TIGHAR

Forum FAQs, maintenance, how-to help => Forum FAQs and problem solving => Topic started by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on April 02, 2011, 09:33:29 AM

Title: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on April 02, 2011, 09:33:29 AM
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: dave burrell on August 21, 2012, 11:31:13 PM
Love the site and reading the old material.
Lots of reading Tighar tracks in the early 90's, it could take a year.
It seems the Hypothesis has changed over the years, so as a new reader I am asking why to
any old timers.
For years every issue seemed to say whatever is left of the wreckage is in the lagoon
or buried in the inlet. There was NEVER mention of deep water.
Now the theory is that whatever remains is located in deep water off the North shore.
Why the change? Was the Lagoon ever sonar searched and eliminated?

And whatever became of that picture of the Electra wreckage, known then as the "wreck photo"  and Jeff did all the analysis on? Seemed like that was talked about a lot and kind of forgotten. ( Marty I searched I swear)
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Malcolm McKay on August 21, 2012, 11:47:12 PM

And whatever became of that picture of the Electra wreckage, known then as the "wreck photo"  and Jeff did all the analysis on? Seemed like that was talked about a lot and kind of forgotten. ( Marty I searched I swear)

Wreck photo and article -

http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/10_Wreckphoto/10_Wreckphoto.html

The lagoon was searched, somewhere Andrew has explained the process.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Shannon Council on August 22, 2012, 01:01:11 AM
And whatever became of that picture of the Electra wreckage, known then as the "wreck photo"  and Jeff did all the analysis on? Seemed like that was talked about a lot and kind of forgotten. ( Marty I searched I swear)

I'm not Marty, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
The photo was determined to be a Tachikawa KI-54 Hickory trainer. (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/55_WreckPhotoResolved/55_WreckPhotoResolved.htm)


Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: dave burrell on August 22, 2012, 06:50:09 AM
Thanks for the article on the wrecked plane picture. It gets confusing because I had read the previous release that malcolm linked, in it, it states that tighar was positive it is a model 10 lockheed. That the Ki 54 had been eliminated. Which if it was a model 10 left a high probability this was THE plane. So then that was reversed and it was decided it was a KI 54? Lots of positive its not a Japanese plane, definitely a Lockheed model 10, then its not a Lockheed. Back and forth. All by the same analyst?

So where can I find the results of the inlet and lagoon search? If anyone knows of course. It was for 15 years the hypothesis, then seems in 2000 around that time it was not talked about anymore. So maybe 2000 was the year all the testing of the lagoon and inlet was done? Was anything found in the lagoon?
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 22, 2012, 09:29:42 AM
Thanks for the article on the wrecked plane picture. It gets confusing because I had read the previous release that malcolm linked, in it, it states that tighar was positive it is a model 10 lockheed. That the Ki 54 had been eliminated. Which if it was a model 10 left a high probability this was THE plane. So then that was reversed and it was decided it was a KI 54? Lots of positive its not a Japanese plane, definitely a Lockheed model 10, then its not a Lockheed. Back and forth. All by the same analyst?

The answer to your questions can be found by reading the Forum Archives (1998-2009) (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Forum/AESForum.html).

You can see for yourself how TIGHAR's view evolved.

Quote
So where can I find the results of the inlet and lagoon search? If anyone knows of course. It was for 15 years the hypothesis, then seems in 2000 around that time it was not talked about anymore. So maybe 2000 was the year all the testing of the lagoon and inlet was done? Was anything found in the lagoon?

Do you suppose that  reviewing a history of the expeditions (http://tighar.org/wiki/Expeditions) might satisfy your curiosity?  Or perhaps you would be interested in a summary of those expeditions from the standpoint of archaeology (http://tighar.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Nikumaroro)?
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: dave burrell on August 22, 2012, 09:46:50 AM
I read for hours last night to see if the lagoon was searched, for how long, and was anything found.
I could find no information on what was done and results.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 22, 2012, 10:06:29 AM
I read for hours last night to see if the lagoon was searched, for how long, and was anything found.
I could find no information on what was done and results.

