TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Ric Gillespie on March 30, 2016, 12:36:11 PM
-
Chapter Two of Finding Amelia - The True Stroy of the Earhart Electra is titled:
"The tree upon which costly airplanes grow.” May 1935 – February 1936
It deals with how Earhart selected and acquired an airplane to fly around the world. We all know the story - right?
In the first chapter of the book that would become Last Flight, Earhart wrote that her need/desire for an Electra first occurred to her while flying over the Gulf of Mexico en route from Mexico City to Newark, NJ on May 8, 1935.
"So on that sunny morning out of sight of land, I promised my lovely red Vega I'd fly her across no more water. And I promised myself that any further over-ocean flying would be attempted in a plane with more than one motor, capable of keeping aloft with a single engine. Just in case.
Which, in a way, was for me the beginning of of the world flight project. Where to find the tree on which costly airplanes grow, I did not know. But I did know the kind I wanted - an Electra Lockheed, big brother to my Vegas, with, of course, Wasp engines.
Such is the trusting simplicity of a pilot's mind, it seemed ordained that somehow the dream would materialize. Once the prize was in hand, obviously there was one flight which I most wanted to attempt - a circumnavigation of the globe as near its waistline as could be."
In the fourth chapter she explained how the dream materialized.
"One day last summer President Edward C. Elliott of Purdue asked my husband what most interested me beyond immediate academic matters. ... So he divulged my suppressed pilot's yearning for a bigger and better airplane. Not only to go to far places further and faster and more safely, but essentially for pioneering in aviation education and technical experimentation.
So, in due time, I came into possession of my two-motor Lockheed Electra. ....I had intended to undertake a year;s research with my plane and thereafter plan some interesting flight. But circumstances made it appear wiser to postpone the research and attempt the flight first."
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Earhart wrote "it seemed ordained that somehow the dream would materialize" after the dream had materialized, but in May 1935 there was no hint that it would. She seems to have assumed her long-distance stunt flying days were over. After the Mexican flight she had the Vega converted to passenger configuration for use in a charter and flight school business she was starting in partnership with Paul Mantz.
Elliott's query to Putnam about Amelia's plans "beyond academics" turned out to be a totally unanticipated turning point in AE's life. How and why it came about is a fascinating story. One key source is Putnam's now-rare 1939 biography of Amelia "Soaring Wings." We've ordered a copy ($50). Anybody care to sponsor that?
I'm especially curious to figure out what "circumstances" made it appear wiser to do the world flight before making research flights with the airplane. There's a lot of story here that hasn't been told.
-
I will sponsor the book. Do I send a donation via the TIGHAR Store?
LTM (who has lots of books),
Karen Hoy 2610ER
-
I will sponsor the book. Do I send a donation via the TIGHAR Store?
Thanks Karen. Just make a Literary Guild donation via the Store. I'll know what it's for. Much appreciated.
-
Q.E.D.
well done Ms. Karen !
-
Way to go Karen
AE seems to have known by April 1936 that she was going to go for the world flight sooner rather than later, she had already requested a leave from Purdue at that point.
http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/epurdue/id/328/rec/162
-
AE seems to have known by April 1936 that she was going to go for the world flight sooner rather than later, she had already requested a leave from Purdue at that point.
Not necessarily. Note that the letter makes reference to aeronautical research but not a world flight. A world flight may have been seen as a possibility from the very beginning. Attached is a transcription (for ease of reading) of the document on the Purdue website at http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/epurdue/id/505/rec/21. It is unsigned and undated. Purdue believes it to have been written by Putnam to Elliott "circa 1936." They're probably right but Purdue captions have been known to be wrong. I suspect it dates from the autumn of 1935 and is part of Putnam's reply to Elliott's request for information about Amelia's plans "beyond academics." I'm hoping that Soaring Wings will confirm that. As you can see, Putnams's pitch (if that's what it is) was wildly optimistic and quite different from the way things turned out.
-
Think about this for a second:
What if Elliott had not asked Putnam about Earhart's plans? Putnam would not have had the opportunity to pitch the idea of Purdue buying AE an airplane. With no new airplane would Earhart have concentrated on making a success of the charter/flying school business with Mantz? What would the rest of her career have been like? How would we remember her today?
That's why understanding Elliott's motivation is so important.
-
<....>, Earhart wrote that her need/desire for an Electra first occurred to her while flying over the Gulf of Mexico en route from Mexico City to Newark, NJ on May 8, 1935.
"So on that sunny morning out of sight of land, I promised my lovely red Vega I'd fly her across no more water. And I promised myself that any further over-ocean flying would be attempted in a plane with more than one motor, capable of keeping aloft with a single engine. Just in case.<....>
Of course all of that took place eight years before I was born, but I've often wondered about that Electra's capabilities when flown on one engine.
I know that historically the first multi-engine airliners had three motors so they could continue to maintain altitude if one of the engines quit.
Although equipped with "constant-speed" variable pitch propellers, the Electra at that time did not feature feathering propellers. (Turning the prop blades to produce minimum drag when stopped.) And this greatly limits performance when trying to perform on a single engine.
http://avstop.com/ac/flighttrainghandbook/propellerfeathering.html (http://avstop.com/ac/flighttrainghandbook/propellerfeathering.html)
Of course at the excessive take-off weights involved by carrying all that long-range fuel load, I would expect that Electra "....capable of keeping aloft with a single engine." would not have been available for at least the first half of her long-range flights. Don't see where they had any capability for rapid fuel dump. I realize that at the time of their loss, their weight was down to a manageable level.
According to the Smithsonian:
http://www.sil.si.edu/smithsoniancontributions/AnnalsofFlight/pdf_lo/SAOF-0001.4.pdf (http://www.sil.si.edu/smithsoniancontributions/AnnalsofFlight/pdf_lo/SAOF-0001.4.pdf)
Page 77, "Feathering" did not arrive until 1938!
Pilot training for a 'multi-engine' rating primarily involves flying it on one engine, was this true during Amelia's Electra checkout. I am aware that you can reach a minimum drag (with an un-powered engine and non-feathering propeller) by first slowing airspeed to a point that the 'dead' propeller stops 'windmilling'. Doing this in a multi-engine aircraft would put you at great risk of a complete loss of control (VMC Roll).
I would be interested to know how much you know and can include dealing with training procedures of the day and Amelia's 'checkout'. We know of her involvement with the great Paul Mantz and his frustration with Amelia's 'learning motivation' in relation to Navigation and proper utilization of her Radio equipment, did he ever mention anything about her basic 'emergency' aircraft handling training and skill.
I know that one of the big selling points for the early Douglas multi-engine airliner, was its supposed capability of continuing on a single engine, this must have also been a factor for the even earlier Boeing and Lockheed versions.
Difficult to imagine that 'single-engine' training and practice would not have been an important factor for those early pilots.
-
Think about this for a second:
What if Elliott had not asked Putnam about Earhart's plans? Putnam would not have had the opportunity to pitch the idea of Purdue buying AE an airplane. With no new airplane would Earhart have concentrated on making a success of the charter/flying school business with Mantz? What would the rest of her career have been like? How would we remember her today?
That's why understanding Elliott's motivation is so important.
Would love to have the time and access to explore this collection;
http://www4.lib.purdue.edu/archon/index.php?p=collections/findingaid&id=26&q=&rootcontentid=2168#id2168
-
There is a biography of Elliot available
http://www.amazon.com/Edward-Charles-Elliott-educator-Kleiser/dp/0911198199
-
Although equipped with "constant-speed" variable pitch propellers, the Electra at that time did not feature feathering propellers. (Turning the prop blades to produce minimum drag when stopped.) And this greatly limits performance when trying to perform on a single engine.
Excellent point Art. Today, a multi-engine airplane without full-feathering props would be unthinkable.
Of course at the excessive take-off weights involved by carrying all that long-range fuel load, I would expect that Electra "....capable of keeping aloft with a single engine." would not have been available for at least the first half of her long-range flights. Don't see where they had any capability for rapid fuel dump. I realize that at the time of their loss, their weight was down to a manageable level.
I believe it did have emergency fuel dump capability. I'll try to find documentation. But you're right. At the weights involved in Earhart's long-distance flying and without full-feathering props, for most of the trip a second engine only doubles the risk of engine failure. Most of Earhart's contemporary long-distance fliers chose single-engine aircraft. Dick Merrill, for example, chose a single engine Vultee V-1A for his September 1936 round-trip transatlantic flight. In May of 1937 he did it again; this time in a Lockheed 10E Special like Earhart's without full-feathering props. By the time Howard Hughes flew a Lockheed 14 Super Electra around the world in 1938, his ship was equipped with full-feathering Hamilton-Standard Hydromatic props.
Pilot training for a 'multi-engine' rating primarily involves flying it on one engine, was this true during Amelia's Electra checkout. I am aware that you can reach a minimum drag (with an un-powered engine and non-feathering propeller) by first slowing airspeed to a point that the 'dead' propeller stops 'windmilling'. Doing this in a multi-engine aircraft would put you at great risk of a complete loss of control (VMC Roll).
Single-engine operations in a non-feathering twin is a hairy proposition. Attached are the published procedures for the Model 10 written for a non-U.S. operator.
I would be interested to know how much you know and can include dealing with training procedures of the day and Amelia's 'checkout'. We know of her involvement with the great Paul Mantz and his frustration with Amelia's 'learning motivation' in relation to Navigation and proper utilization of her Radio equipment, did he ever mention anything about her basic 'emergency' aircraft handling training and skill.
Unfortunately, no. We have virtually no information about how much and what kind of transition training Earhart received.
-
One thing I find odd is that many of the early communications between GP and Purdue mention the idea of the world flight starting and ending at Purdue Airport. It's easy to imagine the newsreel footage of AE shaking Elliot's hand and then flying off , it would have put Purdue on every movie screen in the country and AE could then have just flown to Oakland, picked up Manning and Noonan started her flight to Hawaii as she did on the first attempt.
Why did that never happen? Did Purdue distance itself from AE (as with the Purdue colours being removed from the Electra) because they were afraid of negative publicity if something went wrong.
-
Did Purdue distance itself from AE (as with the Purdue colours being removed from the Electra) because they were afraid of negative publicity if something went wrong.
I share your curiosity. I'm not aware of any backing-away on Purdue's part but it is true that, once the plane was delivered, the whole operation seemed to drift further and further away from the original concept.
-
I believe it did have emergency fuel dump capability.
Not documentation, but a report:
"Pacific Storm Again Delays Miss Earhart's World Flight" Oakland CA 3/15/37 (published in 3/16/37 AP newspaper affiliates) - "Mantz declared that in the event of difficulty more than half way to any over-water stop, surplus gasoline can be dumped and the plane can continue on one motor. If trouble develops before the halfway point, a return will be made to the starting field, he said."
Dan Brown, #2408
-
"Pacific Storm Again Delays Miss Earhart's World Flight" Oakland CA 3/15/37 (published in 3/16/37 AP newspaper affiliates) - "Mantz declared that in the event of difficulty more than half way to any over-water stop, surplus gasoline can be dumped and the plane can continue on one motor. If trouble develops before the halfway point, a return will be made to the starting field, he said."
Whew! I wonder about that. I have a hunch that if you ran the numbers you'd find that Mantz was being optimistic.
-
Single-engine operations in a non-feathering twin is a hairy proposition. Attached are the published procedures for the Model 10 written for a non-U.S. operator.
After reading those procedures, I think hairy is an understatement. Which makes me wonder why Mantz, said what he said, knowing how little he thought of Amelia's abilities.
LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC
-
After reading those procedures, I think hairy is an understatement. Which makes me wonder why Mantz, said what he said, knowing how little he thought of Amelia's abilities.
By 3/15 Mantz knew he would be in the right seat for the flight to Honolulu. Amelia's abilities had nothing to do with it.
-
For much of her career AE maintained a killer speaking engagement schedule, presumably to help pay the bills. I wonder if we can find out how much she charged? It's not the sort of information that is normally is covered in a newspaper story.
By the summer of 1935 she seems to have been trying to get out of the stunt flying business and transition to a less brutal life style. She had the Vega returned to passenger configuration for use in a flight school and charter business partnership with Mantz and accepted the job at Purdue - $2,000/year for some part time non-aeronautical consulting.
-
This book on page 139 states ....it was common knowledge that Amelia was making some $500.00 per week for promotions/ speaking engagements; this in 1928....I believe I read somewhere that in the mid 30's her speaking fees were about 300.00 per session, and will try to find that article again to see if my memory is correct.
https://books.google.com/books?id=IDquAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA133&lpg=PA133&dq=amelia+earhart+lecture+fees&source=bl&ots=C2W2LglD5X&sig=AxhqsMZdZYsg9sDbo5TK3emVEG8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxisChuezLAhUjkIMKHbk-DiEQ6AEIVzAI#v=onepage&q=amelia%20earhart%20lecture%20fees&f=false
Attachment below shows a ticket from early 1936 ...1.00. Ticket availability??? this is numbered 665.
-
Ok , my memory is still pretty good,....here is a link to a book with some information regarding her speaking fees;
$ 250.00-$300.00 per lecture
https://books.google.com/books?id=_2sPCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=amelia+earhart+money&source=bl&ots=VLQV_KNOhj&sig=-wH4pzw2O7wahIrSlo1wZpOuodE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2ubWGxezLAhWD7SYKHf53DKc4FBDoAQgeMAE#v=onepage&q=amelia%20earhart%20money&f=false
-
I wonder what is the primary source for that dollar figure?
-
I wonder what is the primary source for that dollar figure?
The book is Amelia Lost by Candace Fleming (2011). She cites Putnam's book Soaring Wings for her section on "Earhart Enterprises." Our copy of Soaring Wings should arrive in a few days (courtesy of Karen Hoy).
Candy Fleming is a good researcher. I worked closely with her while she was writing the book and she gives me and TIGHAR a very nice mention in her Acknowledgements. If Soaring Wings does not include documentation of AE's speaking fees I can write to Candy and ask her to dig out where that information came from.
-
According to two inflation-adjusted currency calculators, a $300 speaking fee in 1928 would be equivalent to about $1,400 today.
Scott
3292R
-
According to two inflation-adjusted currency calculators, a $300 speaking fee in 1928 would be equivalent to about $1,400 today.
Fleming put the figure at $3,500 but she was using 1935. I wonder if the Great Depression is the factor that makes the 1935 equivalent so much higher.
-
With success comes an increase in compensation for they who lecture to those wanting to see and hear....This book gives a post flight speaking fee of some 500.00 per session, and George had plenty of engagments lined up.
https://books.google.com/books?id=xNuGWUdPvcYC&pg=PA204&lpg=PA204&dq=putnam+and+earhart+lecture+tour+outlined+in+1937&source=bl&ots=JvnvERHzp3&sig=oMRz0r0MRNWV7YutUW5qV49MXGg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_pbj8pe7LAhWmg4MKHck8Ah4Q6AEIODAF#v=onepage&q=putnam%20and%20earhart%20lecture%20tour%20outlined%20in%201937&f=false
Pre flight There were some 10,000 covers sold for a dollar each;
https://books.google.com/books?id=P414YwFg_nwC&pg=PT47&lpg=PT47&dq=putnam+and+earhart+lecture+tour+outlined+in+1937&source=bl&ots=-bpdf2kCl2&sig=cv2ajBAXVPKXctxsOU9ZyUvMbUY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_pbj8pe7LAhWmg4MKHck8Ah4Q6AEILzAD#v=onepage&q=putnam%20and%20earhart%20lecture%20tour%20outlined%20in%201937&f=false
GP certainly was a promoter.
-
I'm having trouble finding documentation that pins down the dates for some crucial events in 1935.
May 18, 1935
Purdue President Elliot offers Earhart a position as a "visiting faculty member" for $2,000/year. [East to the Dawn, Butler, page 309]
Butler quotes part of the letter and cites "Frueling, Purdue Alumnus, Dec. 1975." It would be good to have the entire letter.
At some point AE accepts the offer but I can't find a reference or a date.
Her first official day at Purdue wasn't until November 7, 1935 (Butler, page 316, but no citation)
At some time after she went to work (so apparently after November 7), Elliot writes to Putnam asking what plans Amelia has "beyond academic matters." (Butler, page 317)
Butler quotes no other part of the letter and includes no citation. This is the letter that opened the door for Putnam to propose that Purdue buy Amelia an airplane. If Elliot had not written that letter we would not be having this conversation. Gotta find that letter.
The Purdue archives include the undated, unsigned (somewhat crazy) "Amelia Earhart Project" document I posted earlier. It appears to have been part of Putnam's response to Elliot's "beyond academic matters" letter but it would be nice to be sure.
The deal for the Purdue Research Foundation to buy AE a "flying laboratory" was agreed to at a dinner at Elliott's house "in the fall of 1935" (Butler, page 318 no citation; Long, page 54, no citation: Rich, page 220, no citation: etc.) What make and model of airplane to purchase had apparently not yet been decided. When did that dinner occur?
-
The deal for the Purdue Research Foundation to buy AE a "flying laboratory" was agreed to at a dinner at Elliott's house "in the fall of 1935" (Butler, page 318 no citation; Long, page 54, no citation: Rich, page 220, no citation: etc.) What make and model of airplane to purchase had apparently not yet been decided. When did that dinner occur?
Have any of our TIGHARS looked at the Purdue archives for Edward C. Elliott (http://www4.lib.purdue.edu/archon/?p=collections/controlcard&id=26)?
I would think that the odds are good that the answer is in them somewhere.
She was at Purdue on November 7, 1935 (http://e-archives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/epurdue/id/719/rec/4). Planning for a "two-day conference on aeronautics on Thursday and Friday, November 14th and 15th."
She and the Prez were photographed looking at a globe (http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/epurdue/id/375/rec/13) on November 22, 1935.
She was scheduled to be at Purdue ("goes to you") (http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/epurdue/id/212/rec/83) in November, 1935.
Elliott had dinner with the Putnams at the Lotos Club on December 12, 1935 (http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/epurdue/id/227/rec/87).
Putnam to Elliott, (http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/epurdue/id/226/rec/94) transmitting the invitation:"Letter from George Palmer Putnam to Edward Elliott concerning dinner at the Lotos Club and possible cooperation with Dr. [Gilbert] Grosvenor and John Oliver LaGorce of the National Geographic on the Purdue Earhart flight project, December 9, 1935."
-
"Our Amelia Earhart Putnam is now woman's career advisor to the coeds of Purdue. Now, Amelia don't make high flyers out of the youngsters." (Dallas Morning News, June 10, 1935, Section 2 page 2.
On Sunday October 13, 1935 the Indianapolis Star said on page 54 that Earhart would lecture the following Saturday (October 19) at the Indianapolis Town Hall meeting. President Elliott would introduce her and sit at the speaker's table.
-
A search found the following at the Indiana State government website:
www.in.gov/history/files/aviationinindiana.pdf (http://www.in.gov/history/files/aviationinindiana.pdf)
www.in.gov/icw/files/2015-03-21_Amelia_Earhart.pdf (http://www.in.gov/icw/files/2015-03-21_Amelia_Earhart.pdf)
They also cite the December 1975 Purdue Alumnus magazine. I would think that one could come up with a copy of that Alumnus magazine somewhere, though the Purdue e-archives don't appear to have them.
I went to Purdue, but don't live in Indiana any more. Maybe a local TIGHAR member could go visit the library?
Joy
-
Soaring Wings has arrived (thanks again Karen) and once again we're seeing the value of the meticulous timeline we've been constructing.
President Elliot writes to George Putnam asking what plans Amelia has "beyond academic matters." (Butler, page 317) Butler quotes no other part of the letter and includes no citation but she credits Putnam's reaction to it to Soaring Wings page 272.
Here the relevant passage from Soaring Wings:
"Since the autumn of 1935 she had been pursuing the pleasant association with Purdue University. In the summer of 1936 President Elliot of Purdue asked me what I thought there was in the field of research and education that interested AE most beyond academic matters. I told him she was hankering for a bigger and better plane, not only one in which she could go far places farther and faster and more safely, but to use as a laboratory for research in aviation education and for technical experimentation.
And so in April, 1936, after canvassing the possibilities and securing the co-operation of friends of Purdue, Dr. Elliott was able to announce that a fund of $50,000 had been subscribed, to be known as the Amelia Earhart Fund for Aeronautical Research, and that a Lockheed Electra would be purchased and tuned over to her."
Let's deconstruct what Putnam wrote.
"Since the autumn of 1935 she had been pursuing the pleasant association with Purdue University."
Elliott made the offer of a consulting position on May 18, 1935. Thanks to the Dallas Morning News article found by Karen Hoy, we know that by June 10, 1935 the word was out that AE had accepted the offer. So Amelia's association with Purdue dates from June, not the autumn, of 1935. However, she didn't actually start at Purdue until November 7, 1935 so perhaps that is what Putnam is referring to.
"In the summer of 1936 President Elliot of Purdue asked me what I thought there was in the field of research and education that interested AE most beyond academic matters."
This has to be a typo. By the summer of 1936 the Electra was already built and delivered. Did Putnam mean to say the summer of 1935?
"I told him she was hankering for a bigger and better plane, not only one in which she could go far places farther and faster and more safely, but to use as a laboratory for research in aviation education and for technical experimentation."
Putnam seems to be referring to the undated document in the Purdue collection titled "Amelia Earhart Project" (facsimile transcript attached). There are clues in the document that may help us date it.
"The wide-spread attention given Amelia Earhart’s association with Purdue has identified her with the University." So this was written long enough after the initial agreement that there has been wide-spread attention given Amelia Earhart’s association with Purdue.
"The plane in which Miss Earhart flew the Atlantic solo is now on permanent exhibition at the Franklin Institute, Philadelphia." When did the Atlantic Vega go on display at the Franklin Institute?
"The plane used on her Pacific, Mexican, and other records flights, has been transformed into a passenger carrier."
In a letter to her mother on July 28, 1935 AE mentioned that her ship was "still undergoing repairs, that is repainting and reupholstering and when it is finished i will put it with Paul's fleet for charter." So apparently Putnam's reply dates from some time after July 28.
Back to Soaring Wings.
"And so in April, 1936, after canvassing the possibilities and securing the co-operation of friends of Purdue, Dr. Elliott was able to announce that a fund of $50,000 had been subscribed, to be known as the Amelia Earhart Fund for Aeronautical Research, and that a Lockheed Electra would be purchased and tuned over to her."
It's true that the announcement was made in April 1936 but the Electra was ordered on March 20 and the agreement that Purdue would buy an airplane for AE was done at a dinner which seems to have happened in November 1935 while AE was at Purdue.(Butler, page 318)
So we're still left with the questions:
When did Elliott write the fateful "beyond academic matters" letter?
When did Putnam reply with the Amelia Earhart Project" proposal?
-
She and the Prez were photographed looking at a globe (http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/epurdue/id/375/rec/13) on November 22, 1935.
And why would they be photographed looking at a globe??? Had the deal for Purdue to buy AE an airplane been made by November 22? Was the possibility of a world flight already in the works?
Elliott had dinner with the Putnams at the Lotos Club on December 12, 1935 (http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/epurdue/id/227/rec/87).
Putnam to Elliott, (http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/epurdue/id/226/rec/94) transmitting the invitation:"Letter from George Palmer Putnam to Edward Elliott concerning dinner at the Lotos Club and possible cooperation with Dr. [Gilbert] Grosvenor and John Oliver LaGorce of the National Geographic on the Purdue Earhart flight project, December 9, 1935."
It seems pretty clear that the game was afoot by early December.
-
"The plane in which Miss Earhart flew the Atlantic solo is now on permanent exhibition at the Franklin Institute, Philadelphia." When did the Atlantic Vega go on display at the Franklin Institute?"
A partial answer to this question is found from the Smithsonian, where the Vega now resides: "In June 1933, Earhart sold this Vega to Philadelphia’s Franklin Institute where it remained until transferred to the Smithsonian in 1966."
See: http://newsdesk.si.edu/snapshot/amelia-earhart-s-lockheed-vega-5b (http://newsdesk.si.edu/snapshot/amelia-earhart-s-lockheed-vega-5b)
Apparently, it was on display by December 1933, if the date on this photograph is correct:
http://corescholar.libraries.wright.edu/special_ms1_photographs/1822/ (http://corescholar.libraries.wright.edu/special_ms1_photographs/1822/)
I hope this helps with the timeline, as that would mean I finally contributed a little something! :)
-
Good work! So by 1935 the Atlantic Vega being retired and on display was old news but it helped make Putnam's point that AE needed a new airplane.
-
Looking at the Smithsonian site (http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?object=nasm_A19670093000) I found this comment.
"Earhart sold her 5B Vega to Philadelphia's Franklin Institute in 1933 after purchasing a new Lockheed 5C Vega. The Smithsonian acquired it in 1966."
I wonder where the 5C ended up.
-
I wonder where the 5C ended up.
Mantz bought it. As I recall it was eventually wrecked.
Earhart owned five Vegas and borrowed a few others. I pieced together the list below a few years ago. Some of the dates may be off.
Lockheed Vega 1 c/n 10 NC6911
Purchased July 1929 - Sold August 1929
5-place cabin monoplane
manufactured 1928
length - 27 feet, 6 inches
wingspan - 41 feet
empty weight - 1,650 lbs
engine - Wright Whirlwind J5A 225hp nine cylinder radial
max speed 135 mph
landing speed 50 mph
Accomplishments:
August 1929 - flight from New York to California with USAAC Lt. Orville Stephens
Accidents:
none
Lockheed Vega 1 c/n 36 NC31E
Purchased August 1929 - Sold March 1930
5-place cabin monoplane
manufactured 1929
length - 27 feet, 6 inches
wingspan - 41 feet
empty weight - 1,650 lbs
engine - Wright Whirlwind J5A 225 hp nine cylinder radial
max speed 135 mph
landing speed 50 mph
Accomplishments:
August 1929 - Third place, Women’s Air Derby from Santa Monica, CA to Cleveland, OH
November 1929 - Women’s speed record of 184.17 mph in borrowed Vega 5A Executive NC538M.
Accidents:
August 19, 1929 -landing accident Yuma AZ. No injuries, minor damage.
Lockheed Vega 5B c/n 22 NC7952
Purchased March 1930 - Sold June 1933
5-place cabin monoplane
manufactured 1928
length - 27 feet, 6 inches
wingspan - 41 feet
empty weight - 2,492 lbs
engine - Pratt & Whitney Wasp 425 hp nine cylinder radial
engine replaced 1932 - Pratt & Whitney Wasp C 450 hp
max speed 165 mph
landing speed 65 mph
Accomplishments:
June 1930 - three speed records for women in various load categories in borrowed Vega DL-1 NC497H.
May 1932 - solo transatlantic flight Newfoundland to Ireland
August 1932 - LA to Newark nonstop women’s speed record.
July 1933 - LA to Newark women’s speed record
Accidents:
September 30, 1930 - landing accident at NAS Norfolk, VA. Minor injuries, severe damage to aircraft.
Lockheed Vega Special 5C c/n 171 NR965Y
Purchased March 1933 - Sold June 1935
5-place cabin monoplane
manufactured 1931
length - 27 feet, 6 inches
wingspan - 41 feet
empty weight - unk.
engine - Pratt & Whitney Wasp C 450 hp
max speed (est.) 180 mph
landing speed 65 mph
Accomplishments:
January 1935 - first nonstop flight Hawaii to California
April 1935 - Burbank, CA to Mexico City
May 1935- first nonstop Mexico City to Newark, NJ
Accidents:
none
-
In the book's table of contents I described the second chapter as:
Chapter Two - “The tree on which costly airplanes grow”
May 1935 – February 1936
How Earhart selected and acquired an airplane to fly around the world.
Guess what - Earhart didn't select it. For the past week I've been digging into the volumes of correspondence on the Purdue website trying to piece together exactly how that all went down. It's not easy because many of the letters are scans of fuzzy carbon copies and the chronology is all over the place, but once you have all the pertinent documents in the proper order the story comes together and - surprise, surprise - it's not at all like Amelia described in Last Flight or the way it is presented in the various biographies. There's a story here that has never been told. Purdue doesn't have everything and I still need to get into the Mantz correspondence, but I'm hoping to have a draft of Chapter Two ready to publish in TIGHAR Tracks in May.
-
It gets curiouser and curiouser. Part of the traditional Earhart story is that the university's support was pledged during a dinner party at the home of Purdue president Edward Elliott in the autumn of 1935 at which Amelia spoke of her desire to do scientific research. I'm beginning to suspect that the story is apochryphal.
Versions of the story vary as to exactly who was present and how much was pledged. An Historical Note (http://www4.lib.purdue.edu/archon/?p=creators/creator&id=17) on the Purdue website says:
“In the autumn of 1935, at a dinner party at Elliott’s home, Amelia outlined her dreams for women and aviation and spoke of her desire to conduct studies on how long-distance flying affected pilots. Before the evening was over, guest David Ross offered to donate $50,000 as a gift toward the cost of providing a machine suitable for the flying laboratory.” No source is cited.
Biographer Mary Lovell (The Sound of Wings, 1987) wrote that in the autumn of 1935, at a dinner party at the Elliott’s home, David Ross offered to donate $50,000 toward the cost of providing a machine suitable for the flying laboratory. As a source she cites "Frehafer, R.B. Stewart" with no further explanation.
Biographer Susan Butler (East to the Dawn, 1997) wrote:
"Now, in the fall of 1935, President Elliott arranged a dinner party at Purdue. Present were AE, David Ross and J.K.Lilly, both wealthy alumni associated with the foundation. According to Purdue Research Foundation records , each offered her a $20,000 donation." The source she cites is "information sent to me by W.D. Griggs, assistant treasurer, Purdue Research Foundation" but it's not clear whether anything more than the amount donated was provided by Griggs.
Elgen Long (The Mystery Solved, 1999) wrote: "At a dinner party hosted by Elliott, AE and GP explained to Ross and other benefactors….[etc., etc]. Ross offered to back the project with $50,000." No source is cited.
Biographer Doris Rich (Amelia Earhart, A Biography, 1989) makes no mention of a dinner party, nor does Mantz biographer Don Dwiggins (Hollywood Pilot 1967). Amelia says nothing about it in Last Flight (1937) and George Putnam doesn't mention it in in Soaring Wings(1939).
Nobody who does mention it gives a specific date for the dinner but the only time Earhart was at Purdue in the autumn of 1935 was from November 7 to November 26. Correspondence between Putnam and Elliott makes it clear that Putnam first broached the idea of a new airplane for Amelia to Elliot in a memorandum they discussed during a meeting in Washington on November 11, 1935. In that document Putnam said, "The base cost would be $30,000. The maximum total cost, including special equipment, preparation, flight outlays, etc., would be $40,000. That figure would be the guaranteed top."
On December 7, 1935 (by which time AE was gone from Purdue) Elliott wrote to Putnam saying he has "been able to do some preliminary work with reference to the proposal presented in your memorandum."
So there appears to have been no time in the autumn of 1935 when such a dinner party at Elliott's home, attended by AE and prospective donors, could have possibly happened. It is not until January 2, 1936 that Elliott writes to Putnam saying "This is being written to say confidentially that, providing a proper scientific research foundation can be established, there is no doubt now as to the availability of the money. How soon could you send me another memorandum setting forth the research characteristics of the project?"
It looks to me like it was Elliott, not Earhart, who convinced Ross and Lilly to put up $40,000, but I want to be damn sure I'm right before I declare a key event in the Earhart story to be myth. Can anyone find a source that sheds any more light on how this all went down?
-
Too easy:
R.B. Stewart and Purdue University Hardcover – January, 1983
by Ruth W. Freehafer (Author)
Be the first to review this item
1 Format: Hardcover
Hardcover from $7.45
See all formats and editions
Other Hardcover Sellers on Amazon:
13 Used
from $7.45
4 New
from $73.11
1 Collectible
from $10.00
Dan Brown, #2408
-
Too easy:
Aaaaargh! Okay, I ordered a copy.
-
So there appears to have been no time in the autumn of 1935 when such a dinner party at Elliott's home, attended by AE and prospective donors, could have possibly happened.
On Monday, 4 November 1935, AE drove from Evanston [IL] for an appearance before >900 people at the Hammond [IN] High School on behalf of the Hammond Junior Women's Club. She dined alone (before local women joined her) at the Lyndora Hotel. Sources: 11/4/35 and 11/5/35 Hammond [IN] Times.
On Tuesday, 5 November 1935, she was in Chicago for a radio interview by Edgar Guest broadcast on an NBC network (8:30 pm on NBC affiliate WLW, Cincinnati). Source: 11/4/35 Xenia [OH] Gazette.
On Thursday, 7 November 1935, she was interviewed at Purdue by AP, UP etc. newspaper correspondents about her new position. So, the window of opportunity before Putnam's 12 November memorandum started probably Wednesday, 6 November 1935.
edit: On Friday, 8 November 1935, she dined as a guest at Cary Hall, one of the men's residence halls at Purdue. (Source: 6/10/2007 Lafayette [IN] Journal & Courier; 2/7/16 JConline.com). So, the dinner party of AE, Elliott, Ross and Lilly could have been Wednesday the 6th or Thursday the 7th. Elliott likely traveled to Washington DC over the weekend of the 9th/10th, giving AE a window over that weekend to contact GP on the east coast and convey what was discussed during the dinner party, setting the stage for GP to contact Elliott on the 11th.
Dan Brown, #2408
-
So, the window of opportunity before Putnam's 11 November memorandum started probably Wednesday, 6 November 1935.
President Elliott was in Washington the week of November 9. It is possible that Elliott did not leave for Washington until after AE arrived on Nov. 6.
On Tuesday, November 12, Putnam, who is in New York, writes a letter to President Elliott:
"I cannot tell you how interested I find myself in respect to our conversation of yesterday. I play hunches and your cooperation is exactly what is needed in this project.
Whether we would buy an existing ship, or have a special one built, is a technical matter determinable in due course. The top figure quoted you yesterday stands in either event. Incidentally, in the preliminary training there would be several outstanding flights — as, for instance, a record dash across the continent and perhaps one to Panama or wherever. Those would build up experience and familiarity with the ship and at the same time would focus a very great deal of the right kind of attention on the project and the alliance.
The more I consider the matter the more confident I am that, with successful outcome, the backers can get back at least a substantial portion, and perhaps all, of their advances.
I will be eager to hear of your progress, if any, with the individual you propose to contact."
So Putnam pitched the idea to Elliott. Elliott liked it and thought he knew somebody who would be a "backer."
Putnam and Elliott had the conversation "yesterday" which would be Monday, November 11. Elliott has a copy of Putnam's "Amelia Earhart Project" memorandum so Putnam was apparently in Washington and the conversation was in person rather than by long-distance telephone.
President Elliott doesn't get back to Purdue until Thursday, November 14. On that date he writes a letter to Putnam who is in New York:
"Your generous note of the twelfth was on my desk when I returned from Washington. Since our thrilling conversation Monday [Nov. 11], I have accumulated some ideas which I hope to be able to discuss with you when I am in New York during the week of the twenty-fifth.
I have just come from a conference here in connection with the aeronautical meeting in progress on the campus today and tomorrow. A.E. is performing in noble fashion. She has the entire campus on its toes."
It's obvious from the letters that no dinner party has taken place where money has been pledged. It is January 2 before Elliott informs Putnam confidentially that "providing a proper scientific research foundation can be established, there is no doubt now as to the availability of the money."
-
Interesting stuff.
I would think that Purdue might have a detailed day by day diary or calendar of President Elliot's activities. Have you tried searching for that?
Andrew
-
To be precise, November 9th was a Saturday, 11th a Monday, 12th a Tuesday, 25th a Monday.
Dan
-
To be precise, November 9th was a Saturday, 11th a Monday, 12th a Tuesday, 25th a Monday
You're right. I had plugged in 1936. My bad. I'll fix my earlier post.
-
I would think that Purdue might have a detailed day by day diary or calendar of President Elliot's activities. Have you tried searching for that?
I don't see anything like that in the Purdue e-archives. Do you?
-
In Last Flight AE wrote:
"Where to find the tree on which costly airplanes grow, I did not know. But I did know the kind I wanted - an Electra Lockheed, big brother to my Vegas, with, of course, Wasp engines."
But not necessarily a Model 10E "Electra Lockheed." In Putnam's original pitch to Elliott on November 11, 1935 he says:
"A plane is available with the desired requirements. It embraces refinements and improvements whose practical demonstration can be important factors in commercial aeronautical progress.
Either a stock model will be purchased or a ship built especially. That can be decided only after careful comparison of the two proposals. For this “custom-built” job the engineering has already been done. It is not an “experimental” ship, but a development of proved design, power plant, etc. Unless the finished product fulfilled pre-determined requirements, delivery would not be taken.
The contemplated ship would have a maximum speed, at average altitudes, in excess of 225 miles an hour. With two pilots and full fuel load, its cruising range exceeds 6000 miles. It would be capable of sustained flight on one motor. I would, of course, have special tanks, instruments, and other devices."
The airplane he's talking about is the Model 12 Electra Junior then being designed for a Bureau of Air Commerce competition for a "feeder-liner" to serve small commercial markets. The Model 12 was a scaled down Model 10 that used the same 450 hp Wasp Jr. engines (P&W R-985) as the Model 10A. It was to be a real hot-rod with an anticipated top speed of 225 mph at 5,000 feet but the 6,000 mile range Putnam mentioned was pure fantasy. The engineering had been done but it was still a paper airplane. The first prototype would not fly until June 1936. Until mid-February 1936 the plan was for AE to make her world flight in a Model 12 (wait for it....) on pontoons. The problem was, the floats were going to be hideously expensive. When Lockheed said they could guarantee a 4,500 mile range for a modified Model 10E Putnam and Mantz went for the bigger airplane. Earhart appears to have been almost completely disengaged from the whole process.
-
In "Amelia Earhart - a Biography" (page 225) Doris Rich says that Putnam stole the term "flying laboratory" from public relations man Jack Maddux who used it to describe Lindbergh's new plane in 1930 (apparently the Lockheed Sirius on floats that he and his wife used for survey flights). She cites NYT Jan. 16, 1930 as the source but I can find no such reference.
-
Rich (page 224) also says Putnam "refused Mantz permission to use the ship in a film." If the reference is to Love On the Run, we know how that turned out and it says something about Mantz's relationship with Putnam. Rich cites a letter in the "Dwiggins file". That's Mantz biographer Don Dwiggins (Hollywood Pilot, 1967) but where is "the Dwiggins file?" The EAA Library and Archive in Oshkosh has Dwiggins' papers but they include no correspondence between Putnam and Mantz. The NASM Archive has Rich's papers which supposedly include her "Dwiggins file." Dwiggins died in 1988. Rich's book was published in 1989, so it's possible that so she may have gotten copies of the correspondence directly from Dwiggins. I really need to get into Rich's papers at NASM.
-
NEW LINDBERGH PLANE A 'FLYING LABORATORY'; Colonel Will Test Possibilities of Aviation Above Storm Clouds, Air Line Head Says.
This was the headline from the NYT of 1/16/30.
LTM,
Karen Hoy
-
NEW LINDBERGH PLANE A 'FLYING LABORATORY'; Colonel Will Test Possibilities of Aviation Above Storm Clouds, Air Line Head Says.
This was the headline from the NYT of 1/16/30.
Thanks Karen. For some reason the U.S Newspaper Archives (http://newspaperarchive.com/us/) search engine couldn't find it.
-
There is a program of Earharts scheduled events at Purdue in November 1935 on the Purdue site
http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/epurdue/id/716/rec/69
-
There is a program of Earharts scheduled events at Purdue in November 1935 on the Purdue site
Yes. No dinner at Elliott's home but I wouldn't expect something like that to be on an official schedule.
-
NEW LINDBERGH PLANE A 'FLYING LABORATORY'; Colonel Will Test Possibilities of Aviation Above Storm Clouds, Air Line Head Says.
This was the headline from the NYT of 1/16/30.
Here's another one for you Karen (or anyone else).
Doris Rich (Amelia Earhart - a biography, page 196) quotes the January 19, 1935 issue of Newsweek as saying:
“Every so often Miss Earhart, like other prominent flyers, pulls a spectacular stunt to hit the front pages. This enhances a flyer’s value as a cigarette endorser, helps finance new planes, sometimes publicizes a book.”
I want to use that quote but I can't cite a secondary source. Did Newsweek really say that?
-
Similarly, Rich (Page 197) says that the British weekly The Aeroplane of January 16, 1935 called Earhart's Hawaii to Oakland flight "A Useless Adventure."
I need primary source confirmation.
-
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/utcah/00380/cah-00380.html#a0
University of Texas at Austin has articles from 1933 in their library. Anyone in that area with time to check it out?
-
Ric, I can try to find that Newsweek quotation, within the next day or two, but I do not wish to duplicate anyone else's effort. Our university library catalog shows that they have old Newsweeks, but I will need to verify that.
-
Ric, I can try to find that Newsweek quotation, within the next day or two, but I do not wish to duplicate anyone else's effort. Our university library catalog shows that they have old Newsweeks, but I will need to verify that.
Bill has PM-ed me. He has found the quote in the Jan. 19, 1936 Newsweek and will send it along. Thanks to everyone who offered to help. This is such as GREAT group.
-
Here's Bill's PDF of thhe Newsweek piece.
-
As I mentioned in an earlier posting, the initial plan was to mount the airplane for the world flight on floats. I'd like to have the forum's reaction to the following draft commentary on that decision.
The motivation for putting the airplane on floats is difficult to fathom. There are more lakes, rivers, and bays in the world than there are airports, so floats greatly increase the number of places an aircraft can land and takeoff. The price of convenience is degraded performance and added expense. The prospect of doing an equatorial circumnavigation of the globe on pontoons is problematical. While much of the route is over oceans and along coastal areas, there is no way to avoid the 3.500 mile expanse of Africa without detouring far from the Equator. Floats deny the flight the use of virtually all of the world’s airports and require the planners to find facilities with docks or seaplane ramps (equipped with suitable dollies) for refueling and maintenance. Aircraft on pontoons must have relatively calm, protected water for safe operations. An emergency landing on the open ocean may save the lives of the crew but only briefly postpones the almost certain loss of the aircraft.
-
I'd like to have the forum's reaction to the following draft commentary on that decision.
It's an excellent paragraph.
It depends on how you fit it into the narrative.
I don't think it was totally insane for them to have "planned" to use floats at first.
The first crossing of the Atlantic by aircraft employed seaplanes.
Wiley Post was using a homebrew float plane when he and Will Rogers were killed in Alaska.
Lindbergh and his wife flew a Lockheed floatplane to Asia (Lockheed Model 8 Sirius "Tingmissartoq"--beautiful lines!).
As we know, the Navy carried floatplanes on some of its ships.
So maybe it wasn't immediately apparent that taking a floatplane "around the equator" was ludicrous.
-
I don't think it was totally insane for them to have "planned" to use floats at first.
I agree.
Wiley Post was using a homebrew float plane when he and Will Rogers were killed in Alaska.
That was a Lockheed and it was a fairly recent event. They crashed in August 1935.
Lindbergh and his wife flew a Lockheed floatplane to Asia (Lockheed Model 8 Sirius "Tingmissartoq"--beautiful lines!).
Yep, and for the first flight around the world the Army had floats on the Douglas World Cruisers for some of the legs.
So maybe it wasn't immediately apparent that taking a floatplane "around the equator" was ludicrous.
Yeah. I just don't think they had thought it through.
-
I spent the day yesterday at the NASM Archives going through the Doris Rich (author of "Amelia Earhart - A Biography") papers. Lots of new original source information including correspondence between Putnam and Mantz regarding the airplane. I came back with hundreds of documents and it will take a few days to sort through and digest everything. There's some crazy stuff there and some questions we'll need to try to answer.