TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => Join the search => Topic started by: richie conroy on December 05, 2011, 01:06:20 PM
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did tighar ever find out were the sextant box was from, or who made it ,an if it was navy issued ?
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did tighar ever find out were the sextant box was from, or who made it ,an if it was navy issued ?
I'm pretty sure that this article on the wiki (http://tighar.org/wiki/Sextant) answers all those questions.
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thx martin
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One thing that I have always thought interesting is that a sextant box was found on the island with that skeleton but no sextant was located. That seems a bit odd doesn't it? I mean, if it were just a box and the sextant was lost when the became a castaway, it seems that the person would either use it to hold items like food or water or it might as well be burned if it served no purpose. Even if this was some castaway and not Amelia, it makes no sense to salvage and hold on to an empty box and do nothing with it. Perhaps it did have a purpose but I have not heard any mention of it when the skeleton was found.
Another possibility is that it actually did hold a sextant and some other person walked away with it attempting to find their way back to civilization. Assuming that it was Noonan that could have walked away with it, and say attempted to build a makeshift raft, could the sextant have been used effectively to sail to a reachable destination assuming that he had no maps? Could you realistically survive a journey long with enough food and water to sail East until you hit land? I suppose you would be dead either way and you might as well go for it. The only probably I see with that theory is that he did not carve something in to a tree or arrange stones and sea shells to spell their initials out to let people know for certain that they did survived.
Another problem with the survivor theory is why not take a box design to hold your sextant?
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The box, when examined in Fiji, was said to have been used "latterly merely as a receptacle." (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Bones_Chronology5.html) At least one small element of the sextant was apparently present - "Only part discovered was thrown away by finder but was probably part of an inverting eyepiece. (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Bones_Chronology4.html)"
This suggests to me that the sextant itself - heavy and of no use if you don't know how to use it - was discarded. (Thus reinforcing the idea that FN never made it to the Seven Site.) The box and the part of an inverting eyepiece were the elements that had some utility to the castaway.
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Do the coconut crabs try to pry open boxes that are about the size of coconuts?
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Do the coconut crabs try to pry open boxes that are about the size of coconuts?
Arn't they known also as robber Crabs? Bet the sextants down a burrow ;D
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Do the coconut crabs try to pry open boxes that are about the size of coconuts?
I don't know. I've never personally seen them try to pry anything open.
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Ric says
This suggests to me that the sextant itself - heavy and of no use if you don't know how to use it - was discarded. (Thus reinforcing the idea that FN never made it to the Seven Site.) The box and the part of an inverting eyepiece were the elements that had some utility to the castaway.
I've highlighted two parts as yes the sextant would be heavy so why carry it around and once you've got your 'navigational shot' then it is no use so why not just stash it away somewhere on the island so you can go back to it later if you need it?
The missing sextant (Freds Tool of the trade) seems to me make people assume that Fred didn't make it to the seven site.
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If there is food involved they would give it a good try.
(http://tighar.org/aw/mediawiki/images/2/21/Birgus_latro_01.jpg)
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We're thinking of Coconut Crab Wrestling as a fund raising event. Whadya think?
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Is that a real crab on that garbage bin???? If yes then put me down as a spectator with a seat high in the stands.
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Wikipedia sez the Coconut crabs can live 60 years. The big ones are the old ones.
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It got to be old for a reason. I still wouldn't wrestle with it.
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I need a bigger grill......and a LOT of butter.
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Wikipedia sez the Coconut crabs can live 60 years. The big ones are the old ones.
Wouldn't want to mess with 'em because they become pretty crabby in their old age.
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the reason i asked about the sextant is because in the itasca radio logs, amelia mentioned they had dropped to a 1000 feet.
an wondered if that was because the sextant numbers 3500
to withstand, Accurate readings for altitudes up to 3500 feet above water
an that's maybe wat them numbers meant ::)
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also on the video i posted in "odds of spotting a survivor, reply 134" they are takeing contents out off boxes to make them lighter so eould'nt they have done that with sextant ?
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the reason i asked about the sextant is because in the itasca radio logs, amelia mentioned they had dropped to a 1000 feet.
an wondered if that was because the sextant numbers 3500
to withstand, Accurate readings for altitudes up to 3500 feet above water
an that's maybe wat them numbers meant ::)
No.
gl
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can u take a few min's out to explain to me why not ?
i ask because if u break down 1 of the wiki entry's
Brandis 3826 4603 eBay no Brass plaque on box: "248 US Navy 101009"
if u do it with the numbers, 3500 1542 u get 055 an their is lots ov sextant boxes replica to the one found on gardner an they have Accurate readings for altitudes up to 3500 feet above water so maybe it was writ on so u can just take it off shelf in what ever store room, without haveing to open case to check the limitation ov the sextant
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Richie, forget it. The 3500 is simply the chronological "maker's number." It's like a serial number. The 1542 is the Naval Observatory number. It's like an inventory number. The numbers have nothing to do with altitude.
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Wouldn't want to mess with 'em because they become pretty crabby in their old age.
Phew!!!! ;D
....tb
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is it possible the sextant gallagher had in his personal possesion inventory, was in fact the sextant out the box found on gardner ?
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is it possible the sextant gallagher had in his personal possesion inventory, was in fact the sextant out the box found on gardner ?
