TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Bruce Thomas on August 06, 2014, 09:46:52 PM
-
A short article in today/tomorrow's Fiji Times (http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=276569) reports about someone searching for the elusive bones found on Gardner Island.
-
That is interesting Bruce.
Here is the link to the previous article "Whose Bones" (http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=276568) which was in the related story column.
"The box containing a human skull, old stone adzes, wooden figures and an old army-type knife with US 1918 inscribed on the handle has raised the interest of a historical investigator"
The contents found in the box are a strange mix of different artifacts.
-
That is interesting Bruce.
Here is the link to the previous article "Whose Bones" (http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=276568) which was in the related story column.
"The box containing a human skull, old stone adzes, wooden figures and an old army-type knife with US 1918 inscribed on the handle has raised the interest of a historical investigator"
The contents found in the box are a strange mix of different artifacts.
Seems those doing the perusing at the time enjoyed a bit of anthropological curiosity, not just that of the medic.
The mix of stuff in that box is interesting - I wonder if (and hopE it is) all related to a single find. The eclectic mix does make me wonder about our chances of ever finding a well-filed box of 'as found' bones from Niku, or whether the empire tended to toss things around and rebox too casually for that. Maybe time and the bones chase will yet tell.
-
A TV documentary producer by the name of Joshua Gates is making an Earhart episode for a show called Expedition Unknown. Tom King and I have corresponded with and helped Josh but there is no contractual relationship.
The back-story is that according to a 1969 Fiji Times article, a kid named Grey in Suva found a skull under a house that had belonged to a medical doctor. Mike Elliot-Jones of TIGHAR tracked this down and we've been looking into it. When Josh Gates contacted us about the bones in Fiji we passed this on to him, and he pursued it with Grey, asking the obvious question whether Grey had looked for more bones. Grey said no, so Gates got permission to do so and did.
A couple days ago I got this email from Josh:
"Josh Gates here. I've been filming in Fiji for the last week as part of our Earhart episode. We've been touching down with some of the leads regarding the lost bones theories. We interviewed John Grey, the man who (when he was 13) found a box containing a skull under his house in Suva. Though he maintains the skull was donated to the Fiji museum, they have no record of it in their archives. Obviously, you know all this. After all, nearly everywhere I've traveled to here, people say, "the TIGHAR group was here and they looked through everything!" So...very thorough work by you and your team.
When I was talking with John about the box and the skull, I asked him if he'd ever been back to his childhood house to search under the house for any additional remains. He confessed that he hadn't and that the police didn't do an overly thorough job in 1968 in looking under the house. So, tonight I went there with him, and with permission from the current owner, investigated in the crawl spaces under the house. About an hour into the search, I uncovered a variety of bones directly adjacent to where John Grey found the box and the skull. The crime scene unit from the Fiji police department is there now, and they'll have a forensics guy examining the bones tomorrow. They may well turn out to be animal bones...dead family dog...who knows. But, I wanted to let you know. At a bare minimum, it was an exciting find, and, while I'm not sure Amelia is under that house, someone else might be.
Hope this finds you well, Ric!
Cheers,
Josh
________________________
JOSH GATES | HOST, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER
EXPEDITION UNKNOWN"
Yesterday there was a fairly garbled and wifty article in the Fiji Times about the discovery of bones so now we're getting inquiries about it. It's an interesting development and we're naturally eager to learn whether the bones Josh found are human - but we're still a loooong way from any connection with Earhart.
-
It's an interesting development and we're naturally eager to learn whether the bones Josh found are human - but we're still a loooong way from any connection with Earhart.
Still, any kind of new lead is exciting. Can't wait to see how it turns out!
-
cool news Ric.
I know there are times when it seems kinda slow in the R&D dept. around here....but persistent researchers just keep
steadily plugging along and un-screwing the inscrutable. Sometimes, you just can't make this stuff up
-
Very interesting development. Would be something if those bones were human - and somehow managed to match the 13(?) bones that found their way to Suva from Gardner in 1940.
If they happen to match that odd set, the next steps might be very interesting indeed...
-
Kar Burns would get a kick out of this if they turn out to be THE bones. Wish she was still around to watch this unfold.
LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
-
Cool news!!
Couple of questions for the crew in Fiji:
What kind of box and what happened to it? Presumably given to the museum with the skull in it. Has museum been searched for a box?
Who was the doctor who owned the house in 1968, what kind of doctor was he and what happened to him?
-
Same issue with news articles in another thread here, (for cross reference):
http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1534.0.html (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1534.0.html)
(Should/can these be merged?)
-
His recollection was "According to Mr Grey the skull was given to the Fiji Museum, however, no record of the skull exists in the museum's archive."
So the skull was given to the Fiji museum but no mention of the box and its other contents. It would seem odd though, not to have given the museum the complete find IMHO.
-
Very interesting development. Unfortunately, museums are often notorious for losing artifacts only to "discover" them some years or decades later. Example: The skeleton found in the closet (insert puns here) of the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology. The Fiji museum may have a closet somewhere with the skull in an old dusty box. Provides a ray of hope at least.
-
Who was the doctor who owned the house in 1968, what kind of doctor was he and what happened to him?
Since there appears to be a new investigation about these bones, the authorities in Suva, I would think will sort out who the Doctor was, where he worked and what happened to him. Mr. Gates may already have that information.
-
Since there appears to be a new investigation about these bones, the authorities in Suva, I would think will sort out who the Doctor was, where he worked and what happened to him. Mr. Gates may already have that information.
In our experience it is (cough) hard to underestimate the investigative capabilities of the "authorities in Suva"
-
I'll bet it only takes till noon before someone figures out if Dr. Hoodless ever lived at 12 Kimberly Street in Suva Fiji. I don't even know how to start trying to research that.
-
Same issue with news articles in another thread here, (for cross reference):
http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1534.0.html (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1534.0.html)
(Should/can these be merged?)
Done.
-
I'll bet it only takes till noon before someone figures out if Dr. Hoodless ever lived at 12 Kimberly Street in Suva Fiji. I don't even know how to start trying to research that.
Might have been Hoodless - or others. Previous TIGHAR research turns up a number of possibilities (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/42_FijiBoneSearch.html) - did any of them live at this house and hide the bones there for some reason, long ago? One in particular stands out to me as a real character - pay attention to Dr. Verrier.
-
I'll bet it only takes till noon before someone figures out if Dr. Hoodless ever lived at 12 Kimberly Street in Suva Fiji.
Aside from any number of avenues that may give that information - property titles; tax records; census records; telephone directory etc.- anybody have contact information for his daughter, Margaret Guthrie? She was the author (according to Marty Molesky: http://tighar.org/smf/index.php?topic=1163.0) of a biography of Hoodless published in '79 and may still be with us. Maybe she could say if the good doctor ever lived on Kimberly street or maybe even have some idea as to the significance of that address.
Just a thought.
-
Interesting - Kimberly St is around the corner from the Fiji National Archives - http://mapnplace.com/location/1720/Road_Kimberly_Street_Suva_Fiji
-
Here are some examples of "old stone adzes"
Adzes from Lau Islands-Fiji (http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/document//Volume_47_1938/Volume_47,_No._187/Adzes_from_the_Lau_Islands,_Fiji,_by_Laura_Thompson,_p_97-108/p1)
Adzes from Pacific-Fiji-Samoa-Maori (http://www.arthurbeaupalmer.com/cms/index.php/gallery/pacific/14-consultant-investment-fine-and-tribal-art/pacific/119-pacific-adze-tonga-fiji-samoa-maori)
Why would things like these be under the house with a 1918 US knife, a skull and wooden figures?
-
Here are some examples of "old stone adzes"
Adzes from Lau Islands-Fiji (http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/document//Volume_47_1938/Volume_47,_No._187/Adzes_from_the_Lau_Islands,_Fiji,_by_Laura_Thompson,_p_97-108/p1)
Adzes from Pacific-Fiji-Samoa-Maori (http://www.arthurbeaupalmer.com/cms/index.php/gallery/pacific/14-consultant-investment-fine-and-tribal-art/pacific/119-pacific-adze-tonga-fiji-samoa-maori)
Why would things like these be under the house with a 1918 US knife, a skull and wooden figures?
Sounds like Dr. Verrier was playing under the house to me... ::)
-
Here are some examples of "old stone adzes"
Adzes from Lau Islands-Fiji (http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/document//Volume_47_1938/Volume_47,_No._187/Adzes_from_the_Lau_Islands,_Fiji,_by_Laura_Thompson,_p_97-108/p1)
Adzes from Pacific-Fiji-Samoa-Maori (http://www.arthurbeaupalmer.com/cms/index.php/gallery/pacific/14-consultant-investment-fine-and-tribal-art/pacific/119-pacific-adze-tonga-fiji-samoa-maori)
Why would things like these be under the house with a 1918 US knife, a skull and wooden figures?
Sounds like Dr. Verrier was playing under the house to me... ::)
"Verrier was “odd in every way.”"
I’m glad you posted the link to the Fiji Bone Search Final Report
by Martin X. Moleski, Ph.D., SJ (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/42_FijiBoneSearch.html)
It was good to read it again at this time
-
Aside from any number of avenues that may give that information - property titles; tax records; census records; telephone directory etc.- anybody have contact information for his daughter, Margaret Guthrie?
Please don't try to contact Margaret. We've talked to her several times.
-
Here's a link to the Travel Channel with a teaser for the Expedition Unknown episode about AE. I suspect it will be updated.
http://www.travelchannel.com/video/part-of-earharts-plane-found
-
Central Medical School Suva Fiji
The British colonial services were well known for doing things by the book and creating the need for work where none existed before. It may be a long shot but could any information relating to the items in question have been transferred to the new buildings in 1953/1954 some 6.5 Kilometres away from the Central Medical School?
1953 – Visit by Queen Elizabeth II. She opened the Fiji Medical School at Tamavua.
1953 Main School building opened at Tamavua, 6.5 kms from CWM Hospital , on December 17 1953 by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. Costs largely covered by a grant from the Government of the United Kingdom.
1954 Occupied in the following year providing accommodation for the teaching of basic and pre-clinical sciences, for administration and for residential facilities for up to 60 male students. Also housed the Central Medical Research Library.
-
Here's a link to the Travel Channel with a teaser for the Expedition Unknown episode about AE. I suspect it will be updated.
http://www.travelchannel.com/video/part-of-earharts-plane-found
I don't know what that video is other than really bad. I hope it doesn't have anything to do with the Expedition Unknown show.
-
Whoooooo boy. That's 4 minutes of my life I won't get back.
Besides, TIGHAR did a research paper on that bit o' plane some time ago, if I remember correctly.
LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
-
Besides, TIGHAR did a research paper on that bit o' plane some time ago, if I remember correctly.
Yeah. That hunk of metal sat on my desk for four months. Lion Television, a British production company who make shows for the PBS History Detectives series, asked us to investigate whether it is really from NR16020. We did. It is, but not from the location they allege in their show. Our experience with Lyin' Television was, shall we say, educational.
We wrote up our research in a bulletin we called A Piece of the Grail (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/54_HistoryDetectives/%20%2054_HDreport.html).
-
Josh Gates had a show on SyFy called "Destination: Truth" last year or so. Lot of paranormal stuff. It was canceled. Premise has been picked-up by Travel Channel and retitled "Expedition Unknown". Same person, same (basically) show, different network. Supposed to start sometime this fall.
-
Please don't try to contact Margaret.
Seriously?!! You jumped right to that conclusion?
We've talked to her several times.
And...?
-
Please don't try to contact Margaret.
Seriously?!! You jumped right to that conclusion?
Just being careful.
We've talked to her several times.
And...?
[/quote]
She doesn't have any information that is useful to our investigation.
-
This from Josh Gates' Twitter page:
https://twitter.com/joshuagates
Gates is on the right. Presumably the other gentleman is John Grey, the person who found the box/skull in 1969.
Gates' Twitter page says he's in Peru today. Guess nothing came of the bones find.
-
And...?
And she doesn't have the bones or either of the boxes.
And she hasn't seen anything in her father's correspondence or memorabilia that talk about the case.
Here is the biography she wrote about her father (http://ebookbrowsee.net/chapter-1-misi-utu-pdf-d37154762). It is a short, but worthwhile read. It helped me understand the WPHC and Fiji.
-
And she hasn't seen anything in her father's correspondence or memorabilia that talk about the case.
I'm sure you're right. How foolish of me to think that correspondence or memorabilia might in some way have an address associated with it.
-
This from Josh Gates' Twitter page:
https://twitter.com/joshuagates
Gates is on the right. Presumably the other gentleman is John Grey, the person who found the box/skull in 1969.
Gates' Twitter page says he's in Peru today. Guess nothing came of the bones find.
Oh my I just connected some dots, this is the "TV documentary producer" that this lead came from? I know I'm judging the messenger here, but has anyone here actually seen his work? "Documentary" isn't necessarily the most appropriate term for what he produces. Perhaps the precis from Travel Channel will give the picture:
"Expedition Unknown chronicles the adventures of Josh Gates as he investigates iconic mysteries across the globe. Gates begins by interviewing key eyewitnesses and uncovering recent developments in the story, then springboards into a fully immersive exploration. This authentic, roughshod adventure leads Gates closer to the truth behind these unanswered global enigmas, such as the disappearance of Amelia Earhart’s plane.
Josh Gates is an adventurer and avid explorer with a unique brand of humor and passion for off-the-map excursions."
Hopefully those "off-the-map excursions" don't include Niku! And, no I'm not suggesting this necessarily effects the potential veracity of the new bones lead.
-
Josh Gates seems to have all the earmarks of a first class phony.
-
Josh Gates seems to have all the earmarks of a first class phony.
Oh, I don't know, I think your just jealous. You wish you could "springboard into fully immersive exploration" and lead a life of "authentic roughshod adventure." Come to think of it I wish I could too, but only if I can have a cool theme song. Now where did I put John Williams' email address...
Oh the bitter injustice of it all. Well funded tripe versus... Any way, happy Friday.
-
What's immersive or authentic about it? It's TV... more like saturated with fertilizer. ;D
-
...You wish you could "springboard into fully immersive exploration" and...
Sorry, forgot about the guano pit incident. But that still leaves "authentic roughshod adventure."
I'll stop, I promise.
-
This looks like a perfect opportunity to go completely off-topic and give you all a sneak peek at a brand new line of T-shirts we're calling "Reality Wear (http://tighar.org/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=146)." Yes, TIGHAR has gone "edgy," or maybe "cynical," but definitely "smart ass." Let me know what you think.
-
*wonders if he can get away with wearing these at work, decides it might be fun to find out*
I still want to see the complete line of TIGHAR bumper sticker wisdom ;D
LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
-
I still want to see the complete line of TIGHAR bumper sticker wisdom ;D
Patience. Let's see how these shirts sell. This is an experiment.
-
I have a strong recollection of seeing a TV documentary, decades ago, wherein a film crew went to Fiji to investigate this.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to get any source to take my investigation seriously, no responses, no replies.
It seemed fantastic at the time, but the image I recall was the film crew walking down a corridor in a Fiji institution and a curator sliding out a drawer to reveal parts of a skeleton and saying "those are the remains of Amelia Earhart.
-
Sounds like a precognition event, Tim. :)
-
Sounds like a precognition event, Tim. :)
Courtesy of Youtube I've been able to find much video that I saw only once on TV and never seen advertised for repeat. It's provided a good opportunity to contrast memory with actual, provided Youtube holds the same release version.
Recently I found and posted up about Wings of Hope (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1517.msg32829.html#msg32829) which is one example.
I found the documentary a must for those who are interested in air crash survival.
-
I found the documentary a must for those who are interested in air crash survival.
Personally, I'm more focused on air crash prevention.
-
I found the documentary a must for those who are interested in air crash survival.
Personally, I'm more focused on air crash prevention.
Agreed.
It seems to me that there's a place for studying those disasters that at the time were, or seemed at the time to be, unforeseeable.
-
Commercials have started airing for the premiere of this Expedition Unknown show on the Travel Channel. The 2-hour-long first episode about Amelia Earhart airs January 8. The host apparently spends his time in New Guinea and Fiji.
http://www.travelchannel.com/tv-shows/expedition-unknown/episodes/amelia-earhart
-
"In the 2-hour season premiere of Expedition Unknown, adventurer Josh Gates hunts down new evidence on the disappearance of Amelia Earhart. He treks to uncharted tribal lands in Papua New Guinea and ends his journey in Fiji, hoping to uncover the pilot’s remains." Allllllllllllllllllllll righty then! Just a few queries:
1) If he's trekking uncharted tribal lands, then how did he find them? Trekking implies being able to somehow locate yourself on the big blue marble I like to call Earth. Uncharted indicates he was just wandering around somewhere.
2) Fiji and pilot's remains would be, I guess, the missing bones from Gallagher's find on Gardner? Maybe Josh has an inside track (or would that be trek?, see above) into the inner workings of the government of Fiji?
3) I must stop trying to apply logic to television mockumentaries. Back to fine-tuning the eggnog recipe.
LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
-
The snake oil miracle cure peddlers never left us. These are the same guys - they just dropped the painted wagon in favor of first class travel.
-
Here's what I know about adventurer Josh Gates and his Fiji bones. Last summer some TIGHAR researchers chasing a rumor tracked down a 1968 story in the Fiji Times about a kid who found a skull under his porch. A close look at the poor-quality photo that accompanied the article seemed to indicate that skull was not the one found on Gardner (no broken right cheek bone). Enter adventurer Josh Gates who learns about TIGHAR's inquiry into the incident, locates the kid (now grown), goes to the house, and crawls around under the porch looking for more bones. This makes for great television. Adventurer Josh Gates finds a bunch of bones under the porch but it's not at all clear whether they're human or otherwise. He calls in the police who take custody of the bones. Adventurer Josh Gates leaves on the next flight out of the country. Rumors circulated that the house was once owned or rented by Dr. Hoodless who examined the Niku bones, but those rumors turned out to be groundless. I'm not aware of anything further from the police.
Last fall adventurer Josh Gates was here at TIGHAR HQ with a film crew to interview your obedient servant. I have no recollection of what we talked about but I do recall that I was astounded by the amount of equipment the six-person film crew had with them and by the youth and inexperience of the crew. It took them four hours to shoot what our video guru Mark Smith can shoot better in half an hour.
I have no idea what the Travel Channel show will have to say about Amelia Earhart but I'll be hiding under the bed on January 8th.
-
Under the bed - now THAT is droll!!! ;D
Beats crawling under that porch in Fiji!