TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: richie conroy on May 22, 2013, 03:39:11 AM
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Hi All
I believe that Artifact 2.6.S-03a and 2.6.S-03b are part of the Book Case found on Gardner.
Below are images of the objects, and i have added a close up of were i think 1 clip goes.
In the 3rd image i have added white lines pointing to clips at the back of box, Does anyone else see the similarities in appearance ?
Thanks Richie
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Does anyone else see the similarities in appearance ?
There's really no similarity. The corner braces on the navigator's bookcase as simple right angles attached with rivets. The screws on the 2-6-S-03a&b are wood screws.
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I have often thought about them being from Gallaghers 'house' near the seven site but would have thought that there would be more like them found.
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I have often thought about them being from Gallaghers 'house' near the seven site but would have thought that there would be more like them found.
The trouble with that hypothesis is that the screws are American, which would tend to suggest a Coast Guard origin.
But the aluminum plates are crudely fashioned, not manufactured, so whatever they are they're apparently not from some standard piece of equipment but have been amateur-made for some special purpose - which is what makes them so hard to identify. We're probably not going to find an existing example.
My guess is that they're from the sextant box and were part of a system for securing something within the box.
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American Screws don't exclude a settler origin.....but trade was mostly between empire states so on balance pre LORAN we are looking Castaway, post LORAN settler activity.
What is intriguing is the toothed pattern on both that says to me some kind of locking mechanism.
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Hi All
Ric
Surly if the the bookcase WAS from the Electra and in the area Tighar once speculated, i.e under navigators table which was made of wood, Surly wood screws would be used to fix it to underside of table ? As you can't rivet into wood
Thanks Richie
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Surly if the the bookcase WAS from the Electra and in the area Tighar once speculated, i.e under navigators table which was made of wood, Surly wood screws would be used to fix it to underside of table ? As you can't rivet into wood
The bookcase was made for a Consolidated Model 28 (PBY). There's no doubt about that. It has a part number on it. We suspected that it might have been modified for installation on the Electra because the mounting holes and some other features were wrong for the PBY. We later discovered that PBY bookcases were installed in some Consolidated Model 32 (Liberator) aircraft. The modifications on our bookcase exactly match the the way the bookcases were modified for installation in Liberators.
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Ric your quote, "our bookcase exactly match the the way the bookcases were modified for installation in Liberators"
My apologies in advance if am wrong here.
But i have never seen or read about an actual Electra bookcase design, With that i doubt even if the Electra did have one made there would be no place to fix it too as the navigators area was only small with windows either side, so if plausible one removed from a liberator might fit snug under navigators table, In other words only cos it matches that of another aircraft design don't mean it weren't in Electra as a late addition
This is just my opinion ???
Thanks Richie
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My apologies in advance if am wrong here.
The contract for Consolidated to build a prototype of the Model 32 Liberator was awarded in March 1939.
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Ric,
How common was it back in the 30’s for Aviation Company’s to share design and manufacturing details? I don’t see Consolidated selling a cabinet to Lockheed.
Ted Campbell
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How common was it back in the 30’s for Aviation Company’s to share design and manufacturing details? I don’t see Consolidated selling a cabinet to Lockheed.
My speculation when I was trying to think of a way for the bookcase to be aboard the Electra was that Earhart (or more likely Mantz) got it directly from Consolidated in San Diego.
Let me reiterate that I do not think it is reasonable to speculate that the bookcase was ever aboard NR16020.
• We know that bookcases set up just like this one were used on some Liberators.
• Earhart disappeared in 1937. The Liberator was designed in 1939.
• We have found other airplanes parts on the island that are definitely from a Liberator.
• A Liberator is known to have crashed on Canton Island during WWII.
• People from Nikumaroro are known to have worked on Canton after the war.
We have found airplane parts in the abandoned village on Nikumaroro that I feel quite sure are from NR16020 but the bookcase is not one of them.
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See attachments for a theory of these artifacts being fasteners for a strap to the Sextant box. I think the theory has reasonable answers to all of these questions:
What manmade wood items were known to be at the Seven Site that could have had a wood screw?
