TIGHAR

Amelia Earhart Search Forum => Join the search => Topic started by: Ric Gillespie on October 26, 2017, 08:25:45 AM

Title: Schmidt Ocean Institute ROV live video -- 27 October 2017
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 26, 2017, 08:25:45 AM
The Schmidt Ocean Institute research vessel R/V Falkor is currently conducting deep coral surveys of the seamounts in the Phoenix Islands Protected Area using a sophisticated camera-equipped Remote Operated Vehicle (ROV). Live video feeds from the ROV are available during dives at https://schmidtocean.org/rv-falkor/status/ (https://schmidtocean.org/rv-falkor/status/)
The ship is currently en route to Nikumaroro and should arrive sometime in the next day or so. They will make one ROV dive at Niku - duration somewhere between four and nine hours.
This is a tremendous opportunity for us to watch for any sign of an airplane or airplane debris and we need volunteers who will help us monitor the video feed during the dive. If you are interested in helping, please send me an email at ric@tighar.org with your name, your time zone, and what times during the day or night you are willing to watch the video feed from the ROV.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 26, 2017, 09:27:44 AM
Do you know what parts of the reef they intend to dive on?
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Matt Revington on October 26, 2017, 09:30:13 AM
This is very interesting, although we are likely to get an abundance of pareidolia.


I have a couple of questions.
Can Tighar send out an email notification when the dive starts?  I will be watching in the Eastern Time zone but can't commit to a time until I  approximately when the dive is going to occur.

Are they going to make a recording of the feed available to TIGHAR?  Would it be a violation of the copyright to record the feed myself over the internet?
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 26, 2017, 09:53:23 AM
I'm not sure how to set this up and it may be too late to try, but can we cobble-together a live voice network between those watching so we can interact and que each other if we see something interesting?
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 26, 2017, 10:31:50 AM
Do you know what parts of the reef they intend to dive on?

That has not been decided but this morning one of the senior scientists aboard, my friend Randi Rotjan, emailed me to ask where, in a perfect world, we would like them to dive.  Told her, "All of the evidence points to the airplane being washed off the reef-flat about 400 meters north of the shipwreck.  Our side-scan survey of that area off the northwest end of the island from the landing channel up to the northwest tip in 2012 showed several possible targets that were too deep (1200 to 1500 meters) for our ROV to investigate.
If that neighborhood fits your bio goals it would great if you could dive there."
I haven't heard back but at least she asked.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 26, 2017, 10:35:24 AM
Can Tighar send out an email notification when the dive starts?

As soon as I know when the dive is scheduled to begin I'll send an email notification to everybody who signs up.


Are they going to make a recording of the feed available to TIGHAR?

Yes.  After the cruise, all of the data will be archived and publicly available.

  Would it be a violation of the copyright to record the feed myself over the internet?

I don't think so.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 26, 2017, 10:36:10 AM
I'm not sure how to set this up and it may be too late to try, but can we cobble-together a live voice network between those watching so we can interact and que each other if we see something interesting?

That's beyond my pay-grade.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 26, 2017, 10:40:49 AM
"As soon as I know when the dive is scheduled to begin I'll send an email notification to everybody who signs up."

Sign me up.  Email sent to you.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on October 26, 2017, 11:32:42 AM
I'm not sure how to set this up and it may be too late to try, but can we cobble-together a live voice network between those watching so we can interact and que each other if we see something interesting?

That's beyond my pay-grade.

All that is necessary is to pick a tool and get everyone who is interested to prepare their credentials to use the tool.

Skype supports multi-person chats.

So does Zoom.

WhatsApp might.

Maybe JoinMe. (https://www.join.me/solutions/free-conference-call)  I haven't used that one myself.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 26, 2017, 11:46:35 AM
I'm familiar with Skype although I don't think I've ever done a multi-person session - either text or voice.

I wonder about the practicality of doing a multi-person Skype session that lasts eight hours.  I've done a (pardon the expression) shitload of ROV video monitoring.  It sounds exciting and it is - for the first 20 minutes or so.  If you're really into deep corals, like the folks aboard Falkor, I'm sure it's riveting, but if you're just waiting for something man-made to show up it's BORING.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Greg Daspit on October 26, 2017, 11:59:01 AM
Their navigation page shows they are spending a lot of time on western slopes of the seamounts. If they do the same at Nikumaroro that would be great. It  looks like they are just north of McKean Island right now.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 26, 2017, 12:06:23 PM
Their navigation page shows they are spending a lot of time on western slopes of the seamounts. If they do the same at Nikumaroro that would be great.

Randi wants to find that airplane almost as much as we do.  If there is any way to justify it within the ship's primary mission they'll dive the west side.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on October 26, 2017, 12:58:12 PM
I'm familiar with Skype although I don't think I've ever done a multi-person session - either text or voice.

I've done voice.  It works.

Quote
I wonder about the practicality of doing a multi-person Skype session that lasts eight hours.  I've done a (pardon the expression) shitload of ROV video monitoring.  It sounds exciting and it is - for the first 20 minutes or so.  If you're really into deep corals, like the folks aboard Falkor, I'm sure it's riveting, but if you're just waiting for something man-made to show up it's BORING.

Understood.

Having someone to talk do MIGHT help pass the time.

Might not.


Skype can do both audio and text at the same time.  So can Teamviewer, I think.  Of course, watching the text window for comments could distract people from watching the live stream ...

If any of your volunteers want to set it up, the time to practice the conference call and work out the wrinkles is BEFORE the day of the live video stream.

I don't think it should be imposed on anyone who just wants to watch for a while all by themselves.

Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 26, 2017, 01:22:23 PM
I'm willing to try Skype voice if anyone is interested.  Would help coordinate coffee and bathroom breaks between participants.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 26, 2017, 03:43:48 PM
Ric, what's your best guess of the time of day/night our time (EDT) they might start their ROV operations?

I'd hate to go to bed and miss your alerting email. :'(

I'm sure they are capable of working at night Niku time if the Captain is ok staying that close to the reef in the dark, but daylight at Niku is oh-dark-thiry here.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Matt Revington on October 27, 2017, 09:35:56 AM
Looking at the map on the website  at 9:30 Eastern time the ship has now left the last reef ( Mckean?)  is now heading toward Niku and should be  in a few hours.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 27, 2017, 10:42:54 AM
The current plan is for the dive at Niku to take place around 19:00 GMT ( 3:00pm EDT) today.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 12:41:26 PM
Well, Im at work where I have 3 monitors. I have their navigation status up and ready. I'm Central Time and Ill be here until sometime between 11 pm and midnight. Cant use Skype voice though.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 27, 2017, 01:07:05 PM
Here's the link for the live feed:

              https://schmidtocean.org/technology/live-from-rv-falkor/

Wonder if there will be an audio feed as well?
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Matt Revington on October 27, 2017, 01:08:30 PM
audio feed...., well it would be a good sign if we hear banjo music ;)
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 27, 2017, 01:10:43 PM
Latest word is that they expect to begin descent at 3:45pm EDT.  They may not start streaming until they get to the bottom.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Gary Vance on October 27, 2017, 02:22:56 PM
The live feed is now on.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 02:23:22 PM
Can you verify the dive number? Im showing 81
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 27, 2017, 02:24:32 PM
Stream is up!

I show #81 as well
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 02:26:37 PM
Woot! Let the games begin!
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 27, 2017, 02:28:42 PM
anyone have audio?
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 02:29:28 PM
Not me. Im at work. The feed is neat in its own right. Seeing the ocean floor so deep. The fish are unimpressed.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Mark Appel on October 27, 2017, 02:49:03 PM
Audio is on. Scientists are commentating.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 27, 2017, 02:50:02 PM
got it!
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 27, 2017, 03:03:01 PM
As shown on the navigation map, they started about one kilometer out and are working their way toward the island.  They’re at 800 meters depth now and will go to about 500 meters depth as they get closer to the island.  The terrain looks really flat where they are now in contrast to to the steep reef slope closer in.  They have no set plan for where they’ll go as the dive continues, “letting the substrate guide our actions.”

We’ve always accepted that the plane floated some distance out to sea before sinking, but we never imagined we’d have an opportunity to investigate that possibility. 
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 27, 2017, 03:47:01 PM
Impressive ROV.  There's no doubt that if any interesting man-made bit are seen, they'll be able to get extreme close-up video.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 04:00:01 PM
Are the scientists going to do that though?
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 27, 2017, 04:25:03 PM
Are the scientists going to do that though?

You betcha.  That has all been discussed and agreed on. If they see something man-made I'll get a phone call.  They are prepared to recover small items if we ask them to.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Mark Appel on October 27, 2017, 04:29:00 PM
It's called "good faith." Good folks. True professionals.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 04:30:48 PM
Nice. Im really enjoying the feed for what it is. Getting to see a side of Niku we don't usually get to see.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Alfred Hendrickson on October 27, 2017, 04:38:06 PM
Wow! Amazing feed!

I'd love to see NR16020 materialize out of the gloom!
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 04:41:49 PM
I think there would be a worldwide simultaneous soiling of the britches. I want that octopus.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 27, 2017, 04:42:32 PM
Good folks. True professionals.

The woman whose is doing most of the commentary is Prof. Randi Rotjan.  Randi and I have been friends for many years. She's now with Boston U. but she was with New England Aquarium for years. She has led a couple of SCUBA expeditions to Niku. Randi knows that the scientific interest in the Phoenix Islands and PIPA began with TIGHAR in 1997.  We've been emailing back and forth about this dive for several days.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 27, 2017, 04:54:34 PM
Definitely hanging on the cliff face now.  Any idea of location in relation to NC or Bev. Obj?
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 27, 2017, 04:57:22 PM
Definitely hanging on the cliff face now.  Any idea of location in relation to NC or Bev. Obj?

Looks like the ship is about 500m north of the NW tip.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 27, 2017, 06:04:10 PM
Must be break time.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 27, 2017, 06:05:14 PM
Must be break time.

Randi emailed me that they're moving to a new area.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Leon R White on October 27, 2017, 06:06:46 PM
Did you notice any of the detail on the last picture before they cut out?
See any numbers?
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 27, 2017, 06:11:43 PM
Did you notice any of the detail on the last picture before they cut out?
See any numbers?

Numbers? What numbers?
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 27, 2017, 06:16:42 PM
All I saw were the Heading, Depth and Altitude display on the HUD.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Jerry Germann on October 27, 2017, 06:48:38 PM
Must be break time.

Back on
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 06:57:28 PM
If, hypothetically, a substantial piece of the airframe was still intact, such as a wing or a piece of the tail, and IF it had escaped being crusted over by marine life, what are the chances of any of its identifying markings (registration number, Lockheed logo, red visibility paint etc)  still being intact?
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 27, 2017, 07:14:06 PM
If, hypothetically, a substantial piece of the airframe was still intact, such as a wing or a piece of the tail, and IF it had escaped being crusted over by marine life, what are the chances of any of its identifying markings (registration number, Lockheed logo, red visibility paint etc)  still being intact?

If a substantial piece of the airframe was intact we wouldn't need numbers, logos or paint.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 07:14:58 PM
Its more of a curiosity
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 27, 2017, 07:15:26 PM
Trying to find anything specific in this tortured, fractured coral-scape is like looking for a BB on a football field, at night, using a penlight while looking through a soda straw, or something like that.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 07:18:39 PM
Did I hear someone mention a cable and someone else respond with "Well, there were shipwrecks on this island."  I have to use earbuds since Im at work and its hard to hear.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Friend Weller on October 27, 2017, 07:21:32 PM
I saw (and heard) that, too....
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 27, 2017, 07:21:42 PM
Tough to make out words; they're not speaking for the microphones but to each other.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 27, 2017, 07:23:05 PM
That is one cool sonar display!!
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 07:23:16 PM
I saw (and heard) that, too....

Oh good, at least if I was hallucinating, Im not alone!
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Greg Daspit on October 27, 2017, 07:26:18 PM
Saw the cable. The map still shows them north of the island.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 07:36:49 PM
I wasn't looking at the screen at the time and I missed it.  >:(
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 08:03:17 PM
Talk about eyes playing with you. That dark object to the right of the large crack in the rock looked totally manmade, until she zoomed way in on it.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Jerry Germann on October 27, 2017, 08:05:42 PM
I wasn't looking at the screen at the time and I missed it.  >:(

The ROV was at 544m ....tried to capture and post image , but no luck on my outdated PC.

If you go back to about -55 and start from there,...or a bit before or after..keeps changing as time moves on. red bar on bottom..move back to about there.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Greg Daspit on October 27, 2017, 08:07:21 PM
Is the map really updating their location every 5 minutes?
The location of ship on the their Navigation page does not appear to have changed even though on the ROV display screen they have been moving south for a while. The map says it is updated every 5 minutes, and the last update time displayed is changing, but I haven't been able to tell that there has been any movement on the map displayed for a while?
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 08:10:11 PM
I don't think it is. They are talking about "rounding the corner." The ROV's cable isn't THAT long. 
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Jerry Germann on October 27, 2017, 08:32:20 PM
Krystal...hate to miss any new things..but if you go back to about 104-105 about now , you may catch that cable image..right about after one of the fellows states who is that little guy here?.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 27, 2017, 08:51:26 PM
Anyone else intrigued by these "sediment chutes?"
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 28, 2017, 07:10:04 AM
It's too bad nothing Tighar-related was observed during yesterday's ROV dive at Niku.  It seems the areas the scientists were interested in didn't correspond wiith areas where airplane or shipwreck parts would most likely end up.  Too steep a gradient to stop.  It was worth seeing, though, a high-powered, patient, persistent team using a state-of-the-art ROV to it's full extent.

Better luck next time!
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Randy Conrad on October 28, 2017, 09:24:57 AM
Good Morning...I just wanted to point out that it was an awesome advantage to our team for this expedition to have taken place. I did see some things late last night Bill that caught my eye and I know their team thought things were out of the ordinary. One thing that was mentioned was the change of terrain so much around Nikumaurro. As they were ascending from 1000 meters last night they came across the lava features with the grooves in between them. Kinda like looking at erosion in the mountains per say. My analogy of this ...and looking for three hours last night tells me that if this plane went over the reefs edge...I wouldn't wanna be in it. With the rolls and the slits and rocks and the steep slopes tells me that this plane got torn up pretty bad...so much to the point was there anything left? Anyway, it was neat to see a close in depth look at the features of Nikumaurro and the surrounding terrain. A big thank you to the expedition team for going and doing this....
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Randy Conrad on October 28, 2017, 09:25:55 AM
Forgot to mention the coconut they found at 1000 meters. Very well preserved!!!
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Bill Mangus on October 28, 2017, 09:57:03 AM
Yeah, I saw that.  I thought for a minute they were going to recover it.  That would have been cool!
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Leon R White on October 28, 2017, 10:52:33 AM
 ;D :'(

I just deleted about 10 hours of raw video of the dive. by accident. I'm devasted.  Did anyone else record the dive, and may I get a copy via drop box or whatever?
If you can, let me know before I jump off the tail of an electra.

L
>:( :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ben Howe on October 28, 2017, 11:11:52 AM
I'm sure someone has already thought of this but: Any chance we can get the data from their multi beam sonar scan? They scanned the entire west end of the island.

video ROV SuBastian Dive 081- Deep Sea Corals of PIPA, 4:29:19
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: pilotart on October 28, 2017, 11:20:22 AM
@Leon R White
Just return to their site https://schmidtocean.org/technology/live-from-rv-falkor/ (https://schmidtocean.org/technology/live-from-rv-falkor/) and click "[Watch Live]" and you can see a rerun of all 10:28:47.

Watch videos from previous dives as well here: https://schmidtocean.org/education/rov-faqs/ (https://schmidtocean.org/education/rov-faqs/)
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 28, 2017, 11:44:32 AM
I'm sure someone has already thought of this but: Any chance we can get the data from their multi beam sonar scan? They scanned the entire west end of the island.

Yes, we'll be able to see the multi-beam, probably some time after they get home.  Should be very useful.
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Leon R White on October 29, 2017, 09:29:43 AM
thank you PilotArt.  I found the link in my browser history and there was the whole thing 10hours 27 min.  I appreciate your help.
L
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Leon R White on October 30, 2017, 05:48:05 PM
I see from the email that no meaningful AE airplane evidence was found. Does Tighar want any one to point out verifiable images of gauges and such?

Camels in the clouds - I know.  Would Tighar prefer NOT to have a mysterious shapes thread on this?

Leon
Title: Re: Volunteers Needed
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 31, 2017, 08:51:45 AM
Does Tighar want any one to point out verifiable images of gauges and such?

Verifiable images of gauges and such??  Absolutely!

Camels in the clouds - I know.  Would Tighar prefer NOT to have a mysterious shapes thread on this?

The trouble is, none of us is qualified to define what is and is not a "mysterious" shape in that environment.  The scientific team aboard Falkor had the expertise needed to spot anything unusual, and when the did they closely investigated it.  I don't think think there's any point in us engaging in a festival of pareidolia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia).