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Amelia Earhart Search Forum => Join the search => Topic started by: John Kada on August 05, 2012, 12:58:48 AM

Title: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: John Kada on August 05, 2012, 12:58:48 AM

That the partial skeleton of a castaway found by Gardner’s first colonists might be the remains of Amelia Earhart has for good reason been the subject of much discussion on this forum. At present however it is not certain that the castaway was in fact Earhart. If not Earhart, the other possibilities are that the castaway was Fred Noonan (although as I recall the bone measurements suggest this is unlikely), an unlucky survivor of the Norwich City wreck, or some other poor soul who wound up stranded on Gardner.

It is this third possibility that I would like forum members to consider. I did a bit of poking around on the internet looking for information about ships or boats that might have been lost in the general vicinity of Gardner in the 20 or so years (see note below) before the castaway’s remains were found and came up with nothing. But given the impressively detailed information dug up by forum contributors about all matters of subjects pertaining to the Niku hypothesis I am wondering if some Forum reader out there might have better luck (or more skill) than I did identifying missing ships or boats from which the castaway could have come from. I note that commercial shipping did ply the waters near Gardner in this period -- besides the Norwich City, there was the Lincoln Ellsworth and the Trongate, for instance. Perhaps large ships other than the Norwich city went missing? Information about small sailing vessels lost at sea in this area would probably be even less likely to have been recorded, but all the same maybe such information is out there somewhere...

This is probably a long shot but given how important a part of the puzzle the castaway’s remains are I think it would be interesting to know about any lost boats or ships that the castaway might plausibly have come from.

I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this query, but I'm sure one of our super-efficient moderators will quickly move it if necessary.
-----
Note: The sextant box found with the castaway’s remains is thought to be an US Navy sextant that was ‘excessed’ after WWI; if this is true than the castaway could have arrived Gardner no more than ~20 year before his/her remains were discovered
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Mark Pearce on August 05, 2012, 08:53:53 AM
John,

You might find this report from 1936 interesting if you haven't seen it already-

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/48160590

The Advertiser, Adelaide July 11, 1936

"Marooned on Pacific Island"

"Smoke signals and man seen from passing ship…"

"SYDNEY, July 10.  Smoke signals from an uninhabited island in the Pacific and the figure of a man racing along the beach have convinced members of the crew of the freighter Port Darwin, which reached Sydney today, that a castaway is marooned there."

"The Port Darwin was passing Moto Oa Island about 300 miles from Tahiti when the smoke signals were seen. The vessel passed about three miles from Motu Oa, but the sea was too rough to permit a boat to be lowered. Through their telescopes the ship's officers saw a man running up and down the beach."

"Captain Hudson, master of the freighter, sent a radio message to Tahiti informing the authorities that a man was on the island. The receipt of the message was acknowledged, and it likely that a schooner would be sent from Tahiti to investigate."

======================

Look over search results for "missing ship" on-
 
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=missing+ship&s=0

Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 05, 2012, 10:31:30 AM
Perhaps large ships other than the Norwich city went missing? Information about small sailing vessels lost at sea in this area would probably be even less likely to have been recorded, but all the same maybe such information is out there somewhere...

I don't want to discourage anyone who finds this an interesting topic to do some research and report their findings here, but it seems to me to be a daunting task with little likelihood of determining the identity of the castaway, one way or another.

There are only two logical possibilities:

1. If the bones belonged to AE or FN, no list of lost boats would be relevant.  The fact that some definite number of souls were lost prior to 1940 in the Pacific from shipwrecks would not preclude two more being added from the loss of the Electra.

2. If the bones belonged to some other victim of misfortune or foul play, no list of missing persons is going to identify the person.  There will always be the possibility that the castaway came from a loss that did not get recorded in materials now available to us.  Without having the bones to test for DNA, there would be no way to associate them with any known victims.

