TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Ric Gillespie on November 17, 2020, 01:31:46 PM
-
We're trying to decipher the meaning of the letters XRO on a document that might be related to the Earhart disappearance. The letters might stand alone or be part of a longer string of letters, but I can't think of an English word that includes the letters XRO together. Any context is a possibility, but the document probably dates from not-earlier-than 1936 and not-later-than 1945.
Any ideas?
-
Does it refer to a Lockheed XRO-1 military aircraft?
historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_lockheed_XRO-1_altair.html
Karen Hoy ER 2610
-
What is the context, if you are at liberty to reveal it?
Karen's suggestion seems to fit in the context of long-distance flights. This from Wikipedia:
Altairs were used to carry out a number of record-breaking long-range flights. One aircraft, named Lady Southern Cross was used by Australian aviator Charles Kingsford Smith to carry out the first flight between Australia and the United States between October 20 and November 4, 1934. Kingsford Smith was killed in the early hours of November 8, 1935, flying Lady Southern Cross during an attempt on the record for flying between England and Australia.
Interestingly, the Japanese had two of them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Altair
-
Does it refer to a Lockheed XRO-1 military aircraft?
Good thought, but it wouldn't make sense in this case. Lockheed also built a Model 10 for the Navy - XR2O-1 and one for the Coast Guard - XR3O-1.
The XR2O-1 is c/n 1052, now at the New England Air Museum restored as a Northwest Airways airliner.
-
What is the context, if you are at liberty to reveal it?
Sorry, not at this time.
-
My first thought is an acronym such as X=Transmit, R=Receive, O=only which is probably something I just made up because I’m unable to find it in any aviation or military brevity codes. The second thought was an airport or radio station Identifier before the K and W call signs began. Seems the Dutch have a XRO airfield. I couldn’t find a radio station with those call letters. My last thought was a teletype/telegraph code of sorts?. I couldn’t find anything that jumps out other than in some telegraph code, XRO means "ram". There was such things as cipher telegrams (FWIW) not knowing the context of where these letters might appear.
-
An update to my earlier thread.
XRO were the call letters for China's first radio station (1923 AM at 50 watts on 1500khz).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_radio_stations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_radio_stations)
-
We're trying to decipher the meaning of the letters XRO on a document that might be related to the Earhart disappearance. The letters might stand alone or be part of a longer string of letters, but I can't think of an English word that includes the letters XRO together. Any context is a possibility, but the document probably dates from not-earlier-than 1936 and not-later-than 1945.
Any ideas?
You might have to search for Xray Romeo Zero rather than Xray Romeo Oscar.
So, for example, XR0 (not XRO) is the code block for Easter Island.
Wes Lamboley, W8FMG "has been an active ham since 1954 and has operated from VK4, J28, KX6 and XR0."
XR0 can also mean "Exchange Rate 0": XR1 and XR0 are the exchange rates for current money in El Salvador against the US dollar from the first day of indexation and on the immediately preceding indexation date, respectively.
-
My first thought is an acronym such as X=Transmit, R=Receive, O=only which is probably something I just made up because I’m unable to find it in any aviation or military brevity codes. The second thought was an airport or radio station Identifier before the K and W call signs began. Seems the Dutch have a XRO airfield. I couldn’t find a radio station with those call letters. My last thought was a teletype/telegraph code of sorts?. I couldn’t find anything that jumps out other than in some telegraph code, XRO means "ram". There was such things as cipher telegrams (FWIW) not knowing the context of where these letters might appear.
To concur with the first suggestion, here is a list of acronyms and abbreviations that identifies XRO as meaning "X-band receive only": https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/0471728497.acron
Best regards
Christophe
-
Transmit/Receive Only, on the same freq, as opposed to TO or RO?
-
I'll throw this idea out:
Could XRO or XR0 be a (partial) call sign for a ship -- civilian or military someplace in the pacific in July, 1937?
-
x-band receive only
Does this have to do with harmonics?
-
Could XRO or XR0 be a (partial) call sign for a ship -- civilian or military someplace in the pacific in July, 1937?
Good thought. I should be able to check that in the Berne List of ship and shore stations.
-
My first thought was that it would be an expression for something in radio or other technical context of the time.
I found a number of meanings for XRO that are too recent in origin: product names, pop culture references and computing ("exclude route object").
Found this too: https://ourairports.com/navaids/XRO/Florianopolis_VOR-DME_BR/
Don
-
The possibility of a radio call sign jogged my memory, that perhaps it was an amateur station, often referred to as the final 3 digits (the first two being K5, K6, W5,W6 in the US). I found a 1938 directory of amateur stations on the Internet, which is very useful. The link is:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjW8v2Qo8vrAhVIu1kKHQupBvEQFjADegQIAxAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hallikainen.org%2Forg%2Fkeh%2Fpdf%2FSpring_1938_Radio_Amateur_Callbook_District_6.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0lTK1W_M4wJZ7S24bN2PeO
What is shows is that for at least the US in that time period, no amateur station had an X as the third digit.
At least we can rule that line of investigation out.
-
I checked our copy of the 1937 Berne List of shore stations and ship call signs. Shore stations have a three-letter call sign. The Chinese station with callsign XRO was not on the list and is apparently not a shore station. Ship call signs have four letters. The ships are listed alphabetically by ship name and I did not take the time to go through the hundreds of call signs to see is XRO occurs in any of them.
-
Ran across this article!
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_lockheed_XRO-1_altair.html
-
As mentioned earlier, the Lockheed XRO doesn't make sense as the meaning of XRO in this case.
-
Mr. Gillespie:
Could there be a mis-identification of a letter? If so, for instance, if the X was a mis-reading of an H, then it might apply to a National Radio Corp. Model HRO ... which began production in 1934.
Regards,
Bill torgerson
-
Could there be a mis-identification of a letter? If so, for instance, if the X was a mis-reading of an H, then it might apply to a National Radio Corp. Model HRO ... which began production in 1934.
What do you see? ( A word of caution: These could be random shapes caused by some natural effect.)
-
What do you see? ( A word of caution: These could be random shapes caused by some natural effect.)
-
How strange a coincidence would it have to be for these to not be human-made marks? Random shapes can resemble letters, but in this case we have three instances of shapes resembling letters that are about the same size and aligned with each other. The letters X and O have no right-side-up, but R does, so we see the marks as XRO.
For proof that really strange coincidences happen we need only think of the sextant box.
The only way to know whether these marks are inscriptions is to determine what they are made of. The Penn State scientists tell us Neutron Activation Analysis should give us the elemental breakdown of the marks and surrounding area. If it looks like the marks are unique in their elemental make-up, we can then use Laser Sublimation to determine exactly what they are made of. We're hoping to proceed with those next steps after the holidays.
-
I don’t know, I see all sorts of stuff when I play with it, but then I tend to see Abe Lincoln in the marble patterns of my shower tile.
What if you are seeing HAQ, as in the middle letters of KHAQQ? Sure, it’s a stretch, but most of us would have poor handwriting when etching the letters out of nature at a giant scale.
An H or a K can easily look like an X
An A resembles an R
A Q is basically an O with a little tail. Not that much of a stretch.
-
Ric:
In your first post, you state that you are examining a document of some sort. Can you now give us a clue as to the size/scale and overall description of the document? Is this a paper found on Niku perhaps?
-
I suspect the "document" Ric referred to is actually 2-2-V-1. Perhaps he didn't want to get everyone excited before he had the preliminary results from the Penn State lab in case it turned out to be nothing.
-
I suspect the "document" Ric referred to is actually 2-2-V-1. Perhaps he didn't want to get everyone excited before he had the preliminary results from the Penn State lab in case it turned out to be nothing.
That's how I interpret what Ric said a few posts ago.
If he were dealing with writing on a piece of paper, I doubt he would need the Penn State scientists to do Neutron Activation Analysis on it.
How strange a coincidence would it have to be for these to not be human-made marks? Random shapes can resemble letters, but in this case we have three instances of shapes resembling letters that are about the same size and aligned with each other. The letters X and O have no right-side-up, but R does, so we see the marks as XRO.
For proof that really strange coincidences happen we need only think of the sextant box.
The only way to know whether these marks are inscriptions is to determine what they are made of. The Penn State scientists tell us Neutron Activation Analysis should give us the elemental breakdown of the marks and surrounding area. If it looks like the marks are unique in their elemental make-up, we can then use Laser Sublimation to determine exactly what they are made of. We're hoping to proceed with those next steps after the holidays.
I could be wrong.
I make lsots of mstikaes.
-
LOL!!!
Happy New Year Marty! (and all our TIGHARS)!
-
Penn State has published an excellent article about their work with 2-2-V-1. https://news.psu.edu/story/645773/2021/01/28/research/investigating-amelia-earharts-disappearance-mystery-neutrons Don't miss the video.
At our request, there's no specific mention of the XRO. They're currently doing a major upgrade to their imaging capability. It will probably take a couple months, but once that is completed we should have a much clearer picture of any markings on the artifact.
-
Is it on the inside or outside face, where we might also find traces of it in an existing image?
Thanks,
Jon
-
If real, and if the material turns out to be chalk, paint, graphite or ink, in my mind it is likely a marking related to its removal from inventory at whatever Miami shop did the work. “X” meaning “removed,” “R” possibly “repair”, “revenue” or “inventoRy”, and “O” possibly meaning “zero” or “out.” Those familiar with aircraft parts/materials inventorying will have better ideas I am sure.
How tall are the letters?
Thanks,
Jon
-
Is it on the inside or outside face, where we might also find traces of it in an existing image?
Inside face. Nothing visible to the naked eye but it's reportedly under some cool growth.
The letters are a little over 1/4 inch tall. Seems too small to be some kind of shop marking, but - FWIW - it's the same size same as jotted down notes I take.
-
When I look at the letters in the image they could also be XRD. This is a commonly used short form for x-ray diffraction in labs.wWs this piece ever sent out for X-ray -difraction testing previously? While I doubt any responsible lab would write directly on an artefact could the markings be scratch-through if someone wrote on label attached the sample while it was in the lab?
-
When I look at the letters in the image they could also be XRD. This is a commonly used short form for x-ray diffraction in labs.wWs this piece ever sent out for X-ray -difraction testing previously?
The NTSB lab did Energy Dispersive X-ray Analysis (EDXA) on a sample cut from the artifact.