Would it count?

[Don Yee]

A colleague and I were talking about the mystery of Mallory and Irvine, the men who possibly made it to the top of Everest more than 20 years before Hillary (their bodies have been found below the summit so it's still not clear if they made it). My colleague said that in the climbing world even if they did make it to the top, it would not count as to be considered the first to climb a mountain you also have to survive the decent.

That got me thinking if the wreckage of the White Bird was found in Newfoundland, would Nungesser and Coli still receive credit for making it (in the spirit of mountain climbing)? Perhaps their plane made it across the Atlantic, but does not surviving negate the accomplishment? It's more of a philosophical question I guess.

Don...

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

I accept Michael Tracy's argument that Mallory and Irvine made it to the top of Everest and died on the descent.

As you say, it does not count among mountaineers.

More people die on the descent of Everest than on the ascent.

The majority of the people who have died on Everest did so after reaching the peak.


I personally would apply the same rule to Nungesser and Coli.

By all means, credit where credit is due: Mallory and Irvine, in my opinion, were the first to reach the top of Everest. That is quite an accomplishment! Nungesser and Coli flew from France to Newfoundland non-stop. That is pretty good, but their goal was to reach New York non-stop.

Lindberg was the 67th man to cross Atlantic. If we are giving partial credit, that list would have to be revised.

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

Michael Tracy has a new video up today: Response to Jon Krakauer.

It gives an overview of Tracy's arguments. In it, he suggests that Mallory and Irvine were "the first victims of summit fever on Mount Everest."

This is Tracy's website, malloryandirvine.com. 

[Dale O. Beethe]

I've been watching his videos for a while now.  I think he makes an excellent case that Mallory and Irvine probably made the summit, but he's always about going with what the evidence actually says.  I, for one, wish they'd have been far more careful with examining the body of Mallory, as he may have had summit rocks in his pocket.  As far as whether it counts or not, if astronauts had walked on the moon, and been lost on re-entry, would it have counted as the first men on the moon?

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

I've been watching his videos for a while now.  I think he makes an excellent case that Mallory and Irvine probably made the summit, but he's always about going with what the evidence actually says.  I, for one, wish they'd have been far more careful with examining the body of Mallory, as he may have had summit rocks in his pocket.  As far as whether it counts or not, if astronauts had walked on the moon, and been lost on re-entry, would it have counted as the first men on the moon?

Yes.

But remember JFK's great speech: to place men on the moon and return them safely to the earth.

The return trip matters to me, but I sympathize with the desire to give full credit where credit is due.

Criticism, too. With hindsight and a comfortable chair in front of a dual-screen computer, I think I know how AE and FN could have found Howland and achieved their goal of flying around the world near the equator.

Not something I have ever done myself or will ever do, of course.

May all of our halfway heroes rest in peace!