Proving negatives is notoriously difficult (http://www3.canisius.edu/~moleski/proof/provenegs.htm).  In the abstract, I can agree with the thought that it would be nice to show that there could be no source for the bones found in 1940 other than the missing aircraft.  That would provide very strong evidence in favor of the Niku hypothesis.  But to come to that conclusion, one would have to be certain that all missing passengers and crew and all lost vessels were accounted for--but, by hypothesis, we are talking about missing persons.  The reason we all them "missing persons" is that we don't know where they died.  So too, with "ships lost at sea."  With some, of course, "lost" merely means "sunk or shipwrecked," but with others, "lost" means "were sunk or shipwrecked in an unknown location."  It seems to me that there is at least one major news story every year about the survival of people drifting in small boats.  I don't see any way to do such an excellent search of all available records that it would be possible to conclude, "No one else could have reached Niku by accident; it had to be AE or FN whose bones were found there."
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: John Kada on August 05, 2012, 05:56:41 PM
Marty,

I agree with your comment that  proving a negative is very difficult and I didn't intend to suggest that it would be possible to prove that the castaway was from some other lost vessel if one (or more) could be identified. I just  mean to suggest that for the sake of fully exploring the possible alternative explanations for the origin of Gallagher's castaway it would be worth knowing about any other vessels lost in the area over the relevant time frame.

Perhaps this isn't a perfect analogy, but think about the aluminum artifacts found on Niku. The fact that Tighar researchers did due diligence and determined that  aircraft accidents did occur in the Phoenix Islands during WWII  provides useful context to interpreting aluminum artifacts found on Niku. If we didn't know for a fact that such accidents occurred, we might still be prudent and consider the possibility that such accidents occurred and were the source of that Aluminum, but knowing for sure that those accidents occurred does help (me, at least...) to easily place that evidence in proper context.

So, I do think that if someone out there can easily identify other lost vessels, that would be helpful information (Mark Pearce thanks for your comment--I haven't yet checked out the link you provided...)
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Mark Pearce on August 06, 2012, 12:48:15 AM

"...for the sake of fully exploring the possible alternative explanations for the origin of Gallagher's castaway it would be worth knowing about any other vessels lost in the area over the relevant time frame."


Maybe Mr. Corrie [see below] and his four female companions eventually came ashore on Gardner Island after they disappeared in 1915, and the last surivor became Gallagher's castaway.  Could one of the ladies have had a freckle cream jar with her?
 
========================   


The Sydney Morning Herald, Friday 25 February, 1916, page 4

MISSING TRADER.

"Captain J R Handley of the steamer Germania, which arrived from the Gilberts, Nauru, and Solomon Islands yesterday, reported that no news had been received of the trader Mr. Corrie, who disappeared while on a voyage from Maiana to Tarawa in May last, and that it was generally believed throughout the group that he was dead.

"Mr. Corrie, together with his wife, two daughters, and the wife of another trader named Milne, left Maiana for the Government station at Tarawa in May last. The journey was one of about 17 miles, and was being made in a 26 ft sailing boat. The party was never heard of again.

"Captain Handley said that there was a possibility that Mr. Corrie might have been blown out to sea, and might have made for the two Phoenix Islands, which are about 220 miles away. With his long experience he would know the locality of these Islands, and it was possible that he might have made for one of them when he found that he could not reach his destination."
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Mark Pearce on August 07, 2012, 10:00:07 AM
I've come across an intriguing 'account' published in the 'Auckland Star' on October 10, 1924 [page 9].

The story describes the discovery of a “…dilapidated shack… ” that “...told of a probable castaway…” found on Gardner Island by an exploring party in or around the year 1924.

I’ve never seen this bit of information discussed here before.  Is it entirely new? 

Here are short excerpts from the original story- which clearly suggests finding evidence of castaways was not unusual in this region of the Pacific. 
-----------------------------------------------------------

"The Phoenix Group"

"Isolated Pacific Islands"

“Somewhere about six hundred miles to the nor’west of the mandated islands of Samoa are the low-lying coral islands of the Phoenix Group…  Gardner is the most southerly island, and as our ship nosed up to the anchorage, she was greeted by swarms of sharks…  The island, unlike other coral islands of the Pacific, was heavily wooded by tall and stately trees, the timber of which, when polished, closely resembles mahogany.  A dilapidated shack told of a probable castaway…”

[The story goes on to tell of another interesting  discovery on Canton or Mary Island,]

“…The timbers, winch and rusted steel mast of a one time stately ship lay on the beach, and the bleached remains of a human skeleton, housed in an old shack a few yards further inshore, told the tragic story of the unwary mariner.  We buried the remains and mounted a crude cross over the mound."

"So ended our wonderful cruise amongst those wondrous reef-bound Pacific coral islands… all clothed just as nature made them, and marred only by the grim tragedies of those whose ships strayed shoreward.”

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=AS19241010.2.101&srpos=26&e=--1900---1938--50--1----2gardner+island--

Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: john a delsing on August 07, 2012, 10:51:17 AM
Mark,
     Very interesting,,,,,   thanks.
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Chris Johnson on August 07, 2012, 11:36:10 AM
Mark,

not seen this before
Quote
The story describes the discovery of a “…dilapidated shack… ” that “...told of a probable castaway…” found on Gardner Island by an exploring party in or around the year 1924.
but would suggest they may have seen one of the Arundle building and associated it with a casterway?

Now what exactly defines a Shack?
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Mark Pearce on August 07, 2012, 12:24:05 PM
Mark,

not seen this before
Quote
The story describes the discovery of a “…dilapidated shack… ” that “...told of a probable castaway…” found on Gardner Island by an exploring party in or around the year 1924.
but would suggest they may have seen one of the Arundle building and associated it with a casterway?

Now what exactly defines a Shack?

Weren’t the Arundel buildings built close together and didn’t they have corrugated roofs? The writer of this 1924 story seems to have been a critical observer and knew something about the area's history.  In describing Hull and Sydney islands, the writer says- “both Islands are partially cultivated and much of their native crudeness has disappeared,” and about Enderbury  Island- “...the island had once been worked for guano, and tumble down houses still stood…”

The writer seems to have had the ability to recognize the difference between “tumble down houses” and a potential castaway’s “shack.”

I'd think that "...tumble down houses..." would have also described the Arundle buildings rather nicely.
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Chris Johnson on August 07, 2012, 12:38:12 PM
Mark,

begs the question where was this shack as the NC survivors make no mention of it;


I ask what constitutes a 'shack' to stimulated discussion on shacks vs other structures.

Good point ref the Arundle feature.

As I type i wounder if the Arundle workers may have made crude shacks to shelter in from bad weather?
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Mark Pearce on August 07, 2012, 01:27:52 PM
Here is another interesting story about castaways on Gardner Island.
 
Could Gallagher's Castaway have been the '...last to die...', described below?  Makes for a rather intriguing scenario I'd say.
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Auckland Star, December 2, 1929, page 7

Aucklander’s Memories

“Gardner Island is well known to Captain William Ross, Auckland’s veteran mariner, who was ashore there 30 years ago, when he landed Mr. George Ellis, of Auckland, so that a survey might be made with view to establishing a coconut plantation…"

“…Many vessels were wrecked on Gardner Island in the old days, the survivors dying lonely deaths.  Captain Ross found mounds above the graves of sailors when he visited the island 30 years ago, but the skeleton of the last to die was nowhere seen.  Over the whole island there is that brooding spirit of desolation which only uninhabited places have….”

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=AS19291202.2.50&srpos=8&e=-------50--1----0%22gardner+island%22+wreck--

Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Chris Johnson on August 07, 2012, 01:39:02 PM
Shame we don't have any names or date.

British registered ships could be trace via Lloyds of London, what about US and empire (ANZAC/Canadian)?
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: john a delsing on August 07, 2012, 04:11:34 PM
Mark,
    Many members are convinced that the castaway of the seven site has to be Amelia.  To me ( and others ) there are many other possible scenarios that much better explain most, if not all the ‘mysteries’ at the seven site.
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: John Kada on August 07, 2012, 05:03:08 PM
Mark,

You dug up a lot of interesting information!

I can add a little information regarding your first post. A post on geneology research web site (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,343495.10.html) from someone looking for information the missing Mr. Corrie seems to indicate that he and his passengers were never seen again (alive, at least...).

