TIGHAR

Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Ric Gillespie on August 14, 2014, 05:38:43 PM

Title: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 14, 2014, 05:38:43 PM
With just about two weeks left to find funding for a Niku VIII expedition this year, we've produced a new fundraising video.  You can check it out on the TIGHAR homepage (http://tighar.org).  Please share it with anyone you think might donate.  Our plan is to use it in an Indiegogo crowd sourcing campaign. 
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: George Lam on August 15, 2014, 12:46:56 AM
Awesome, finally a promo video to Tighar's name.  Good work.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Tim Mellon on August 15, 2014, 08:06:18 AM
Ric,

I must admit to being somewhat disturbed by the sequence at 3:04 in your new video. It shows the submersible blasting off the underwater surface, creating a large cloud of "dust", and causing who-knows-how-much havoc with any potential artifacts below.

Do you have some protocol of movement in mind that would avoid such disturbances?

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 15, 2014, 09:22:56 AM
Do you have some protocol of movement in mind that would avoid such disturbances?

Good point.  Yes, we've talked about that.  Disturbance of the surface by wash from the thrusters is a concern with any vehicle, remote or manned.  Some disturbance is unavoidable as you probably recall from our work with Wolfgang.  I wouldn't anticipate anything like the blast-off in the video.  In that case the sub was resting on the bottom beside the midget Japanese sub so the thrusters had to propel the entire weight of the submersible up off the bottom.  We won't be parking beside anything that looks interesting. 
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Tim Mellon on August 15, 2014, 09:45:52 AM
Do you have some protocol of movement in mind that would avoid such disturbances?

Good point.  Yes, we've talked about that.  Disturbance of the surface by wash from the thrusters is a concern with any vehicle, remote or manned.  Some disturbance is unavoidable as you probably recall from our work with Wolfgang.  I wouldn't anticipate anything like the blast-off in the video.  In that case the sub was resting on the bottom beside the midget Japanese sub so the thrusters had to propel the entire weight of the submersible up off the bottom. We won't be parking beside anything that looks interesting.

In the 2010 videos, the ROV parked at least twice during the 8.55 minute section. It arose more gently, but still scattered some particles when it moved. In both cases, things that looked "interesting" (at least to me) were not discovered in real time, but only later.

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 15, 2014, 10:26:04 AM
In the 2010 videos, the ROV parked at least twice during the 8.55 minute section. It arose more gently, but still scattered some particles when it moved. In both cases, things that looked "interesting" (at least to me) were not discovered in real time, but only later.

That's right. We try to learn from experience.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 15, 2014, 06:29:44 PM
Our long-awaited crowdsourcing campaign is now live at https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/we-can-find-amelia-earhart/x/8445833
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: James Champion on August 15, 2014, 08:42:23 PM
Quote
We won't be parking beside anything that looks interesting. 

Oh Really?

I bet if you see a definite AIA, you will park beside it to get as many pictures as possible.



By AIA I mean Any Idiot Artifact.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 15, 2014, 08:56:25 PM
Quote
We won't be parking beside anything that looks interesting. 

Oh Really?

I bet if you see a definite AIA, you will park beside it to get as many pictures as possible.



By AIA I mean Any Idiot Artifact.

Truth be told, I won't be making those decisions. If something interesting is found the underwater archaeologist calls the shots - and archaeologists are a lot more conservative than I am.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Russ Matthews on August 16, 2014, 01:43:53 AM
I wouldn't anticipate anything like the blast-off in the video.

Agreed.  The so-called "blast off" is not typical and, I strongly suspect, was done purely for dramatic visual effect.

... the thrusters had to propel the entire weight of the submersible up off the bottom.

Actually, I can't agree with you there.  Remember that a submersible in the water column doesn't operate like a helicopter or a Harrier jump jet in the atmosphere.  It is more akin to an (extremely maneuverable) airship in that the pilot can trim ballast so the vehicle "weighs" less than two ounces .. or even so it becomes positively buoyant.  A full power thrust is not at all necessary to heave its bulk off the bottom, but it sure looks cool on camera.  I'm certain the spot near the Japanese midget sub wreck was carefully chosen and the shot staged so as not to disturb the artifact.

The real time presence of live eyes and brains aboard the HOVs (Human Occupied Vehicles) is a major advantage that means anything "interesting" can be spotted more reliably and investigated immediately.  Plus, the wide field of view, powerful lighting, and precision control afforded by the Pisces subs will allow for a more prudent and considered exploration of whatever promising targets are detected.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 16, 2014, 04:04:17 AM
Good point. Thanks Russ.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on August 16, 2014, 11:01:45 AM
Annnddddddddddddddd we're off!

I can say that because I live next door to Kentucky and that horsey-racey-thingy they do every year.

LTM, who never understood the appeal of Mint Juleps,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on August 16, 2014, 12:04:26 PM
The video is excellent, Ric - great thumbnail of the best of TIGHAR's efforts I think.

Hope it brings some big interest!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Jeff Scott on August 16, 2014, 01:35:36 PM
There sure is a is big gap between the $125 donation and $300,000 donation levels!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 16, 2014, 01:39:21 PM
There sure is a is big gap between the $125 donation and $300,000 donation levels!

True.  I added a bunch of new lower level "perks" but I'm having trouble coming up with rewards for $500, $1,000, $5,000, etc.

Ideas?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on August 16, 2014, 01:49:54 PM
Genuine sand from Niku for $500. A piece of living history.

One of the Electra coin banks for $5,000, if they've been unpacked.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 16, 2014, 02:03:12 PM
Genuine sand from Niku for $500. A piece of living history.

We have the sand, all nicely bottled in little jars.  If that stuff is alive I want to know about it! 
$500 sounds a bit steep to me but a thing is worth what someone will pay for it.

One of the Electra coin banks for $5,000, if they've been unpacked.

What Electra coin banks?  I don't remember any Electra coin banks. 
We had some Vega coin banks.  We auction a couple on Facebook. I think we have one left.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on August 17, 2014, 11:34:04 AM
VEGA coin banks, right! Not enough morning coffee. I got that crossed with the Electra wooden models venture.

The sand has a definite novelty value. And a certain "I have a piece of it" appeal. And don't ask me why I know that.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on August 17, 2014, 12:59:15 PM
A Vega coin bank???  My daughter would be most pleased with that. 


My bank account, on the other hand....


Im going to go out on a very fragile limb and offer a suggestion.  What if TIGHAR members uploaded their own videos, just short videos, talking about why the Earhart project is important to them. Maybe people could see the faces behind the faces. We all have our reasons why her story caught and held our attentions. Might help potential donors relate.  Just a thought. Please dont cut my limb down. :p
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 17, 2014, 01:03:46 PM
Im going to go out on a very fragile limb and offer a suggestion.  What if TIGHAR members uploaded their own videos, just short videos, talking about why the Earhart project is important to them. Maybe people could see the faces behind the faces. We all have our reasons why her story caught and held our attentions. Might help potential donors relate.  Just a thought. Please dont cut my limb down. :p

I like it.  We can embed videos in the "gallery" section of the Indiegogo campaign.  If you can make a sort video as Krystal suggests, just put it up on youtube and we should be able to download it from there.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on August 17, 2014, 01:08:36 PM
I know Im not "officially" a member yet, but if I can find someone to pilfer a video camera from, I'd like to contribute.


*Edited because I should not type without my glasses on.*
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 17, 2014, 01:22:39 PM
I know Im not "officially" a member yet, but if I can find somoene to pilfer a video camera from, I'd like to contribute.

Please do!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on August 18, 2014, 12:58:19 PM
Sweet Baby Jesus! I just looked at the funding website and then watched the total jump by almost $1,000 in 5 minutes! Now if that momentum would keep up!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 18, 2014, 01:20:58 PM
Sweet Baby Jesus! I just looked at the funding website and then watched the total jump by almost $1,000 in 5 minutes! Now if that momentum would keep up!


We sent out a TIGHARNews this morning urging all the members to visit the site and I added a bunch of new perks.  More to come plus illustrations of what stuff looks like. We'll probably also drop about $300 to hire an outfit that claims to be able to greatly increase our exposure. This crowd funding business is interesting.  You have to learn how to play the game.  You can't just set it up, sit back and wait for the money to roll in.  It requires constant attention and improvement.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on August 18, 2014, 01:25:48 PM
Im sharing it wherever I can.  How are movie studios not getting in on this?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on August 18, 2014, 01:45:27 PM
Im sharing it wherever I can.  How are movie studios not getting in on this?

They have at times dabbled so (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,59.0.html), and usually mess the facts up a bit.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on August 18, 2014, 01:55:30 PM
Agreed. I thought that movie was awful. Lots of eye candy though. I suppose if they made a movie about Niku, it would probably be equally cringe-worthy.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 18, 2014, 02:08:37 PM
Ohhhh no.  I can see this coming.  We are not going to play who plays who in the movie.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on August 18, 2014, 02:11:56 PM
WAIT!!!!!


*Grabs a bag of popcorn*



Ok....GO!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Paul March on August 18, 2014, 02:30:10 PM
Does the climate study continue to be within the scope of Niku VIII?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 18, 2014, 02:33:59 PM
Does the climate study continue to be within the scope of Niku VIII?

Yes.  We're not talking about it as much because that aspect of the trip did not generate any funding (apparently ocean science enthusiasts are as broke as we are) and the whole climate change thing seems to upset a lot of people.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on August 18, 2014, 02:41:36 PM
WHAT climate change... ?  ;D
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 18, 2014, 02:47:24 PM
WHAT climate change... ?  ;D

Like I said.....
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on August 18, 2014, 02:53:10 PM
Ric, having visited Niku so many times over the years, how has the shorline changed since the first time you visited? Ovbiously there has been damage and overwash from storms and the proliferation of various foliage but has the overall shorline changed, such as the reef flat? Do you notice that the tides seem lower or higher. Does the island seem like it changes or does it seem relatively the same? I always found it fascinating.  Its so far from nowhere and just sits there alone.  It has to be surreal every time you visit. 
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Mark Samuels on August 18, 2014, 04:23:16 PM
WHAT climate change... ?  ;D

This Climate Change..?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: pilotart on August 18, 2014, 08:04:28 PM
... and I added a bunch of new perks.  More to come plus illustrations of what stuff looks like. We'll probably also drop about $300 to hire an outfit that claims to be able to greatly increase our exposure. This crowd funding business is interesting.  You have to learn how to play the game.  You can't just set it up, sit back and wait for the money to roll in.  It requires constant attention and improvement.
It looks like you have an excellent presentation there.  Adding perks should increase response, but the surprising fact is that as of now, half or so of the donations have been 'perk-free' (if you add perks claimed compared to total received).

That indigo video with Betty in it was great, is that from one of the Discovery DVD's included with 'Research Membership'?  I'm too poor to visit gift shops, but since you have a preview on site, perhaps that/they would be a draw as a stand-alone perk.

Is there any way to keep the site active or restarted after August 31?

I would think that most 'Crowd-Funding' does have a true time-line for their projects, but TIGHAR in addition to being probably unique as a 501c3, most certainly qualifies as a true on-going project.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on August 18, 2014, 08:16:53 PM
Ric, having visited Niku so many times over the years, how has the shorline changed since the first time you visited? Ovbiously there has been damage and overwash from storms and the proliferation of various foliage but has the overall shorline changed, such as the reef flat? Do you notice that the tides seem lower or higher. Does the island seem like it changes or does it seem relatively the same? I always found it fascinating.  Its so far from nowhere and just sits there alone.  It has to be surreal every time you visit.

Krystal 

Yes, every time we get there it is surreal, a magical moment realized, with Nei Manganibuka presiding.  Hard to describe the experience, but it is a combination of expectation and imagination combined with the realization of reaching one of the most remote places on earth. 

The shoreline has changed a bit over time but not so much since we've started visiting the island.  There has been some discussion about storm damage between the 2001 and 2003 trips as observed by Howard Alldred during NIKU VP.  He observed what he believed was significant erosion and storm damage on the colonial village side of the landing channel, which was widely reported at the time.

One of the problems with Howard's observations is that he had not been there in 2001, and I subsequently showed through comparative photos that the same features that Howard attributed to storms between 2001 and 2003 were actually already there when we visited in 2001.

That said, the island certainly is subject to terrific storm and waves at times, including the colonial village shoreline, but the overall shoreline hasn't really changed much since the first aerial photos were taken.  In 2001, the Baureke passage was completely filled with sand, yet in 2007 and 2010 it was open and flowing.  The cloudiness of the lagoon was adversely affected in 2001 (the year we did most of the lagoon diving) without the secondary channel to the lagoon.

Somewhere Ric did an overlay of the 1939 aerial photo with the 2001? sat photo that revealed much of the changes in shoreline.  I'll see if I can dig it out.

In 2001, Gardner One, the Benchmark left by the NZ survey, was well within the sand bar just inside the passage, yet by 2010 it was standing out in the water by itself, so there definitely is movement of the shoreline with regards to the sand.  My impression is that it comes and goes, year by year.

There is some evidence - aerial photos - that the shore near the 7 site has grown over time towards the sea, perhaps 100-200 ft since 1940.

Overall, we can see in historical photos that things like the delta of sand on the inlet side of the main channel has grown over the last 50 years but the basic shoreline is remarkably similar to what it was in 1940.

Overall, the atoll is essentially growing on the eastern side and getting eroded on the western side, but I don't think we can attribute anything to sea level rise - just yet.  The effects of sea level rise are primarily to be seen in the future, but will be devastating to the current version of above high tide Nikumaroro.  Ultimately, the reef will adapt and grow to meet the new sea levels, as it has in the past, and there will be an island or at least a reef there, but the areas of human habitation between 1937 and 1963 may be completely underwater in the future.

I hope that helps your understanding.

Andrew
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on August 18, 2014, 08:23:35 PM
Id be interested to see if there are any takers on the ""Dinner With Ric."      :P
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on August 18, 2014, 08:27:58 PM
Andrew, I wont quote your post for the sake of space saving, but thank you for that description.  I can imagine what it must be like to see it come into view on the horizon.  You are certainly VERY lucky to be able to see that part of the world. 
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Tim Mellon on August 18, 2014, 08:33:30 PM

... and the whole climate change thing seems to upset a lot of people.

Fraud is very upsetting. It is usually related to some form of money grabbing.

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on August 18, 2014, 08:48:59 PM


Fraud is very upsetting. It is usually related to some form of money grabbing.

So is paradigm shift.  It is usually related to some form of entrenched money grabbing that doesn't like the change.

Andrew
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on August 18, 2014, 08:52:34 PM
Andrew, I wont quote your post for the sake of space saving, but thank you for that description.  I can imagine what it must be like to see it come into view on the horizon.  You are certainly VERY lucky to be able to see that part of the world.

Yup, when the island comes into view, especially after at least 3 days at sea, it is a magical moment.

I'm amazed that I've been able to get there 3 times in my life. 

I can only hope to return someday, it is a constant thought.

Andrew
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on August 18, 2014, 09:14:27 PM
Andrew, I wont quote your post for the sake of space saving, but thank you for that description.  I can imagine what it must be like to see it come into view on the horizon.  You are certainly VERY lucky to be able to see that part of the world.

Yup, when the island comes into view, especially after at least 3 days at sea, it is a magical moment.

I'm amazed that I've been able to get there 3 times in my life. 

I can only hope to return someday, it is a constant thought.

Andrew

.... Ive gotta come up with $30K. ........then there is my paralyzing fear of water....
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on August 18, 2014, 09:25:24 PM

[/quote]

.... Ive gotta come up with $30K. ........then there is my paralyzing fear of water....
[/quote]

Ha!  Believe it or not, there are NIKU veterans who can't swim, or suffer terrible seasickness, so these things can be overcome with the right motivation. 

There is always a moment during the trip up when you look out and see nothing but water, hours upon hours on end, and you realize that there is a whole lot of water out there covering this planet.  Makes one appreciate how small a place like Nikumaroro is, and how small we as individuals are in the grand scheme of things.

amck
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on August 18, 2014, 09:30:54 PM
Oh, I can swim. Im a strong swimmer....for fear of drowning!  Lets just say, if I ever went to Niku, you wouldnt find me wading across the lagoon inlet!  Forget being rammed by a shark.  Id probably end up as a side dish!




-Krystal "Shark Bait" McGinty
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Tim Gard on August 19, 2014, 05:40:03 AM
Do you notice that the tides seem lower or higher.
?

"Two of the longest continuous Australian tide gauge records are from Fremantle in Western Australia (92 years) and Fort Denison in New South Wales (83 years) indicate that the observed rate of sea-level rise relative to the land has been 1.38 mm/yr and 0.86 mm/yr respectively (see DPIWE 2004)."

 Measuring sea-level rise at Port Arthur (http://soer.justice.tas.gov.au/2009/copy/84/index.php)
Measured tide increase Port Arthur in Tasmania. (http://keyportarthur.org.au/extras/1044/The%20sea%20level%20at%20PA%20from%201841%20to%20present%20by%20John%20Hunter.pdf)

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Paul March on August 19, 2014, 10:28:56 AM
Does the climate study continue to be within the scope of Niku VIII?

Yes.  We're not talking about it as much because that aspect of the trip did not generate any funding (apparently ocean science enthusiasts are as broke as we are) and the whole climate change thing seems to upset a lot of people.

From my perspective, Niku VIII provides an opportunity for climate study which does not have to be associated with the polarizing issue of "climate change". The fact is that climate exists and is an interesting study apart from any politics. Science is science whether archaeological or otherwise and is crucial to exploration, education and overall advancement. Why not combine efforts when appropriate? Take time to enjoy the grey areas in life!  :)
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Tim Mellon on August 19, 2014, 06:26:37 PM


Fraud is very upsetting. It is usually related to some form of money grabbing.

So is paradigm shift.  It is usually related to some form of entrenched money grabbing that doesn't like the change.

Andrew

Andrew, there's really not much new about the globe warming: it has been the case for the last 20,000 years. Not really a paradigm shift.

What is new is the political hype, the disingenuous hockey stick by Michael Mann, and the bastardization of datasets to make political points. This is not science.

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on August 19, 2014, 08:10:58 PM
When it takes until mid-August to get above 90 degrees in St. Louis, SOMETHING is amiss. Be it man made or otherwise.  Oh boy. Now Ive done it.  Pardon me. I have to go offer a sacrificial goldfish to the Weather Gods now.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Steve Lee on August 19, 2014, 11:36:24 PM

What is new is the political hype, the disingenuous hockey stick by Michael Mann, and the bastardization of datasets to make political points. This is not science.


The political hype is not so new in the world of science anymore.  Anyone interested in understanding it works should read Merchants of Doubt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt), by Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Matt Revington on August 20, 2014, 06:44:38 AM
I don't think we should try to resolve the climate change debate in this forum, from what I seen in other forums the two very entrenched, antagonistic viewpoints quickly lead to lack of civility and  nothing gets resolved.  Civility, at least compared to most sites on the internet, is one of things I like about this forum.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on August 20, 2014, 08:35:45 AM
Agree, eye on the ball here is best.  Not good to see 'the chase' mired in that debate, IMO.

There is actually some discussion under a different / more appropriate thread here, for those who must.  That said, overt political discussion is actually out of place on an educational tax-exempt, non-profit site like TIGHAR as I understand it.

Not that any mention of this particular topic doesn't now carry some degree of de facto political coloring, per se, in today's 'environment'...  ::)
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 20, 2014, 08:54:57 AM
There is actually some discussion under a different / more appropriate thread here, for those who must.  That said, overt political discussion is actually out of place on an educational tax-exempt, non-profit site like TIGHAR as I understand it.

As a 501 c3 nonprofit TIGHAR is prohibited from political activity - not that we have any desire anyway.  TIGHAR's position on climate change has nothing to do with politics and is based on direct observation of Nikumaroro over a period of 25 years.  There is absolutely no doubt that there has been more and increasing storm damage to the atoll in the past quarter century than in the preceding 174 years (since the first description of the island by the U.S. Exploring Expedition in 1840).

Not that any mention of this particular topic doesn't now carry some degree of de facto political coloring, per se, in today's 'environment'...  ::)

Sad but true.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Paul March on August 20, 2014, 08:59:57 AM
Feel free to cast stones my way for posing the question...  :-X
Moving right along on the topic of Niku VIII funding  ;D
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 20, 2014, 09:20:25 AM
I was wondering how you go about trying to gather corporate funding?  Do you activly persue a list of likely interested parties or is it a case of waiting for them?

If we had a list of interested corporations we'd pursue them.  It's easy too think of corporations who, in our opinion, SHOULD be interested but experienced has shown that cold-calling those companies is time-intensive and produces only polite rejection letters.   If you have an "in" with a major corporation (i.e. someone who has credibility with the company and will go to bat for you), it's a whole 'nuther story.  What has worked for us in the past is to make our need known as widely as possible and invite interested parties, corporate or otherwise, to get in touch.

Have you considered hiring a specialist in this area (if such a thing exisits) or is the cost prohibative.

There is no shortage of professional fund raisers who will promise the moon.  We dropped about $10,000 on one when we were trying to complete the Niku VII budget and got exactly zero return.

Not that you'd say but any larger offers on the table at the moment?

If there was an offer on the table I'd tell you.   I would not divulge names or details until the deal was done but you guys deserve to know if there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 21, 2014, 07:59:31 AM
with the crowd sourcing project how does it work if the total isn’t met?  Do the pledges revert back to the people or do TIGHAR benefit from it (and of course the pledges)?

Crowd sourcing programs differ.  With Kickstarter it's all or nothing.  If you don't meet your goal the pledges go unfulfilled.
With Indiegogo you get the money whether or not you reach your goal. That's perfect of us because our project is on-going whether or not we get enough funding to go this year.

Indiegogo also take a smaller cut for approved nonprofits like TIGHAR, but for nonprofits they only do credit card transactions.  No PayPal.  That's a down-side.  Making a PayPal donation is easier than dragging our your credit card, copying the numbers, etc. All the Indiegogo donations go through a third party that processes them and holds the funds until the campaign ends.  We get a check 15 days later.

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Kent Beuchert on August 21, 2014, 12:59:15 PM
My advice to Ric would be that he avoid any claims about global warming, even
if he believes he somehow has evidence of same. Climate is a very broad subject
and has virtually no agreed-upon theories, despite John Cook's absurd claim that
97% of climatologists agree (on a vague "something") and a consensus exists.
Since warming ceased in 1999, we now have 33 published, various , mostly
contradictory explanations for what some have called a "pause" in global warming.
Some consensus.
Obviously, any events that have popped up in the past 16 years cannot have any
connection to global warming, since there has been none.
Nor have any of the many studies shown the slightest statistical correlation between
warming and extreme weather events, despite having more than a hundred years'
worth of weather record data  to analyze.  At this point only the most out-of-it,
extreme global warming alarmists claims any connection. The IPCC doesn't, nor does any
reputable scientific organization or periodical.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 21, 2014, 01:14:52 PM
My advice to Ric would be that he avoid any claims about global warming, even
if he believes he somehow has evidence of same.
My advice to Mr. Beuchert is to post his opinions about climate change to the Global Warming topic in Extraeneous Exchanges. Further postings on that subject in this thread will be removed.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 21, 2014, 01:35:33 PM
Did I read somewhere that the mini subs may not be available for 2015 as the funding for them has been pulled and the University are going to sell them?  Could be wrong.

If that were the case is there a plan B for 2015 in terms of finding similar submersibles.  I presume the funding raised for them will be ring fenced if 2014 doesn't go ahead.

Whether the subs will be available in 2015 is still very much up in the air.  The funding being raised is for the Niku VIII expedition and will be used to make that expedition happen.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Brad Beeching on August 21, 2014, 04:39:02 PM
Ric, If funding cannot be raised for this year, and these submersibles are no longer available, are there other simular submersibles capable of doing what you need them to do out there? And if so, how far in advance is required to try and book the vessels? I guess what I was thinking was this: If you can't pull the trigger on Niku VIII this year, would you be shooting for the 2015 season or due to booking schedules, be forced to go for the 2016 season?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 21, 2014, 05:18:35 PM
Ric, If funding cannot be raised for this year, and these submersibles are no longer available, are there other simular submersibles capable of doing what you need them to do out there?

At this time we are not aware of other submersibles that have the nimbleness and track record of the Pisces subs.  There is a Plan B in the works whereby KOK and the Pisces subs would do a three month scientific survey in 2015 of all of the atolls and seamounts within the Phoenix Islands Protected Area (PIPA). TIGHAR would have the boat for part of that trip.  We'd swap crews in Pago Pago when KOK was there for re-provisioning.  Staging out of Pago instead of Oahu would mean only three days each way transit time instead of nine. We'd still want ten days on site so we'd have a sixteen day charter instead of twenty-eight.  Huge savings.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Tim Mellon on August 21, 2014, 05:49:14 PM
Ric, If funding cannot be raised for this year, and these submersibles are no longer available, are there other simular submersibles capable of doing what you need them to do out there?

At this time we are not aware of other submersibles that have the nimbleness and track record of the Pisces subs.  There is a Plan B in the works whereby KOK and the Pisces subs would do a three month scientific survey in 2015 of all of the atolls and seamounts within the Phoenix Islands Protected Area (PIPA). TIGHAR would have the boat for part of that trip.  We'd swap crews in Pago Pago when KOK was there for re-provisioning.  Staging out of Pago instead of Oahu would mean only three days each way transit time instead of nine. We'd still want ten days on site so we'd have a sixteen day charter instead of twenty-eight.  Huge savings.

If this were the case, wouldn't it be more prudent to plan this expedition as Plan A?

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 21, 2014, 06:51:41 PM
If this were the case, wouldn't it be more prudent to plan this expedition as Plan A?