That has been suggested. I personally doubt it. How would we ever know?
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is it possible the sextant gallagher had in his personal possesion inventory, was in fact the sextant out the box found on gardner ?
That has been suggested. I personally doubt it. How would we ever know?
He did have a pilots licence so would make sense that he may have had a sextant. He also seems to have had a compas as well so it is more than lickly that he would have navigational aids.
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He did have a pilots licence so would make sense that he may have had a sextant. He also seems to have had a compas as well so it is more than lickly that he would have navigational aids.
Most pilots do not now, and did not then, own a sextant. But Gallagher had been through an extensive training regimen at Cambridge University to prepare him for service as a Colonial Service Officer in the Pacific. It wouldn't surprise me if that training included some basic celestial navigation.
My main reason for doubting that he would take a sextant found with the bones and keep it for himself is my impression of his character.
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He may also have needed both the sextant and compass for inter island travel.
As an aside I have recently been wondering what an islander who found a sextant would have done, tell the magistrate? throw it away because of the body? keep it themselves? It does appear that the islanders wern't always forthcoming to the authorities about stuff that they had seen or found. If the plane wreck was still on the reefs edge and the settlers knew, whay did they not tell Gallagher?
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If the plane wreck was still on the reefs edge and the settlers knew, why did they not tell Gallagher?
Good question and, of course, we don't know the answer - but in island folklore the story of the bones being found and the legend of the downed plane are completely separate. There seems to have been no connection made between the two unusual events at opposite ends of the atoll.
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He may also have needed both the sextant and compass for inter island travel.
As an aside I have recently been wondering what an islander who found a sextant would have done, tell the magistrate? throw it away because of the body? keep it themselves? It does appear that the islanders wern't always forthcoming to the authorities about stuff that they had seen or found. If the plane wreck was still on the reefs edge and the settlers knew, whay did they not tell Gallagher?
I'm intrigued by this too Chris. The plane lands on the reef flat and after 5 days of radio transmission the messages stop. 40 hours after that there is a aerial search by three aircraft and there is no report of plane wreckage. Let's assume the surf action/weather wrecked the plane in that 40 hours. Let's assume it took the whole week to take an aircraft and wreck it so thoroughly that the wreckage couldn't be identified as a plane by aerial searchers. Once the plane is wrecked the surf action doesn't stop. It continues to pound the wreckage. For months before anyone comes to settle the island. So how is it that there was anything left for the natives to identify as a plane wreck?
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The last credible post-loss message was heard at 8:18 PM Gardner time on July 7. The Colorado planes were over the island roughly 36 hours later. The Electra's ability to remain intact on the reef depended upon the height of high tide, the amount of wave action on the reef, and the direction of the wave action on the reef. Those factors were not constant. During the week July 2 to July 9 each high tide was getting successively higher. On July 2 the maximum water depth on the reef in the area where we think the plane was parked (assuming a calm sea) was just under half a meter. At high tide the evening of July 7 (about two hours before the last credible transmission was heard) the water level was a bit over .7 meter - again assuming a calm sea. At the next high tide, the water level was nearly .9 meter. We don't know what the sea conditions were but the combination of significantly higher high tide water levels and rougher seas could mean a far more hazardous situation for the plane. We also know that, at times, ocean waves refract around the northwest tip of the island resulting in a southwesterly flow of water over the reef in the area where we think the plane was parked. Surf coming from that direction would drive an object on the reef toward the edge. In short, it doesn't take anything more than normal events for the airplane to have survived relativlkey undisturbed for the first several days and then, quite rapidly, be driven over the reef edge.
A wreck hung up in relatively shallow water in the surf zone could easily be hidden from view on a day like the one pictured in the photo taken during the Colorado overflight but easily visible to someone fishing on the reef edge at low tide on a calm day.
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would it be poss to find out if Gallagher sextant was in a box or not, or if his sextant was similiar to the one that was carried in the box found ?
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would it be poss to find out if Gallagher sextant was in a box or not, or if his sextant was similiar to the one that was carried in the box found ?
Richie, you have access to the same research material we do.
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true, but that research is only available due to the great work of Tighar, so am sure us as a group should be able to gather more facts i.e relating to Gallagher sextant
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would it be poss to find out if Gallagher sextant was in a box or not, or if his sextant was similiar to the one that was carried in the box found ?
Gallagher's last effects are listed here http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Gallagereffects.html (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Gallagereffects.html) Near end of list they list "1 sextant" and in parenthesis following that it says "on "Viti". There is not brand name, serial number, nor box listed and as detailed as the effects list was if it was boxed I believe it would say something in the manner of "1 sextant in wood case".
BTW: Viti is a 1939 Vice-Regal Yacht for Sir Harry Luke http://www.nzmaritime.co.nz/viti.htm (http://www.nzmaritime.co.nz/viti.htm) and also the ship that Gallagher was aboard when he became what ended up as "fatally" ill; which raises the question ??? what happened to the sextant?
LTM,
Don
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which raises the question ??? what happened to the sextant?
As I recall (too lazy to double check) MacPherson gave it to the captain of the Viti.
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As I recall (too lazy to double check) MacPherson gave it to the captain of the Viti.
Thanx Ric...
LTM,
Don
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if u look at no 22 in list it says 2 wooden boxes so 1 of them cud be a sextant box, we will never know ::)