If you click on the links below, and read those pages carefully, you may find answers to your questions.

What I mean by a "link" is the sequence of words that appear in bold blue letters.  Such "links" will also be underlined when you run your mouse pointer over them.

What I mean by "click" is to place your mouse over those words and depress the left button on a PC mouse or the only button on an Apple mouse.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: dave burrell on August 22, 2012, 10:22:46 AM
Thanks Marty those are helpful. But I was asking if any other forum members, not necessarily you or tighar, could give their summation in a paragraph or two.
By giving links to every question asked, it frequently overwhelms a new reader. The full scope of the information asked may not even be contained in the links.
For instance clicking on summation of lagoon search it says two divers were pulled on skimboards through the lagoon.
So it is easy to miss the scope of 25 years of research unless it seems, I want to read  months of links and expedition reports. Even the summaries don't necessarily contain the pertinent info asked.

I thought perhaps another willing forum member could quickly summarize the search efforts in a particular area. Just their opinion of course, not an official stance by the forum administration.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: dave burrell on August 22, 2012, 10:26:02 AM
Thanks Matt, exactly what I was asking.  :)
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: James G. Stoveken on August 22, 2012, 12:56:30 PM
By giving links to every question asked, it frequently overwhelms a new reader.

On the other hand Dave, by new readers asking the same questions over and over, it frequently overwhelms the old forumites.   :)

 

Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 22, 2012, 12:57:27 PM
Thanks Marty those are helpful. But I was asking if any other forum members, not necessarily you or tighar, could give their summation in a paragraph or two.

Yes, of course that is easier than learning how to search the site for yourself.

Quote
By giving links to every question asked, it frequently overwhelms a new reader. The full scope of the information asked may not even be contained in the links.
For instance clicking on summation of lagoon search it says two divers were pulled on skimboards through the lagoon.
So it is easy to miss the scope of 25 years of research unless it seems, I want to read  months of links and expedition reports. Even the summaries don't necessarily contain the pertinent info asked.

Agreed.  But it turns out that what you wanted was in the Forum already.  My goal is to teach people how to fish so that they can become informed participants.

The first page of Google results (http://www.google.com/cse?cx=009580785602718212762%3Anmcmqnbv5de&ie=UTF-8&q=lagoon&sa=Search&siteurl=www-open-opensocial.googleusercontent.com%2Fgadgets%2Fifr%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252Fcoop%252Fapi%252F009580785602718212762%252Fcse%252Fnmcmqnbv5de%252Fgadget%26container%3Dopen%26view%3Dhome%26lang%3Dall%26country%3DALL%26debug%3D&ref=tighar.org%2Fnews%2Fhelp%2F82-how-do-i-search-tigharorg&ss=663j93339j6#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=lagoon&gsc.page=1), using "lagoon" as the search term, from the TIGHAR-specific search box (http://tighar.org/news/help/82-how-do-i-search-tigharorg) turns up both the thread in which Andrew and Walt gave the kind of summary you were looking for as well as this thread.

Quote
I thought perhaps another willing forum member could quickly summarize the search efforts in a particular area. Just their opinion of course, not an official stance by the forum administration.

I would like, if possible, to encourage people to learn how to find their way around the site so that the Forum is not stuffed with questions that have already been asked and answered in the Forum or elsewhere.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 22, 2012, 01:01:17 PM
By giving links to every question asked, it frequently overwhelms a new reader.

On the other hand Dave, by new readers asking the same questions over and over, it frequently overwhelms the old forumites.   :)

Exactly.  There are a very large number of "old forumites" who made substantial contributions to TIGHAR's work who do not participate here.  I suspect, though I cannot prove, that some of them may have grown tired of repetitious questions.  Some, too, were irked by the change from the e-mail format to a page-based format.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: James G. Stoveken on August 22, 2012, 01:28:37 PM
Quote
The photo was determined to be a Tachikawa KI-54 Hickory trainer.