The sextant box.
Why would a strap be attached to the box?
To make it easier to carry on and off the plane. More frequent loading than its original intended use on a ship. It could have been reason this container was selected to carry across the island.
(that wire pull handle seems a clumsy way to carry something long distances)
Why are there two of them?
One for each end of the strap that connected it to the box
Why are there teeth?
To grip the strap so the screw does not tear it or stretch the hole too much. As the strap material is forced into the “V” it compresses and gets taller, so it grips. The points of the teeth may also dig in.
Why are the teeth slightly rounded?
So they don’t cut the strap
Why is there no screw in the second hole?
To allow the fastener to be sewn to the strap so the teeth always point in the direction to oppose the pulling force of the strap.
Why is the hole without a screw described as "Three-lobed" (http://tighar.org/wiki/2-6-S-03a_and_2-6-S-03b)?
Because an awl or heavy needle may have been used to sew it to a leather strap.
Why are the ends of the plates rounded around the open hole?
So the stitching could be equal length ( a radial or fan pattern)
How could one get bent like that?
Pulling the strap sideways could bend the fastener like that.
Why is there significant rotational scoring at the screws?
To rotate the strap out of the way when stored. Or possibly to secure the box to the inside of the plane.
When the strap rotated, so did the clip. The screw did not rotate so the screw scored the clip (IMO more than just one time).
Why is there no rotational scoring on the bottom of the fasteners?
Because the strap was under the fastener and washers between it and the box.
Why are the teeth so close to the screw?
To compress the strap between the teeth and the washers below.
Note that I did not come up with this theory by looking at a picture. I reverse engineered a theory first, looking at the artifacts, and theorizing that they are related to the sextant box, then encouraged by Jeff Nevill, looked for a picture that had the features that supported the theory.
There is a picture of a fastener that has several features that support this theory. Including being about the right size, having a screw on one end and evidence of the other hole sewn to the strap. The box it is attached to, has what looks like a dovetail joint, which the sextant box found in 1940 was reported to have.
I know it’s not logical that the Sextant box would be under the plane like that but it could have already been used latterly as a receptacle before the last flight or there were two boxes at the Seven site at one time, or Fred took the sextant out and let them use only the box for some reason. Or maybe mechanics tried to use the box before Fred stopped them.
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Ric....What type of metal screws are these? Are they brass, etc. If they're brass or something similar to this, you would think they're used for some sort of grounding device.
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After reading the FBI report in regards to the Navigators Bookcase and its chemical analysis...My question is...Was the navigator's bookcase used for another purpose? Like possibly a battery holding container. After, reading the recent post of G Daspit and attachment provided; I'm convinced that this is a battery holding compartment used to transport a battery on and off a plane. With the makeup mentioned in the report, some of the chemicals mentioned are that consistent with a battery. Mainly gel batteries. As a person who works in the battery field, I see this yellow sloppy material everyday. When I was younger I remembered my grandfather always telling me never to mess with this type of battery. Very messy!!! As batteries age or are exposed to the elements, alot of things transpire...such as the cases cracking, exposing the gel or acid, corrosion buildup and rust. So it makes you wonder....
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See attachments for a theory of these artifacts being fasteners for a strap to the Sextant box.
Nicely done. I think your theory has merit. I'm less convinced that the photo shows something similar aboard the Electra. What photo is that a detail from?
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See attachments for a theory of these artifacts being fasteners for a strap to the Sextant box.
What photo is that a detail from?
The larger image was taken from the online Purdue Archives, image #63 (http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=%2Fearhart&CISOPTR=327&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMMODE=viewer&DMFULL=1&DMX=0&DMY=1870&DMTEXT=%2520FRED%2520NOONAN&DMTHUMB=1&REC=3&DMROTATE=0&x=82&y=434)
"Amelia Earhart underneath he wing of the Electra"
Zoomed in on it before saving a copy. I think it shows the thread pattern and a possible button or gasket over the smaller hole better than the other images.
It's the box (likely a tool box) to the far left.
The smaller image at the bottom left of the pdf is the same image but a 300dpi copy ordered.
