You're being a smart aleck now. Unfortunately, you are also very correct. ::)
I think the fact that the landing had in fact been successfully managed would have spoken volumes to her, particularly the documented rationale for landing with intent to take-off again.
You're being a smart aleck now. Unfortunately, you are also very correct. ::)
Agreed Woodman, but this old geezer is not only computer savvy I do social networking as well. At least I know how to spell savvy unless that is the UK version. ;)
Oops, now I have to moderate myself and all this off topic stuff to the Chatterbox, however I am not sure where I will put it there. Maybe a new topic called Nonsense.. :-\
See what you made me do Woody? ;D
I think the fact that the landing had in fact been successfully managed would have spoken volumes to her, particularly the documented rationale for landing with intent to take-off again.
I found that one of the most interesting parts of the article. I get the impression that the whole crew would have loved to have saved the plane. It appears that landing on the reef rather than ditching near the fishing boat was a deliberate choice on their part.
What we tend to forget, and what might have played a major role in Amelia's thought process at the time, was that a large part of her personal "fortune," as it were, was tied up in that shiny hunk of aluminum. People will do the most incredibly irrational things to save money, just as they will do the most incredibly irrantional things to make or get money.
LTM, who still picks up pennies on the sidewalk,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Latest resaerch Bulletin on website via facebook
Better than average luck
TIGHAR # 3199
Sometimes I can be a pain
As an aside, has TIGHAR considered trying to get Hollywood interested in a movie based off of the Niku hypothesis?
The question for me (I'm not AE, of course...) would first be whether a reef landing appeared to be more survivable (to the ship and therefore me) than a ditching; having read about and looked at pictures of Niku's reef I'd take the reef (AE remains to be seen, we hope). Wheels up or down would be next question - wheels down can be an off-airport hazard - but not always. At Niku I believe I'd try for wheels down, given big fat airwheels like the Electra had - that reef isn't much worse than some strips that bird likely saw in her day. This other adventure worked out OK, good to see.
Again, none of us can say about AE for sure, of course - but my own consideration for the reef would be doubly positive had I found myself there and knowing of this fascinating precedent - which was brought to us in this string.
Many thanks, Chris - very cool.
I am sure AE and FN would have been aware of this event and, kept a mental note of it. I wouldn't be surprised either if the rescuers considered this option as well. Lambrecht mentioned a reef/beach landing as a contributing factor in the planning of searching the Phoenix group.Before we all wet our panties out of excitement over the certainty that Earhart would have known of this event, think about how many flying accidents occur every year in the U.S. that you never hear about, only the major ones get national press coverage and the not major ones might get some local press coverage. This event didn't even have any dead people so just how far and wide do you think this non fatal event, in a foreign country got disseminated? Quick, how many planes crashed in Zimbabwe last year? Something you can use to answer this question, TIGHAR has been researching the reef landing scenario for almost 30 years and they had never stumbled onto this story before.
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Letters/LambrechtGoerner.pdf (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Letters/LambrechtGoerner.pdf)
Bob's son was riding in the back seat and was severely injured but survived and he told us that his father said, as they were on the approach to the farmer's field, that he was going to put the gear down to try to save the plane and minimize damage. If he had kept the wheels in the wells the plane would have slid on its belly, damaging the belly, but they both would have walked away. I actually suspect his very last thought was "why the $#@^& did I put the ^%$# gear down!"
Before we all wet our panties out of excitement over the certainty that Earhart would have known of this event, think about how many flying accidents occur every year in the U.S. that you never hear about, only the major ones get national press coverage and the not major ones might get some local press coverage. This event didn't even have any dead people so just how far and wide do you think this non fatal event, in a foreign country got disseminated?
Two words: Hangar [f]lying.
Two words: Hangar [f]lying.
Now Marty, you are not being very nice to the pilots here. ::)
Before we all wet our panties ...
(yada, yada, yada)........But why stop there, she must also subscribe to Russian, French, Italian....etc., magazines and her staff could read and translate them for her and synopsize the interesting stories for her. I'm sure she told them to be on the lookout for stories about landing on reefs.
Give me a break!
Unless someone comes up with a letter from Paul Mantz to AE in which he says, "In a worst case you could always set down on a reef like those Brits did." we're never going to know whether AE or FN was aware of this incident. If we argue that she "certainly would have" been aware of the incident we're making the same mistake Gary habitually makes. The most important thing about this incident is that it shows, beyond doubt, the plausibilty of a course of action that was, until now, purely speculative.I agree with you Ric, this is incontrovertible proof that you can land a plane on a reef, once. Got any more of these examples?
As an aside, has TIGHAR considered trying to get Hollywood interested in a movie based off of the Niku hypothesis?
Let's prove the case first.
I agree with you Ric, this is incontrovertible proof that you can land a plane on a reef, once. Got any more of these examples?
Great pictures Jeff.
Thanks!
It's truly remarkable that there is no obvious damage. I hope they rescued the crew.
Added: I just read the story. Too bad about the crew. That probably happened more than once.
The B-24 wingspan was too much to get a perfect dry landing, one wing would have been felling trees. Plus the low ground clearance of the B-24 doesn't adhere itself to reef landings. They did a pretty good job though Woody, the plane looks to be in one piece, they all walked away from it, or paddled away from it.
Great pictures indeed, the middle picture is taken from a PBY at a later date, 26 days later, plane already breaking apart.
And another. This time a B-24 that was running out of options on the return flight to its base at Funafuti. The reef landing although not perfect was deemed more preferable to a long swim around the Pacific ocean...
"At 0001Z [ local time, DHRS], 29 Dec 1943 I saw Lt Osborne make a crash landing on the reef in the northwest end of the lagoon of Majuro Atoll."
http://marshall.csu.edu.au/Marshalls/html/essays/es-ww2-8.html (http://marshall.csu.edu.au/Marshalls/html/essays/es-ww2-8.html)
Kudos to Art Johnson, who I believe is the one who brought to our attention the General Aircraft Ltd ST-18 Croydon aircraft and its 1936 reef landing, complete with pictures, through his Forum posting of 10 days ago (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,253.msg18857.html#msg18857). A really nice piece of research, Art!
It now remains for me to say something about our return journey, as far as it went, and in the course of which we seem to have attracted far more interest than if we had made an orthodox return and captured the Australia-England record —all thanks to the fact that it nearly ended in tragedy for ourselves as well as for the aircraft.
In 1934, Gatty formed the South Seas Commercial Company with Donald Douglas, with the plan to deliver air service to the islands of the South Pacific. However, the company was soon sold to Pan Am who brought Gatty into the company to organize flight routes in that region.
Bob's son was riding in the back seat and was severely injured but survived and he told us that his father said, as they were on the approach to the farmer's field, that he was going to put the gear down to try to save the plane and minimize damage. If he had kept the wheels in the wells the plane would have slid on its belly, damaging the belly, but they both would have walked away. I actually suspect his very last thought was "why the $#@^& did I put the ^%$# gear down!"
A great--if tragic--story. May Bob rest in peace.
It shows that even very seasoned pilots do things that you wouldn't have done. This is why "coulda, woulda, shoulda" never leads to "did." People make choices. Sometimes they work out well; sometimes they don't.
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Bob's son was riding in the back seat and was severely injured but survived and he told us that his father said, as they were on the approach to the farmer's field, that he was going to put the gear down to try to save the plane and minimize damage. If he had kept the wheels in the wells the plane would have slid on its belly, damaging the belly, but they both would have walked away. I actually suspect his very last thought was "why the $#@^& did I put the ^%$# gear down!"
gl