Well, maybe.  Maybe not... (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,130.msg537.html#msg537)
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: dave burrell on August 22, 2012, 04:59:30 PM
By giving links to every question asked, it frequently overwhelms a new reader.

On the other hand Dave, by new readers asking the same questions over and over, it frequently overwhelms the old forumites.   :)

Exactly.  There are a very large number of "old forumites" who made substantial contributions to TIGHAR's work who do not participate here.  I suspect, though I cannot prove, that some of them may have grown tired of repetitious questions.  Some, too, were irked by the change from the e-mail format to a page-based format.

Or maybe Marty they got tired of being told to "look it up". And wanted some give and take.
It doesn't overwhelm any old timers to hear a newbies question.. Just ignore the question. It isn't like some forums where there is a new question every 2 minutes.
 I belong to several forums where I am the old timer. I get the same questions again and again. And Our topics aren't as detailed as this place. This is a maze.
But I answer the questions on my forums, if I feel like it, or I ignore the newbies and let someone else answer it.
I have never seen a forum where it wasn't meant to be fun and educational.
If a newbie asks a questions that is obvious, like what kind of plane did they have, yes, roll your eyes and give them a link.
But here, No matter what is asked, there is a moderator there telling you to look it up.
I don't get it.
Forums are supposed to draw new members, and new money, and new blood, and have fun.
Not guard state secrets or for old timers to pat each other on the back.
Being rude to new members, or making it not fun, is arrogant,  sorry, it is.


 
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: dave burrell on August 22, 2012, 05:09:55 PM
Amelia's lively hood, depended on the Electra making the round the world flight, The cost of fishing the Electra out the lagoon is not worth thinking about, MY opinion is if they could land safely on reef, they had a chance of refueling an taking to the air again to howland.

Also if they landed in lagoon they would have no chance of radioing for help, So i think the pluses of a reef landing out weigh the lagoon landing theory.

No Ritchie I wasn't talking about a lagoon landing. For years, read the old Tighar tracks, THE theory here, said the wreckage broke up on the beach and eventually landed inside the lagoon and entrance to it. There was never a mention of Deep water.
So I wanted to know if it had been sonar searched, or not.
Without digging through mountains of Daily expedition reports.
Matt answered it well.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 22, 2012, 06:41:01 PM
Or maybe Marty they got tired of being told to "look it up". And wanted some give and take.

The "old forumites" of whom I speak were not being told to consult readily available resources.  They were they ones who produced those resources.

Quote
It doesn't overwhelm any old timers to hear a newbies question.

As an relatively old timer (I began paying dues in 2000 after reading the website twice), I beg to differ.

Quote
But here, No matter what is asked, there is a moderator there telling you to look it up.
I don't get it.

Yes, I see that.

Quote
Forums are supposed to draw new members, and new money, and new blood, and have fun.
Not guard state secrets or for old timers to pat each other on the back.

Material published on the website hardly counts as a "state secret" in my book.

Quote
Being rude to new members, or making it not fun, is arrogant,  sorry, it is.

Ah.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Matt Revington on August 22, 2012, 08:10:10 PM
A bit of thread drift going on here, having been a bit of a lurker here off and on for years I can appreciate both sides, maybe a newbie question thread could be established so that individuals could be brought up to speed in a friendly way without clogging the main threads.  Although I appreciate ameliapedia and the other documents here they are still daunting and simple helpful summations for new member might make this forum more productive
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 22, 2012, 10:37:36 PM
A bit of thread drift going on here, having been a bit of a lurker here off and on for years I can appreciate both sides, maybe a newbie question thread could be established so that individuals could be brought up to speed in a friendly way without clogging the main threads.

Perhaps.  I'm not as optimistic as you are about persuading newcomers to read such threads or confine their questions to them.