Chris--there seem to be several possible Lloyd's sources: Lloyd's Loss and Casualty Books; Lloyd's Weekly Shipping Index; and Lloyd's Weekly Casualty Reports and maybe Lloyd's Register Wreck Returns. That Lloyd sure was a busy guy... ;)

There is also Hocking's Dictionary of Disasters at Sea, 1842-1962.

I doubt any of these sources would have much about the loss of small boats such as Mr. Corrie's.

John A Delsing-- I don't want to start a long argument on this string, but I feel obligated to point out that we don't even know for sure if the Seven Site is where the Castaway's remains were found. There certainly is suggestive evidence, but if pressed I believe I could even find a remark by Marty cautioning against being too sure about this. I don't think it is a bad idea to make a reasonable effort to flesh out reasonable alternatives.

-----
added comment for John A: I now realize I misunderstood the drift of your comment, so as Emily Litella used to say, never mind...

Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Malcolm McKay on August 07, 2012, 06:18:37 PM
I have thought for some time that the Arundel Settlement area seems to be the least known in the documentation assembled here. The reported fact that the building remains were still noticeable into the period of the Earhart flight suggests that if she had landed on the island this would be the place to look for either her remains or Noonan's. But after all we really have no idea if indeed they landed on the island let alone if they survived, as to who was the last survivor (we only have Betty's contentious notebook for that imagery). It seems to me that the idea that Earhart became the last survivor is just a romantic idea that is conjured up to fit the heroine image. It might well have been Noonan - just a matter of faith rather than fact.

Also there could be any number of castaways or lost island fishermen, washed out to sea, who could have finished up on Gardner to die lonely deaths from thirst. The fact that the skeleton Gallagher sent to be identified is missing just confuses rather than helps the situation, Islander, Earhart or a stray European we simply don't know. Islanders would have the local knowledge to be able to make use of the available food resources but the ever present problem of poor water supplies is the big problem. Islander losses at sea would probably be written off at the time with no adequate search facilities available as just plain natural events. Far too many loose ends and hypotheticals so far.
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Mark Pearce on August 08, 2012, 12:14:12 AM
Richie Conroy has identified a likely location for the Arundel settlement- with the assistance of the report written in 1929 by J. Thomas, First Officer of the Norwich City.  [Go to Richie’s post of June 28 to see a good aerial photo.]
   
From Thomas’s report-

“…A few coconut palms were found around the NW entrance to the lagoon from which we daily gathered the nuts, but these were not of a very good standard and like everything else which grew on the island, appeared to be in a state of decay. Near the palms we found two disused galvanised roofed huts and a large water tank, all of which were in a state of collapse, but which indicated to us that the island had at one time been inhabited, most probably with a view of growing coconuts, but that this had not proved to be very profitable and had been abandoned..."
   
in the black square is were i think the huts with galvanized roofs were according to this report

here is link to Norwich city report of T. Thomas

http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Norwich_City/NorwichCity5.html

John K.--  Very interesting to see that genological website with more info on Robert Corrie, and to learn from 'Silou' [Corrie?]- "...There is a huge extended Corrie family in Kiribati." 

John A. D.--  Yes, "...many members are convinced that the castaway of the seven site has to be Amelia."  I tend to believe all castaways on the island arrived there in a more traditional way- boat/ship/raft.
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: John Kada on August 09, 2012, 08:43:51 PM

“…Many vessels were wrecked on Gardner Island in the old days, the survivors dying lonely deaths.  Captain Ross found mounds above the graves of sailors when he visited the island 30 years ago, but the skeleton of the last to die was nowhere seen.  Over the whole island there is that brooding spirit of desolation which only uninhabited places have….”

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=AS19291202.2.50&srpos=8&e=-------50--1----0%22gardner+island%22+wreck--

The Too Many Bones section of the Evaluating Emily report (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/15_Carpentersdaught/15_Evaluation.html) tries to make sense of Emily Sikuli's recollection that the bones of about 10 people were found near the wreck of the Norwich City. In this discussion we are told that Gallagher's clerk, Baura Tikana, marked a spot near the Norwich City wreck where bones were found by the colonists clearing land near the shipwreck. Those bones were presumably those of the three Norwich City crewman buried while the survivors of the wreck were awaiting rescue.

Baura Tikana also indicated that "other bones" were found on the island however "he could only circle the entire southeast portion of the island" to indicate where those bones were found. Perhaps Baura Tikana was thinking of castaway reported by Gallagher but he couldn't remember the exact location where these bones were found and thus circled a large area. On the other hand,  Captain Ross's recollection of seeing the several grave sites on his visits to Gardner ca. 1900 suggests that maybe by 'other bones' Baura Tikana meant the bones of several other people, found at various locations around the southeast of the island and thus he couldn't mark a specific location on the map.

This interpretation is admittedly a far out one--why would we have no report of these other castaways from Gallagher?...but I couldn't resist offering it as improbable as it seems.

Speculating sure is fun, isn't it?...

I should also mention here that strangely enough Emily Sikuli's recollections that remains of about 10 people were seen by the early colonists is corroborated by the statements made by John William Jones, an employee of Burns-Phillips, when he was interviewed on Hull Island in 1937 by Itasca personnel (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/ResearchPapers/Phoenixislands.html). Jones said that the remains of 9 sailors from the Norwich City 'now lie on the beach' there (after being dug up by the non-existant pigs of Gardner Island...).  I have always thought that Emily simply had a faulty recollection of decades-old events, but what Jones told the Itasca in 1937 does sort of match what Emily told Tighar many years later. Hard to believe, and yet quite a coincidence if there was no underlying kernel of truth.

Note added after original post: Jones didn't say where on the the island the bones of 9 sailors were seen, so I suppose they could be the Captain Ross castaways, uncovered and conveniently on display on the beach for Jones' visit to Gardner.

Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: John Kada on August 19, 2012, 08:24:24 PM
John T. Arundel, whose company briefly tried to make a go of a coconut plantation on Gardner in the 1890s, gave a lecture in which he talked about McKean and possibly other islands in the Phoenix group at the Geographical Society of the Pacific, in San Francisco on March 3, 1885. Does anyone have a transcript of this lecture? It would be interesting to know what if anything Arundel had to say about castaways on Gardner--or anything else he might have had to say about Gardner, for that matter.

When the Bushnell was surveying the Phoenix Islands in 1939, they noted the remains of a wrecked schooner on the southeastern part of McKean Island (see page 20 in part 4 of the   Bushnell Survey (http://tighar.org/wiki/USS_Bushnell_Survey_%281939%29) ). Nothing is said in that reference about when this ship might have been wrecked. Except for the period from 1859 to 1870 when the island was mined for guano and aid would presumably have been available, remaining on McKean would have been a death sentence for any sailors who survived the wreck; if they had a useable lifeboat they would’ve headed for a populated island, or at least tried to find a more hospitable uninhabited island. It would be interesting to know when the schooner was wrecked and perhaps Arundel’s lecture would tell us.

One other potentially interesting source of information about the pre-PISS period in the Phoenix Islands might be a newspaper titled the Honolulu Friend. The Bushnell Survey cites this paper as a good source of information on the american guano mining period there.

Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: John Kada on August 19, 2012, 10:40:30 PM
It looks like Arundel's lecture was eventually published in the New Zealand Herald (first reference). The second reference might have something interesting about Gardner during Arundel's time. I found these references at: http://www.trussel.com/kir/gilbiba.htm.

Arundel, John T. 1890. The Phoenix Group and other islands of the Pacific. in: New Zealand Herald, 5.7.1890, 12.7.1890. (Read before the Geographical Society of the Pacific... San Francisco, 3rd March, 1885...).

