TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => Alternatives to the Niku Hypothesis => Topic started by: Christian Stock on September 10, 2019, 04:03:31 PM
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I’m sure many of you are familiar with the theory that Earhart and Noonan wound up in Japanese custody, posed for some tourist photos on Jaluit, and were then executed on Saipan, Mili, and some other places. The Government of the RMI has bought into this as well, to the point that they tried to debunk the debunking of the famous 1937 photo of Fred and Amelia that was published in 1935, stating that the rickety old dock in the photo was not built until 1936. Well, I am here to debunk the Republic of the Marshall Islands, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, by providing a photo of said dock, from December, 1928. It was taken during William K. Vanderbilt II’s 1928-29 around the world voyage, on his private yacht the Ara. In fact, I believe one can see the Ara out in the lagoon.
The ONI giveth, and the ONI taketh away.
https://text-message.blogs.archives.gov/2017/07/20/captain-alfred-parker-on-jaluit-atoll-march-april-1937/
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Thanks Christian. Note that the only sources cited by the Ministry are the recollections "of our eldest citizens." Someone old enough (say, 10 years old) to remember the construction of a dock built in 1936 would be 91 years old in 2017.
The photo you cite proves their recollections to be in error.
This is a great illustration of a basic rule in historical investigation. Anecdotal recollections are not reliable unless corroborated by contemporaneous written documentation or datable photographs. When that rule is applied, the entire Japanese Capture theory falls apart.
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Christian,
Not bad for a first post! Impressive bit of research, you certainly know your way around the Archives.
Perhaps you could take a look for the USCG Cutter Bushnell's deck log for November - December 1939 and see if there is any mention of a missing sextant and/or sextant box.
Just a thought.
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Perhaps you could take a look for the USCG Cutter Bushnell's deck log for November - December 1939 and see if there is any mention of a missing sextant and/or sextant box.
USS Bushnell was not a Coast Guard cutter. It was a U.S. Navy survey ship.
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Oops!! You're right of course. I was thinking of something else. Note the re-naming and re-designating.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/36/3602.htm
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Deck log archives seem to start after WWII. I'm not seeing much of anything from the first USS Bushnell. Lots from the second one, launched during the war.
Has anyone looked for records of Navy sales of surplus WWI equipment, from which Noonan may have bought a lot? Would he have had his sextants checked at the USNO, or a local University? There's one on ebay right now with USNO #889, along with a Northwestern University asset tag. Did they own it, or were they just performing the same function as the USNO?
Christian,
Not bad for a first post! Impressive bit of research, you certainly know your way around the Archives.
Perhaps you could take a look for the USCG Cutter Bushnell's deck log for November - December 1939 and see if there is any mention of a missing sextant and/or sextant box.
Just a thought.
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Has anyone looked for records of Navy sales of surplus WWI equipment, from which Noonan may have bought a lot?
At least in some cases, surplus Navy sextants were sold to wholesalers, presumably in quantity, who then retailed them to individuals.
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The photo (and the capture theory) falls apart whether or not the recollections of the elders were correct. The press release says that the dock was built in 1936. It does not say that the dock was built in 1936, then rebuilt in 1964 or 1988. The current Jabor dock is a concrete structure, and not the same dock seen in the "Earhart" photo (a coral and wood jetty). If the elders remembered correctly, the press release confirms that the photo was taken before the dock was built in 1936. If the elders remembered incorrectly, there is nothing to contradict the date of the book in which the photo appeared.
The Japanese built up the base at Emidj with a pier and 2 seaplane aprons, just a few miles away, before the war. It's likely that they built the concrete pier at Jabor at the same time. With no ice or snow, the pier will probably last a hundred years or more.
To recap, we are talking about 3 docks in this location.
1. The old German "coal pier", which was destroyed in the Typhoon of 1905.
2. The rebuilt pier (presumably rebuilt in 1906), photographed in 1928 and circa 1935.
3. The concrete pier, built in 1936, per the government of the Marshall Islands.
Thanks Christian. Note that the only sources cited by the Ministry are the recollections "of our eldest citizens." Someone old enough (say, 10 years old) to remember the construction of a dock built in 1936 would be 91 years old in 2017.
The photo you cite proves their recollections to be in error.
This is a great illustration of a basic rule in historical investigation. Anecdotal recollections are not reliable unless corroborated by contemporaneous written documentation or datable photographs. When that rule is applied, the entire Japanese Capture theory falls apart.
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I just found the Tighar discussion of the 2017 History Channel show at https://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1943.60.html in which Matt Revington and others debunked the show and the Marshall Islands press release dating the dock to 1936. Matt posted an image of the dock from 1911, and it's certain that the two large iron pilings on the end of the dock, which seemed to have survived the 1905 typhoon, are present in the 1905, 1911, 1928 and 1935 photos.
One of the Japanese Capture bloggers specifically calls out these pilings as a feature of the new dock in 1936, specifically for docking large capital warships and such. He also claims the wooden dock is "fortified", and a pre-1905 image (with a German caption no less) of the coal pier is from 1947.
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Why is the photo dated to July, 1937? Because it's Amelia and Fred on the dock.
Is it Amelia and Fred on the dock? Yes, what other white people would be there in July, 1937?
Why is the photo dated to July, 1937? Because it's Amelia and Fred on the dock.
Do you see where this is going?
I submit to you that the presence of unguarded westerners on the dock is in itself proof that the photo was taken much earlier than 1937.
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I'm interested that the ships in both old photos look similar. I thought at first they were the same ship, but the later one has the midships enclosed where the older one is open.
Don
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I just got sucked into reading this mess....pirates and all. We even get a mention a few days after this thread was posted.
https://www.pacificwrecks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5206&start=30
I love the twists, turns and outright leaps in conspiracy theories. He goes from "I see an airplane under water at Hull" (I don't) to Amelia Earhart teaching English to Admiral Yamamoto, Imperial Japanese ARMY pirates running a radio station on Niku, fake Lockheed Electras and Fred Noonan's leg splinted with a 7-foot signpost.
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https://maritime.org/doc/id/oni208j-japan-merchant-ships/index.php#toc
more to follow.
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Based on the site above, I believe the ship in the background of the infamous Jaluit photo of random people waiting on a dock was indeed the Koshu. The Koshu was confirmed to have been in the harbor at Jabor a number of times in 1935.
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One of the conspiracy bloggers pointed out that the December, 1928 photo in my original post showing the dock was marked “Facing 32°”, which would make this a different dock than the one in the infamous photo. He found the remains of what he calls a “German dock” down near the current airport that this could be. Fortunately, I found a few sources that rule out his dock.
First, this dock is called the Sydney Pier on the WWII Jaluit Atoll map attached. Today, its remains are submerged, just North of runway 03 at Jaluit Airport. It was photographed soon after the war (https://libweb.hawaii.edu//digicoll/ttp/ttp_htms/2918.html), and there is even a youtube video of local children freediving around the dock at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGKfIxspve8.
If this was the Sydney dock, and the photographer was facing 32°, you would see almost the entirety of Jabor town in the background, only three-quarters of a mile away, but there is noting but water. I can’t really speak to why Archives has the photo marked as Facing 32°. It’s entirely possible that the photographer’s notes said 320, which would line up perfectly with the Jabor harbor pier, the seawall in the foreground, the trees on the far right, and the lack of land (Jabor) in the background. As a navigator, I would always write out the full heading, such as 032 or 320, so this may be a misread of 32° vs 320.
Jabor Pier (WWII-era pier on current site of the modern pier and all previous piers since 1886): https://libweb.hawaii.edu//digicoll/ttp/ttp_jpg/291805.jpg
Sydney Pier (WWII-era Japanese pier near airport): https://libweb.hawaii.edu//digicoll/ttp/ttp_jpg/291802.jpg
With this in mind, I still feel that the dock in the 1928 photo IS the same as the one featured in the History Channel mockumentary, a coral and sand jetty, with a small wooden dock at the end, which debunks the anonymous letter from the Government of the Marshall Islands.
Attachments don't seem to work today.
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First, this dock is called the Sydney Pier on the WWII Jaluit Atoll map attached. Today, its remains are submerged, just North of runway 03 at Jaluit Airport.
In 2006 we landed a DeHavilland Dash 8 on Runway 03 at the magnificent Jaluit Airport. I just put the video on Youtube at https://youtu.be/TKW-lonci-4
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I just put the video on Youtube at https://youtu.be/TKW-lonci-4
Hey Ric - YouTube says "Video unavailable. This video is private."
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Ooops. My bad. The link should work now
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First, this dock is called the Sydney Pier on the WWII Jaluit Atoll map attached. Today, its remains are submerged, just North of runway 03 at Jaluit Airport.
In 2006 we landed a DeHavilland Dash 8 on Runway 03 at the magnificent Jaluit Airport. I just put the video on Youtube at https://youtu.be/TKW-lonci-4
The little terminal building on the left is about where the Sydney pier started.
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The little terminal building on the left is about where the Sydney pier started.
Yes, I remember a big area of submerged debris in the lagoon behind the terminal building.
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The submerged debris can be seen very well in the Google Earth 2/9/2014 and 11/20/2014 coverage
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The video confirms that the 1928 Vanderbilt photo almost certainly cannot be at the site of the Sydneytown pier. In the video, we can clearly see Jabor, the inlet, and the small island in the inlet. None of that is visible in the 1928 photo.
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Hopefully these attachments will post. They show the WWII configuration of the dock, which is pretty clearly concrete and rebar.
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This environmental assessment has some information on piers at Jaluit.
Page A-21 has a map of what looks like the dock that exists today.
Page A-29 has a map that shows the "Sydney pier" and the "Jabor Dock".
A-30 has a map that indicates the "rubble from Japanese pier"
https://books.google.com/books?id=kDM0AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq=environmental+assessment+jaluit&source=bl&ots=X_0vCXtkQa&sig=4G6bcGgnCbEsFEEvrWs2INdrpxk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjg9KOm7PPVAhVC5CYKHT56Cg0Q6AEIMTAA#v=onepage&q=environmental%20assessment%20jaluit&f=false
Another great post from the previous History Channel discussion. This environmental assessment (noting rubble from Japanese Pier), the postwar photos of the remains of the piers, the attached photo from 1978 showing that the Japanese pier no longer existed, and the fisheries proposal (https://openjicareport.jica.go.jp/pdf/11617255_02.pdf Page 21) showing that the current Jabor pier was built in 1987, put the final nail in the Les Kinney photo as evidence of Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan at Jaluit. We now see that there have been at least 4 piers on that site:
The German era coal pier
The rebuilt pier with the reverse-L shaped end and multiple pairs of bollards (much of the wood section was removed by 1928, photographed in 1928 and 1935)
The Japanese pier, built circa 1936-1940
The modern pier, built in 1987
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the current Jabor pier was built in 1987, put the final nail in the Les Kinney photo as evidence of Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan at Jaluit. We now see that there have been at least 4 piers on that site:
The German era coal pier
The rebuilt pier with the reverse-L shaped end and multiple pairs of bollards (much of the wood section was removed by 1928, photographed in 1928 and 1935)
The Japanese pier, built circa 1936-1940
The modern pier, built in 1987
I don't understand how your research disproves Les Kinney's contention that the "Jaluit Photo" shows the Japanese dock allegedly built circa 1936. Kinney says the photo was taken in 1937 (despite evidence to the contrary).
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I guess by calling it Les Kinney's contention, I mean the more broad theory that this photo is of AE and FN. Like many conspiracy theories, supporters take something simple, like a blurry photo, then start conjuring up other "evidence" to help make it true. But Les is the father of this Jaluit photo theory, so I attributed it in entirety to him.
The 1936 (really more like 1940) dock, like all of the Japanese fortifications at Jabor and Emidj, was concrete. It was photographed during the war, damaged by bombing, then photographed just after the war. (see attached photos)
The dock in the photo was actually a jetty, constructed of coral boulders, coral slabs (see the left and right "curbs" of the dock in the 1935 photo), with a coral sand surface.
If they were smart, they would have claimed the dock was built in 1940, so the one in the photo could have been from 1937 (other evidence notwithstanding), but they have instead hitched their horse to 1936.
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The question is, was the Japanese dock there when Kosyu (aka Koshu) visited Jaluit in 1935? Or was the dock not built until 1937, in which case Les Kinney's photo must have been taken during the ship’s July 1937 visit.
The 1936 construction date seems to be based entirely on the childhood recollection of Robert Reimer. He could be right, or he could easily be off by a year.
Kinney, of course, claims the photo he found could have been added later to the travel guide printed in 1935. For the sake of argument, let's say he's right. It still proves nothing.
On July 11, 1937, ambassador Grew in Tokyo wired Secretary of State Hull:
"Contents of Department’s telegram under reference communicated immediately to senior aide to the Navy Minister who stated that no Japanese aircraft in that area but survey ship Koshu has proceeded toward Marshall Islands and should now be there. Japanese radio stations have been ordered to be on continuous watch for Earhart signals and many Japanese fishing craft in and to east of Marshall Islands have been instructed to be on lookout. The senior aide expressed greatest willingness to cooperate. Grew”
So Koshu calls at Jaluit (Japanese headquarters in the Marshalls) upon arriving in the Marshalls to look for Earhart. Maybe somebody takes a photo at that time, or maybe the photo was taken during the ship’s 1935 visit. In either case, I see nothing to support the hypothesis that the ship was there to deliver the kidnapped Americans (seen on the dock guarded by Japanese soldiers cleverly disguised as Marshallese locals).
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There was always a dock in that spot, from 1886 to post WWII. In 1935, it was the coral jetty. If RMI and Robert Reimer are correct, the concrete, wartime Japanese pier was built in 1936. It's funny to see them attack both the date of the book and the age of the dock.
We've all seen the book. It's a printed book with a table of contents, page numbers, and the photos are printed on the page with captions, so they would need to add a page, and then change the entire table of contents to reflect the new page. The entire book would need to be reprinted since each page is numbered. It is really more like a coffee table book than a photo album. It is dated by the National Diet Library, which is basically the Japanese Library of Congress. I feel the provenance is beyond reproach. If a librarian made a mistake when adding it later, wouldn't they err to a later date? Why have a 1935 stamp on your desk in 1937 or later?
The same blogger who interpreted the photo found the logs of the Koshu. It was in Jabor port a number of times in 1935.
Lastly, The "barge" with the "airplane" is about 15-20 feet from the stern of the Koshu. You would never have a barge floating that close to your rudder. Any wake or current could damage your rudder, hull, or possibly propeller. You either push a barge, or tow it 100+ feet behind you.
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"White uniform and brimmed cap" strolling by the dock in 1932.
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Looks more like a pith helmet.
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Where would they go? According to the Republic of the Marshall Islands, they needed a Japanese Army soldier guarding them.
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These two fellows appear in a photo of the Jaluit clinic dated from 1932. The famous photo has been dated to both 1932 and 1935 in the National Diet Library. I know, it's insane that 2 books published a few years apart would contain the same photo. Has that ever happened?
They both wear similar clothing, and the guy in the left, with the infamous widow's peak, has a jaunty, casual way of leaning against something for photos that is sometimes mistaken for a knee injury. The guy on the dock resembles the guy by the clinic much mre than he resembles Noonan, and we can place both the dock guy and the clinic guy in Jabor at about the same time....unlike Noonan.
Perhaps someone visited in 1932 and took more than one photo.
I will let you decide.