TIGHAR

Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Ric Gillespie on February 28, 2013, 09:57:15 AM

Title: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on February 28, 2013, 09:57:15 AM
A new 64-page issue of our journal TIGHAR Tracks is being mailed to TIGHAR members.  The articles will eventually go up on the TIGHAR website but it's only fair that dues-paying TIGHAR members be the first to see them.  If you're not already a TIGHAR member there's still time to join (http://tighar.org/membership.html) and receive your copy right away.  Here's an overview of the articles and a couple of pages from the journal.

Niku VII
Excerpts from Expedition Leader Ric Gillespie’s personal journal, sonar maps of a never-before-seen underwater realm, and photographer Laurie Rubin’s stunning pictures provide a blow-by-blow account of an historic - and frustrating - expedition.


Lessons From A Buffalo
When you’re looking for something, it’s good to know what to look for.  What does airplane wreckage look like after seventy-plus years in a high-energy coral reef environment? The recent discovery of a Brewster F2A “Buffalo” at Midway Atoll provides some answers.


The Object Formerly Known As Nessie
The Bevington Object is an incredibly small speck in an impossibly obscure photograph that appears to show wreckage from the Earhart aircraft on the reef at Gardner Island in 1937. Is there other evidence that supports the idea that an object in that place at that time might be wreckage from the Electra? What can experts see in such a tiny picture that allows them to identify it so specifically?  Do we have to take their opinion on faith or can we see it for ourselves?

 
Part Number 41065
One of the elements that appears to be identifiable in the Bevington Object is part of the retraction mechanism listed in the Lockheed Model 10 Parts Catalog as “Part Number 41065 – Gear, worm.” If our identification of the part is correct, its presence in the photo guarantees that the wreckage on the reef in the 1937 photo is specifically from the Earhart aircraft.


The Dogs That Didn't Bark
Just as important as the numerous pieces of archival, photographic and artifact evidence that point to the Earhart/Noonan flight having ended at Gardner Island are the people and events that might have discovered the fate of the lost flyers – but didn’t.  These are the dogs that didn’t bark and they provide us with as many clues about what happened as the dogs that did.


Time and Tide
The available evidence suggests that Amelia Earhart landed her Lockheed Electra on a particular section of the reef at Gardner Island (now Nikumaroro) and sent radio distress calls or several days before the aircraft was lost to rising tides and surf – but was that possible?  TIGHAR Researcher Bob Brandenburg’s technical paper explains how we calculated the water levels on that part of the reef at particular times more than three-quarters of a century ago, and how we discovered the remarkable way in which those water levels correlate with the credible post-loss radio signals.

Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ted G Campbell on March 04, 2013, 09:23:26 PM
To: Ric

Just received the latest “TIGHAR Tracks”.  Great job!

I’ve been looking at the article regarding “Nessie”.  If you accept Jeff’s interpretation of the object you will note the gear is pointing in the opposite direction of the landing suggested by the TIGHAR hypothesis. i.e. look which way the “worm” gear is pointing.

How does one explain this?  Kind'a easy and a subject for someone to put into an animation.

Look down on the aircraft and assume the landing direction is consistent with TIGHAR’s assumption:

1)   the right gear is toward the shore line and is free to rotate counter clockwise
a)   the right engine must be able to power up to drive the generator for radio power i.e. in shallow tidal waters
b)   where are the tidal forces most powerful – on the tail of the aircraft toward the shoreline- counter clockwise?  And if you don’t lock the brakes up more torque applied to the left strut
c)   the aircraft tends to rotate counter clockwise around the left gear
d)   the only resistance by the left gear is the centering cam within the strut – there is no drag link to give additional resistance.  The centering cam provides a high stress point within the oleo strut assembly i.e. a single point of rotational resistance
e)   the oleo strut fractures at the centering cam, and inertia spins the tire and lower strut counter clockwise brining the fender toward the sea view from Bevington’s camera

2)   once the lower strut fractures the aircraft is free to turn 180 degrees from the landing direction
a)   tidal forces continue to force the gear to fracture at the upper gear attach points
b)   aircraft is now free from major resistance and slides off the tidal flat
c)   upper strut with worm gear and lower strut with tire and fender are stuck in shore grove i.e. worm gear and remaining strut cylinder appears to be below water level
d)   brakelines keep the gear parts together