Arundel, John T. 1897-1912. Correspondence 1897-1912. 1 microfilm reel 35 mm, PMB 493 (The correspondence is chiefly with Lord Stanmore (Stanmore, Arthur Hamilton-Gordon, 1st baron [1829-1912]) of the Pacific Islands Company Ltd, and later the Pacific Phosphate Company Ltd, of which Arundel was the vice-chairman.) (Microfilm copy of original held by Department of Pacific and Southeast Asian History, Research School of Pacific Studies, The Australian National University, Canberra.). Pacific Manuscripts Bureau, Canberra. ANL.
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Matt Revington on August 23, 2012, 09:11:20 PM
There was another ship at Gardner just a few months before AE's flight

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19370224.2.131&srpos=14&e=-------10--11----2gardner+island--

The same ship had also been there a couple years earlier

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=AS19350417.2.108&srpos=18&e=-------10--11----2gardner+island--
Although this isn't a lost ship or cast away tale this post is more appropriate here than where I originally posted it
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Bruce Thomas on August 24, 2012, 05:00:24 AM
There was another ship at Gardner just a few months before AE's flight

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19370224.2.131&srpos=14&e=-------10--11----2gardner+island--

The same ship had also been there a couple years earlier

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=AS19350417.2.108&srpos=18&e=-------10--11----2gardner+island--
Although this isn't a lost ship or cast away tale this post is more appropriate here than where I originally posted it

Yes, the schooner HMS Leith, a warship of the British Navy, paid visits to the various Phoenix Islands during the time just before the AE/FN disappearance, as part of the diplomatic dance between Great Britain and the United States that was arising over establishing airways and intermediate landing spots for air commerce in between the United States and Australia/New Zealand.  I wrote about those visits in a Forum post about 18 months ago (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,302.msg2841.html#msg2841), in response to Chris Johnson's topic "Fred! Where are we?".
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 24, 2012, 08:40:37 AM
... I wrote about those visits in a Forum post about 18 months ago (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,302.msg2841.html#msg2841), in response to Chris Johnson's topic "Fred! Where are we?".

I started an article in the Ameliapedia in June of this year to track accounts of "Visitors to Nikumaroro." (http://tighar.org/wiki/Visitors_to_Nikumaroro)  I've added links to the two articles in this thread, but don't presently don't have the peace of mind needed to read them carefully and add them to the list.
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Matt Revington on August 24, 2012, 10:47:05 AM
A quick search found that this tour company running trips to Niku had been mentioned this spring by a couple of posters but it could be
added to your island visitors page Marty
http://www.pacific-expeditions.com/voyage_options/2012_dates.asp
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 24, 2012, 11:38:44 AM
A quick search found that this tour company running trips to Niku had been mentioned this spring by a couple of posters but it could be
added to your island visitors page Marty
http://www.pacific-expeditions.com/voyage_options/2012_dates.asp (http://www.pacific-expeditions.com/voyage_options/2012_dates.asp)

Thanks, Matt.

All I can do right now is to put it under the "needs work" section.

There has to be some kind of chronological order imposed.  What is of interest is visitors (vs. inhabitants) who might have left things before they were found the the British or by TIGHAR.  Looks like those Niku expeditions were for 2011-2012.
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Matt Revington on August 24, 2012, 11:53:15 AM
A quick search found that this tour company running trips to Niku had been mentioned this spring by a couple of posters but it could be
added to your island visitors page Marty
http://www.pacific-expeditions.com/voyage_options/2012_dates.asp (http://www.pacific-expeditions.com/voyage_options/2012_dates.asp)

Thanks, Matt.

All I can do right now is to put it under the "needs work" section.

There has to be some kind of chronological order imposed.  What is of interest is visitors (vs. inhabitants) who might have left things before they were found the the British or by TIGHAR.  Looks like those Niku expeditions were for 2011-2012.

Yes pre 1937 visitors are the most relevant but uncontrolled access to what from our point of view is an archeological site is troubling, I'd hate to think what a visitor with a twisted sense of humour could leave on the island to mislead future investigations, ie vintage flying goggles etc.  The more people that wander through the island the more tainted  any future finds would be.  Of course this is a selfish view and one can't expect Kiribati to preserve the island indefinitely just for Tighar.
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Alan Harris on August 25, 2012, 01:58:31 PM
. . . the "well-known island identity" was the Samoa Shipping and Trading Company, Ltd. who were issued an Occupation License for a term of 87 years on January 1st, 1914.  The manager of the company, Captain Allen, "made several visits to Gardner for the purpose of cutting and loading timber for ship repairing but no other use was made of the island."