Quote
Although I appreciate ameliapedia and the other documents here they are still daunting and simple helpful summations for new member might make this forum more productive

How many times do you want us to give "simple helpful summations"?  There are 17687 posts in 698 topics by 791 members in the Forum at the present time.  Do you think multiplying posts on the same topic is a way to make the Forum more intelligible to or fun for newcomers?

Here is the kind of question I love to answer: "I searched for information on ____________.  I found [link to an article, document, or post].  I don't understand or agree with [some aspect of that material]."

Here is the kind of question I don't love to answer: "Could someone who has done the work feed me the answers to my question?  It's hard to figure things out for myself.  There are too many words on this website."
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: dave burrell on August 22, 2012, 10:47:38 PM
Marty I dont understand your problem with people asking questions. Even dumb questions.
Even lazy questions. (which most are not, I think you have so much knowledge you don't realize how daunting this place is even with hours of reading)
It's not like it's your job to answer every question is it?
Then I would say, yes, Marty is overworked answering stupid, lazy questions.
Questions are for the community, not just you.
If it's a dumb question, it will die and nobody will respond.
Why take it upon yourself to answer the dumb stuff and the stuff you feel is worthy?
Drink a beer and relax and let the newbies have fun.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 23, 2012, 05:49:49 AM
Marty I don't understand your problem with people asking questions.

I see that you don't understand.

Ah, well.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 23, 2012, 10:00:59 AM
This thread is derived from a classic Usenet document, How To Ask Questions The Smart Way  (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html)by Eric Steven Raymond and Rick Moen.

Translations (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#translations)

Disclaimer (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#disclaimer)
Introduction (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro)
Before You Ask (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before)
When You Ask (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#asking)
How To Interpret Answers (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#answers)
On Not Reacting Like A Loser (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#not_losing)
Questions Not To Ask (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#classic)
Good and Bad Questions (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#examples)
If You Can't Get An Answer (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#idp30004672)
How To Answer Questions in a Helpful Way (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#idp30009456)
Related Resources (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#idp30019472)
Acknowledgements (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#idp30022624)
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: C.W. Herndon on August 23, 2012, 10:52:50 AM
Very informative. Thanks Marty! :)
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on August 23, 2012, 11:33:55 AM
... maybe a newbie question thread could be established so that individuals could be brought up to speed in a friendly way without clogging the main threads.

FWIW, I've retitled and revised a Welcome thread (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,454.0.html) in the Amelia Earhart Search Forum / General Discussion board.

I think newcomers should become accustomed to finding the right thread to post their question in, if it is a question about TIGHAR's work.  Otherwise, the newcomer thread or board would simply become a duplicate of other material in the Forum, which is something that I think would not be helpful.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Jon Romig on November 28, 2012, 08:30:31 PM
  • Do a TIGHAR search (http://tighar.org/news/help/82-how-do-i-search-tigharorg) on the topic first.
  • Check the FAQs (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/EarhartFAQs.html).
  • Inspect the index for TIGHAR Tracks. (http://tighar.org/wiki/TIGHAR_Tracks)
  • Browse through the Ameliapedia. (http://tighar.org/wiki/Ameliapedia)
  • Inspect the TIGHAR site map. (http://tighar.org/sitemap.html)
  • Use the Finding Aid by Subject (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Archivessubject.html) or the Finding Aid by Type of Document. (http://Finding Aid by Type of Document)
  • Consult the index of your copy of Finding Amelia (http://tighar.org/wiki/Finding_Amelia) and Amelia Earhart's Shoes. (http://tighar.org/wiki/Shoes)
  • Use the search box in the upper-right corner of this page to search the Forum.

Ric,

I understand how very frustrating your role is here vis-a-vis posters who are off track for various reasons, but I think that we simply need to remind inaccurate/uneducated posters of the above principles, and/or simply tell them when they are off topic. A simple standard message (like the above, repeated for every "bad" post) is all that is needed. You shouldn't be expending your personal energy, emotion or time in individual responses to them.

