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Author Topic: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro  (Read 48853 times)

Tim Mellon

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2013, 06:31:44 PM »

Show me the stickers.

Here (red arrow) and here (amber arrow).
Tim
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« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 08:08:08 PM by Tim Mellon »
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Tim Mellon

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2013, 06:52:30 PM »

Tim

Once again I think that the lack of scale is misleading everyone.  Your prop would be about 40 ft long in my estimation.  I wasn't part of the team the day those photos were taken, but based upon typical flights the photos were taken from about 200 ft up, so the scale is much larger than you are imagining in your visualization of a prop.

Andrew

But Andrew, you don't know the altitude, do you? You admitted that the altimeter did not report on the film. So it is possible, isn't it, that he kite could have been at 50 feet, or 100 feet, or anything in between? So, very possibly, it could be a prop, couldn't it? And, of course, it could be a Bevington Object with bulimia, I suppose.

We must all be held to the same standard of intellectual honesty, after all.
Tim
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2013, 08:18:21 PM »

Tim

You are right, I don't KNOW the altitude of the kite at the moment that it took the photo, but I do have direct experience flying the kite borne camera, and I have direct experience diving the grooves in the reef, including the area covered by these photos.  Based upon that experience, my estimate of the altitude is 200-300 ft.

Go back the the original photos posted in post #18 and look at the composite photo.   Think about how high the camera was to capture those images.  What you see is the surf line and about half the reef flat.  If the reef flat is say 150 yards between the surf line and the beach, you are looking at some 200 + ft of reef flat, and if that is the case, your prop is considerably bigger than you think it is.

Each of those grooves in the reef are some 6-8 ft across, big enough for a diver to swim up the groove to the surf line.  I know because that is exactly what we did in 2001, from the landing channel to near the NE end of the island, swam up every one of them.  If there was a prop there, we would have found it, especially if it was as big as you think it was.

So, no, I don't know the exact altitude of the kite, but I have direct experience to estimate that altitude, and I do know the scale of the grooves on the reef.  That experience leads me to dismiss your visualization of a prop in the photo as being realistic as I know the scale is way off.

Andrew

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2013, 08:39:38 PM »

And the chains, Ric? Please explain the chains.

I see no chains.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2013, 08:42:15 PM »

It's from a Brewster F2A-3 Buffalo at Midway.

How deep is that Buffalo, Ric? Is it comparable?

The Buffalo debris at a depth of 8 to 10 feet.
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Michael Elliot

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2013, 09:27:08 PM »

re. chains

Chains were used in the flap mechanism of L-10s.
I would expect they were the same general structure as bicycle chains -- each sprocket hole has two cross bars and two side bars. That's my speculation, not fact.
Have sent a query to the guy that rebuilt CF-TCC.
Will let you know when I hear.

Mike
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Tim Mellon

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2013, 01:01:44 AM »

Mike, the chains that are apparent to me have forged one-piece links, totally unlike the bicycle chain you are describing. I don't think they arrived on the airplane by the lengths I can see. More likely from the Norwich City, IMHO.

Tim
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« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 06:07:39 AM by Tim Mellon »
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Tim Mellon

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2013, 01:31:25 AM »


So, no, I don't know the exact altitude of the kite, but I have direct experience to estimate that altitude, and I do know the scale of the grooves on the reef.  That experience leads me to dismiss your visualization of a prop in the photo as being realistic as I know the scale is way off.

Andrew

There is certainly no equal to first hand experience, Andrew, so I must defer to your judgement here.

Tim
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« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 05:50:08 AM by Tim Mellon »
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Tim Mellon

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2013, 05:01:59 AM »

And the chains, Ric? Please explain the chains.

I see no chains.

Perhaps we are looking at chain coral?

Tim
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« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 05:49:38 AM by Tim Mellon »
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2013, 12:02:35 PM »

re. chains

Chains were used in the flap mechanism of L-10s.
I would expect they were the same general structure as bicycle chains -- each sprocket hole has two cross bars and two side bars. That's my speculation, not fact.
Have sent a query to the guy that rebuilt CF-TCC.
Will let you know when I hear.

Mike

Mike, here is a picture I got somewhere, sorry I no longer remember where, that appears to be of the crash of an L-10 Electra. The red arrow points to what seems to be the chain that drives the flaps.
Woody (former 3316R)
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2013, 12:32:44 PM »

Mike, here is a picture I got somewhere, sorry I no longer remember where, that appears to be of the crash of an L-10 Electra. The red arrow points to what seems to be the chain that drives the flaps.

That's the Gillam crash in Alaska that we investigated.  The arrow points to a rivet line along a seam in the wing, not a chain.
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2013, 12:53:02 PM »

Thanks for the location Ric.
If you "blow up" the picture, I can do this on my computer but I cannot save the enlarged picture, it appears that the rivet line is below the "chain" as you look at the picture. There also, IMO, appears to be a motor, with a gear attached, at the black arrow.
Woody (former 3316R)
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2013, 01:23:06 PM »

See attached detail from another view of the same feature.  No chain.
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2013, 01:32:26 PM »

See attached detail from another view of the same feature.  No chain.

OK. It also shows that there is no pump. Thanks Ric.

Are those rusty, steel rivets??
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The Slope of the Reef around Nikumaroro
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2013, 05:11:59 PM »

Are those rusty, steel rivets??

I think they're rusty steel screws.
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