If it was a done deal - yes - but it's still pie-in-the-sky with many obstacles to clear, and besides, I only learned about it yesterday.
The expedition staffed and scheduled for this year is the proverbial bird in the hand. If there's any way we can grab it, we should.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: matt john barth on August 22, 2014, 12:23:41 PM
I don't think we should try to resolve the climate change debate in this forum, from what I seen in other forums the two very entrenched, antagonistic viewpoints quickly lead to lack of civility and  nothing gets resolved.  Civility, at least compared to most sites on the internet, is one of things I like about this forum.


I agree with that statement.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Tim Mellon on August 22, 2014, 02:35:31 PM
I don't think we should try to resolve the climate change debate in this forum, from what I seen in other forums the two very entrenched, antagonistic viewpoints quickly lead to lack of civility and  nothing gets resolved.  Civility, at least compared to most sites on the internet, is one of things I like about this forum.

Personally, I see no reason to avoid discussion of controversial topics. After all, the matter has been moved to another thread:

Quote
Extraneous exchanges

Personal remarks, commentary, humor, asides, miscellany. A great place to make test posts and to practice using the forum system. A catch-all for what doesn't fit in the other boards.

Civility need not be a victim. When I was a child, we were not allowed to talk about politics, sex, or religion at the dinner table. I am no longer a child.


Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on August 22, 2014, 04:30:01 PM
From the newsletter of the Nai'a, the ship TIGHAR has used for many expeditions to Nikumaroro.

Nice of them to make the fund raising pitch.

amck


<<<<<<<<
Finding Amelia
NAI’A’s relationship with TIGHAR and the Phoenix Islands goes all the way back to 1997 when we made the five-day passage to Nikumaroro for the first time, supporting TIGHAR on their “once and for all” expedition to find Amelia Earhart.

But they didn’t find her. They found some tantalizing clues, but no smoking gun. Two years later they chartered NAI’A to go back to Nikumaroro. Then again in September, 2001, where the team heard about the world-changing events in America via satphone from about the most remote vantage there is. NAI’A took TIGHAR back to Nikumaroro again in 2007 and finally in 2010 before their search outgrew us.

An accidental side effect of these expeditions is that we discovered an underwater ocean oasis like no-one had ever seen. So between TIGHAR expeditions, NAI’A returned to the Phoenix Islands to document the robust marine ecosystem there. Research expeditions in 2000 and 2002 led directly to Kiribati’s decision to create the Phoenix Islands Protected Area and in 2010 the Phoenix Islands became the world’s largest marine World Heritage Site. For more details, see our website: Phoenix Islands.

We swallowed the TIGHAR cool-aid a long time ago. Their evidence for where and why Amelia crashed makes complete sense to us and, having been to Nikumaroro nine times, we completely understand why finding her isn’t as easy as strolling down the beach to where the airplane wreckage lies. All of the evidence points to Amelia’s airplane having been high and dry for several days before disappearing from the radio waves and from the sight of Navy aviators who flew over Nikumaroro a week after she disappeared. Her plane must have been washed off the reef edge, probably by waves like those we encountered at Nikumaroro on our first expedition in 1997.

We’ve dived deeper than you really ought to all along the slope where Amelia’s plane most likely crash landed. And we put small ROVs in the water to look even deeper. But the reef slope is so steep and deep that a proper search takes serious technology beyond what NAI’A can support. TIGHAR went back to Nikumaroro two years ago on a University of Hawaii research ship and their AUV (Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) identified a series of sonar hits that are the right size and shape for Amelia’s Electra, sitting on a shelf at 380 meters. Technological snafus resulted in the information being hidden until the post-voyage analysis, so no-one has put eyes on it yet.

TIGHAR has an expedition all teed up to go back to Nikumaroro this year on the same University of Hawaii ship to take two three-person subs down to check out the sonar signature. But big ships and submarines are expensive (although I’m amazed how good a deal UH is offering) and TIGHAR needs to raise more than a million dollars in the next 11 days to pay for the expedition. This expedition has nothing at all to do with NAI’A, but we would love for TIGHAR to find Amelia’s plane, for once and for all!

TIGHAR has organized a crowdfunding project with Indiegogo and if you are interested in helping support this expedition, please go to https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/we-can-find-amelia-earhart.

Best fishes from Rob Barrel and the NAI'A Family
>>>>>>>>>>>
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 22, 2014, 04:31:43 PM
I can't say enough about Rob Barrel. One of the finest men I know.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on August 23, 2014, 04:35:43 PM
TIGHAR cannot get a warmer or more enthusiastic endorsement than that.  It is a reflection of deeply rooted good will and having clearly left a very positive impression of the efforts made on those voyages.  Excellent.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on August 25, 2014, 05:45:50 PM
I'm hoping that those positive impressions will spill over into a more all-embracing response from the public to TIGHAR's first crowd-funding effort.

LTM, who does what he can, when he can,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Oskar Erich Heinrich Haberlandt on September 01, 2014, 04:02:11 AM
Ric,
as it seems, time ran out. There will be no NIKU VIII this year. Many will be disappointed, me too! But you did your best!
Oskar #4421A
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on September 01, 2014, 11:42:20 AM
Its a terrible disappointment. I was watching it right up until it ended.  Well, whats one more year?  There will be plenty of other fundraising opportunities. Gotta keep looking ahead.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: John B. Shattuck on September 02, 2014, 06:19:04 AM
Like World Cup Football (soccer) matches, more time can sometimes be added....and dramatic things can happen.  I for one, am waiting for referee Ric to blow the whistle and call it...

JB
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Tim Collins on September 02, 2014, 06:29:28 AM
Has the official word been given?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Oskar Erich Heinrich Haberlandt on September 02, 2014, 10:24:20 AM
Like World Cup Football (soccer) matches, more time can sometimes be added....and dramatic things can happen.  I for one, am waiting for referee Ric to blow the whistle and call it...

JB

Maybe the referee has lost his whistle?  :o
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on September 02, 2014, 03:34:56 PM
The official word is given. No Niku VIII this year.  We'll reschedule for next year.  The board is currently considering options. We'll make a decision very soon. 
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on September 02, 2014, 05:43:09 PM
More time to give this crowd funding effort time to work. I like that with this outfit, TIGHAR gets to keep whatever was pledged. I assume there are people with expertise in this method but I can't say if it would be worth hiring them to potentially increase the final amount.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on October 02, 2014, 12:32:55 PM
So ... now that there is a new expedition date, are we going to dust off the crowd funding resources? Count me in regardless.

LTM, who sometimes needs all his fingers to count,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 02, 2014, 01:21:07 PM
So ... now that there is a new expedition date, are we going to dust off the crowd funding resources?

Our foray into crowd funding was an interesting experiment and quite an education.  It's easy to think that a subject as widely popular as solving the Earhart mystery would be a prime candidate for crowd funding.  That's why we tried it. The reality is that the key to crowd funding is reaching the crowd who might fund you. At any given moment there are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of crowd funding campaigns going on a mind-boggling variety of platforms (We chose Indiegogo because it's second in size to Kickstarter and, unlike Kickstarter, you can set it up so that you receive the money you raise even if you don't reach your goal.) You can't rely on people just stumbling across you campaign.  You have to go out "on the street" and ask people to come visit your campaign. Most of the people who visit your campaign are shopping for "perks."  You have to have a selection of goodies for them to "buy." During the time our campaign was running I spent at least two hours every day setting up,improving, maintaining and promoting it.  What you want is for people who do visit and contribute to spread the word to their friends.  Some do. Some don't. It's like priming the pump.  Clearly we do not have a big enough following to prime the crowd funding pump. Setting up and servicing a campaign to raise $10,000 takes just as much time as for a million dollar campaign. We got a total of about $4,100 in donations.  After Indiegogo took their cut, we ended up with a check for $3,600 sent about three weeks after the campaign ended.  Not worth it.
Lesson #1 -  Before you go crowd funding you need to have a really big following that you can direct to your campaign.   
 
Count me in regardless.

Bless you.  This is a particularly crucial time.
The level of funding needed for the 2015 Niku VIII expedition is a fraction of the 2014 expedition budget, but we still have payment deadlines that must be met.

The Nai’a charter will cost $264,0000 plus an estimated $12,000 in fuel.

• An initial deposit of $41,300 must be paid by the end of October, otherwise the boat will be released for other charters.  At this writing we have $11,900 in hand toward that goal.  We have firm pledges for another $15,000. Needless to say, it is essential that we meet this goal if there is to be an expedition in 2015. Please do what you can now.

• A payment of $111,350 is due December 10, 2014.  Our plan is to raise this amount primarily through the sale of Sponsor Team Member berths. We have three available for $50,000 each.  We have a number of prospects but nothing firm yet.

• A final payment of  $111,350 is due March 10, 2015.  The fuel estimate must be paid before departure. We have a pledge from a major foundation to cover the last $100,000 so if we can make the December payment we’re in good shape to complete the budget. 

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 02, 2014, 03:51:39 PM
I worked a considerable amount of overtime this past 2 weeks with the meltdown in ZAU. (Who took that guys red Swingline stapler???)  Lemme look over some finances and see what I can spare.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 02, 2014, 05:45:07 PM
Been taking a back seat on forum of late, Thought it would be nice for newer members to get involved in discussions and bring new idea's to the table.

This isn't the place to do it Richie.  This is no joke.  We need to raise this money or there won't be a Niku VIII.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on October 02, 2014, 06:10:55 PM
All joking aside, a check is inbound yours. Check the mailman's saddlebag in the next few days as he ambles past.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: richie conroy on October 02, 2014, 06:17:24 PM
Ric

No one is more gutted than myself about this years expedition being cancelled, my hobby turned to obsession a long time ago that's why i believe we need a new approach to the way we come across to crowd funding sources 

Thanks Richie
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Bruce Thomas on October 03, 2014, 06:19:53 AM
Richie raises a good point on the jar worth clarifying but it's hard to do that in a thread devoted to a far more important matter, which is funding the next expedition.  Perhaps Richie's post with the jars photo could be transferred to the Jar Report thread by a global moderator?

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078RC
Richie's post has been moved (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1337.msg34171.html#msg34171).
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Bill Richards on October 03, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
"Before you go crowd funding you need to have a really big following that you can direct to your campaign."

Ric - Don't give up on crowd funding yet.  If 2-2-V-1 starts putting out more smoke after Wichita or the 2015 Niku VIII comes up with additional wood for the fire and the frigging news media picks up the coverage then crowd funding may be a good way to go.  Obviously your sojourn into crowd funding has generated some good lessons learned and IMHO added another tool to your bag.  Keep the faith and stay the course!

wildbill
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on October 04, 2014, 01:50:30 PM
Ric makes a valid point about crowd funding - it's great if you have an elastic deadline and a project that can be indefinitely postponed, as you slowly raise the money.

That is not the case with Niku VIII, which is constricted by several parameters that TIGHAR really has no control over. Since we are a lean organization, we have to balance resources expended against returns expected.

Am I saying we give up on crowd funding? No, of course not. It may still be the goose that lays the proverbial golden goodie. But we need to pursue other more realistic avenues that hold out the hope of a much quicker return.

Or so it seems to me.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: New Artifact Report: A Freckle in Time
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 05, 2014, 10:53:51 PM
An advert as in, what exactly?  Television? Radio? Billboards? These avenues, while ambitious,  are astronomically expensive for a small non-profit. While you might find someone willing to run it for free, you still have to secure production costs. Ric has put out some very compelling videos via Youtube. One would think that a mass social-media sharing event of those videos would be more cost effective and possibly reach just as many people.

  I had suggested, during the indieogo event, that TIGHARs post videos explaining how the Earhart project is significant to them, and to reveal what it was about Earhart and her disappearance that caught and held their attention.  Its easy for a non-profit to get lost behind the "faces" of the organization. They could be uploaded to The TIGHAR youtube channel and shared via facebook and other social media.  I think if the general public saw the enormous following that TIGHAR has, and could hear their reasons for continued support, they might be  encouraged to join in.

As far as making a blanket statement that "If found, a certain amount of proceeds will go to charity' etc. I personally feel that it could come off as a little pretentious and could send the wrong message: That TIGHAR is trying to solve the Earhart mystery for personal profit and fame, rather than for the preservation of an important part of aviation history.  Only Ric and his team can determine if that is the right angle to take.

Just my two bits.

Edited - J. Neville: This post was moved FROM 'Freckle in Time' as fundraising was the point (in reponse to Richie's dual-purpose post, which itself was moved  (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1539.msg34182.html#msg34182) TO 'Freckle...' (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1337.msg34171.html#msg34171) due to profound technical content... confusing, know whut ah mean?  :P)
Title: Re: New Artifact Report: A Freckle in Time
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 10, 2014, 04:31:33 PM
As far as making a blanket statement that "If found, a certain amount of proceeds will go to charity' etc. I personally feel that it could come off as a little pretentious and could send the wrong message: That TIGHAR is trying to solve the Earhart mystery for personal profit and fame, rather than for the preservation of an important part of aviation history.  Only Ric and his team can determine if that is the right angle to take.

