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[Jerry Germann]

Hello Ric,
Thank you for the information regarding Titamen passage , it provided me a greater understanding of the area , I was under the impression that water coming up the reef was barely able to make it into and out of the lagoon, and the majority of the time it is a dry area one could walk over ,with the water very shallow entering the lagoon , the pictures found on the net of the area don't show the true picture ....I'm learning..... As far as the radio transmissions , yes , it puzzles numerous people as to why she wouldn't have said in at least one of her broadcasts that there was a large shipwreck nearby ,even if she didn't know the name of the ship , it would have been a huge clue to would be rescuers. I am not convinced she didn't try to do that , as  several ones who reported hearing some of her transmissions say there were some words that came through weak or unintelligable.

[Greg Daspit]

As far as the radio transmissions , yes , it puzzles numerous people as to why she wouldn't have said in at least one of her broadcasts that there was a large shipwreck nearby ,even if she didn't know the name of the ship , it would have been a huge clue to would be rescuers.

I think you would find answers to many of your questions on Ameliapedia.
See Ship is on a reef South of the Equator
Also see Betty's Notebook where Betty heard something that sounded like New York being said over and over again. Sometimes by both Amelia and Fred. The name of the shipwreck is Norwich City which sounds like New York City. I think they were saying Norwich City over and over again because that was a "huge clue" to where they were.

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

As far as the radio transmissions , yes , it puzzles numerous people as to why she wouldn't have said in at least one of her broadcasts that there was a large shipwreck nearby ,even if she didn't know the name of the ship , it would have been a huge clue to would be rescuers. I am not convinced she didn't try to do that , as  several ones who reported hearing some of her transmissions say there were some words that came through weak or unintelligable.

It was speculated in another thread Jerry that it was a possibility that FN knew of the wreck and its location, the Phoenix group of islands, from his career at sea 'Following a distinguished 22-year career at sea  which included sailing around Cape Horn seven times (three times under sail), Noonan contemplated a new career direction. After learning to fly in the late 1920s, he received a "limited commercial pilot's license" in 1930, on which he listed his occupation as "aviator." In following year as a Merchant Mariner, he was awarded "license #121190, Class Master, any ocean," the qualifications of a merchant ship's captain.'

[Jerry Germann]

Hello again,
                   Thank you for the great sites in which to really get educated on all the little details that aren't covered in ordinary everyday media. In looking at Betty's notes for the first time , I too thought right away,.... those NYs , why so many times was that repeated, and was is really Norwich City Betty was hearing? Ok, so where do we go from here? I know an expedition seems planned for this coming summer of 2014 ,and I am sure it will be number one on the list to explore the anomoly off the reef down some 600-1000 feet, however I was thinking if time and resourses were available, and I know this may sound far fetched to some , but I was wondering about the possibility of Tighar taking along a trained cadaver dog ( not to search for Amelia) as it has been assumed she wound up in Fiji, no , but to look for Fred. If Amelia had to bury him in those conditions I would suspect that he was buried very shallow. If you look on the net these dogs have been used to find 100 year old graves ( before the use of embalming fluid) which of course wasn't used in this case, and in the 33 year old Ethan Patz case....the dogs are trained on 300 year old bones....just a thought.  I guess I would look in seven site with such a dog first , but if nothing turns up there , then Was it possible Amelia used a marker of some kind , that has until now gone un-noticed? Also, what about the use of ground penetrating radar , some use this as a tool in their search for graves, is this an instrument that could be used to find a grave on the islands terrain? If we find Fred , we find Amelia.

[Ric Gillespie]

We tried ground penetrating radar in 2010 and found that it doesn't work in coral rubble.  We're actively looking into the possible use of forensic dogs on a future expedition but probably not on the 2012 trip.

[Bruce Thomas]

... I was wondering about the possibility of Tighar taking along a trained cadaver dog  ... Also, what about the use of ground penetrating radar  ...

Jerry, if you'll make use of the Search facilities within the Forum, as well as for the entire tighar.org website, you'll find prior discussions about both of those topics.

For searching the Forum, I suggest that you first press on the "Search" link that is in the string of links beneath where your name appears. Key "cadaver dog" into the blank field presented to you, and peruse the Forum entries that come up.

For searching all of tighar.org, click on "Search TIGHAR" just under the TIGHAR Logo near the top of the screen, and use that mechanism. Key "ground penetrating radar" there and see what comes up, both from the Forum as well as the wider search of files on the website.

[Jerry Germann]

Bruce,

Thank you, will do....If anyone is interested in what a good dog can do , type in migaloo ( as Jimmy Tyler and Matt Revington and others have already brought to the forum) and see her amazing capabilities , if there were any bones left concerning Amelia as well , bet she could find them.

[Jerry Germann]

Hello again,
 
                Bruce and others are trying to straighten me out and eventually I will get it , in my rush to help with clues I sense I am just (getting in the way) , after all these people have been working on solving this mystery for decades , I have only tuned in recently , so it is good advice to listen to the moderators and do a little bit more research on what subjects have been discussed in depth, and what hasn't been touched on very much, if at all . Anyway, I was thinking if those people with dogs want big money to go to the island , perhaps somewhere in this big wide world , one can find someone willing to do it just for the thrill of the adventure, and if he and his dog did find something worthwhile ? well think of the ramifacations.....MY DOG , found Amelia and Fred ...Big book deal and movie in the works, Big $$$$$$$$ It seems a big ado has been made over just a fingertip ( subjected to DNA analysis and such),.... find more and maybe we will get more  answers. And in addition, we just may be able to give Amelia and Fred the proper burial they deserve.

[Tim Collins]

I would be so bold as to suggest that if the decision is made to take a cadaver dog, it should not be from the states but one already in the south pacific - Fiji or Samoa perhaps? or where ever the staging is for that particular trip. That way there's the possibility, however remote, of getting a dog accustomed to ocean travel and an even better chance to minimize or avoid altogether any necessary animal quarantine issues. 

[Jerry Germann]

Agree, let the dog and his handler do their thing apart from what the other Tighar explorers are doing ....Yes , finding the plane would be terrific , however finding Amelia and Fred would be better .....people over material things.

[Ric Gillespie]

Some basic issues to consider when thinking about taking forensic dogs to Niku:

1.  Why?  To find bones of course.  What bones?  The castaway bones that Gallagher didn't find and/or Fred's grave.  What makes us think such bones still exist after 76+ years? Lots of birds and rats have died on that island over the years.  Why isn't the island knee-deep in bird and rat bones?  What happens to them?  Why aren't the woods near your home littered with deer, rabbit, squirrel, mouse, bird, woodchuck, and wildebeest bones? Because critters, big and small, chew 'em up.  Are there any critters on Niku that might chew up bones?  Yep. Rats.  Lots of 'em. Do vegetarian Polynesian Rats (Rattus exulans) chew bones?  Dunno, but the bones on Niku go somewhere. So is there any reason to think the castaway bones that Gallagher didn't find are still there someplace? Not that I can think of, unless they somehow got buried. Ditto for Fred's bones.
So the dogs would be looking for bones that somehow got buried either by people or crabs. A long shot at best.

2. What risks would there be to the expedition if dogs were on the team?  A dog would have to be treated like any other team member. If a team member gets a life-threatening illness or injury the expedition must be aborted to get the team member to hospital. Is a dog more likely to get sick or be injured at Niku than a human?

[Jerry Germann]

Hello,

            I have read about some of the exploring that Tighar did regarding bone search and it seems like in the past you were all for that. If Fred was buried by Amelia couldn't there be a chance that some of his remains would still be there? And if some of both were taken down holes by the crabs , it may be possible that the dogs could tell you which ones. I know it would be more costly and risky, as we all know , the more people going along, the more likelyhood that something is going to happen to someone. Maybe this isn't the time ( on this trip), but however this new trip turns out, whether the electra is found or not, I am thinking the next order of business would be to do the best one could to recover the people involved,( a smaller bone recovery trip, with as few people ( and dogs) as possible, so the proper thing could be done with what does remain of them. IMHO one bone fragment from Amelia or Fred would be worth more than that whole electra.

[George Lam]

"IMHO one bone fragment from Amelia or Fred would be worth more than that whole electra."

The entire electra would cause a media sensation worldwide.  The general public would be impressed.  A small bone fragment would, if DNA proven, be exciting among scientists and like minded people.  The general public might accept the truth but it won't be as impressive as the electra.  Either one would put my mind at ease, but the electra is more dramatic! IMO of course.

[Jerry Germann]

NEWS FLASH !!!! (That's what they said way back then)  EARHARTS PLANE FOUND!!!!! Ok,  there we go, it is found, sure it is a nice piece of history and all , however it doesn't COMPLETE the story..... to put to rest all the theories of what happened to the People aboard it, more must be discovered. Finding the plane is only the half of it. Sure artifacts were found and YES they could have belonged to Amelia, however ;does it prove she and Fred died there? If left unfound there will always be the cannibals came and got her stories , the japanese picked her up and took her to Saipan stories, she lived  a life as someone else, etc, etc,...Yes I do wholeheartedly agree with Tighar's methodology, that being :(find the haystack before you search for the needle). However if that haystack is found then please don't overlook the search for the needle, thus completing the story once and for all. They found Hitler's bunker but they didn't find him , it leaves us lacking.

[Ric Gillespie]

Finding conclusive proof that the flight ended at Gardner Island - whatever that proof turns out to be - will only be the beginning of sorting out the story of AE and FN's last days.