I am also sure you understand that the volume of material to absorb is getting unmanageable for any newbie or even a regular, so that this problem will only increase over time. As a newbie myself (and I am not a dumb or insensitive guy), it has taken me months to fully grasp the incredible level of my ignorance, and to begin to adopt the practices outlined above.

Perhaps moderators need a way to vote down bad posts (to hide a post unless a user really wants to read them), like on many other sites. I personally would very much appreciate something like that.

Also, isn't it Marty and the moderators' job to police the threads? Why are you being sucked into it?
 
In support of the amazing job you do,

Jon Romig
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Jeff Palshook on December 01, 2012, 03:39:47 AM
Jon Romig -- You quoted a post from Marty that is a year and a half old, and you posted on a thread which has been inactive for a couple of months.  I'm wondering if you feel the current state of the forum reflects the problem about off-topic posts and "uneducated or inaccurate" posters, or are you just speaking in general.  You stated you are a relative newbie to the TIGHAR website and you have been studying the material on the website for several months now.  I assume your study of the website has included browsing the forum, at least now and then.

Could you point out specific forum posts (and/or forum posters, if you wish) which you feel fall into this category of off-topic post and/or uneducated/misinformed/inaccurate poster?  A brief list of posts by thread name and reply number is what I am looking for here.

Jeff P.
   
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on December 01, 2012, 04:52:46 AM
Could you point out specific forum posts (and/or forum posters, if you wish) which you feel fall into this category of off-topic post and/or uneducated/misinformed/inaccurate poster?

I will remove any posts that make such accusations.

It's OK to provide links to help inform people of information they may have missed.

It's not OK to castigate people in a general way for being uninformed.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Michael Elliot on February 10, 2013, 08:59:06 PM
I think you may have a loop in your request for corrections.

Try this.
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Bones_Chronology2.html
16. Oct 23 1940

then, go down bottom and try

Feel free to contact us. Corrections much appreciated.

I found myself in a loop.

FYI

Regards
Mike
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on February 10, 2013, 10:08:15 PM
I think you may have a loop in your request for corrections.

Try this.
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Bones_Chronology2.html (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Bones_Chronology2.html)
16. Oct 23 1940

then, go down bottom and try

Feel free to contact us. Corrections much appreciated.

I found myself in a loop.


I don't see those words on the page to which you have linked.

You are correct that our contact page is missing in action.  I removed a CMS component that we were not using when the system crashed last fall.  I have to create a new contact page and fix the links for which I am responsible.

While we're at it, I have also been informed that the Google search gadget is no longer working on the search page.  I need to do some coding for that, too.
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Michael Elliot on February 11, 2013, 12:55:14 AM
Now, when I enter
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Bones_Chronology2.html
it takes me there. Looks as though you fixed it.
Previously, it took me to a page showing


How to search TIGHAR.org:

    Thirty-second nutshell.
    Two minute description.
    Finding aid by subject.
    Finding aid by type of document.
    Site map.
    Index to TIGHAR Tracks.
    Finding Amelia--includes an index and a companion CD.
    Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs).
    Outline of the basic story.
    Highlights of the Ameliapedia.
    Categories in the Ameliapedia.
    All pages in the Ameliapedia.

Main pages on the website:

    The main site
    Ameliapedia
    Forum
    Site map for main site

 

Feel free to contact us. Corrections much appreciated.

So, did you much appreciate?
Cheers
Title: Re: How to ask intelligent questions
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on February 11, 2013, 07:20:54 AM
Now, when I enter
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Bones_Chronology2.html (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Bones_Chronology2.html)
it takes me there. Looks as though you fixed it.
Previously, it took me to a page showing

How to search TIGHAR.org ...

So, did you much appreciate?
Cheers

Ah.  I see what you mean.

The search page is what people get when a file is not found (Error 404).

I also have other links to it.

Yes, I do appreciate the corrections very much, even though I'm dawdling a bit about fixing the contact page.   ::)