Somebody doesn't get it.  100% of proceeds will go to charity.  TIGHAR is a recognized 501 c 3 public charity.  TIGHAR's is the ONLY effort to solve the Earhart mystery - present or past - that is not a personal or corporate commercial venture. 
Title: Re: New Artifact Report: A Freckle in Time
Post by: JNev on October 10, 2014, 08:53:29 PM
Somebody doesn't get it.  100% of proceeds will go to charity.  TIGHAR is a recognized 501 c 3 public charity.  TIGHAR's is the ONLY effort to solve the Earhart mystery - present or past - that is not a personal or corporate commercial venture.

I hadn't given that much thought to it before, Ric, but seems you are right (if Waitt Institute isn't - I guess it's a private foundation?).

What are the principle reasons for setting up shop as a 501 c 3 instead of as a private entity?  It is an interesting contrast and I'm sure there are all kinds of reasons, but like I said I just hadn't really considered the point so much before.

Colin Cobb's 'Stratus' organization is an 'offshore' (non-US, apparently Irish) so not IRS regulated, but is it private, or an Irish government subsidized outfit or something similar?  Don't know, hadn't thought about that either, really.  I guess it is just the ideas of operation behind the founding of such an entity that would drive it one way or the other (private for profit vs. public not for profit).
Title: Re: New Artifact Report: A Freckle in Time
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 11, 2014, 01:13:22 AM
As far as making a blanket statement that "If found, a certain amount of proceeds will go to charity' etc. I personally feel that it could come off as a little pretentious and could send the wrong message: That TIGHAR is trying to solve the Earhart mystery for personal profit and fame, rather than for the preservation of an important part of aviation history.  Only Ric and his team can determine if that is the right angle to take.

Somebody doesn't get it.  100% of proceeds will go to charity.  TIGHAR is a recognized 501 c 3 public charity.  TIGHAR's is the ONLY effort to solve the Earhart mystery - present or past - that is not a personal or corporate commercial venture.

I didnt mean this as "it doesn't go to a good cause.."   I took it as offers to "donate to an outside organization" in exchange for donations to help solve the case. No disrespect intended. Ill grab my pompoms and go back to the corner.

-Krystal "TIGHAR Cheerleader" McGinty.
Title: Re: New Artifact Report: A Freckle in Time
Post by: JNev on October 11, 2014, 03:40:56 AM
As far as making a blanket statement that "If found, a certain amount of proceeds will go to charity' etc. I personally feel that it could come off as a little pretentious and could send the wrong message: That TIGHAR is trying to solve the Earhart mystery for personal profit and fame, rather than for the preservation of an important part of aviation history.  Only Ric and his team can determine if that is the right angle to take.

Somebody doesn't get it.  100% of proceeds will go to charity.  TIGHAR is a recognized 501 c 3 public charity.  TIGHAR's is the ONLY effort to solve the Earhart mystery - present or past - that is not a personal or corporate commercial venture.

I didnt mean this as "it doesn't go to a good cause.."   I took it as offers to "donate to an outside organization" in exchange for donations to help solve the case. No disrespect intended. Ill grab my pompoms and go back to the corner.

-Krystal "TIGHAR Cheerleader" McGinty.

No dis, no corners!  Watch the pom poms, they can ruffle the eyes...  :P

I think what Ric is reminding us of is that TIGHAR IS an "outside organization", so to speak.  Meaning, I think, that it is not set up as a profitable corporation that in turn might 'return' something from profits to charity - technically speaking, there are by definition no profits.  It may be that an advantage is seen by it being geared more toward maximizing donations toward a common goal that donors ascribe to.
Title: Re: New Artifact Report: A Freckle in Time
Post by: JNev on October 11, 2014, 03:42:10 AM
Somebody doesn't get it.  100% of proceeds will go to charity.  TIGHAR is a recognized 501 c 3 public charity.  TIGHAR's is the ONLY effort to solve the Earhart mystery - present or past - that is not a personal or corporate commercial venture.


Colin Cobb's 'Stratus' organization is an 'offshore' (non-US, apparently Irish) so not IRS regulated, but is it private, or an Irish government subsidized outfit or something similar?  Don't know, hadn't thought about that either, really.  I guess it is just the ideas of operation behind the founding of such an entity that would drive it one way or the other (private for profit vs. public not for profit).

I can't answer that BUT would like to respectively point out that Colin is based in Belfast that is a part of the United Kingdom so would be British.  I know you guys sometimes get a bit confused with the whole green issue  ;)

BTW this is on the website
Quote
We have applied for 'not for profit' status. Our application is pending at present.

A thousand pardons, Chris, thanks.  And thanks for the dope from 'Stratus' - I'm sure the UK has its own version of the 'not for profit' that is schematically similar to that of the US.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 11, 2014, 07:25:10 AM
There seems to be a lot of confusion and misconception about the American system of charitable giving.  For example, "nonprofit" organizations are free to make all the "profit" they can. What they CAN'T do is distribute profit to shareholders or investors.  The money must be used for the organization's "exempt purpose" (in TIGHAR's case, historical studies and education).
When I find some time I'll elaborate. 
Title: Re: New Artifact Report: A Freckle in Time
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 11, 2014, 10:13:09 AM


Quote
No dis, no corners!  Watch the pom poms, they can ruffle the eyes...  :P

I think what Ric is reminding us of is that TIGHAR IS an "outside organization", so to speak.  Meaning, I think, that it is not set up as a profitable corporation that in turn might 'return' something from profits to charity - technically speaking, there are by definition no profits.  It may be that an advantage is seen by it being geared more toward maximizing donations toward a common goal that donors ascribe to.

Rah rah....and stuff. :p I'm obviously having an embarrassingly difficult time getting my point across. Let my sleep-deprived self try this again.

Making a preemptive statement that "If everyone donates and we are able to get to Niku next year AND we are able to find the Electra, we will donate X amount of money to United Way/ UNICEF/ Save the Cookie Monster etc."  COULD come across as "We expect a to make a massive profit  off of your small donation." (Mind you, I IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY think this about TIGHAR.)   You know, I know, we all know that the discovery of the Electra will be huge. Not just huge. Suborbital. It will be monumental turn in the history of aviation and will generate new following and new support AND any money that comes of it will undoubtedly be put back into TIGHAR to fund new projects.  But we have all been following this for a long time. The, often uninformed, general public tends to make their own assumptions, and those assumptions are not always correct. I work with two non profits, charities to help burn survivors and their families, and like TIGHAR, they are very noble causes but there are people who scrutinize their every move, right down to what kind of food they serve during fundraising events. People have gone so far as to question the heads of one of the organizations (A husband and wife. The husband nearly lost his life to catastrophic burns) if ANY of the money they raise goes to help ANYONE, and three people have sued (Unsuccessfully)  for feeling that enough money didn't go to a specific person/event/fund etc.   Im just saying, its a fine line. Im not questioning TIGHAR's status as a non profit in any way.

Did that come out any better? No? Ok. More coffee.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on October 11, 2014, 10:29:05 AM
Husband/wife teams running nonprofits being vilified?   Nonprofits being sued by donors?  Unheard of!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on October 11, 2014, 11:54:19 AM
Husband/wife teams running nonprofits being vilified?   Nonprofits being sued by donors?  Unheard of!

I know, right?!
Title: Re: New Artifact Report: A Freckle in Time
Post by: JNev on October 12, 2014, 08:52:09 PM


Quote
No dis, no corners!  Watch the pom poms, they can ruffle the eyes...  :P

I think what Ric is reminding us of is that TIGHAR IS an "outside organization", so to speak.  Meaning, I think, that it is not set up as a profitable corporation that in turn might 'return' something from profits to charity - technically speaking, there are by definition no profits.  It may be that an advantage is seen by it being geared more toward maximizing donations toward a common goal that donors ascribe to.

Rah rah....and stuff. :p I'm obviously having an embarrassingly difficult time getting my point across. Let my sleep-deprived self try this again.

Making a preemptive statement that "If everyone donates and we are able to get to Niku next year AND we are able to find the Electra, we will donate X amount of money to United Way/ UNICEF/ Save the Cookie Monster etc."  COULD come across as "We expect a to make a massive profit  off of your small donation." (Mind you, I IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY think this about TIGHAR.)   You know, I know, we all know that the discovery of the Electra will be huge. Not just huge. Suborbital. It will be monumental turn in the history of aviation and will generate new following and new support AND any money that comes of it will undoubtedly be put back into TIGHAR to fund new projects.  But we have all been following this for a long time. The, often uninformed, general public tends to make their own assumptions, and those assumptions are not always correct. I work with two non profits, charities to help burn survivors and their families, and like TIGHAR, they are very noble causes but there are people who scrutinize their every move, right down to what kind of food they serve during fundraising events. People have gone so far as to question the heads of one of the organizations (A husband and wife. The husband nearly lost his life to catastrophic burns) if ANY of the money they raise goes to help ANYONE, and three people have sued (Unsuccessfully)  for feeling that enough money didn't go to a specific person/event/fund etc.   Im just saying, its a fine line. Im not questioning TIGHAR's status as a non profit in any way.

Did that come out any better? No? Ok. More coffee.

I think the point is, TIGHAR's 'exempt purpose' does not include raising monies for UW, etc., but for the research and education stated in her charter.

Ric's made a good point - that such an organization may be very profitable - but the difference between it and a private concern or publicly held corporation, etc. is that there are no share holders receiving 'profits', rather the 'profits' must be plowed back into the 'exempt purpose' (its reason for existing as a tax exempt entity) of the organization.

You both have made the point very clearly that 'non-profit' status hardly takes an organization out of scrutiny's way, and there will always be those who question how they are run, right down to the quality of the chicken salad served at a fund-raiser... stock-funded publicly held corporations get the same from share holders, trust me, right down to CEO salary, and chicken salad served at the annual meeting...
Title: Re: New Artifact Report: A Freckle in Time
Post by: Monty Fowler on October 13, 2014, 09:55:15 AM
... stock-funded publicly held corporations get the same from share holders, trust me, right down to CEO salary, and chicken salad served at the annual meeting...

Waitttttt ... you guys get chicken salad?!?!?!?!?! I thought there was something lacking the day-old donuts and cold coffee approach of my stockholder's meetings ...

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Jeff Palshook on November 01, 2014, 03:34:30 PM
Ric,

On October 02, you reported in this thread that an initial deposit of $41,300 was due to be paid by October 31 to reserve the Nai'a.  Of that $41,300, $14,400 still needed to be raised as of Oct. 02.  It's now November 1.  What is the status of making that Oct. 31 payment?

You also reported that an additional $111,350 is due to be paid for the Nai'a charter by December 10.  What is the status of raising that sum to meet the Dec. 10 payment deadline?

Jeff P.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on November 01, 2014, 04:09:09 PM
On October 02, you reported in this thread that an initial deposit of $41,300 was due to be paid by October 31 to reserve the Nai'a.  Of that $41,300, $14,400 still needed to be raised as of Oct. 02.  It's now November 1.  What is the status of making that Oct. 31 payment?

The $41,300 deposit payment has been paid.  A huge THANK YOU to all who contributed.

You also reported that an additional $111,350 is due to be paid for the Nai'a charter by December 10.  What is the status of raising that sum to meet the Dec. 10 payment deadline?

Looking good.  Our first of three $50,000 Sponsor Team Members just committed today.  We are in discussion with six other applicants.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on November 01, 2014, 04:31:56 PM
TIGHAR Niku VIII Team Supporters

For those of you who have (or know people who have) American Express (AMEX) rewards points and wish to support TIGHAR by donating up to 500,000 points this year, you can convert those points to cash in TIGHAR's pocket through the following process.


Info on the Members Give program can be found here:

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/content/members-give.html

 Log on to your Amex Account online

Look for the Rewards section

Select  "MORE WAYS TO USE POINTS"

Select "Members Give"

Select the link under REDEEM NOW
https://amex.justgive.org/basket?acton=logout

To avoid duplicate steps later in the process, the best thing to do is create an AMEX Members Give user name and password in advance of trying to donate points.  If you don't do this step first, they will make you do it in the middle of the process, and then you have to start all over again.


Once you have an account with JustGive.org, you should be able to donate AMEX Rewards points to TIGHAR

Select "GIVING BASKET" at the top right

Under "Create your Giving Basket" select "Add Charities"

In the "Search for a Charity Here" box, type in International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery and press GO

On the right, select "Donate Now"

You will be given a choice of donating cash via your AMEX card, or points up to 500,000 points in a calendar year at $10 for every 1000 points, i.e. 500,000 points = $5,000.  If you donate more than 500,000 points, the formula is $5 per 1000 points, so I'd recommend not giving more than 500,000 points this year, and if inclined donate again after Jan 1, 2015.

You will go through a check out process and receive an email confirmation.

TIGHAR should receive the cash equivalent for your points in something like 6 weeks - right about when the next payment is due.

Using AMEX points is a relatively painless way for folks to donate, and a lot of businessmen have a stash of points built up due to business purchases. 

Other frequent flyer programs may have a way to donate the points or cash value to TIGHAR.

Just an alternative way to ask for support.


Thanks in advance to anyone who donates through this channel. 

