first theories were in the A.E. disappearance and the public reaction to those theories.
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #63 on: March 19, 2014, 12:44:33 AM »

Why steal a dinky 777 when Iran already has big 747's, as well as  (Tupolev's and Airbuses?  If Iran wanted to fill an airliner with explosives and fly it into Israel, they've already got some.


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Tim Gard

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #64 on: March 19, 2014, 02:23:31 AM »

After reading many articles on this disappearance I can't help but think about how the easy answer that the 777 crashed in the deep part of the ocean was the popular answer by many.  It makes you think about what the first theories were in the A.E. disappearance and the public reaction to those theories.

Might they be that the radio messages continuously emerging from the Phoenix Islands group in an area near Gardner Island should be investigated as a priority as reflected by the newspaper headlines of the week of Jul 2nd 1937?



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Ken Nielsen

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #65 on: March 19, 2014, 04:31:02 AM »

With or without Iranian involvement, the human cargo carried by the plane would probably be of greater value than the plane itself. A large number of Chinese nationals and some Americans thrown in would provide Uighur separatists and other Muslim militants with hostages for extortion and graphic online videos for a long time.
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #66 on: March 19, 2014, 04:53:46 AM »

And the 227 passengers, are they temporarily or permanently incapacitated? No communication from them at all via their mobile phones.
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Kevin Weeks

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2014, 05:46:50 AM »

And the 227 passengers, are they temporarily or permanently incapacitated? No communication from them at all via their mobile phones.

this and the plane's navigation systems got me thinking. Your phone can be tracked via gps as long as it is on. if the pilots were using their planes navigation systems would that not also have a similar GPS link?
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2014, 06:15:11 AM »

The point I was trying to make Kevin was that someone/persons went to a lot of trouble to shut down all of the systems that could track the plane but, as you mention, the passengers mobile phones? Did the someone/persons go to the rear of the plane to collect/force passengers to switch off all mobile phones? Do that while flying the plane at the same time, on your own? Would the passengers not be a little suspicious?
A very strange disappearance indeed.
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JNev

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2014, 06:28:05 AM »

Why steal a dinky 777 when Iran already has big 747's, as well as  (Tupolev's and Airbuses?  If Iran wanted to fill an airliner with explosives and fly it into Israel, they've already got some.

Deniability.

As to 'dinky', the triple seven starts at 660,000 pounds and variants go as high as 775,000 pounds - into A-340 and 747 territory.  It is also rated for up to 440 passengers (a function of emergency exit capabilities, not practicality).  Far from 'dinky', it's an impressively large beast, no question about it.
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« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 06:34:59 AM by Jeffrey Neville »
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JNev

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #70 on: March 19, 2014, 06:38:01 AM »

With or without Iranian involvement, the human cargo carried by the plane would probably be of greater value than the plane itself. A large number of Chinese nationals and some Americans thrown in would provide Uighur separatists and other Muslim militants with hostages for extortion and graphic online videos for a long time.

20 of those passengers were high-tech types from one peculiar company, not without value.
- Jeff Neville

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JNev

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2014, 06:49:05 AM »

And the 227 passengers, are they temporarily or permanently incapacitated? No communication from them at all via their mobile phones.

this and the plane's navigation systems got me thinking. Your phone can be tracked via gps as long as it is on. if the pilots were using their planes navigation systems would that not also have a similar GPS link?

Remember the excursion to high altitude.  There's a problem with cabin exposure to altitudes above 40K feet for any length of time - incapacitation usually followed by death unless immediate support.  This is a huge certification barrier that typically limits ceilings because emergency decent modes have to accounted for as part of recovery.  At least one flight crew member (pilot) is supposed to pull oxygen all the time above 40K for this reason, to offset in case of such an event.

Point being, not a huge deal to depressurize tha cattle car and put a bunch of people to sleep, for good if some fiend really wanted to do it... even if they did get masks on after teh event they aren't likely to recover well unless the cabin altitude drops rapidly to something around 20K or lower.  Has to do with blood / oxygen saturation and recovery time / gas pressures above 40K and what they do to the human being.  But a pilot pulling oxygen the whole time will probably do fine.

And with any luck, all the phones were very compliantly put into 'airplane mode' or turned off before take-off...
- Jeff Neville

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Steve Lee

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2014, 07:08:47 AM »

All the news sources citing expert and professional analysis I've read through say the return signal from the plane only lies somewhere on those red lines, not the entire circle representing the 40 degree inclination from the satellite.  I'm sure there is an uncertainty factor, maybe 5 degrees, maybe less, but there is no mention of this tolerance.

I'm curious how they narrowed down the signal to only those two red segments of the circle.
It is my understanding the line was determined by how long the signal took to travel, and they determined the distance the signal could cover in that time and calculated the circle that the distance crossed the earth. The satellite wasn't intended to locate the plane or any angle of the plane.
They eliminated the west half of the circle because it was out of range and part of the center of the east side of the circle because it was covered by radar.

Does crossing that line at the time it did still give the plane enough fuel to reach Iran?
The line on the map posted stops before it gets to Iran and they said the west half of the circle is out of range. I think the "range" is by time. In other words it couldn't get there in that time but does it still have enough fuel to reach Iran if it crosses that line at that time?

If I understand it the INMARSAT pings were hourly but we've only seen the arc for the final ping at 8:11. If there is similar data for previous pings, that data would provide valuable clues about the course of the plane. So, has it been stated that there is no previous satellite ping data for the plane, or is this data being withheld for some reason?

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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2014, 08:06:15 AM »

Good point about the trip up to 40,000 ft + and the possible attempt to render the passengers
Unconscious, permanently or temporarily Jeff. That would explain why the 35+ business class satellite phones were not used to report the strange/missing flight path displayed on the in-flight tracking mode on the passengers screens. I think it was mentioned in the show that Ric appeared in regarding the handling characteristics of the plane at such an extreme altitude at that all up weight, plus or minus 10 Knots was mentioned being the difference of being in control or in a lot of trouble.



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Kevin Weeks

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #74 on: March 19, 2014, 08:13:09 AM »

Good point about the trip up to 40,000 ft + and the possible attempt to render the passengers
Unconscious, permanently or temporarily Jeff. That would explain why the 35+ business class satellite phones were not used to report the strange/missing flight path displayed on the in-flight tracking mode on the passengers screens. I think it was mentioned in the show that Ric appeared in regarding the handling characteristics of the plane at such an extreme altitude at that all up weight, plus or minus 10 Knots was mentioned being the difference of being in control or in a lot of trouble.

I can imagine it would be. the U2 spy plane had a very marginal difference between it's cruise speed and stall speed when at altitude.
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