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[Gloria Walker Burger]

Gloria, a spirited discussion of that question ensued after a posting on that topic in March 2011.

Thanks so much, Bruce! I did read that whole thread, but nowhere in those musings did anyone talk about enhancing an earlier photo, (maybe by Jeff Glickman? Is such a thing possible?) I know I shouldn't have put that note on that thread, but I didn't know where else to put it, and I didn't think the thought deserved its own thread...so I threw it in there...and you caught me!

[Randy Conrad]

Gloria...I ran across these photos last night as I was wondering about the same question alot of people had asked in conjunction with Betty's notebook and why N.Y kept coming up. If you think about it and you're already half dead from thirst and dehydrated your speech would slur too. So try saying Norwich City and New York City really fast and see the resemblance. Anyway, here are some photos. The one with the name of the ship is the one where it hit the bridge several years before it ran a ground on Gardner. Hope it helps!!!!

[Gloria Walker Burger]

Thanks, Randy!

[Greg Daspit]

Regarding the Dehydration mentioned.  The injuries may be Fred was suffering from heat stroke, which he may have died from. Symptoms of heat stroke include severe headache and mental confusion. Heat stroke could be fatal.

From Betty's Notebook the “man”(Fred) appears to be confused and was complaining of the heat. Betty noted he complained of his head after he said “let me out of here” .
“Let me out” could imply Amelia was blocking Fred’s way out.  The Electra’s hatch set up has Amelia blocking Fred’s access to it in their normal seating.(Unique information supportive of Betty). A possible explanation for Amelia’s “ouch”  is Fred may have tried to climb over Amelia to get to the hatch above her and stepped on her or hurt her somehow trying to get out of the hot plane and get some air.
“Where are you going” could imply that Fred tried to go out the back and Amelia asked this because she suspected he could not get out that way. Perhaps the rear port door was blocked because it was facing the waves on the edge of the reef, yet the starboard engine was clear to run. (A NE orientation) The plane may have been in the process of going over and was very close to the edge and “slipping”. An earlier outgoing tide, slope of the reef and prevailing winds seem like they would support an orientation where the plane was facing NE during a process of moving SW. Also the change in location from high to low could explain the “knee deep” statement versus the tide constraint of a higher location during earlier signals. Graphics in pdf attached. (edit: sorry the elevations show the door on wrong side and text is cut off)

As discussed previously, Amelia may have received a foot or ankle injury at some time based on the parts of a man’s and woman’s shoe found with of one set of bones. That injury could have occurred sometime after the landing. For example from a fall on the reef. From E.W. Lee's report “The reef is excessively slippery – it is extremely difficult to walk on it unladen – and as a result of the frequent falls” they lost supplies

[Tim Gard]

Now that more evidence has become apparent my updated impressions of July 5th 1937 are:

1. The pressing need for communication placed Fred in the right seat of his own accord.
2. Bill de Cleef's analysis that the starboard engine needed to run at 1200 RPM or higher to activate the cut out relay so the battery(ies) could be recharged.
3. Fuel was not yet at the crucial level because there had been an attempt to preserve the as yet untouched 100 octane tank.
4. The high RPM, low battery voltage, perceived encroaching high tide and Fred's failure to observe the ammeter trapped Amelia in the left seat.
5. Amelia could not instantly vacate her seat at Fred's whim without potentially abandoning control i.e. allowing the high power setting of the starboard engine to cause repositioning of the aircraft which was already precariously located.
6. The "ouch" and expletives indicate that Fred did evacuate the Electra.
7. The intensity of the heat prioritised Fred's exit from the cockpit in both time and method, i.e the local open hatch was far more appealing than going deeper into the searing heat of the fuselage to exit via the rear door.
8. Fred was not being detained to protect him from wandering into the rotating starboard propeller. He was in the right seat of his own volition, evidenced by his desire to transmit.
 