And Bevington snaps his picture!
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Matt Revington on March 05, 2013, 08:26:23 AM
This may be a naive question but what is the best guess for what the Bevington object is attached to under the water line.  Would it still need to be attached to part of the wing/engine in order to stand upside down like that or could the strut be stuck in some groove or crack in the reef surface?  Are there large heavy parts attached to the landing gear not visible in standard photos of the outside of the Electra that would cause it to adopt this orientation without  requiring a big piece of intact wing?  Its just that ( to me) the bigger the aircraft fragment the more likely it would have been spotted.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 05, 2013, 08:45:12 AM
This may be a naive question but what is the best guess for what the Bevington object is attached to under the water line.  Would it still need to be attached to part of the wing/engine in order to stand upside down like that or could the strut be stuck in some groove or crack in the reef surface?  Are there large heavy parts attached to the landing gear not visible in standard photos of the outside of the Electra that would cause it to adopt this orientation without  requiring a big piece of intact wing?  Its just that ( to me) the bigger the aircraft fragment the more likely it would have been spotted.

If the Bevington Object is what it appears to be it is not "standing upside down."  It is the wreckage of one of the main gear assemblies that has come apart in the same way the right main gear did in the Luke Field accident.  It is not attached to any other part of the airplane.   It may be stuck in a groove in the reef but there is almost no structure hidden under the water line.  You really need to see the article in TIGHAR Tracks.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Greg Daspit on March 05, 2013, 10:44:03 AM
Matt, this PDF sketch is my understanding of how the top part could be resting.
I think the top part would have at least 3 spread out bearing points, plus possible support from any of the other tangled parts. Similar to the Luke Field accident.

Great issue of TIGHAR TRACKS.
Especially the adventure before the adventure, and all of the tables, figures and illustrations.

edit: I don't know how the cross bar is really attached.The sketch is to illustrate bearing points
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 05, 2013, 11:23:43 AM
Matt, this PDF sketch is my understanding of how the top part could be resting.

That's pretty good Greg.  Thanks.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Matt Revington on March 05, 2013, 01:16:18 PM
Thanks Greg and Ric, that clears up a lot for me and makes more sense than what I previously thought.

Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Gary LaPook on March 05, 2013, 09:23:45 PM
I paid dues this year, where is my copy of TIGHAR Tracks?

gl
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Bruce Thomas on March 06, 2013, 07:39:56 AM
I paid dues this year, where is my copy of TIGHAR Tracks?

gl

Gary, yours is probably on the same USPS semi mine is on, rolling down the interstate highway thru the mushy snows. They will land in our mailboxes when the time is right. After all, the first report on the Forum of the receipt of one was only 34 hours ago! Let's hope they get delivered before Saturday deliveries are curtailed (in August!).  :D 
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 06, 2013, 07:57:42 AM
I paid dues this year, where is my copy of TIGHAR Tracks?

Yes, you are a dues-paying member of TIGHAR and, of course, you will get your TIGHAR Tracks.  Last year, membership in TIGHAR doubled so we're dealing with unprecedented volume and just to make life interesting, we had a hitch in the mailing that has delayed our ability to get them all out the door.  Last Friday, after the first batch went out, we discovered that we needed a new ink cartridge for the postage machine.  We paid an exorbitant $103 for overnight shipping of a new cartridge but no cartridge arrived.  After much back and forthing with the vendor it turned out that UPS had somehow lost the package. Yesterday they sent another cartridge via FedEx which should arrive today and we'll be able to resume mailing. What do you want to bet the lost UPS shipment will arrive at the same time?  Anyway,  I hope you find the new TIGHAR Tracks worth the wait.  So far, reviews have been glowing - "a tour de force, "best issue ever," and so forth.  I suspect your review will add some balance.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Alfred Hendrickson on March 06, 2013, 09:18:41 AM
Received mine yesterday. Started reading it last night. It is an amazing piece of work. Nice going! It has motiviated my enthusiasm for this project. I will be helping to support the next expedition.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 06, 2013, 09:43:45 AM
Received mine yesterday. Started reading it last night. It is an amazing piece of work. Nice going! It has motiviated my enthusiasm for this project. I will be helping to support the next expedition.

That's what we like to hear!  Thanks Alfred.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Monty Fowler on March 06, 2013, 09:55:48 AM
I paid dues this year, where is my copy of TIGHAR Tracks?

gl

Mr. LaPook, I'm glad we've finally brought you in to the fold! So to speak, that is.  ;D

I was one of the fortunate ones who already has the issue in hand. Damn you Ric for keeping me up wayyyyyy past my bedtime! But on a serious note, there is some solid stuff in here. Stuff that I'm sure the naysayers will have at. Let'em, I say. TIGHAR will be the Last Man Standing.

