Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13   Go Down

Author Topic: 1938 Photos Study Group  (Read 187037 times)

Tim Collins

  • T4
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #150 on: October 08, 2013, 09:46:14 AM »

The NZ survey team would have physically covered a high percentage of the island. Is there a report that accompanies their maps? Surely if aircraft wreckage, or anything of interest, they would have reported it. 
Logged

Rich Ramsey

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Hang Tough
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #151 on: October 08, 2013, 10:20:00 AM »

Thanks for the Reply, just seems like there are so many bits and pieces to a puzzle that I find it hard to think that it wasn't looked into more than it was. I was not aware that the colonist were that destitute and the language barrier was that big of an issue. Still the man (Gallagher) was there long enough for some head scratching one would think. I'll go back to my arm chair again.

:)
"Hang Tough"
Rich
 
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6101
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #152 on: October 08, 2013, 10:35:38 AM »

The NZ survey team would have physically covered a high percentage of the island. 

Ahhh, the old "would have" monster rears its ugly head.  Actually, the NZ survey team physically covered very little of the entire island.  They concentrated their efforts on the part of the island where it looked like might be possible to build an airfield.


Is there a report that accompanies their maps?

In the Archives section of the TIGHAR website under "Nikumaroro/Gardner Island and Regional Background" you'll find four reports.

Surely if aircraft wreckage, or anything of interest, they would have reported it.

"Would have" again.  Probably?  Yes.  Surely? No.
Logged

Tim Collins

  • T4
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #153 on: October 08, 2013, 10:46:50 AM »

Ahhh, the old "would have" monster rears its ugly head.  Actually, the NZ survey team physically covered very little of the entire island.  They concentrated their efforts on the part of the island where it looked like might be possible to build an airfield.

So you're suggesting that much of their topographical map was simply made up?
Logged

Jay Burkett

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #154 on: October 08, 2013, 11:14:49 AM »

Tim,

Poor quality maps, both topographical and nautical, plagued the Allies throughout the campaigns in the Pacific.  There is at least one account of the crew of a U.S. sub (U.S.S. Wahoo I think) used an elementary school geography textbook to locate and naviagte the appraoches to Wewak, New Guinea.  The Marines on Guadalcanal were issued topo maps that were totally inaccurate.  MArines resorted to drawing their own maps.  It would be safe to assume that the topo maps of Niku, which were from the same, or earlier time period, would have been equally inaccurate.
Jay Burkett, N4RBY
Aerospace Engineer
Fairhope AL
 
Logged

Tim Collins

  • T4
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #155 on: October 08, 2013, 11:16:35 AM »

I stand corrected, sort of - the report states "The survey work consisted of traversing traversing an area of about 200 acres at the northwestern corner of the island and stadia profiles were taken at five chain intervals from which a contour plan has been prepared."

So running a surveying chain at 5 chain intervals (5 x 66ft = 330ft) it would be quite possible to miss something as large as an airplane, especially in dense jungle-like terrain.
Logged

Jay Burkett

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #156 on: October 08, 2013, 11:18:39 AM »

Here is a link to one site that addresses Wahoo using a school atlas for navigation: 

http://www.mackinnon.org/wahoo-warrep-3.html
Jay Burkett, N4RBY
Aerospace Engineer
Fairhope AL
 
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6101
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #157 on: October 08, 2013, 11:21:58 AM »

So you're suggesting that much of their topographical map was simply made up?

Not at all.  Their detailed map of the "Aerodrome Reserve" - later called Nutiran (nuZEEran - New Zealand) in their honor - was created with a ground survey.  The map of the entire island is largely the result of the aerial photos we've been studying.
For contrast, look at what the USS Bushnell survey did a few months later.  They erected three towers from which sightings could be taken of specific points around the shore of the lagoon and they took direct overhead aerial photos that were then used to create mosaic. The resulting U.S. Hydrographic Office map is far better than the New Zealand map but, even so,  the Bushnell surveyors didn't tramp over much of the island.  There was no need.
Logged

Rich Ramsey

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Hang Tough
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #158 on: October 09, 2013, 09:45:07 AM »

Please don't hang me for this but! I was looking at the image again that Ric Posted. Now I know it isn't a airplane, it might not even be related to AE. However I looked on Bing and Google to see if there was something there. Well Google had nothing, it was all overgrown. But when I took a look at Bing I found what I pointed out as an Object in the shrubs and a "path" or the illusion of an object and path. The problem is it looks to be much farther inland than on the old photo. However you look at it something is there Man made or not, something unusual is there.

I return you now to more relevant conversations.
"Hang Tough"
Rich
 
Logged

Greg Daspit

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 788
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #159 on: October 09, 2013, 12:31:58 PM »

One possible reason trails may be developed is a routine to watch for ships to signal.  The northern most tip of the island allows a good wide view North, West and East. The tip south of the hypothesized  camp zero allows a good view of the west and a good part of the southern horizon.  The Norwich City could provide a high point to see over the horizon more. From some of the pictures the “beach” looks too rocky and steep to walk on easily so the route may be inland at times and connect natural areas of no growth.
3971R
 
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6101
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #160 on: October 09, 2013, 02:11:18 PM »

Please don't hang me for this but! I was looking at the image again that Ric Posted. Now I know it isn't a airplane, it might not even be related to AE. However I looked on Bing and Google to see if there was something there. Well Google had nothing, it was all overgrown. But when I took a look at Bing I found what I pointed out as an Object in the shrubs and a "path" or the illusion of an object and path. The problem is it looks to be much farther inland than on the old photo. However you look at it something is there Man made or not, something unusual is there.

In this 2011 satellite image it looks less rectilinear.  Trails, if there were any, would not survive for more than a few years.

Logged

Doug Giese

  • inactive
  • *
  • Posts: 70
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #161 on: October 09, 2013, 04:22:40 PM »

Erosion? It looks like a fair amount of water has flowed into the 'feature' from about 11 O'Clock. The reddish/white/gray area at the bottom looks like an alluvial fan.
------
Doug
 
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6101
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #162 on: October 09, 2013, 04:51:26 PM »

Has this area been that 'open' for long, or more brushy in years past?

The density of vegetation on Niku depends entirely on rainfall and rainfall is erratic.  The island goes through periods of drought and other periods of relatively abundant rainfall.  1938 was a severe drought year. 1960-63 was so bad that they abandoned the colony. Aerial photos taken in 1985 show a very lush island.  And so forth.
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6101
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #163 on: October 09, 2013, 05:30:39 PM »

There are objects there - question is 'what are they' I guess.

That's all Buka forest in that area and my guess is that we're seeing some big fallen Buka trees.
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6101
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: 1938 Photos Study Group
« Reply #164 on: October 09, 2013, 05:40:13 PM »

They suggest a similar lay-out to the 'foundation / wall' up north, but not quite the same appearance.  The 'wall' looks too irregular to be 'tree trunk' to me.

And the "wall" up north is not in an area of big trees.  The Buka forest is inland from there.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13   Go Up
 

Copyright 2024 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.18 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines Powered by PHP