 

[matt john barth]

You know what Rick says about being at the seven site does make a lot of sense when compiled with what Edgar Casey had to say. Edgar was I guess the best of the psychics at the time in the world. G. Putnam paid Edgar for 2 readings about AE/FN. From what I read he said that he was sure Amelia Died on or around July 21rst and he said that FN was already dead at the time from injuries sustained in the landing. Where he is off is he thinks the island was north west of Howland. http://hamptonroads.com/2009/11/did-edgar-cayce-know-where-amelia-ended
I don't believe in this stuff just found it interesting since the subject has arisen.

[matt john barth]

Here is a better link to the Edgar Cayce story. What I find intriguing is what Edgar says almost matches Tighar's Hypothesis so far almost perfectly. When Tighar has cut their own path with their evidence naturally, it matches up with what Cayce said as well. I know things just conveniently worked out this way. I still find it interesting.

http://www.edgarcayce.org/are/blog.aspx?id=6479

[Tim Gard]

Here is a better link to the Edgar Cayce story. What I find intriguing is what Edgar says almost matches Tighar's Hypothesis so far almost perfectly.

I'm not averse to the sixth sense, one anecdote having stated that Amelia divined the sites of two aircrashes, but Cayce's info seems as vague as it is anxious to please.

Details of Amelia's demise are contrasted with the prediction that she will complete the world flight safely while the authorities fruitlessly search the area he advises.

[Ric Gillespie]

Actually, Cayce's fantasies are way off the mark from what the available genuine evidence suggests. This is the way psychics work. People ignore the inaccuracies and focus on the coincidental hits.

[matt john barth]

I see what you all mean by "trolls", they seem to be everywhere when you look at it that way. Even the hardware store is not free of them. There are other variables that some might not consider. I have been behind the controls of a little airplane in the air so I can't speak from experience but, what if the plane didn't have enough power to get all the way up the high tide mark in the first place? I mean it probably only can push the plane through so much sand and dirt. Really doesn't look as if that plane was set up for 4x4 ing. So then Bob's tide report is a great thing to have because it makes us aware of other things but if the plane couldn't make it to the high water mark then know one could really know where the water level would have been. There is good information to make the assumption that the plane did get to the water mark. If I am thinking of this wrong or backwards please feel free to comment.

[matt john barth]

Actually, Cayce's fantasies are way off the mark from what the available genuine evidence suggests. This is the way psychics work. People ignore the inaccuracies and focus on the coincidental hits.

I am not sure if I am doing this correctly as far as quotes go, I am still learning this site. I have noticed psychics do that. I just never really new how to explain or put into words how they operate. That is why I get hung up on Cayce. There must me more to the story than I can find to read about. Is there more to this story? I know he was off about where they were as far as being northwest of Howland Island. I think what he did say does support Tighar's hypothesis for the most part. Do you think I read to much into it? You won't hurt my feelings be honest.

[Ric Gillespie]

I think what he did say does support Tighar's hypothesis for the most part. Do you think I read to much into it? You won't hurt my feelings be honest.

Nothing Cayce said supports TIGHAR's hypothesis because nothing Cayce said is evidence.   Whether or not some of it turns out to be true, it's all just stuff he made up.

[matt john barth]

That is true. I really don't believe in that sort of thing but sometimes they hooks in me. Sorry

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

The record file for FNs maritime career seems to have got the name of one the ships he served on incorrect.

http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/09_Noonan/09_Noonan.html

NOTE: Much of the maritime history is from a personnel service records file for “Subject, Noonan, Frederick Jos., Deck Officer.” File number 3-A-1. This file from US Shipping Board, Emergency Fleet Corporation, Operating Department Division. This file and related information came from the National Archives.

1927 & 28 Irona – Oct. 7-May 25. Rated 3rd Mate. United Fruit Company.


Should read:
Company Name: United Fruit Company / Great White Fleet
Ship Name: SS Iriona

[Tim Gard]

After giving this a great deal of thought my take on this is as follows.

Sometime during the rollout the port gear broke off. The impact fedback through the brakes and caused AE's foot injury by some interaction between her foot and the rudder pedals. The gear collapse caused impact injury to Fred.

The Electra came to rest with the port wingtip on the deck and the Electra was left immobile.

During the July 5th transmission, Fred could not help but witness the port wingtip because the fuselage was tipped in that direction, providing an unrestricted view of both water and wingtip.