LTM, whose check is in the mail, with a little extra for beer or whatever,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Chris Johnson on March 06, 2013, 12:39:34 PM
Well its fingers crossed and hoping that international mail and the much maligned Royal Mail deliver safely to my door this edition of TIGHAR Tracks.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 06, 2013, 12:44:09 PM
Well its fingers crossed and hoping that international mail and the much maligned Royal Mail deliver safely to my door this edition of TIGHAR Tracks.

All of the international copies of TIGHAR Tracks are going out via FedEx.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Chris Johnson on March 06, 2013, 12:47:27 PM
Fantastic :) Though i'd be as happy with an emailed .pdf version to save you some $$$$$
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 06, 2013, 12:56:38 PM
Fantastic :) Though i'd be as happy with an emailed .pdf version to save you some $$$$$

FedEx is a TIGHAR sponsor.  We have a free account.  It's not unlimited so we can't use FedEx for everything but using the free account for international shipping is a huge money-saver for us.  Without it we'd have to charge extra for international memberships.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Hilary Christine Olson on March 07, 2013, 06:09:15 AM
Still no Tighar Tracks  Mine must have taken the international route   :'(
Hilary
#2633
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 07, 2013, 07:17:16 AM
Still no Tighar Tracks  Mine must have taken the international route   :'(

Patience Hil.  We've had postage machine "adventures" that have delayed much of the mailing.  With luck, that will all get resolved today. (Aaaargh!)
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Greg Daspit on March 08, 2013, 01:55:05 PM
Trying to understand the 3rd Iteration of the Bevington object in TIGHAR Tracks, I did this overlay/ study of the PHOTOTEK image posted here (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,916.0.html).
I looked at the worm gear in an alternate orientation and added some other possible parts in this study/ interpretation.

Edit: I think the fender is less crumpled than shown in the sketch. I think it may more likely be the smaller front fender part detached from one  tab and rotated 90 degrees on the remaining tab.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Jimmie Tyler on March 12, 2013, 07:13:47 AM
 The new TIGHAR Tracks is impressive!!!! Inspiring, a great read!! Really enjoying it. Thank You!!!!!
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Tim Mellon on March 12, 2013, 02:14:49 PM

Time and Tide
The available evidence suggests that Amelia Earhart landed her Lockheed Electra on a particular section of the reef at Gardner Island (now Nikumaroro) and sent radio distress calls or several days before the aircraft was lost to rising tides and surf – but was that possible?  TIGHAR Researcher Bob Brandenburg’s technical paper explains how we calculated the water levels on that part of the reef at particular times more than three-quarters of a century ago, and how we discovered the remarkable way in which those water levels correlate with the credible post-loss radio signals.

A very impressive and professional study by Bob Brandenburg, in my opinion.

It is interesting to note that the peak high tide increased a bit each day, from 0.43m on the afternoon of the 2nd to over 0.9m on Wednesday morning the 8th of July. The last credible transmission was about 8pm local time that evening. This increasing high tide level, if augmented by heavier than normal swells or some sort of storm surge, could very well be the combination that tipped the balance against holding position on the reef. Only a day later Lambrecht's flight of three saw no sign of an aircraft.

Mr. Brandenburg asserts (pp. 56 and 57) that "tide and surf forced abandonment of the aircraft". My own interpretation, based on underwater videos from both 2010 and 2012, is that the two crewmembers stayed with the aircraft and were swept off the reef with it. If either had left the aircraft in the intervening days, it probably was only to scout the shore briefly at low tide. Since very little in the way of personal property has been found ashore in the years since, I suspect that whatever came ashore was not carried but rather floated free from the airplane wreckage in the weeks after its sinking.

Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Scott C. Mitchell on March 12, 2013, 07:35:17 PM
I am also thoroughly absorbed by the new TIGHAR TRACKS.  What a body of work!  Something I find intriguing is the last chart on the back of the book in the article by Bob Brandenburg on Tides & Credible Signals.  It is interesting that credible transmissions apparently ceased at the start of the time zone of propeller clearance limit, with several hours of prime transmitting time still ahead.  That suggests something drastic happened as a cut-off -- like the aircraft getting swept off the reef, to either float away or tumble down the submerged cliff.  (Granted, there may be other explanations, such as running out of fuel to charge the transmitter.)  After the aircraft was lost, there would be no reason to hang around the sweltering beach.  The castaways might have a shell-shocked mental adjustment, watching their last link to possible rescue slide under the waves, that would impel them start searching the interior of the island in earnest to look for resources for long-term survival.  No wonder they weren't seen by the search aircraft under that overgrowth canopy.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 12, 2013, 07:42:01 PM
The castaways might have a shell-shocked mental adjustment, watching their last link to possible rescue slide under the waves, that would impel them start searching the interior of the island in earnest to look for resources for long-term survival.  No wonder they weren't seen by the search aircraft under that overgrowth canopy.

I increasingly find myself wondering whether Noonan ever made it out of the airplane.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Tim Mellon on March 12, 2013, 08:32:57 PM

I increasingly find myself wondering whether Noonan ever made it out of the airplane.

Remember Betty's understanding of a man seeming semi-delirious and perhaps wounded? (And now Dr. G. Ford agrees.) And the tides rising? And the sharks? And the 150 meter trek to dry land over very slippery, guttered and pocked surfaces? Hungry, thirsty, dead tired? I wonder too.

But then, I think I have seen the other side.

Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Hal Banks on March 13, 2013, 08:24:49 AM
Ric, was it you or Pat who devised this diabolical fund-raising scheme of sending former members a copy of Tighar Tracks?  Well, it worked.  I'm now a paid-up, member-in-good standing.  The preponderance of evidence collected over the years has convinced me that the Tighar theory is the most likely scenario.  I don't need the smoking gun or any idiot arifact, hence my lapse in membership.  Although my wife is concerned I'll sign the deed to the house over to you guys, great research like this needs to continue  :).

Keep up the good work,
Hal Banks
Member #2971
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 13, 2013, 09:12:25 AM
Ric, was it you or Pat who devised this diabolical fund-raising scheme of sending former members a copy of Tighar Tracks?  Well, it worked.  I'm now a paid-up, member-in-good standing.

Thanks Hal.  We just can't bear to lose good people.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Dan Swift on March 13, 2013, 09:41:35 AM
And it had to get to 150-170+ degrees in the cabin of that plane during the day.  That will fry your brain for sure....if it doesn't kill you first. 
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Don Dollinger on March 13, 2013, 11:47:11 AM
Quote
I increasingly find myself wondering whether Noonan ever made it out of the airplane

That was my thinking ever since reading the post loss messages and Betty's notebook.  If Mabel Larremore is to be believed Fred was seriously injured and Amelia also had some injuries.  The delirious man in Betty's notebook could fit Noonan with a head injury.  Amelia herself being injured may not have able to physically help him cross the reef to shore.  Plus the fact that if he is delirious you would'nt think she would want to leave him alone on shore to go to the plane to send messages.  Add possible dehydration (depending on what they had aboard) and it starts looking pretty grim for Fred.  I believe he, as they say "went down with the ship".

LTM,

Don
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Tim Mellon on March 13, 2013, 05:15:57 PM
Thanks Hal.  We just can't bear to lose good people.

No pun intended?
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 13, 2013, 05:27:27 PM
No pun intended?

No pun intended.  I'm unintentionally punny.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Hilary Christine Olson on March 13, 2013, 08:37:59 PM
    Thank You for the reply Ric . I have my copy of the new TIGHAR Tracks it arrived today .I am  now off to read. 
Hilary # 2633                                                                                                                                                                   
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Tim Mellon on March 14, 2013, 10:21:41 AM
 Reviewing the "Nessie" article in the just-released Vol. 28 #1 issue of TIGHAR Tracks, I have discovered a discrepancy worth noting.

On page 38, reference is made to c/n 1052 at the New England Air Museum as being the object of comparison for various components of the Electra landing gear. One of the "items of interest" described in the following paragraph is the "worm gear", a part worthy of its own article later in the issue (the reader is referred to "Part No. 40776" on page 45, yet on page 45 the article is entitled "Part Number 41065". Which is the correct part number for the worm gear?).

Trouble is, c/n 1052 has no worm gear (see attached photo) but simply a fixed strut, because the aircraft is on permanent static display. So my question for Jeff Glickman would be "What aircraft did you use with respect to comparing its worm gear?"
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 14, 2013, 11:42:21 AM
On page 38, reference is made to c/n 1052 at the New England Air Museum as being the object of comparison for various components of the Electra landing gear. One of the "items of interest" described in the following paragraph is the "worm gear", a part worthy of its own article later in the issue (the reader is referred to "Part No. 40776" on page 45, yet on page 45 the article is entitled "Part Number 41065". Which is the correct part number for the worm gear?).

Aaargh!  Thanks Tim.  The correct part number for the worm gear is 41065.  40776 is the fork.

Trouble is, c/n 1052 has no worm gear (see attached photo) but simply a fixed strut, because the aircraft is on permanent static display. So my question for Jeff Glickman would be "What aircraft did you use with respect to comparing its worm gear?"

Jeff has never seen c/n 1052 at the New England Air Museum.  As explained on page 39 of TIGHAR Tracks, he examined the worm gear equipped landing gear of c/n 1011 at the Pima Air Museum in Tucson, AZ. 

I confess that I had not noticed that c/n 1052, as exhibited, does not have its worm gears installed. I do have the attached photo, taken years ago while the plane was being rebuilt, that shows its worm gears lying on the floor along with other dissembled pieces of its gear.  Now I'm wondering where those worm gears are now?  I'd like to find out how much each one weighs.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Greg Daspit on March 14, 2013, 05:00:23 PM
Thank you for posting that picture Ric,
There is a bar on each side of the cylinder in that picture and shown on the drawing on page 43, but these bars do not appear in the Luke Field picture on page 43.
Were the bars a design update on AE’s plane when they repaired it? Or are the bars missing in the Luke Field picture?

The fender drawn on page 44 seems to have the front part of the fender spliced to the rear part. However, from other pictures of AE’s plane, it seems the front part and rear part of the fender are each attached to the fork and are separate pieces.  Were they somehow spliced?

If the possible fender part suggested in the 3rd iteration was bent out on the fork it could explain the dark area in the middle of the Bevington object . The dark spot being the shadow of the fender. The part of the fork seen before it gets dark would make sense too.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 14, 2013, 11:14:13 PM
There is a bar on each side of the cylinder in that picture and shown on the drawing on page 43, but these bars do not appear in the Luke Field picture on page 43.
Were the bars a design update on AE’s plane when they repaired it? Or are the bars missing in the Luke Field picture?

I don't know what bars you're referring to. 
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Tim Mellon on March 15, 2013, 07:48:42 AM
Attached please find a photo of the violin shown to have come from the wreck of the Titanic.

Skeptics might take note that musical instruments can survive for long periods under water.

Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 15, 2013, 08:29:54 AM
Attached please find a photo of the violin shown to have come from the wreck of the Titanic.

Skeptics might take note that musical instruments can survive for long periods under water.

If you dig a bit deeper you'll find that the violin was found in an attic, not in the wreck.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Tim Mellon on March 15, 2013, 08:41:23 AM
Ric, if you dig even deeper  (http://www.mercurynews.com/celebrities/ci_22797585/auction-house-we-found-titanic-violin) you will see that the instrument has been forensically analyzed for imersion in seawater.

 
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Greg Daspit on March 15, 2013, 08:45:20 AM
There is a bar on each side of the cylinder in that picture and shown on the drawing on page 43, but these bars do not appear in the Luke Field picture on page 43.
Were the bars a design update on AE’s plane when they repaired it? Or are the bars missing in the Luke Field picture?

I don't know what bars you're referring to.

There are two rectangular profile bars on each side of oleo cylinder, close to the top, in the picture you posted
I don't know the name of that part to describe it correctly but the installation illustrated on page 43 and the parts in the “gear parts-1052” picture do not look like the part in the Luke Filed accident.
This Luke Field part has a round profile, possibly a round tube, and seems to be off center of the cylinder, not on both sides.
The part in the installation drawing on page 43 and as seen in the photo you posted have a flat rectangular profile bar on each side of the cylinder and they are continuous, they bend around the cylinder so they can be continuous.
It seems like AE’s plane at the Luke Field crash had a different installation than shown on page 43.
At the bottom of the pdf I posted it had two images side by side where you can see the difference in parts
Page 43 has the Luke Field Image and the installation 40650 drawing above it so the difference can be seen there too.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Greg Daspit on March 15, 2013, 09:18:26 AM
Attached please find a photo of the violin shown to have come from the wreck of the Titanic.

Skeptics might take note that musical instruments can survive for long periods under water.

"Hartley's body was recovered by the Mackay–Bennett almost two weeks after the sinking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musicians_of_the_RMS_Titanic)"
2 weeks is not that long and it may have floated, and have been in a case, not under water
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Chris Johnson on March 15, 2013, 10:28:54 AM
Certainly NOT found in the wreck, can't find link but thought to have been found strapped to his body either in its case or in another case.

BTW Tim there is ample evidence of Hard Woods surviving on parts of the Titanic Wreck, just as decking remains on the Bismark wreck.  These are in cold waters at considerable depth compared (we hope) to the electra.

What is interesting is the lack of human remains on these vessels.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Tim Mellon on March 15, 2013, 11:29:12 AM
Definitely immersed in seawater, but I agree, two weeks does not make it comparable to "that certain banjo".

The wooden Swedish ship Wasa was recovered after centuries, and I believe has been restored.

Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Chris Johnson on March 15, 2013, 12:28:35 PM
Now thats an interesting wreck and more special due to the unusual conditions in the Baltic that is particularly good for the preservation of not only wood but also rope and bone.  Again no link (soz) but remember reading about a deep wreck in the baltic (wooden sailing ship) that still had its rigging as well as human remains on deck.

Worth some study if you have time.

Pretty sure the conditions are bad for wood boring sea critters, much like the black sea.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Chris Johnson on March 15, 2013, 01:10:55 PM
Baltic Shipwrecks (http://www.eurotek.uk.com/balticseashipwrecks.htm)

Check out the photo to see what I mean about the conditions in the Baltic

The Ghost Ship (http://webappl.sh.se/p3/ext/content.nsf/aget?openagent&key=the_ghost_ship_1304334822176)

Think this is the wreck I talked about.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Tim Mellon on March 15, 2013, 06:48:17 PM

Check out the photo to see what I mean about the conditions in the Baltic



Amazing photo - looks like the officers' mess with a pot-bellied stove. I think one can still read the clock on the wall between the port-holes.

Thanks, Chris.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Jeff Scott on March 17, 2013, 03:51:42 PM
My copy arrived last week.  It's very nicely done!

Several organizations I belong to offer electronic publications to lower their costs.  Is it possible to request TIGHAR Tracks electronically instead of by mail?
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: John Balderston on March 18, 2013, 11:45:54 AM
Identical to J. Nevill's comment.  Was on travel when the mailing went out - arrived home to find this substantial issue.  Very nice work!  Looking forward to reviewing in detail.  Cheers, John
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 18, 2013, 01:25:58 PM
Several organizations I belong to offer electronic publications to lower their costs.  Is it possible to request TIGHAR Tracks electronically instead of by mail?

Absolutely.  We've made the offer twice in TIGHAR Tracks mailings but, so far, only one member has asked for a PDF instead of paper. We don't put out printed publications very often because the cost is hideous, but TIGHAR members do seem to like a hold-in-your-hand journal once in a while.  Anyone who would just as soon have a PDF can just let me know and we'll note your file.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Dan Swift on March 19, 2013, 06:58:27 AM
ALL my newletters come via email.  If I want to take it with me (hold it in my hand) I can print it.  Don't see why it wouldn't work the same here. 
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Lauren Palmer on March 19, 2013, 07:09:25 AM
Several organizations I belong to offer electronic publications to lower their costs.  Is it possible to request TIGHAR Tracks electronically instead of by mail?

Absolutely.  We've made the offer twice in TIGHAR Tracks mailings but, so far, only one member has asked for a PDF instead of paper. We don't put out printed publications very often because the cost is hideous, but TIGHAR members do seem to like a hold-in-your-hand journal once in a while.  Anyone who would just as soon have a PDF can just let me know and we'll note your file.
I received the journal, and love it!  I also don't want a computer copy - I've received lots of things on the computer which had compatibility problems, and don't want to buy new software/hardware etc updates just to read.  Hard to print out pictures, also, and I am happy to have these color shots!
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 02, 2013, 01:54:00 AM
Definitely immersed in seawater, but I agree, two weeks does not make it comparable to "that certain banjo".

The wooden Swedish ship Wasa was recovered after centuries, and I believe has been restored.

This may be of interest re 'the banjo' Titanic Violin (http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2013/03/exclusive-three-luthiers-declare-titanic-violin-to-be-fake.html)
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on April 13, 2013, 07:25:41 PM
For all of you who are not yet TIGHAR members, the new TIGHAR Tracks is now up on the TIGHAR website (http://tighar.org) as individual, downloadable PDFs for each article.

Also, don't miss the photo caption contest on the TIGHAR Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/TIGHAR/224536440657?ref=ts). 
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Gloria Walker Burger on April 13, 2013, 08:32:33 PM
Got my TIGHAR Tracks and was fully absorbed reading it cover to cover. Great job everyone!!
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Dan Swift on April 26, 2013, 08:37:08 AM
Love the Tighar Tracks! 
Quick question and if this has been asked and answered before....my apologies. 
The triangulation that Jeff Glickman did on the "Nessie" photo, was a similar process done to the "Dash Dot" photos?   
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on April 26, 2013, 08:55:09 AM
The triangulation that Jeff Glickman did on the "Nessie" photo, was a similar process done to the "Dash Dot" photos?   

Good catch.  No, and Jeff has recently been after me to get a hi-res scan of that photo.  The original print is in a collection in New Zealand. I just haven't gotten around to asking them.  Mea culpa.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Dan Swift on April 26, 2013, 09:09:01 AM
It would be interesting to pinpoint those objects.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on April 26, 2013, 09:56:40 AM
It would be interesting to pinpoint those objects.

Yes it would.  Thanks for the prod.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: richie conroy on April 26, 2013, 04:53:44 PM
Hey Ric

Maybe you could get a re scan of the following image, having been able to use the original image from Tighar Tracks there seem's to be more to your shadow anomaly, i have just put these together to show what i mean

worth a closer look in my opinion

Thanks Richie
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on April 26, 2013, 07:54:35 PM
Maybe you could get a re scan of the following image, having been able to use the original image from Tighar Tracks there seem's to be more to your shadow anomaly, i have just put these together to show what i mean

worth a closer look in my opinion

The ship gives us a way to scale the anomaly.  That ship is over 500 feet long and it's farther away from the camera than the anomaly.  The anomaly is far too big to the airplane.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Al Leonard on April 27, 2013, 08:11:45 AM
Ric,

Regardless of their size, I'm wondering if you think that the two anomalies Richie has marked are real objects. If 'yes' I'm wondering where these anomalies are relative to the debris field mapped on the last Tighar cruise, and also relative to the underwater anomaly Riche noted a few weeks ago. Perhaps they are just giant chunks of coral thrown up on the reef, something which Tighar has seen before? Perhaps these items are worth a look by Mr. Glickman...
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Greg Daspit on April 28, 2013, 01:07:11 PM
The dash dot anomaly was discussed in a previous thread (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,126.msg509.html#msg509) with links to the full un-cropped picture  in the Hiding in Plain Sight bulletin (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/57_Bevingtonphoto/57_HidinginSight.htm).
I think the dash dot as seen in the un-cropped Bevington photo is roughly between the NC and the shore, and maybe even a little south of the Norwich City and is likely NC debris as discussed in the previous thread. The anomaly in the aerial photo Richie posted is a different anomaly, between Nessie and the NC. The picture taken from inside the Norwich City, through the hole, is probably another anomaly, and may not be an object, IMHO

Edit
For more see bullitens 32, 56 and 57 linked in the archived research bulletins (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/ArchivedBulletins.html)
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Greg Daspit on April 28, 2013, 11:59:40 PM
Regarding the Dash Dot, Bulletin 17 (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/17_Forensicprelim.html) has some preliminary analysis. It also seems to show the Bevington object in 1999? (Not totally hidden for 18 years due to cropping)
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 13, 2013, 02:30:31 AM
Role on Wednesday, FedEx are delivering my copy to work (sorry Margaret I know i'm not supposed to do this but its the only way I can get it)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Laura Gridley on May 13, 2013, 06:49:48 PM
Got my copy a few weeks ago, read it right away.  Excellent!  Thank you.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 15, 2013, 11:37:59 AM
Finally arrived today, very very nice and to say it travelled across the Atlantic and then half way around the UK it smells like only new magazine smell :)

Note to self email TIGHAR central to update my address  :-[
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Dan Swift on June 14, 2013, 01:27:13 PM
Ric,
Anything new on exacting the position of the "Dash - Dot" and comparing it to "Nessie"? 
Again, in the way Jeff did for Nessie. 
I am interested in this now even more with the discovery of Richie's anomaly. 
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on June 14, 2013, 02:11:45 PM
Anything new on exacting the position of the "Dash - Dot" and comparing it to "Nessie"? 