Unless we're talking about a very small quantity of timber being cut and loaded into a very small boat, it would seem that CPT Allen would have had sizable work crews occupied on Niku for several days per visit.  This is another possible source of artifacts, fire remains, bird/turtle bones, etc. in the post-1914 time period.  I have searched the forum and Ameliapedia and found very little about these "timbering" visits, but of course that may reveal only poor search technique on my part.
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Chris Johnson on August 25, 2012, 02:09:28 PM
Timber cutting visits!

Kanawa is a good 'hard wood' tree and certainly good for shp repairs.

Buka and Ren are softer wood, less likly candidates?

If Kanawa was the tree of choice puts them in the vacinity of Kanawa Point and The Seven Site unless these areas account for whats left on the islands from those expeditions.
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 25, 2012, 05:11:29 PM
Unless we're talking about a very small quantity of timber being cut and loaded into a very small boat, it would seem that CPT Allen would have had sizable work crews occupied on Niku for several days per visit.  This is another possible source of artifacts, fire remains, bird/turtle bones, etc. in the post-1914 time period.  I have searched the forum and Ameliapedia and found very little about these "timbering" visits, but of course that may reveal only poor search technique on my part.

Nope--you're right.

There is very little about the timbering visits.

I've only made a little note about them recently in "Visitors to Nikumaroro." (http://tighar.org/wiki/Visitors_to_Nikumaroro) 

If the question came up in the old Forum, it's not something I paid any attention to. (I checked--I don't see anything there, either.)

Not everything Ric or other researchers know has been transferred to the website.  The stuff that's here--which, apparently, discourages some newcomers--is just part of the story.

I note that there is some misrepresentation going on.  A few folks seem to think that TIGHAR's view is that "no one visited the island after Arundel and before 1937."  I don't think that proposition can be found in any of TIGHAR's official position papers.
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: Alan Harris on August 25, 2012, 05:34:42 PM
Marty, thank you for taking the time to check and reply, it relieves my anxiety that 52 people would reply to say that I had simply missed an obvious article or document giving more detail on this topic!   :)
Title: Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939
Post by: John Kada on September 29, 2012, 08:06:34 AM

"...for the sake of fully exploring the possible alternative explanations for the origin of Gallagher's castaway it would be worth knowing about any other vessels lost in the area over the relevant time frame."


Maybe Mr. Corrie [see below] and his four female companions eventually came ashore on Gardner Island after they disappeared in 1915, and the last surivor became Gallagher's castaway.  Could one of the ladies have had a freckle cream jar with her?
 
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The Sydney Morning Herald, Friday 25 February, 1916, page 4

MISSING TRADER.

"Captain J R Handley of the steamer Germania, which arrived from the Gilberts, Nauru, and Solomon Islands yesterday, reported that no news had been received of the trader Mr. Corrie, who disappeared while on a voyage from Maiana to Tarawa in May last, and that it was generally believed throughout the group that he was dead.

"Mr. Corrie, together with his wife, two daughters, and the wife of another trader named Milne, left Maiana for the Government station at Tarawa in May last. The journey was one of about 17 miles, and was being made in a 26 ft sailing boat. The party was never heard of again.

"Captain Handley said that there was a possibility that Mr. Corrie might have been blown out to sea, and might have made for the two Phoenix Islands, which are about 220 miles away. With his long experience he would know the locality of these Islands, and it was possible that he might have made for one of them when he found that he could not reach his destination."

Mark- when I first read your post I was of the mind that the sextant box N.O. number was of WWI vintage, ruling out the Corries. But the torpedo boat watch N.O. numbers (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,183.msg20260.html#msg20260) are suggesting the sextant box may be well older than WWI. So maybe we should be asking ourselves whether the Corrie women, or Mrs. Milne, their unfortunate guest passenger, had freckles...