I also ordered their old 600 dpi scan they had on file and ordered a new 600dpi scan but they both came out with too much contrast in that area. I attached the 300 dpi image to the pdf because I beleive it showed what may be teeth better and the screw looks like it has a rounded head and looks off center, similar to the artifact.
What I think is similar is the rounded head screw in one hole and a radial, or fan stitch pattern in the other. It may be more of a similar method of attaching straps to boxes so they can both be carried and then anchored to the plane than an exact match.
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Here is an image that shows how the bubble octant may have been secured when Fred was with Pan Am.
Here is the link where this picture came from (http://timeandnavigation.si.edu/multimedia-asset/fred-noonan-navigating-a-pan-am-sikorsky-s-42)
Note the box has a latch but also has a strap, possibly holding down not just the lid but the whole box to the table.
So if he secured his bubble octant this way he may have wanted to secure his preventer sextant as well, and made modfications to do so.
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It may be more of a similar method of attaching straps to boxes so they can both be carried and then achored to the plane than an exact match.
Perhaps, but that box beside the mechanic in the photo is certainly not a Brandis sextant box.
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Here is an image that shows how the bubble octant may have been secured when Fred was with Pan Am.
Here is the link where this picture came from (http://timeandnavigation.si.edu/multimedia-asset/fred-noonan-navigating-a-pan-am-sikorsky-s-42)
Note the box has a latch but also has a strap, possibly holding down not just the lid but the whole box to the table.
So if he secured his bubble octant this way he may have wanted to secure his preventer sextant as well, and made modfications to do so.
Nice catch. I've seen that photo many times but never spotted the bubble octant box with strap.
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Here is an image that shows how the bubble octant may have been secured when Fred was with Pan Am.
Here is the link where this picture came from (http://timeandnavigation.si.edu/multimedia-asset/fred-noonan-navigating-a-pan-am-sikorsky-s-42)
Note the box has a latch but also has a strap, possibly holding down not just the lid but the whole box to the table.
So if he secured his bubble octant this way he may have wanted to secure his preventer sextant as well, and made modifications to do so.
Just a thought, have the image archives at Si.Edu (http://timeandnavigation.si.edu) been searched for AE and FN? I searched on FN and came up with images I'd never seen of both AE and FN.
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I know this is an old thread and my apologies for dredging it up but reading the Lambrecht thread (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1448.0.html) led me to read the Hooven Report (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Hooven_Report/HoovenReport.html) and I was struck by the all references to direction finding (DF) equipment, DF Antenna's, DF experience, etc. So when I saw the images at Si.edu of AE holding a DF loop antenna and saw the letter from Putnam (http://timeandnavigation.si.edu/multimedia-asset/letter-from-g-p-putnam-to-weems-declining-navigation-instruction-on-behalf-of-his) to Weems declining celestial navigation training (http://timeandnavigation.si.edu/multimedia-asset/letter-from-p-v-h-weems-to-amelia-earhart-offering-navigational-instruction) it seemed like small pieces of the larger puzzle.
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I don't know bout you guys...but how does Ric sleep with all this excitement building up with possible new leads? It's now 1:30 in the morning in Kansas and I can't believe I'm up looking at metal clips with teeth in them. Okay, here is my thinking. These clips to me resemble the clips used on lawnmowers in a way. If you think about it...take your start/stop bracket on your own push mower at home and then proceed down the handle about 3-4 inches. There you will notice a clip or a bracket that will hold the cable to the start/stop in place. I think the teeth in these little brackets were meant to be used to push into something and at the same time hold a cable or wire of some sorts. The wire would be between the opposite end of the teeth and the teeth area. Mainly under the bend in the clip. Now that I think about it...its a possiblity that these are "grounding clips" to prevent electrical shock in case of a lightning storm or electrical short. I was gonna say that they might hold something under the dash per say...but the more I think about it wanna lean to the grounding clips...that is if the Lockheed Electra had them in the first place! Anyone else wanna take a stab at this...Afterall, you'll be the one buying the donuts...Good Morning Everyone!!!! Have an Awesome Day!!!!