Andrew
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on November 01, 2014, 06:50:53 PM
Thanks Andrew.  I've been meeting to post your tutorial on the AMEX Members Give program but for the last few days I've been buried in media.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on November 01, 2014, 07:50:46 PM
Thanks Andrew.  I've been meeting to post your tutorial on the AMEX Members Give program but for the last few days I've been buried in media.

Ill bet!  This is such great news! I hope the renewed media attention is garnering more support.  Wish I could be one of the $50K contributors.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on November 02, 2014, 12:22:13 PM
Wish I could be one of the $50K contributors.

$50,000 at one go is really, good, BUT - let's all remember, The People are going to find Amelia and Fred. Every donation is important because it pushes us one tiny step closer to the ultimate goal.

I do what I can, when I can, and I encourage everyone reading this to do the same. Remember, the Great Pyramid is a bunch of relatively small stones piled up into something that is, well, Amazing.

LTM, and another check will be on its way today,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR no. 2189 ECSP
Title: Amazon 'Smile' Automatic Charity Donations
Post by: pilotart on November 03, 2014, 07:45:39 AM
Great idea prompted by this thread.

I have been a frequent Amazon Prime customer for years.

This year, they added the "Amazon Smile" Program which
automatically donates to a charity of your choice for each purchase:
Quote
What is AmazonSmile?
AmazonSmile is a simple and automatic way for you to support your favorite charitable organization every time you shop, at no cost to you. When you shop at smile.amazon.com, you’ll find the exact same low prices, vast selection and convenient shopping experience as Amazon.com, with the added bonus that Amazon will donate a portion of the purchase price to your favorite charitable organization. You can choose from nearly one million organizations to support.
Their 'Turbo-Tax' Deal added 10% to my Tax Refund this year in the form of an Amazon Gift Card which greatly increased my spending there ($2500+ since tax refund)
Quote
How much of my purchase does Amazon donate?
The AmazonSmile Foundation will donate 0.5% of the purchase price
http://tinyurl.com/kcpaxl2 (http://tinyurl.com/kcpaxl2)

When you go to select your 'Amazon Smile' Charity, just Search TIGHAR
or tighar and Amazon will instantly show:
Quote
The International Group For Historic Aircraft Recovery
Location: Oxford, PA
To Promote Responsible Aviation Archaelogy And Historic Preservation

Categories: Historical Societies and Related Activities

› Change your charity
Thanks to the prompt from this thread, I just changed my charity to TIGHAR.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ricker H Jones on November 03, 2014, 08:03:52 AM
Thanks, Art...I just signed up on the Amazon Smile program with Tighar as the charity in time to do my Christmas shopping.
Rick
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on November 03, 2014, 10:31:07 AM
This is wonderful!  Thanks you guys!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Michael Calvin Powell on November 03, 2014, 10:57:21 AM
Installing the Amazon "smile" shortcut is remarkably easy and quick - and allows us all to donate at no cost to ourselves.  Why wouldn't every one do it?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Kurt Kummer on November 03, 2014, 01:17:17 PM
I just signed up too.  Took about 10 seconds on Amazon's site.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on November 03, 2014, 01:25:01 PM
Ric

The AMEX and Amazon gifting is something you should put up on the Facebook page to give it wider audience.

amck
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on November 03, 2014, 03:54:46 PM
I had never heard of the Amazon Smile. Well this works out well...Im just getting ready to start my Christmas shopping. :)
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on November 03, 2014, 04:54:01 PM
Remember, new Amazon Smile users - you have to install the Amazon Smile button that comes in your welcome e-mail on your toolbar, or remember to log into smile.amazon.com, not just the plain amazon.com, in order for TIGHAR to get the credit.

LTM, who bats at bots with a bowling ball,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: pilotart on November 04, 2014, 04:26:09 PM
  ^^^ Excellent Point Monty.  ^^^

In addition; if you get to Amazon from a Link, rather than from your own 'Favorite' Folder, Amazon may pop-up a link for you to enter Amazon Smile or just stay on Amazon.

The above reaction may depend on your 'cookie' or block settings... ;)
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on November 04, 2014, 06:09:04 PM
Another thought - if you have any kids of your own in college, or have friends/relatives/neighbors with kids in college, tell them about this.

Every college student I know has Amazon Prime, and most of them get their textbooks from there. The Spring semester book ordering frenzy has already started. It would be cool if TIGHAR could cash in.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Gloria Walker Burger on November 04, 2014, 06:36:09 PM
I signed up for TIGHAR to be my charity on Amazon Smile. I do get Christmas presents on Amazon, so I hope I will help TIGHAR this season. My daughters have done it, too! It was easy as pie.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Dave Potratz on November 05, 2014, 01:50:26 PM
Just switched my A. Smile account to TIGHAR . . . a few cents here, a few cents there . . . yup, it ALL adds up!  :)
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: pilotart on November 06, 2014, 12:06:46 PM
Just to be sure (as Monty pointed out) here's a link:

http://smile.amazon.com/ (http://smile.amazon.com/)

This is the site you need to be using for your Amazon Purchases
to support TIGHAR (along with having selected TIGHAR as your charity).

Of course Amazon has many pages under that URL, just make sure it
begins with "smile.amazon.com/"  That "smile." part is critical :).

"Supporting: The International Group For Historic Aircraft Recovery"
should be seen across the top left of the page.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Hal Banks on November 06, 2014, 12:28:23 PM
Art, your link worked perfectly, made the switch very easy!!  Thanks!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Bill Mangus on November 06, 2014, 01:30:51 PM
I've also switched; very easy and painless.  One-half of one percent doesn't sound like much, but it will add up!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on December 03, 2014, 06:34:54 AM
Just a reminder with Christmas shopping in full swing. Use Amazon Smile - http://smile.amazon.com/ (http://smile.amazon.com/) - and select TIGHAR as your charity of choice. The next big expedition payment is due soon.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Mark Appel on December 03, 2014, 10:07:46 AM
Very important! Distribute the link to friends and family. Include a brief explanation that in turn can be forwarded. E.G.  "Help fund the definitive expedition to find Earhart's plane!" Or the like. Distribute to friends and family and when possible use your Facebook as well. And encourage them to spread it!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on December 29, 2014, 05:06:47 PM
To quote the one thing that almost always guaranteed me getting left by the side of the road during family vacations, "Are we there yet?"

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: pilotart on December 29, 2014, 10:47:26 PM
Flawless, TIGHAR Banner was seen top left panel on every Amazon order with no extra attention needed. 
Of course the key is that the URL begins w//Smile.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Jeff Palshook on December 30, 2014, 10:39:52 AM
Ric,

What is the current status of Niku VIII funding? 

Your previous froum posts (in October) said the first payment of $41,300 for the Nai'a charter was due at the end of October 2014, and this money was raised and the payment was made.  The next payment for the Nai'a was $111,350, due on 10 Dec. 2014.

Your recent (around 15 Dec. 2014) e-mail bulletin said the next payment for the charter was due, $25,000 from two sponsor team members was in hand, and a total of $133,7000 needed to be raised to complete the Niku VIII budget.  Once the $133,700 was raised, the $100,000 pledge from a foundation plus a total of $75,000 in additional pleages from the two sponsor team members would then become available, and the budget would be completed.

Adding this all up:

 41,300  Paid in Oct. toward Nai'a charter
 25,000  $ in hand from 2 sponsor team members
100,000  Pledged by major foundation
 75,000  Pledged by the 2 sponsor team members
133,700  Still needed to be raised

Total of above:  $375,000

I've seen this number mentioned somewhere as the total Niku VIII budget, and it makes sense with the budget for the Nai'a charter being $264,000 plus an estimated additional $12,000 in fuel costs, the remainder of the $375,000 presumably being for ROV rental and operation, scuba diving operations, land operations, and incidentals.

What is not clear to me is what has happened with the $111,350 payment for the Nai'a charter due on 10 Dec. 2014.  I see in the above numbers only the $25,00 total from the two sponsor team members available cash in hand to put toward that $111,350 payment, whose due date has now passed.  Was that full payment made?  If not, how much were you able to pay, and have the Nai'a folks granted you a time extension to pay the remaining amount?

Also, your mid-December e-mail bulletin said you would be issuing a press release at the end of that week discussing the status of the 2-2-V-1 investigation, including an account of your visit to MIT and publishing Prof. Eagar's letter to you following that MIT visit.  I didn't see any press release after that.  Did it happen?

Finally, you always seem to post the contents of any such e-mailed TIGHAR bulletin on the website a few days after you do the e-mail notification.  I haven't seen any sign of such a posting on the TIGHAR website.  What happened here?


Jeff P.
   
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on December 31, 2014, 11:11:15 AM
Expedition budgets are always a moving target. We've been able to whittle the total budget down to $350,000.  Here's an update I just sent to the team.

"As we move into the new year we’re in good shape to ride the wave of recent publicity and complete our expedition budget - so get out your surf board and help us find the sponsors. 

TIGHAR received a $40,000 year-end foundation grant to cover TIGHAR operating expenses so that let’s us devote attention to completing the expedition fundraising.  Nai’a was okay with us missing the December 10 payment of $111,350 but they asked for some kind of payment by Christmas.  One of our Sponsor Team Members stepped forward and voluntarily paid the $35,000 balance of his pledged donation, which we passed along to Nai’a - so they’re happy for the time being.

Of the $350,000 expedition budget we’ve now raised $216,300 in cash and firm pledges  - $76,300 raised and paid;  $142,484 in firm pledges.  We need to raise the remaining $131,216 as soon as possible.  We’re 63% of the way there.  This is do-able.  Still no word on the Explorers Club/ Mamont Foundation grant that Andrew McKenna applied for.  They were originally going to make a decision by the end of November.  Andrew has also applied for support from GoPro cameras. Once the expedition is a “done deal” it should be much easier to secure additional sponsorships and in-kind contributions of equipment (cameras, drones, etc.).

We need to approach potential sponsors who have a logical connection to our work - either to Earhart or to some aspect of our investigation.   I’ll be talking to Lockheed Martin, Alcoa, and Embry Riddle Aeronautical University.  If you have an “in” with a company or individual who might be good prospect let me know.  If you know "people of means" whom you could invite to a fundraiser dinner let’s talk about it."

Yesterday we received a $15,000 grant from The Asia Group, a Washington-based consulting firm. That brings our still-to-raise balance down to $116,216. We're two-thirds of the way there.

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Jeff Palshook on December 31, 2014, 11:31:04 AM
Thank you for the funding update, Ric.


Jeff P.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on January 01, 2015, 01:49:25 PM
Definitely doable.

And kudos to Andrew for going after foundation funding, I know how unrewarding that quest can seem much of the time.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on January 01, 2015, 08:35:44 PM
Monty

Thanks, I'm just going after what funding seems available to me.  We all know people of means or organizations who might be able to grant funds, so I encourage everyone to think about who they know - from high school on - who might be able to help us raise some funds for the expedition. 

You might be surprised by the interest in this project, and who might be willing to support it.

Best

Andrew
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ted G Campbell on February 01, 2015, 08:20:43 PM

Where do we stand Ric?
Ted Campbell
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on February 02, 2015, 08:06:57 AM
Where do we stand Ric?

So far we have raised  67% of the $350,000 Niku VIII budget.  We need to raise the remaining $116,000 as soon as possible.  We're pursuing a number of leads that could result in major sponsorship but nothing definite yet.
This expedition is a "must do" for TIGHAR.  We need everyone to contribute what they can. It will be great if we can land one big sponsor who will cover the entire shortfall, but if we have to piece it together from smaller contributions we will.
Ted, you have been very generous.  Monty Fowler has also been steadfast inches support.  Andrew McKenna has been generous and tireless in his efforts to find sponsors. Please follow their example and donate today at http://tighar.org/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=43
or send a check payable to TIGHAR to
TIGHAR
2366 Hickory Hill Road
Oxford, PA 19363

Some readers of the forum are business owners. For a gift of at least $1,000 we’ll put your company logo on the TIGHAR homepage as a hot link to your website.  On an average day the TIGHAR website gets over 2,000 visitors.  When we’re making news, as we will in June, we get upwards of 56,000 visitors per day. 
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on February 02, 2015, 12:03:47 PM
Tax time is here! If you're getting a refund, consider kicking in a little. I have my check ready as soon as my refund hits my bank. Unfortunately, us lowly airline serfs dont bring in the kind of money to just knock it all out in one whack but Ill continue to contribute when I can.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Brian Ainslie on February 03, 2015, 11:23:39 AM
Ric - Around the Holidays there was some discussion of Amazon Smile as a potential avenue for income. I'm not sure how that works from your end (logistically how & when they pay out, etc.) but any updates from that stream?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on February 03, 2015, 12:12:52 PM
Ric - Around the Holidays there was some discussion of Amazon Smile as a potential avenue for income. I'm not sure how that works from your end (logistically how & when they pay out, etc.) but any updates from that stream?

We're set up with Amazon Smile and a number of people have said they use it, but Amazon hasn't sent us any money yet.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on February 03, 2015, 02:50:42 PM
That's odd. If TIGHAR did it part by sending Amazon the info needed for electronic fund transfers, TIGHAR should be getting checks quarterly: https://org.amazon.com/ref=smi_se_spd_org_org (https://org.amazon.com/ref=smi_se_spd_org_org) under the Receive Donations tab. And surely we've gotten at least $5 by now ...

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP




Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Brian Ainslie on February 04, 2015, 11:27:17 AM
Ric - Around the Holidays there was some discussion of Amazon Smile as a potential avenue for income. I'm not sure how that works from your end (logistically how & when they pay out, etc.) but any updates from that stream?

We're set up with Amazon Smile and a number of people have said they use it, but Amazon hasn't sent us any money yet.

Should have done  my research first:

"100% of the donation amount generated from your eligible purchase on AmazonSmile will be donated. The donation amounts generated by your purchases are combined with the donation amounts from all other customers that selected the same organization, and each quarter the AmazonSmile Foundation makes donations to registered charitable organizations by electronic funds transfer. Donations are generally transferred approximately 45 days after the end of each calendar quarter. "

So I guess sometime by late Feb. there ought to be the first trickle of funds...
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on February 04, 2015, 11:52:42 AM
So I guess sometime by late Feb. there ought to be the first trickle of funds...

We'll watch for the trickle.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on February 04, 2015, 02:08:35 PM
I was hoping we'd have gotten the check from the fourth quarter of 2014. I know I ordered a few things from Amazon Smile during that time.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Todd Attebery on February 13, 2015, 11:33:15 AM
Along the lines of my TECTIC post,  has TIGHAR considered doing a crowd sourcing funding program dedicated to an individual person (someone less skeptical, but can't personally pony up $50K) ?  I.e. "Fund an 'at-large member' " or "Fund-an-Educator" to join the expedition... some price to nominate someone $50 (or $19.37) , and some small price $5 ($1.93) to vote.    Two ideas here... 1. If individuals have some personal skin in the game, it might help the funding effort "go viral".  2.  The "suggested price point" of helping in the search $19.37, may be a bit too high for the average "lurker" on facebook, but they might easily drop a few bucks for a friend's attempt to join the expedition. 

Again, my $0.02.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Steve Lyle Gunderson on March 06, 2015, 06:21:46 AM
Here is a lead to a potential supporter  (http://www.king5.com/story/tech/science/2015/03/05/new-submersible/24474267/)and/or partner.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Rob Seasock on March 06, 2015, 07:38:50 AM
Funny, OceanGate's Antipodes submersible spent the night staged on a flatbed truck out in the parking lot of the marina where I live last fall. The name Stockton Rush struck me as unusual for some reason, he has an old Philadelphia family and interesting background:
http://www.oceangate.com/our-company/oceangate-stockton-rush.html (http://www.oceangate.com/our-company/oceangate-stockton-rush.html)

His fathers Princeton memorial citing the Declaration of Independence signee connection and living in New Zealand reference,  the Antipodes was ounce a tourist sub in New Zealand:
http://paw.princeton.edu/memorials/40/15/index.xml (http://paw.princeton.edu/memorials/40/15/index.xml)

Antipodes submersible:
http://www.oceangate.com/equipment/antipodes-submersible.html (http://www.oceangate.com/equipment/antipodes-submersible.html)
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 06, 2015, 09:00:14 AM
All of these manned submersibles are too large to be deployed from our expedition vessel.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ted G Campbell on March 06, 2015, 09:54:52 PM
Ric,
Where do we stand money wise?
Ted Campbell
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 07, 2015, 07:32:35 AM
Where do we stand money wise?

The expedition budget is about $350,000 (it's a moving target because we haven't selected an ROV contractor so we don't know how much that will cost).  So far we've raised $206,300 in donations and firm pledges so we need to raise another $143,700 for the expedition, but we also have to cover TIGHAR's operating expenses through July.   The bottom line is that we need to raise another $200,000.

We still have one $50,000 Sponsor Team Member berth available, so if anyone knows of a wealthy individual who wants to go on an "Indiana Jones-style adventure vacation" (as Tom Crouch styles our expeditions) have him or her get in touch with me.

We have a fundraising luncheon in Washington DC scheduled for March 19.  Former Ass't Secretary of State Kurt Campbell is hosting the event and has invited a number of "heavy hitters."   The TIGHAR board of directors is also soliciting significant donations from their contacts.

Donations via the TIGHAR Facebook page are coming in.  Not huge amounts but a steady stream of $50 and $100 contributions.  It adds up.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on March 07, 2015, 10:29:10 AM
Hmmm ... payday is the 15th. Guess who's going to be getting a check on the 16th?

LTM, who can see the end of the tunnel,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on March 17, 2015, 09:36:03 AM
Donations via the TIGHAR Facebook page are coming in.  Not huge amounts but a steady stream of $50 and $100 contributions.  It adds up.

I'm hoping that the Your Name in Lights funding idea is driving at least some of this - it's a novel take on one way to get lasting fame.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR no. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ted G Campbell on March 19, 2015, 11:22:34 PM
Ric,
How short are we?
Ted Campbell
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ted G Campbell on March 20, 2015, 12:19:03 AM
Ric,
Give us number!
Ted Campbell
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on March 20, 2015, 07:09:01 AM
This is what Ric posted earlier in this thread, Ted:

"We have a fundraising luncheon in Washington DC scheduled for March 19.  Former Ass't Secretary of State Kurt Campbell is hosting the event and has invited a number of 'heavy hitters.'   The TIGHAR board of directors is also soliciting significant donations from their contacts."

Today is March 20.

My guess is that Ric is busy courting the kind of people who can complete the funding, not reading the Forum, this morning.

"Are we there yet, Daddy?" really doesn't make the car go faster.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on March 20, 2015, 09:13:57 AM
This is what Ric posted earlier in this thread, Ted:

"We have a fundraising luncheon in Washington DC scheduled for March 19.  Former Ass't Secretary of State Kurt Campbell is hosting the event and has invited a number of 'heavy hitters.'   The TIGHAR board of directors is also soliciting significant donations from their contacts."

Today is March 20.

My guess is that Ric is busy courting the kind of people who can complete the funding, not reading the Forum, this morning.

"Are we there yet, Daddy?" really doesn't make the car go faster.

Marty,

Ted's been a keen and apparently substantial supporter of Tighar by all I can tell in the forum and by his generous offer to send me to the early hearings in Wyoming to support Ric and Tighar.  Mirth is one thing, but it seems Tighar could use the goodwill of guys like Ted.  Isn't your remark a tad sharp, considering that?

I consider it to be, and condescending - that while Ric's busy courting potential 'heavy hitters' the goodwill of rank and file seemingly only deserves the backhand of a proxy.

No wonder Niku VIII is hurting.  Sad.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on March 20, 2015, 09:49:00 AM
Ted's been a keen and apparently substantial supporter of Tighar by all I can tell in the forum and by his generous offer to send me to the early hearings in Wyoming to support Ric and Tighar.  Mirth is one thing, but it seems Tighar could use the goodwill of guys like Ted.  Isn't your remark a tad sharp, considering that?

As I said to you in a private message already this morning, I have noted your criticism of my post.

Even though I am the server administrator and the person who set up and maintain this Forum, I'm a little uncertain as to exactly what time Ted made his posts.  My personal timezone settings may affect this view, too.

It seems to me that Ted asked his two questions within an hour of each other sometime in the wee small hours of this morning:

« Reply #152 on: Today at 12:22:34 AM »

« Reply #153 on: Today at 01:19:03 AM »

I replied seven hours later:

« Reply #154 on: Today at 08:09:01 AM »

My guess is that Ric is busy with more important matters than reading the Forum this morning.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 20, 2015, 09:50:03 AM
No wonder Niku VIII is hurting.  Sad.

I do not feel sad.
Niku VIII is not hurting.
Marty is right. I have to devote attention to securing large gifts.
Ted is not wrong for being curious about how the fund raising is going.
Forum contributors are important.

We had about a dozen people at yesterday's luncheon in Washington.  It was a high-powered dozen.  The luncheon appears to have been successful in raising significant dollars for the expedition.  I say "appears to" because these things are not like church where you pass the plate after the sermon. Specific commitments are made in private follow-up conversations.
The host, Dr. Kurt Campbell, gave me a glowing introduction and my one-hour PowerPoint presentation was well-received. After about 20 minutes of Q&A the mood in the room was positive and the consensus was that the case for Nikumaroro is strong and the expedition needs to happen. Kurt announced that his firm would be making a significant contribution and a number of people said they would be donating.  No firm numbers were discussed but Kurt and I will be following up over the next week or so. He also plans to put me in front of other potential contributors who were not able to attend and he intends to hold another similar luncheon in a few weeks. There's more work to do to harvest the fields we planted yesterday, but I feel that the prospects for completing the funding for the expedition are now excellent and we'll be moving forward aggressively with preparations and logistics.

To answer Ted's question, we need to raise another $146,216 to trigger the $100,000 foundation grant and complete the basic $350,000 expedition budget.  That's the most urgent need but it's not the whole story.  With more funding we can do more and we'll of course need to keep TIGHAR's operating costs covered before, during, and after the expedition. 
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on March 20, 2015, 10:10:59 AM
Ted's been a keen and apparently substantial supporter of Tighar by all I can tell in the forum and by his generous offer to send me to the early hearings in Wyoming to support Ric and Tighar.  Mirth is one thing, but it seems Tighar could use the goodwill of guys like Ted.  Isn't your remark a tad sharp, considering that?

As I said to you in a private message already this morning, I have noted your criticism of my post.

Even though I am the server administrator and the person who set up and maintain this Forum, I'm a little uncertain as to exactly what time Ted made his posts.  My personal timezone settings may affect this view, too.

It seems to me that Ted asked his two questions within an hour of each other sometime in the wee small hours of this morning:

« Reply #152 on: Today at 12:22:34 AM »

« Reply #153 on: Today at 01:19:03 AM »

I replied seven hours later:

« Reply #154 on: Today at 08:09:01 AM »

My guess is that Ric is busy with more important matters than reading the Forum this morning.

I didn't get see (notice did not show up before, but it's there) the PM from you, sorry.

Ted's timing and seeming insistance have nothing to do with an onlooker's take away from an untoward reply.

I see Ric has replied and I am glad.  That said, it was also not my point to question how busy he was, merely how the response was effected.  By whom is not so important as how, in my view.

Good manners are not costly but can bring much goodwill.

Thanks, Ric, for a very nice reply.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Bob Smith on March 20, 2015, 12:33:20 PM
Wow! There was a massive eruption on the sun the other day and it only took this long to reach earth.. northern lights, huge storm in the Pacific, a solar eclipse and a toxic burst of energy all in one week!!
All kidding aside and for what its worth from this teeny tiny contributer, I am proud to be a part, no matter how small, of this assembledge of minds and expertise, the likes of which we will probably not find anywhere else. Everybody is OK. Everybody is acting in a predictable manner, and we all will get "there" at the right time.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on March 20, 2015, 01:06:44 PM
So, what did the solar flare have to do with TIGHAR?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 20, 2015, 01:30:44 PM
So, what did the solar flare have to do with TIGHAR?

You're right.  We didn't do the solar flare and we had nothing to do with the storm.  We did the northern lights and the eclipse just for fun.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Bob Smith on March 20, 2015, 02:43:28 PM
Who said anything about a solar flare?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on March 20, 2015, 02:51:25 PM
*mumbles incoherently after a long day of crunching numbers not of his own making* Flares???

Regardless, a check is inbound.

LTM, who is sooooooooo glad it is TGIF,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR no. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on March 20, 2015, 11:49:12 PM
Who said anything about a solar flare?

Yes, predictable.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on March 23, 2015, 02:02:33 PM
Did we ever get anything from the Amazon Smile program? I know I've been ordering some stuff through there that credits TIGHAR.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 23, 2015, 02:08:41 PM
Did we ever get anything from the Amazon Smile program?

We've gotten one check for something like $7 or $8.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Michael Shainblum on March 26, 2015, 04:17:22 AM
What is Amazon Smile program?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on March 26, 2015, 05:04:24 AM
What is Amazon Smile program?

About AmazonSmile: (http://tighar.org/smf/AmazonSmile is a simple and automatic way for you to support your favorite charitable organization every time you shop, at no cost to you. When you shop at smile.amazon.com, you’ll find the exact same low prices, vast selection and convenient shopping experience as Amazon.com, with the added bonus that Amazon will donate a portion of the purchase price to your favorite charitable organization. You can choose from nearly one million organizations to support.)

"AmazonSmile is a simple and automatic way for you to support your favorite charitable organization every time you shop, at no cost to you. When you shop at smile.amazon.com (http://smile.amazon.com/), you’ll find the exact same low prices, vast selection and convenient shopping experience as Amazon.com, with the added bonus that Amazon will donate a portion of the purchase price to your favorite charitable organization. You can choose from nearly one million organizations to support."

TIGHAR is one of them.

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Michael Shainblum on March 26, 2015, 07:42:50 AM
Thank you very much for clarifications Martin X. Moleski, SJ. :)
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ted G Campbell on April 04, 2015, 09:06:04 PM
Ric et all,
I have just made a contribution to this year's program.  Where do we now stand?

Ted Campbell
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on April 05, 2015, 10:31:00 AM
I have just made a contribution to this year's program.  Where do we now stand?


Thank you Ted.  If we reduce the number of days on-site from 14 down to 7 (one week instead of two) it lowers the total budget from $350,000 down to $268,000.  Counting your recent contribution, the total raised and pledged is $269,784.  In other words, the expedition is definitely on!  The question now is whether we can raise another $80,216 to bring our time-on-site up to the originally scheduled two weeks.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on April 05, 2015, 07:19:37 PM
Have all of the $50,000 slots been taken? If not, time for everyone to rattle all available cages, contacts, etc.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Todd Attebery on April 06, 2015, 09:31:37 AM
I think I may have suggested something along these lines a few months back... if the $50,000 slots haven't been taken, you might consider a specific fundraiser for a "member at large" of less financial means.  I.e. forum and facebook followers nominate people for $50 (and get "your name in lights") and anyone can vote for nominees at $5/vote.   
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on April 06, 2015, 09:35:53 AM
Have all of the $50,000 slots been taken?

We have one berth remaining and we need to fill it with a physician.  We do not yet have a Team Physician and it's a really good idea to have a doctor on board.  We have a couple of prospects who are doctors AND would make a significant contribution.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on April 20, 2015, 07:40:33 AM
I know it's a hassle, but I think a daily donations tally might help keep enthusiasm running high.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR no. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on April 20, 2015, 08:48:08 AM
I know it's a hassle, but I think a daily donations tally might help keep enthusiasm running high.

Or it might draw unsolicited advice and disparaging remarks.

Let's look at it this way: I'll bet that if you want to be the "closer" who puts TIGHAR over the top at the end, Ric and Pat will send you a hand-crafted update every day.

If there's no money to match your enthusiasm, I'll bet they'd rather put their energy into other aspects of fundraising.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on April 20, 2015, 09:39:17 PM
Gee Marty, I feel so inspired by how you replied to Monty, who is not only a nice guy but a generous donor, that I will pledge the last two cents to go over the top.  Consider this post my two cents worth paid in advance.  When do the dailies start?  ;D
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Jerry Germann on April 23, 2015, 02:11:05 PM
TIGHAR

April 15 at 3:16pm ·
.

TALLY FOR APRIL 14
 Four donations totaling $325. Good news, bad news. The bad news is airfares for the team are going to be almost twice as expensive as originally anticipated. The good news is the cost of equipping the expedition with a good ROV may be much less than we thought.

Concerning the ROV, .....Would the model used, be equipped with a laser device to determine the scale of any interesting objects? Hopefully , the reduced cost of the ROV, will offset the plane fare increase.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on April 23, 2015, 02:17:38 PM
TIGHAR

Concerning the ROV, .....Would the model used, be equipped with a laser device to determine the scale of any interesting objects? Hopefully , the reduced cost of the ROV, will offset the plane fare increase.


Jerry - I'm not part of the ROV selection team, but I think the answer is yes as that is certainly a lesson learned the hard way in 2010.  I'll know more after the team meeting at the end of the month, and I'm sure that at some point Ric will discuss the technology chosen and its capabilities.

Andrew
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Bob Smith on April 23, 2015, 03:49:56 PM
Do they have enough yet to send Andrew with a giant eyeball from Google and a small ATV with puncture proof tires??
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on April 23, 2015, 04:59:52 PM
Yup, here I am mapping the Gallagher Highway! (not really)

Would be cool though, huh?

Andrew
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Bob Smith on April 23, 2015, 05:43:25 PM
It would be fantastic! Maybe worth leaving one ROV behind. Probably a lot of clearing though, eh?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on April 27, 2015, 07:17:46 AM
It would be fantastic! Maybe worth leaving one ROV behind. Probably a lot of clearing though, eh?

Ummm, Bob, the ROVs are for the underwater phase of the search. There's still time to donate to that critical part of Niku VIII, but I rather doubt the ROV operators will want to leave behind one of their very expensive gidgets.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on April 27, 2015, 09:03:07 AM
My first reaction was like yours, Monty.  However, I suspect Bob Smith meant leaving an ROV behind at the outset, as in not taking it along in the first place - but he of course may clarify otherwise.

It seems unlikely to me that TIGHAR would consider compromising this already lean effort that is planned to examine the seafloor by doing such a thing - is not the study of the 'anomaly' a mission priority?

The Gallagher Highway, etc. seems a relative folly to me - and in fact, the land search generally just seems to pale.  This because my belief is that if Earhart did somehow make it to Niku (unproven in my view, and I have to admit some other possibilities do exist, IMHO), the only way to know that in real terms is to finally exhaust the sub-sea search. 

In fact, after nearly eight decades, I have very serious doubts about the survial of any potential land-based artifacts that might now turn up to qualify a location such as 'camp zero'.  There have been too many decades of human habitation other than and since a possible Earhart presence, and storms and overwash in the years since, as I understand those elements to have come and gone.  But maybe the magic bottle with a note lies in the brush somewhere yet.  Forgive me, I simply doubt it severely now, as opposed to how I once felt about all this... and confess, when I reimmerse in all this lately, my head often feels like that of the critter in your avatar... LOL!!!

Just two cents worth, sincerely.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Bob Smith on April 27, 2015, 12:43:11 PM
Yes, Jeff I meant as in not taking an ROV to the island, NOT in leaving one behind there! But I was under the impression there was  more than one ROV, probably wrong, again. I believe the ROV is essential to the hunt and probably sufficient to provide visual contact with the anomoly, but then what? Wouldn't there be a need for more rigorous attention like up close and personal inspection
with at least a stiff wire brush?? And due to the law of gravity wouldn't there tend to be more at 10000 ft than at 700 or 200 ft? A deep sea  vehicle would undoubtably be more complicated and expensive to operate, but perhaps directly proportional to the results!
The big "eyeball" idea is of course more of a gimmick and attention getter (more interest--more funds) but I think it deserves more serious consideration for now OR later. If I had to chose between a small ROV, larger deeper-capable vehicle, and an eyeball, I think I would choose the second type more expensive machinery. Unreasonable, maybe, but one of these days we need to get serious if we really believe there is something to look for.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on April 27, 2015, 12:47:22 PM
one of these days we need to get serious if we really believe there is something to look for.

Yes, one of these days we need to get serious.  ( I don't know whether to laugh or cry.)
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on April 27, 2015, 12:58:46 PM
Dang, Bob, you don't seriously believe Ric's not into this thing?  Who could miss that he's lived and breathed it for nearly 30 years!?!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on April 27, 2015, 02:24:45 PM
Bob, I ... oh, never mind *points to new avatar*

And that's all I've got to say about that.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on April 27, 2015, 02:34:31 PM
*points to new avatar*

LOL! Monty, where do you FIND this stuff?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Bob Smith on April 27, 2015, 02:44:42 PM
No! No! No! Please don't cry Ric. You canlaugh if you want. I'm not one to judge anybody! Your direction and tenacity seem impeccable, unwavering, serious. People look to TIGHAR as an example of integrity and compare to other theories and methods. If the ocean was just a little shallower and our arms a little longer! Sometimes practicality and reason (common sense) can solve the puzzle when theories are exhausted.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on April 27, 2015, 02:51:18 PM
Thanks Bob.  I appreciate the compliment.

Sometimes practicality and reason (common sense) can solve the puzzle when theories are exhausted.

I'm having a little trouble processing that.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on April 27, 2015, 02:56:12 PM
*points to new avatar*

LOL! Monty, where do you FIND this stuff?

Ahem ... I work at a research institution. We do research on ... alllllllllllll kinds of stuff.

LTM, who tries to keep a spare eyeball handy at all times,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on April 27, 2015, 03:20:31 PM
Bob,

Don't go throwing common sense into this...  :D

Now the psychics I can get into...  ::)
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on April 28, 2015, 12:56:59 PM
Bob, I ... oh, never mind *points to new avatar*

And that's all I've got to say about that.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP

I particularly like the loose eyeball special effects in the new avatar...
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on April 28, 2015, 04:48:01 PM
I'm just going to sit over here.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on May 01, 2015, 01:26:49 PM
Glad things are getting closer to the finish line, funding-wise. Niku VIII may well be our best shot at finding Amelia and Fred.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on May 12, 2015, 04:04:45 PM
I'm hoping we're up to enough donations and pledges to go for the full length of time we'd hoped for.

LTM, who tries not to count his chickens before they, you know,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on May 12, 2015, 04:52:00 PM
Niku VIII may well be our best shot at finding Amelia and Fred.

We've flogged this dead horse until all that's left is a partial skeleton. We have a massive preponderance of evidence amassed over 27 years of research. Give me two hours and a Powerpoint projector and I will convince any sentient being that we know what happened to Amelia and Fred. This expedition is an attempt to find additional supportive evidence that may make it easier for skeptics to understand what we've done. Maybe we've found all there is to find.  Maybe not.  The only way to know is to go and see.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on May 12, 2015, 04:54:56 PM
I'm hoping we're up to enough donations and pledges to go for the full length of time we'd hoped for.

Yes.  We'll have the full two weeks on site.  We're still short on funding but we'll be able to cover the shortfall with a loan.  It was Amelia who said, "The future is mortgaged, but what are futures for?"  We're still fundraising and will continue to do so.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Dale O. Beethe on May 14, 2015, 07:06:19 AM
I'd watch that two hour Power Point, Ric!  Have you ever thought about putting one together that could be watched online?  (You could do it in all that "spare time" I'm sure you have, right between planning an expedition and doing twenty seven fundraising programs.)  If, and I realize that's a big "if", you do ever have the time to put something like that together, it might be a good way to get your story out to people who are actually interested in the facts of the case.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on May 14, 2015, 09:23:29 AM
I'm glad we are getting the full amount of time, since Niku has a nasty habit of biting you in the hind end in unexpected manners. More time gives TIGHAR more time to recover from these inevitable mishaps.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ted G Campbell on May 14, 2015, 10:07:01 PM
How short are we Ric?  I may be able to help a little more.
Ted
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on May 16, 2015, 04:23:52 PM
How short are we Ric?  I may be able to help a little more.

This budget continues to be a moving target. Just when I thought we had everything covered, the Republic of Kiribati has thrown us a $5,000 curve ball.  We have always been required to bring along a Kiribati "observer" - a Customs and Immigration officer who clears us into Kiribati when we arrive at Nikumaroro and hand-endorses our passports "Port of Nikumaroro."  Now, we still have to bring along an "observer" but  - new rule - the clearance into Kiribati will have to be done before we depart Fiji by five officials who will travel to Fiji from Tarawa.  There are only two round trip flights per week from Tarawa to Fiji so we have to pay not only for the bureaucrats' airfare but also for three nights in a hotel.  All in all it will be another $5,000.  Our option is to clear into and out of Kiribati by traveling to Niku via Kanton Island, their official port of entry for the Phoenix Group -  but that would cost us four days at $11,000/day. We're stuck. We'll just have to somehow raise the money.  Anything you can do will be much appreciated.

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on May 16, 2015, 05:30:53 PM
Sounds like a junket to to have 5 officials come to Fiji.  Each one is going to check in 3 of us?  Absurd.

Aren't there already Kiribati reps in Fiji?  I thought they were in the process of moving people there due to sea level rise.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/kiribati/9127576/Entire-nation-of-Kiribati-to-be-relocated-over-rising-sea-level-threat.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/kiribati/9127576/Entire-nation-of-Kiribati-to-be-relocated-over-rising-sea-level-threat.html)

Might there be a way to mitigate this need through contacts at the State Dept?

Sigh

amck
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ted G Campbell on May 16, 2015, 08:17:05 PM
Ric,

Let’s see if we can negotiate our way out of this latest SNAFU.

In return for the government dropping its last minuet elevated on-site personal demands we would be agreeable to the historic government oversight of this project and in return we would be agreeable to offer the government, that if the Niku VIII project is successful i.e. we find the Electra, the uncontested “salvage rights” to the Electra basis the lat/long, depth, etc. data supplied by TIGHAR.

In return TIGHAR gets sole possession of all photographic/video documents of the search and discovery of the where abouts of AE without any further obligation to the government.  AND it would be expected if any physical evidence of the Electra is recovered by the government and/or its contractors TIGHAR shall receive a token artifact there from.  AND  TIGHAR retains the sole rights of all, future books, movies, television documentaries, etc. concerning the search and discovery for the lost flight of Amelia Earhart.

The point is; TIGHAR will have proven her point, TIGHAR will be relieved of the cost of recovery, TIGHAR would have a symbolic piece of the Electra to add to the artifact library already secured and TIGHAR would not incur the cost and expense of preserving and exhibiting the Electra proper.

Ted Campbell
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on May 17, 2015, 11:52:33 AM
Sounds like a junket to to have 5 officials come to Fiji.  Each one is going to check in 3 of us?  Absurd.

The less I say about this publicly the better.

The State Dept. doesn't have any clout with Kiribati because the U.S. doesn't do anything for Kiribati.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on May 17, 2015, 11:55:05 AM
Let’s see if we can negotiate our way out of this latest SNAFU.