We recently got a 1200 dpi scan of that photo from the NZ Air Force Museum.  Jeff looked at it and confirmed that the "dash-dot" is not airplane wreckage and there's no sign of Nessie in that photo. Dead end - but at least we know.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: matt john barth on June 15, 2013, 10:47:45 AM
Just wanted to say, the new Tighar Tracks edition was incredible. All of the stories were written nicely. There was not one boring section. My hat off to the man who did the Time and Tide study. That was an incredible project. I don't think anyone has pointed this out, but when you look at the tide study you'll see that on July 8th the water rose so high that the radio transmitter would have been submerged in water, which would render the plane useless and support the theory that the plane was swept of the beach. I don't know what type of evidence you would call this, would it be circumstantial? I'll just say again that was a mind blowing study. I printed the new tighar tracks out in color and show people who are interested some of your work. No one can find anything negative to say about that tide study. In fact most are speechless.

I didn't know where to post this so I chose here. Please move it if you want.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Dan Swift on June 17, 2013, 09:36:41 AM
Ric,
That is disappointing for a couple of reasons:  What is it then?  If from the NC, then the theory about the wreckage all being 'down stream' could be wrong.  Those items are 'up stream'.  If the Lectra was beaten up bad enough to open it's guts, maybe one or two of the tanks came out.  They would try to float....somewhat....and they would not apear as A/C wreckage either. 
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on June 17, 2013, 10:17:43 AM
That is disappointing for a couple of reasons:  What is it then?  If from the NC, then the theory about the wreckage all being 'down stream' could be wrong.  Those items are 'up stream'.

Disappointing???  How so? The anomaly is way too far north to be NC wreckage.  That's very, very good. We know where the stern of NC went.  We found it at about 1,000 ft depth  directly behind the shipwreck.  It's not surprising that tons of ship structure tumbling down the reef slope were apparently not effected by the current. 
The anomaly is several hundred meters "upstream" and shallower (600 ft). 

  If the Lectra was beaten up bad enough to open it's guts, maybe one or two of the tanks came out.  They would try to float....somewhat....and they would not apear as A/C wreckage either.

True. I fully expect that the underside of the aircraft was ripped open when the plane was pushed along the reef surface on it's belly before going over the edge.  That why it sank so fast.  The fuel drains for the fuselage tanks were on the belly.  If they're ripped open the tanks, which were vented on the top, will quickly fill.

Also, think about the airplane parts found by TIGHAR or said to have been seen by PBY pilot John Mims in the village.  Sheet aluminum, control cables, heat shields that (we theorize) were once nailed to the wooden floor, plexiglas from a cabin window - if that stuff is from the Electra, the fuselage was breached before the airplane sank into the depths.  The fuselage of that airplane was not an empty shell with some fuel tanks.  It was packed with cables, wires, pipes, conduit, gear motor, flap motor, actuating tubes, spare parts, tools, Fred's navigation station, etc. A sinking fuselage with it's belly ripped out would likely be trailing its intestines like a whale gutted by sharks.  None of the guts, including crushed fuel tanks, would necessarily look like airplane wreckage.  They might just show up as a trail of small targets strung out behind the fuselage with only the bigger chunks throwing a low shadow.

Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Dan Swift on June 17, 2013, 10:28:48 AM
Not the anomaly.  "Disappointing" that the Dash and Dot have been 'identified' as non aircraft.  My point, obviously poorly made, is that they are in the right direction to have come from the Lectra....not from the NC.  Is there any other source of wreckage but those two?  If not, then they came from the NC....and that, to me, doesn't seem likely. 
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Ric Gillespie on June 17, 2013, 10:38:48 AM
Not the anomaly.  "Disappointing" that the Dash and Dot have been 'identified' as non aircraft.  My point, obviously poorly made, is that they are in the right direction to have come from the Lectra....not from the NC.  Is there any other source of wreckage but those two?  If not, then they came from the NC....and that, to me, doesn't seem likely.

It's hard to say how far they are from the ship.  If they were anything but easily explainable wreckage (i.e. ship debris or something the Kiwis left there themselves) it seems like someone would have noticed.
Title: Re: New TIGHAR Tracks
Post by: Dan Swift on June 17, 2013, 12:52:32 PM
Well, no one "noticed" Nessie for 70 years.  It just seems to me to be something(s) where there shouldn't be something.   Again, that is why I was interested in exactly where they were.  UNFORTUNATELY, another 'issue' has to take precedence over the investigation for a while.