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Author Topic: The Question of 2-2-V-1  (Read 1023706 times)

Jerry Germann

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #360 on: February 28, 2014, 04:43:33 PM »

Has the best belly photo post Luke Field repairs been studied by Jeff Glickman ( somewhat in the same way as the Bevington object) ? As regards the overlap at the keel, Greg and I discussed this somewhat , but, could you once again post the best belly photo post Luke Field repairs....I am still unable to determine  keel lap of earhart's electra...the photo I recently viewed of earhart sitting in the nose of the Electra looks as if the lap would be starboard over port ....if this pattern continued down the length of the keel the whole of the plane , our (Port over starboard) diagram and understanding of the panel seperation may be changed...
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #361 on: February 28, 2014, 06:36:39 PM »

could you once again post the best belly photo post Luke Field repairs....

I'm not aware of a "belly photo" either pre or post the repairs.
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #362 on: February 28, 2014, 07:25:31 PM »

It's too bad that the second photo in a certain blog by someone named Nate Maas, captioned "Noonan and Earhart boarding their Lockheed Electra in Puerto Rico", which shows a lot of the belly of NR16020, lacks the clarity to see the necessary detail.
LTM,

Bruce
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Greg Daspit

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #363 on: February 28, 2014, 07:58:46 PM »

This photo in the purdue archives shows something odd under it but I'm not sure exactly where it is. The photo is taken from the opposite side but something seems to be protruding from the skin close to that area maybe a little rear of the suspected location?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #364 on: February 28, 2014, 08:03:09 PM »

This photo in the purdue archives shows something odd under it but I'm not sure exactly where it is. The photo is taken from the opposite side but something seems to be protruding from the skin close to that area maybe a little rear of the suspected location?

I see what you mean, but that photo was taken at Burbank in early March before the first world flight attempt, so it was before the wreck and the repairs.
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Greg Daspit

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #365 on: February 28, 2014, 08:15:13 PM »

This photo in the purdue archives shows something odd under it but I'm not sure exactly where it is. The photo is taken from the opposite side but something seems to be protruding from the skin close to that area maybe a little rear of the suspected location?

I see what you mean, but that photo was taken at Burbank in early March before the first world flight attempt, so it was before the wreck and the repairs.
I wonder if that could have something to do with repair order #9? Something that was damaged later and thought to be a 3rd mast
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Karen Hoy

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #366 on: February 28, 2014, 08:30:58 PM »

Hotels near Dayton International Airport


http://www.airporthotelguide.com/dayton/airporthotels.html

Karen Hoy
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Walter Runck

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #367 on: February 28, 2014, 09:15:46 PM »



Somebody must have misread something.  We should be able to identify #3 brazier rivets on aircraft by examining the shape of the head and measuring its diameter.

 

I agree, but I think it was whoever put those rivets in the bag.  Every commercial and military spec I can find shows the heads of a #3 brazier and #4 modified brazier to be virtually identical.  There's only a couple thou variability in the acceptable size ranges and you can't see that kind of difference by eye.  Relatively speaking, there's more difference between your right and left thumbnails than those specs.  I doubt even fabbing up some profile gauges would help.
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #368 on: February 28, 2014, 09:26:21 PM »

This may or may not be of some use but, in wondering how a sheet of aircraft skin ended up on the Western? shore of the island from theoretically some? depth off of the reef. I was reading up on the Gilbert islands when I came across this article from the WHOI.

"At the equator, trade winds push a surface current from east to west. About 100 to 200 meters below, a swift countercurrent develops, flowing in the opposite direction. This, the Equatorial Undercurrent (EUC), is cooler and rich in nutrients. When it hits an island, like a rock in a river, water is deflected upward on the island's western flank and around the islands. This well-known upwelling process brings cooler water and nutrients to the sunlit surface, creating localized areas where tiny marine plants and corals flourish."

https://www.whoi.edu/main/news-releases?tid=3622&cid=135429

This must be the place
 
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Mark Pearce

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #369 on: February 28, 2014, 11:14:26 PM »

Here is evidence of 3/32" rivets being used in the B-17.

"Loda woman awaits B-17 visit, talks about time in factory"
07/07/2008

LODA – The upcoming visit of a B-17 aircraft to Willard Airport on July 11-13 has sparked memories for Loda resident Caroline Helregel.... Some reports say that women were even better at rivet work than men and perhaps that had something to do with the size of the rivets.  "Those rivets were so small, you can't believe it," she said. "We did the plates that held the wing flaps (on the B-17) with little bitty (3/32-inch) rivets..."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_rrHMxcZ7dwJ:www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2008-07-07/loda-woman-awaits-b-17-visit-talks-about-time-factory.html+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
----------------------------------

"Design Analysis of the Boeing B-17G Flying Fortress"
http://legendsintheirowntime.com/B17/B17_articles/B17_IA_4412_DA.html

"...This design analysis article was originally published in the December, 1944, issue of Industrial Aviation magazine,"

"...Over this basic truss structure is a layer of 24ST clad or 24SRT clad corrugated sheet which ranges in thickness from .064 gauge inboard to .016 gauge outboard, in turn covered with 24ST clad skin varying in gauge from .016 to .040. Attached to the structure with skin-type aluminum alloy rivets ranging in diameter from 3/32" to ¼", this corrugation, with the stressed skin, carries two-thirds of the wing loads and is laid with the corrugations running spanwise of the wing."

Much more on the B-17 here-
http://legendsintheirowntime.com/B17/B17_articles/B17_articles_index.html

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Doug Ledlie

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #370 on: March 01, 2014, 08:02:40 AM »

A thousand pardons if already discussed but forum search didn't find anything...wondering about possible sources for correct vintage aircraft parts in the broad vicinity other than "crash" wreckage....meaning suppose there was a plane that was battle (or otherwise) damaged but makes it back to base or nearest available base, makes a clean landing but air frame is assessed as not worth repairing so pushed to the side and abandoned and/or used for parts.
1. Would this plane show on the "loss" list (per Ric page 14 of this thread) since it technically wasnt crashed? If not, I assume there would be another list to record a "retirement" or "attrition" such as this hypothetical case.
2. What would be the most likely utimate destiny of the air frame post hostilities? ie Never available for local salvage, available for local salvage for some period of time until dumped at sea, bulldozed/buried, fully available for local salvage at any time?
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Tim Collins

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #371 on: March 01, 2014, 08:16:07 AM »

Are detailed records extant for the facility that did the repairs after the ground loup?  Perhaps useful to track down other aircraft (if they still exist) that passed through before or after AE's Electra if only to compare materials?  I know it's a rediculous long shot, but it's a thought anyway.
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JNev

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #372 on: March 01, 2014, 09:12:30 AM »

This photo in the purdue archives shows something odd under it but I'm not sure exactly where it is. The photo is taken from the opposite side but something seems to be protruding from the skin close to that area maybe a little rear of the suspected location?

I see what you mean, but that photo was taken at Burbank in early March before the first world flight attempt, so it was before the wreck and the repairs.

But it could tell us something of an alteration, if present.  That may be a standard belly vent - or maybe something else. 

Were belly stiffeners altered in placement to accommodate some piece of equipment?  We have at least one notable offset to deal with in the artifact if it came from this area of the Electra - a found alteration might help explain that.
- Jeff Neville

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Mark Pearce

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #373 on: March 01, 2014, 09:36:04 AM »

...What would be the most likely utimate destiny of the air frame post hostilities? ie Never available for local salvage, available for local salvage for some period of time until dumped at sea, bulldozed/buried, fully available for local salvage at any time?


Interesting question Doug. In January 1955 National Geographic ran an article titled;

"Air Age Brings Life to Canton Island: Planes Spanning the South Pacific Transform an Uninhabited Mid-ocean Coral Reef into a Busy Base,"

Part of the text reads;

"...burning of wartime eyesores affords fire-fighting practice and improves Canton's landscape.  But ugly reminders remain: old plane wrecks, junk piles of rusting military equipment, snapped-off wireless poles, grown-over artillery posts and ammunition storage bunkers, hundreds of useless fuel drums, abandoned buildings plundered for lumber..."

Nikumaroro settlers were employed on Canton Island following the war, and most likely were working there at the time this article was published.  It makes sense to believe they brought the B-24 parts and maybe other odds and ends found on Nikumaroro back from Canton Island's trash heaps.

See http://tighar.org/wiki/Niku_IIII_(2001)

"...Divers and waders examined and metal-detected the shallows of the northern lagoon... A truck wheel and tire were recorded, and a stainless steel exhaust manifold of a B-24 was recovered. Both are interpreted as trash from the later colonial village period; the Loran Station was equipped with a truck, and we have found other B-24 parts in the village, probably from a crash site on Canton Island, where some of the Nikumaroro colonists were employed in the 1940s and 50s."
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: The Question of 2-2-V-1
« Reply #374 on: March 01, 2014, 07:18:58 PM »

Ric,
What year was the "wheel of fortune"?
Ted Campbell
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