TIGHAR has an Antiquities Management Agreement with Kiribati that already addresses the issues you raise.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on May 17, 2015, 07:45:20 PM
Another one of Niku's curve ball specials, it seems. I'm not in the least surprised, but I remain optimistic that everything will come together. Somehow.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ted G Campbell on May 17, 2015, 09:19:33 PM
Ric,

Will you explain the details of the agreement?
Ted
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Bruce Thomas on May 18, 2015, 06:13:37 AM
Ric,

Will you explain the details of the agreement?
Ted

Knowing that Ric is deep into preparations for the team to depart on Niku VIII, I went digging back into the archives of the Forum looking to see what he's said about the agreement before.

Last September, in answer to a similar request for information about TIGHAR's agreement with Kiribati, he made this post (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1554.msg33945.html#msg33945) about the operative parts of the agreement.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: John Balderston on May 19, 2015, 07:34:47 AM
Ric and team, just slid in with a small donation and an early Researcher renewal - not much but trusting that in a small way it will help.  Fair winds and following seas, and good hunting! v/r JB
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on May 19, 2015, 02:12:22 PM
Well this was not something I wanted to come back to see. :(  I have one more paycheck before the expedition departs. Ill do what I can. We have thousands of followers between this forum and facebook. If even half of us contributed just $25 each we could make this up with no problem.  I can cut something out to make up $25. Anyone with me?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on May 19, 2015, 02:44:10 PM
Well this was not something I wanted to come back to see. :(  I have one more paycheck before the expedition departs. Ill do what I can. We have thousands of followers between this forum and facebook. If even half of us contributed just $25 each we could make this up with no problem.  I can cut something out to make up $25. Anyone with me?

OK.

This is a link to the page for donations to the Earhart Project (http://tighar.org/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=36).

When you get there, this is what the "Donate" button looks like:

(http://tighar.org/logos/earhartdonate.jpg)
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on May 19, 2015, 02:51:44 PM
I am aware of where the donate button is and what it looks like. I have used it many times.  I was simply pointing out to anyone who may be reading that it seems like a lot of money in bulk but if everyone contributed the seemingly menial amount of $25, given the large following, the funds could be raised very quickly.  But I appreciate your response.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: JNev on May 19, 2015, 04:12:54 PM
...maybe the good father was simply joining in on your plea so as to make it easier for others you've pled to, so that they might follow your lead, Krystal...
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on May 19, 2015, 04:58:21 PM
I am aware of where the donate button is and what it looks like. I have used it many times.  I was simply pointing out to anyone who may be reading that it seems like a lot of money in bulk but if everyone contributed the seemingly menial amount of $25, given the large following, the funds could be raised very quickly.  But I appreciate your response.

I contributed $25, per your request.

I like to put links into my posts (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,127.0.html) to aid readers with site navigation.

I'm sorry for giving you the impression that you did not know where to go to donate. (http://tighar.org/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=36)

I intended the link and the image for others.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on May 19, 2015, 05:13:50 PM
Thank you for clarifying. Im not always the best judge of internet language...that and Im in a grumpy mood today for unrelated issues. I apologize.

When my next paycheck hits, Im sending $50,  $25 from me and $25 from my daughter. (TIGHAR actually sent her a membership card...talk about a happy little girl!)   Id send it now but the electric company wouldn't like me very much.   
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on May 19, 2015, 05:36:14 PM
An unexpected benefit of an effort like this is the way it puts human character on display.
- I have seen rich and powerful people make generous public pledges and then disappear.
- I have seen people who have an awful lot to say but nothing much to contribute.
- I have seen people who relegate much of their disposable income to supporting TIGHAR rather than to supporting their favorite pastime. To them I am especially grateful.
- I have seen people who struggle to make ends meet find some way to send a donation, however small.  Those people have a special place in my heart.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on May 19, 2015, 06:07:19 PM
Thank you for clarifying. Im not always the best judge of internet language...that and Im in a grumpy mood today for unrelated issues. I apologize.

No blood, no foul.  :)

I apologize for not writing a better post. 

All the best!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on May 19, 2015, 06:29:14 PM
Id fit in with the crabs nicely. Maybe I can be a translator on a future expedition.   ;D

-Krystal "Crab Whisperer" McGinty
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Brad Mackey on May 19, 2015, 07:13:49 PM
I'm in for 25 bucks.  Who's next?
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: George Lam on May 19, 2015, 08:55:04 PM
$25 it is... sending now.

Edit:
I decided to purchase an awesome TIGHAR baseball cap instead @ $35.  I'm hoping a portion of this will go towards the expedition...
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Alfred Hendrickson on May 20, 2015, 11:57:32 AM
...that and Im in a grumpy mood today for unrelated issues.

I'm responding to Krystal's grumpiness today by donating $25, per instructions.

 ;D

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on May 20, 2015, 02:10:15 PM
...that and Im in a grumpy mood today for unrelated issues.

I'm responding to Krystal's grumpiness today by donating $25, per instructions.

 ;D

This makes me less grumpy. Thank you!

Krystal "Her Royal Crabbiness" McGinty
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ted G Campbell on May 20, 2015, 10:06:35 PM
Ric,

I was just wondering about the planning for Niku VIII.  Some of the questions/contingency possibilities are:

Questions/Contingencies

•   What kind of and timing is there between Niku on-site communications with our TIGHAR web site here in the U.S.?

•   Is it possible to extend the on-site expedition if we hit the “mother lode”?  At what cost?

•   Are we prepared to publish real time results of the expedition and at the same time seriously/vigorously solicit additional funding as the project is on going?

•   Do we (TIGHAR)  have any additional resources – such as an underwater grabber – on standby if the funding can be secured immediately (see the above funding question) and dispatched to Niku?

•   Has there been any consideration been given to the idea of passenger transfer between the “cruise line” and the “research vessel” (with appropriate monetary compensation i.e. additional funding) coming from those who want to be in on the hands-on discovery?  i. e. additional funding coming from those who want to be in on the hands-on discovery may be willing to contribute more if the “mother lode” is found and they want to become more involved.

Bottom line to this inquiry is:

If the Niku VIII is successful in locating the L-10 there is going to be an expediential increase in “what can we do next” and people are going to want to be personally involved.  Are we prepared for such an eventually?

Ted Campbell
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on May 20, 2015, 10:47:08 PM
I was wondering some of the same things myself. Obviously being out in the middle of the ocean a thousand miles from nothing isn't the most ideal setting to be posting "live tweets" but I was curious how, if at all, they will keep those who will be back here gnawing their fingernails up to their elbows in anticipation updated during the expedition, particularly if the "ah-hah!" piece of the puzzle is found.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: john a delsing on May 20, 2015, 10:49:32 PM
I just bought a cap, hope it helps. I be wearing it for the next few weeks,,,,,  yes even to bed.  Gods speed Ric and company
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Krystal McGinty-Carter on May 20, 2015, 11:08:04 PM
I just bought a cap, hope it helps. I be wearing it for the next few weeks,,,,,  yes even to bed.  Gods speed Ric and company

Pictures or it didn't happen. ;)
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on May 21, 2015, 04:20:23 AM
Ric,

I'm not Ric, but while we wait for him to check in, I can answer some questions.

Quote
•   What kind of and timing is there between Niku on-site communications with our TIGHAR web site here in the U.S.?

In the past, Ric has filed daily updates by satellite phone to Pat, and Pat has turned those into narratives on the website.  So, for example, she has produced the "Land Team Briefing" (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Niku8/LandTeamBriefing.html) for starters.

Quote
•   Is it possible to extend the on-site expedition if we hit the “mother lode”?  At what cost?

Ric has answered this before.  He said that if it is possible to pick up material, they would ask permission before trying to collect it.  The ROV is not capable of securing large pieces of wreckage.

Quote
•   Are we prepared to publish real time results of the expedition and at the same time seriously/vigorously solicit additional funding as the project is on going?

Ric told us that this expedition is not being subsidized by a television network because TIGHAR wants to keep the rights to the film.  My guess is that this means that we will not see "real time results," but will only get verbal updates as we have in the past.

Quote
If the Niku VIII is successful in locating the L-10 there is going to be an expediential increase in “what can we do next” and people are going to want to be personally involved.  Are we prepared for such an eventually?

TIGHAR is prepared to undertake more expeditions to Niku in a general sense.

I can't imagine Ric trying to organize one while he is on one.

Having read all of the previous reports from all of TIGHAR's expeditions, I don't have the sense that there is a lot of free time or excess energy during the expedition itself.  They work hard and need to rest deeply. 
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ric Gillespie on May 22, 2015, 09:16:51 AM
  Marty has it right.


•   What kind of and timing is there between Niku on-site communications with our TIGHAR web site here in the U.S.?


As in the past, each day at I will make an early morning (mid-day here) verbal report to Pat via satellite phone about what we did the previous day.  She will write up a "Daily" report and post it on the TIGHAR website later that afternoon.

•   Is it possible to extend the on-site expedition if we hit the “mother lode”?  At what cost?

No.  Nai'a has to be back in Fiji on July 1st to prepare for its next charter.

•   Are we prepared to publish real time results of the expedition and at the same time seriously/vigorously solicit additional funding as the project is on going?

Pat is not bashful about asking for contributions.

•   Do we (TIGHAR)  have any additional resources – such as an underwater grabber – on standby if the funding can be secured immediately (see the above funding question) and dispatched to Niku?

The ROV has an grabber capable of retrieving small items. We wouldn't o more than that even if we had the capability.  Nothing is going to get dispatched to Niku.

•   Has there been any consideration been given to the idea of passenger transfer between the “cruise line” and the “research vessel” (with appropriate monetary compensation i.e. additional funding) coming from those who want to be in on the hands-on discovery?  i. e. additional funding coming from those who want to be in on the hands-on discovery may be willing to contribute more if the “mother lode” is found and they want to become more involved.

The tourist ship Fiji Princess will arrive a day and a half before we have too leave Niku.  They'll stay on for a couple more days after we leave.  They'll do some scouting under the supervision of the TIGHAR staff aboard Fiji Princess.   Stop thinking in terms of a "mother lode"  and being in on a "hands-on discovery."  If we're lucky we'll find more clues to add to our preponderance of evidence.  If we're REALLY lucky we'll find a big chunk of the airplane or some other artifact that can be linked directly to AE or FN.

If the Niku VIII is successful in locating the L-10 there is going to be an expediential increase in “what can we do next” and people are going to want to be personally involved.  Are we prepared for such an eventually?

If we are so fortunate as to encounter the a substantial body of wreckage underwater we will carefully document its position and condition so that we can return with the appropriate equipment and conservation materials to effect a responsible archaeological recovery.  Yes, there is likely to be a great deal of Hoorah which we will deal with as best we can.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Friend Weller on May 23, 2015, 09:12:33 AM
Since the mention of packing and shipping provisions and tools has come up in this and other threads, I'd bet if each member of the shore party were sporting a pair of these, it might give the local critters pause to give us a wide berth!   :D ;D :D

Best wishes to our intrepid shore, scuba, and sonar/ROV teams!  Only a few short weeks remain!  Every dollar helps, donate (http://tighar.org/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=36) now!
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Gloria Walker Burger on May 26, 2015, 09:19:02 PM
I'm in for your $25, Krystal, but Ric it will have to be after the 1st.
Hoping for fair winds for the trip...
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ted G Campbell on May 27, 2015, 08:38:10 PM
Ric,

Now that the time is getting short please tell us how you feel.  Is the funding adequate, does the team have their assignments, are the targets well defined, etc.?

Give us an idea of what your objectives are and the confidence you have in achieving them. 

As I see it, this is no different then a military operation; planing, planing, planing and execution!

My support is with you.

Ted Campbell
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on May 27, 2015, 10:11:48 PM
Give us an idea of what your objectives are and the confidence you have in achieving them. 

I'm pretty sure this is the plan for the trip (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Niku8/niku8plan.html).

Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Ben Howe on June 05, 2015, 09:36:44 AM
I'm late to the game but I have been lurking and following the discussion for years now and will also respond to Krystal's $25 challenge. I also registered as a member for good measure. I got a small bonus today with my paycheck and I can't think of a better use for it. I hope you buy some "celebration suds" on me.  Best of luck to Ric and the entire crew. Safe travels.
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on July 08, 2015, 10:09:00 AM
Just a reminder that this is one way to continue supporting TIGHAR: Smile at Amazon. Back to school shopping is just around the corner.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Joy Diane Forster on July 09, 2015, 06:34:11 AM
And for those of you who are Amazon prime members, next Wednesday (July 15) they are supposed to be having a big "Christmas in July" deal day for Prime members only.  So polish up those wish lists and get ready to do some serious shopping..........
Title: Re: Niku VIII Funding
Post by: Monty Fowler on March 01, 2016, 05:41:28 AM
Wanted to give this a bump to remind people about the Amazon Smile program funding option for TIGHAR.

Also, it would be a good idea to put a link to this program on the TIGHAR home page and Facebook page.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC