TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Randy Conrad on August 31, 2013, 08:44:44 PM
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I ran across this last night as I was researchin in the Chicago Times archives. As I was reading this article, I was wondering what type of fishing line Putnam was referring to in light of Noonan's sitting on a rock and fishing away. Also, there is mention of Amelia and Fred having a life raft on board the Electra also. So my question is....does anyone know what type of poles or actual fisihing lines Noonan may have had onboard and what size or type of life raft they had at the time?
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You think...if indeed a life raft was onboard at the time of the emergency landing...it would be accessable to use to transport items from point A to point B without having to walk back and forth all the time. Plus, a life raft would be very handy and very useful to catch rainwater if given the chance.
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That's the thing, Randy, we don't know what was aboard the Electra for the second world flight attempt. The best we have is the inventory by the USAAC after her Luke Field crash that ended the first attempt - and it showed a life raft was not carried. There are anecdotal reports that the fliers had a raft for the second attempt but it was left behind in Lae, New Guinea, to lighten the aircraft. But that is only an anecdote.
LTM, who loves lists,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
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Marty,
What happened to the message "since last log on". It is a pain to go through the list of subjects to find where you may have left off?
Ted Campell
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Marty,
What happened to the message "since last log on". It is a pain to go through the list of subjects to find where you may have left off?
Ted Campell
Click on thumbnail to see the answer to your question:
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Hey Monty...Thanks for replying back to this topic. I was sitting at home this morning and started pondering on what I had posted yesterday. I guess I'm curious to find out from Karen Hoy, Ric, Tom, and others about what kind of archival information we have attributing to what they indeed left behind in Lae. What I'm trying to find out here is do we have actual evidence that a life raft was left there and other objects? Also, during the D.C. Conference Joe Cernigilia started talking about the "flying laboratory". Exactly what was her purpose and main objective goal with the flying laboratory? Was she conducting tests for the military, companies funding the World Flight project, or just for personal use. I guess I'm really baffled because of all the archive pictures I've seen that not one picture I've seen indicates any kind of laboratory experiment or product being used in small or large quantities. Kinda of like the stuff you would find on a bathroom shelf from your wife or girlfriend. Anyway, trying to figure out if this is the case...why anyone would leave a life raft behind. It's just not logical in my books!!!
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Here's an example of one of the experiments Randy from a previous thread.
http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,642.0.html (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,642.0.html)
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Exactly what was her purpose and main objective goal with the flying laboratory?
Earhart's main objective with the "flying laboratory" was the same as it had been with her previous aircraft - self promotion - but 1937 the record-setting, long-distance flying game was getting stale. Just flying someplace wasn't good enough any more. The "flying laboratory" thing was mostly a marketing gimmick and a way for Purdue to justify funding the purchase of the airplane. They did make some attempt to take samples of the upper atmosphere to determine if any insects and bacteria were present. This involved Noonan putting out a pole with a screening device on the end. The pole was held in place by mounts just outside the cabin door. In Earhart's notes for "World Flight" she makes reference to Fred "going back to catch a bug." AE also talked about being interested in the effects of long distance flying on the the human body and I've seen references to her having a selection of sunglasses with her.
...why anyone would leave a life raft behind. It's just not logical in my books!!!
Ah, but you're not thinking like the early long-distance flyers. Lindbergh carried neither parachute nor life raft. In long-distance flying, weight was paramount. The more survival gear you carried, the greater the chance that you'd need it. AE and FN had to know that if they came down at sea and survived the ditching, their chances of being found before they died of thirst or exposure were almost nil. Itasca had no search plan in the event Earhart didn't show up. Earhart never asked that they have one. She seems to have accepted the fact that, just as with her previous flights, the price of failure was death - and she was right.
In 1928, prior to being recruited for the Friendship flight that catapulted her to fame, Earhart wrote a now-famous poem that seems to provide some hint about her priorities:
“Courage is the price that Life exacts for granting peace,
The soul that knows it not, knows no release,
From little things;
Knows not the livid loneliness of fear
Nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear
The sound of wings.”
It's a theme common in literature. Shakespeare's Julius Caesar said:
"Cowards die many times before their death.
The valiant never taste of death but once."
We can all accept and even embrace the sentiment but we vary in the degree to which we apply it in our own lives. What was it that Amelia Earhart was willing to risk death for? Fame? Fortune? Or was it "release from little things"? I think it's a fascinating question.
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. . . .What was it that Amelia Earhart was willing to risk death for? Fame? Fortune? Or was it "release from little things"? I think it's a fascinating question.
Ric, I honestly think Amelia Earhart's drive, if perhaps not quite as epic, was akin to the likes of Homer, Polo, Magellan, Lewis & Clark, Lindberg, or George Mallory: "Because it's there."
Unfortunately, as with a myriad of other tragic heroes (Icarus comes to mind) her reach exceeded her grasp.
my 2 cents.
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Hi All
In the first PDF that Randy posted, George Putnam comments Miss Earhart probably rigged up the planes aerial to send SOS
Is it possible he knew the belly aerial was ripped off on takeoff or knew of another reason why it would not be rigged up anyway ?
Thanks Richie
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In the first PDF that Randy posted, George Putnam comments Miss Earhart probably rigged up the planes aerial to send SOS
Is it possible he knew the belly aerial was ripped off on takeoff or knew of another reason why it would not be rigged up anyway ?
The belly wire was a receiving antenna. All that was needed to send distress calls was the vee antenna on the top of the airplane. If George Putnam acknowledged that radio distress calls were sent, whether he realized it or not, he was acknowledging that the plane was on land and on its landing gear.
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Like Randy, I've also seen several news article that mention the 'fact' that a life raft was on-board the Electra. This could be rumor used throughout the news sources and repeated as if it were fact. It would be great to find that one piece of documentation stating what items were actually on-board during the Lae-Howland leg.
And that's interesting to know it was the vee antenna that was used for transmitting radio signals. What was the loop antenna for?
LTM~ who remembers decorating her car antenna,
Stacy
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loop was the direction finder
amck
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And that's interesting to know it was the vee antenna that was used for transmitting radio signals. What was the loop antenna for?
NR16020 antennas (http://tighar.org/wiki/Antennas).
Loop antenna (http://tighar.org/wiki/Loop_antenna).
Trailing wire antenna (http://tighar.org/wiki/Trailing_antenna).
The Lost Antenna (http://tighar.org/wiki/The_Lost_Antenna).
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Thank you Marty and Andrew. I had switched the antennas around in my mind and somehow made the loop antenna the transmitting antenna.
After spending 20+ years in the Air Force, I know virtually nil about aircraft... I spent my whole career on Communication Bases-without a plane in sight. What I do know about aircraft, I've learned on this site :)
I'm still amazed at how much technology was actually in those planes in that day and age.
Now, I'll get back to reading in Ameliapedia...
LTM~ Who now knows her loops and vees,
Stacy
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Here is another article that I find very interesting and may be of valuable use to our research. Anyway, if someone would shed some light on what this life raft looks like or how big it was, would be really helpful! Thanks!!!!
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Hi Randy
I found this image on a website a while back, http://fineartamerica.com/featured/airplane-wreck-bob-abraham.html
The wreck is in waianae Honolulu north of the location mentioned in your PDF i have checked it out though and there is no inspection access plate above left side cockpit window
Interesting find though
Thanks Richie
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Here is another article that I find very interesting and may be of valuable use to our research. Anyway, if someone would shed some light on what this life raft looks like or how big it was, would be really helpful! Thanks!!!!
Randy, here is a link to a video of the crew loading the Electra (http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675063657_Amelia-Earhart-Putnam_Fred-Noonan_transatlantic-flight_Fred-Noonan) for the first attempt in March, 1937. At one point during the loading, they appear to remove what could be a life raft from its storage container, to maybe reduce weight? If you scroll down from the video, there is a series of stills made from the video.
I don't know if this will help you any or not.
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I found this image on a website a while back, http://fineartamerica.com/featured/airplane-wreck-bob-abraham.html
Richie,
That's interesting. Any idea how long it was underwater (appears recent), and at what depth (looks fairly shallow) ?
[Edit to spell Richie's name correctly.]
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At one point during the loading, they appear to remove what could be a life raft from its storage container, to maybe reduce weight? If you scroll down from the video, there is a series of stills made from the video.
Yeah, I'd say that's definitely a life raft and yet there was no raft in the Luke Field inventory so they apparently decided not to take it along. The film, and the weighing of equipment, might have been done before they decided to take Noonan along. Taking a fourth person would necessitate weight reduction and that life raft doesn't look like it would accommodate four people anyway.
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Probably not the place to post this (moderator?), but in another thread I read the other day, there was a discussion about the seven site(?) and what type of canteen/canvas water container AE/FN may have had with them on the last flight. Did anyone notice that in the "Loading the Electra" video link in post #17 above, that at about time interval 0:40 AE is placing a canteen near the scales to be weighed. Not sure this will have a bearing on the other thread discussion, but I noticed the canteen and thought I would mention it in light of the other discussion thread. Also, will try to find the other thread and make the notice there also, if someone doesn't beat me to it.
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Did anyone notice that in the "Loading the Electra" video link in post #17 above, that at about time interval 0:40 AE is placing a canteen near the scales to be weighed.
Yes, I noticed that. There were a couple of canteens in the Luke Field inventory. Another photo shows a desert water bag.
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Yes, I noticed that. There were a couple of canteens in the Luke Field inventory. Another photo shows a desert water bag.
Ric. I found a copy of what appears to be the same picture on corbisimages.com (http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/U401403AACME/amelia-earhart-preparing-for-flight?popup=1). The write up with the picture seems to indicate that it may have been made prior to the second attempt.
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... The write up with the picture seems to indicate that it may have been made prior to the second attempt.
Yeah, but look at the date that the picture was purported to have been taken: July 07, 1937.
I'm not convinced of either where or when this picture was really taken.
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I'm not convinced of either where or when this picture was really taken.
The caption is "Here is the last picture made in Los Angeles of Amelia Earhart, missing with her navigator in the mid-Pacific. The picture was made as she completed preparations for her ill-fated flight."
I'm always suspicious of "this is the last picture" captions. Few of them are accurate.
We have several photos that we know were taken in Burbank on May 20 when she was loading the airplane for the "secret" departure of the second attempt. In this one some, but not all, of the same luggage is present and AE is wearing a jacket over a polka-dot shirt.
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I'm not convinced of either where or when this picture was really taken.
The caption is "Here is the last picture made in Los Angeles of Amelia Earhart, missing with her navigator in the mid-Pacific. The picture was made as she completed preparations for her ill-fated flight."
I'm always suspicious of "this is the last picture" captions. Few of them are accurate.
We have several photos that we know were taken in Burbank on May 20 when she was loading the airplane for the "secret" departure of the second attempt. In this one some, but not all, of the same luggage is present and AE is wearing a jacket over a polka-dot shirt.
The file that Ric has in his message is in a PhotoShop proprietary format. I'm attaching a jpeg version of it here for those who don't have PhotoShop.
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Ric,
Can we get a close up view of the wooden box sitting on top of the suite cases. What kind of "dove tale" corners are on the box? Any numbers present?
Ted
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Can we get a close up view of the wooden box sitting on top of the suite cases. What kind of "dove tale" corners are on the box? Any numbers present?
I don't see any dovetail corners and I'm not sure it's even made of wood. It's certainly not like any sextant box I've ever seen, but it might contain navigation plotting tools (triangle, dividers, etc.).