TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Chris Johnson on September 19, 2014, 03:55:41 PM
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I have a number of web alerts setup for key words in things that interest me, one of those words being Nikumaroro.
This just popped up Aviators bucket list (http://www.odt.co.nz/news/queenstown-lakes/316541/aviators-bucket-list-includes-earhart-search)
May be worth a punt?
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I don't hink he sounds like the sort guy we'd want to spend a month on a boat with. We're pretty selective about who we will accept as a Sponsor Team Member.
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I agree with Ric. Ive read about this guy before. His "aspirations" to find Earhart almost make it sound like he wants to cash in on someone elses work. I cant speak for everyone else, but I have little patience for inflated ego. Granted, I dont know the guy from Adam but from what I have read of him, I could see any sponsorship going to his head and causing real problems for those on the expedition.
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Hey guys and gals have'nt we been there done that!
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I was thinking it. You said it.
Krystal "Doesnt want to see history repeat itsself" McGinty
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Ahem ...
"But I don't want to get on the cart ..."
"Oh, don't be such a baby!" *
LTM, who mixes horses and carts every day,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
* only comprehensible if you've seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail eleventy-billion times.
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Doesn't sound to me like he wants to join anybody - and he's already
got his diving gear and more money than TIGHAR. Anchors away!
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Doesn't sound to me like he wants to join anybody - and he's already
got his diving gear and more money than TIGHAR. Anchors away!
I he goes to Niku without clearing through TIGHAR and if he doesn't get a PIPA Permit and bring along a Kiribati representative he's operating illegally.
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Could someone do that? Just go behind your back and get a permit from PIPA or will Kiribati stop them. If this guy were to illegally access the island and find something, would TIGHAR get the credit its due? Unsettling thought to say the least.
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Could someone do that? Just go behind your back and get a permit from PIPA or will Kiribati stop them. If this guy were to illegally access the island and find something, would TIGHAR get the credit its due? Unsettling thought to say the least.
Someone could certainly go to Niku illegally. No way to stop them. But they couldn't get a PIPA permit without an okay from us.
I don't worry about credit, but I'd worry about the conservation of any artifacts found.
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Even if someone went to Niku illegally and did recover Earhart-related artifacts, they can't rob TIGHAR of credit (at least if their actions are known): it would prove the Niku arrival as positive.
The greatest tragedy would be a privateer looting such things and not conserving properly, or just as bad - keeping whatever is found secreted away. That sometimes happens with antiquities collectors who are able to have what they want and robs the rest of us of the knowledge of the past.
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Someone could certainly go to Niku illegally. No way to stop them. But they couldn't get a PIPA permit without an okay from us.
I don't worry about credit, but I'd worry about the conservation of any artifacts found.
Ric,
Just curious - how binding is TIGHAR's agreement with a foreign entity like Kiribati? Does TIGHAR have enforceable exclusivity through international law?
Just occurred to me that it might be subject to Kiribati's 'pleasure' (although I realize TIGHAR is on great terms with them and has served well as a custodian of sorts and always works under supervision of their government). Can Kiribatic enforceably be held to the agreement?
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Just curious - how binding is TIGHAR's agreement with a foreign entity like Kiribati?
The agreement is between TIGHAR and the government of Kiribati. How "binding" is it? TIGHAR and Kiribati consider themselves "bound" by it.
Does TIGHAR have enforceable exclusivity through international law?
The only way to answer that is through a test case - which I hope we never have.
Just occurred to me that it might be subject to Kiribati's 'pleasure' (although I realize TIGHAR is on great terms with them and has served well as a custodian of sorts and always works under supervision of their government).
It is a binding agreement between the parties. Both sides have obligations. Compliance is not subject to Kiribati's pleasure.
Can Kiribatic enforceably be held to the agreement?
Again, the only way to answer that is through a test case - which I hope we never have.
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Thanks, Ric - and I share your sentiment, of course regarding 'test cases' which TIGHAR doesn't need.
Probably the greatest danger is a wealthy privateer going after it for personal aquisition - hard to guard against if someone is deterimined and equipped well enough to carry it off. That's the antiquities nightmare, I'm sure.
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That's the antiquities nightmare, I'm sure.
It has ever been so.
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Ahem ...
"But I don't want to get on the cart ..."
"Oh, don't be such a baby!" *
LTM, who mixes horses and carts every day,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
* only comprehensible if you've seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail eleventy-billion times.
And I have. Good to know I'm not alone.
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Good to know I'm not alone.
The ability to apply quotes from that film to any situation is almost a pre-requisite to Forum participation. Most of our investigations resemble the discussion of why witches float.
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The greatest tragedy would be a privateer looting such things and not conserving properly, or just as bad - keeping whatever is found secreted away. That sometimes happens with antiquities collectors who are able to have what they want and robs the rest of us of the knowledge of the past.
THIS is what concerns me about this "bucket-list" fellow. He just strikes me as the kind of guy who pays to shoot elephants, and buys ancient Egyptian artifacts on the black market. If he were to locate the wreckage (More likely than not by piggy-backing off of other peoples hard work and dedication) I could see him snatching up any identifiable clues and whisking them away for his private collection. That sort of thing happens every day and if you have enough $$$ you can do it right under peoples noses. He states that he wants to find Earhart wreckage. If he wanted to do it legally and with integrity, he would have approached TIGHAR, knowing that Ric and his team were the ones who launched the Niku theory, not spouted off about how HE thinks she landed on Niku.
Krystal "Doesn't Play Nice with Poachers" McGinty
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The greatest tragedy would be a privateer looting such things and not conserving properly, or just as bad - keeping whatever is found secreted away. That sometimes happens with antiquities collectors who are able to have what they want and robs the rest of us of the knowledge of the past.
THIS is what concerns me about this "bucket-list" fellow. He just strikes me as the kind of guy who pays to shoot elephants, and buys ancient Egyptian artifacts on the black market. If he were to locate the wreckage (More likely than not by piggy-backing off of other peoples hard work and dedication) I could see him snatching up any identifiable clues and whisking them away for his private collection. That sort of thing happens every day and if you have enough $$$ you can do it right under peoples noses. He states that he wants to find Earhart wreckage. If he wanted to do it legally and with integrity, he would have approached TIGHAR, knowing that Ric and his team were the ones who launched the Niku theory, not spouted off about how HE thinks she landed on Niku.
Krystal "Doesn't Play Nice with Poachers" McGinty
I wouldn't condemn the man without knowing such things about him, nor would I sit up nights worrying about TIGHAR being beat out; but you are wise to see the perils of this world as they do sometimes exist.
One thing about it - his means and intentions are in the public eye now, so it might be a tough thing to get done on the sneak for someone with that much publicity on his back. Should this particular fellow do so, I will add that the aforesaid suggests to me that he does not seem as one who'd keep it secret - seems to enjoy the light.
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Talk is cheap. Most people have no idea what it takes to get to Niku, let alone how hard it is to anything once you get there.
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You are correct that we dont know him from Adam. That is just speculation on my part. Im just highly suspicious of people who make claims that are clearly the work of someone else.
You make a good point about him appearing to be a spotlight junkie. I suppose if he does come out saying that he has located the Earhart wreckage, people will want to know where he found it. He will have to be truthful if he wants anyone to take him seriously. If he says its on Niku, then it will come out that he had no legal right to be poking around on that island, that TIGHAR was the one who narrowed down where the wreckage could be located, and that he illegally entered protected waters without a permit. He would just be weaving his own rope from there, I guess.
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Just curious - how binding is TIGHAR's agreement with a foreign entity like Kiribati?
The agreement is between TIGHAR and the government of Kiribati. How "binding" is it? TIGHAR and Kiribati consider themselves "bound" by it.
Does TIGHAR have enforceable exclusivity through international law?
The only way to answer that is through a test case - which I hope we never have.
Just occurred to me that it might be subject to Kiribati's 'pleasure' (although I realize TIGHAR is on great terms with them and has served well as a custodian of sorts and always works under supervision of their government).
It is a binding agreement between the parties. Both sides have obligations. Compliance is not subject to Kiribati's pleasure.
Can Kiribatic enforceably be held to the agreement?
Again, the only way to answer that is through a test case - which I hope we never have.
Ric - Could you please post the agreement? Thanks.
Diego V.
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Is that really necessary?
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Ric - Could you post the agreement? Thanks.
I believe I've posted the operative part of the agreement before but here it is again.
Exclusive licence.
a. So long as this Agreement is in effect, and subject to compliance with the terms of this Agreement, Kiribati hereby grants and TIGHAR accepts an exclusive licence and right to search for, study, recover and preserve artefacts, including plane parts or wreckage, bones, personal effects or any other items, relating to or which tend to suggest the presence of Amelia Earhart and/or Frederick Noonan within the territorial boundaries of the Republic of Kiribati.
b. TIGHAR’s rights under this licence may be exercised directly by TIGHAR or in conjunction with subject-matter experts or third parties whom TIGHAR has determined possess the appropriate skill or equipment necessary to further the objective of this license.
c. Kiribati warrants that it has not granted, and agrees that it will not grant, any similar rights to any third party. Where, after the entry into force of this Agreement, any third party contacts or approaches Kiribati seeking permission to search or enter Kiribati for a purpose outlined herein, Kiribati will refer the proposal to TIGHAR, who will, at its own cost and expense, communicate with the third party and assess the proposal. Following such assessment, TIGHAR will recommend to Kiribati that it: allow the proposed activity; allow the proposed activity under certain stated conditions; or prohibit the proposed activity. Kiribati will then take TIGHAR’s recommendation into consideration in deciding whether or not to allow the proposed activity.
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I know this comes late after the initial post, but it has been kind of bugging me. As much as I dearly respect a free press and value its place in a free society, I would be very cautious myself about judging someone on the basis of a single news article, including ones from smaller publications and more human interest and less news oriented. Much experience in aviation and business, living in the tropics, and seemingly of means would, for me, count for something and possibly warrant further investigation and provide some counterbalance to what seems to me to be fluff article at best. Just a thought.
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"After I sell my cocoa plantation, polish my Beechcraft, have my daughter tidy up the airport, and then relocate to an exotic Pacific isle, I'll think about the next check box on my list..."
Who is this guy? The... the most interesting man in the world...?
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Would now be a good time to talk about my dryer lint collection?
No? Bummer.
LTM, who has lots of little bits of stuff,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189ECSP
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Would now be a good time to talk about my dryer lint collection?
No? Bummer.
LTM, who has lots of little bits of stuff,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189ECSP
There's some in my belly button... :P