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Author Topic: 1938 Photos Study Group  (Read 186883 times)

Ric Gillespie

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #90 on: October 03, 2013, 09:25:55 AM »

This feature is a genuine mystery.  Jeff Glickman spotted it and, at first, it was a real mind-blower.  The "airplane" even appears in a second image, although it seems to be facing in the opposite direction.
The "trail" is real and seems unnaturally straight. It only appears in this one image and it is not present in later aerial photos or satellite images, so it seems to have grown back in, which suggests that it was man-made.
After careful scaling, Jeff determined that the "airplane" is about twice as big as a Lockheed Electra, so unless somebody landed a DC-3 there (don't even GO there) it's not an airplane.  It's possible that the "trail" and/or the "airplane" are somehow associated with the hypothetical Camp Zero. We don't know what the hell it is but you can bet that we'll be checking it out that area when we go back.

Lessons:
• it's easy to be fooled by shapes
• accurate scaling is crucial
• there is no substitute for ground-truth (physical hands-on inspection)

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Brad Beeching

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #91 on: October 03, 2013, 09:46:46 AM »

I don't have access to any photo's, but my first impression of this one is a tarp or oil cloth pulled over some kind of square shape.

B
Brad

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #92 on: October 03, 2013, 09:50:35 AM »

For a while this was really traumatic.  We couldn't resolve an airplane in the bushes with the Bevington Object.  The matching of the water levels on the reef with the post-loss radio transmissions would be pure coincidence.  And how could the plane go undiscovered by Maude and Bevington, the New Zealand Survey, the Bushnell Survey, etc., etc. ?  And yet, if the plane was there, it was there - whether we understood how or not.  It was actually a relief to establish that it can't be the plane, but it was an interesting exercise that tested our willingness to accept that we could be wrong. 
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Monty Fowler

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #93 on: October 03, 2013, 09:53:17 AM »

... it was an interesting exercise that tested our willingness to accept that we could be wrong.

And this is what differentiates TIGHAR from other efforts.

LTM, who is always willing to admit,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Tim Collins

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #94 on: October 03, 2013, 12:06:29 PM »

Has the Nimanoa cairn been sighted?
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Tim Collins

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #95 on: October 03, 2013, 12:17:10 PM »

The "trail" is real and seems unnaturally straight. It only appears in this one image and it is not present in later aerial photos or satellite images, so it seems to have grown back in, which suggests that it was man-made.

Could it possibly be a low/shallow escarpment visable only from certain angles? To my mind, the NZ survey map would seem to suggest this. Though I still think it's a scratch on the negative.

 
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 12:24:27 PM by Tim Collins »
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #96 on: October 03, 2013, 02:51:41 PM »

Ric,
Is there a way to "crop" an area on the orginal photos where something interesting might be then post it in the TIF format?  I am just wondering if this method would reduce the file size so it will go through the web.
Ted Campbell
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Jennifer Hubbard

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #97 on: October 03, 2013, 08:14:31 PM »

Re the possibility of trails: when a trail is cut in this environment, how long does it generally take before the vegetation regrows?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #98 on: October 03, 2013, 08:27:55 PM »

Could it possibly be a low/shallow escarpment visable only from certain angles? To my mind, the NZ survey map would seem to suggest this.

Those are one foot contour lines.  I think the little pinnacle on the survey map is too low and too far inland to be the airplane-shaped feature.

 
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Tim Collins

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #99 on: October 04, 2013, 06:45:22 AM »

Could it possibly be a low/shallow escarpment visable only from certain angles? To my mind, the NZ survey map would seem to suggest this.

Those are one foot contour lines.  I think the little pinnacle on the survey map is too low and too far inland to be the airplane-shaped feature.

I was referring to the contour lines as an explanation for the "trail".
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #100 on: October 04, 2013, 08:38:36 AM »


I know.  I'm suggesting that there's not enough change in elevation to show up as something as big as the airplane-shaped feature.
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Tim Collins

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #101 on: October 04, 2013, 09:23:56 AM »

If I'm following Tim Collins' idea right, the contour line might correspond to a somewhat exposed strata of coral. 

Yes that is what I've suggested. We're seeing an exposed side face of a "cliff" (albeit maybe a foot or so tall) as it were. Whether or not there is a flat area above it, and hence the possibility of a path, I couldn't say. Frankly I'm still not certain it isn't a scratch on the negative. 

This "path" or what ever it is seems to follow the same contour lines indicated in that area on the NZ survey map.

Any feature resembling an airplane is another topic entirely - I would suggest it is simply coincidentally-shaped vegetation. 

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Tim Mellon

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #102 on: October 04, 2013, 11:32:25 AM »

In any case, it will be interesting to see if TIGHAR can turn anything up at this location when back out there.  It kind of sticks out, like the '7 Site' did, I think - draws the eye to something 'different', for sure.

Speaking of the 7 Site (see attached), it doesn't seem likely that this pattern was cut out of the vegetation with a pen-knife in the previous year. Does anyone in the Study Group detect any signs of human habitation or use of this area from these photos?

Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #103 on: October 04, 2013, 11:51:14 AM »

Speaking of the 7 Site (see attached), it doesn't seem likely that this pattern was cut out of the vegetation with a pen-knife in the previous year.

The 7-shaped area of bare coral rubble is a natural feature that is visible in the 1937 Lambrecht Photo.  There are many other bare coral areas around the island.  This one just happens to be in the shape of a 7.

Does anyone in the Study Group detect any signs of human habitation or use of this area from these photos?

Nothing definite yet but there a few things that we'll ask Jeff Glickman to look at.
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Rich Ramsey

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Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #104 on: October 04, 2013, 01:39:47 PM »

So I was looking that "airplane" and "path" over. I know I am not an expert and I am not sure the scale works but I have an idea. Could it be a shelter of some sort? I first thought it could be part of the plane. Almost a place to put someone that was hurt and couldn't move well. Get him out of the sun, and the path could be from carting supplies from the NC survivor's camp.
"Hang Tough"
Rich
 
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