TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Chris Johnson on January 10, 2014, 01:58:42 AM
-
TIGHAR plan educational trip to island (http://ameliaearhartarchaeology.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/2015-nikumaroro-visit.html)
-
Very interesting. Thanks Chris!
-
Yes. Here's your chance to visit Nikumaroro in style. The trip is still in the planning stage and no price has been set, but I've been told it will definitely be less than $5,000. The trip is in no way contingent upon the results of this summer's expedition but you can bet that if Niku VIII hits the jackpot the 2015 trip will fill in a hurry. So go to http://www.betchartexpeditions.com/contact.htm and let the Betchart folks know you're interested.
-
*ponders several weeks in a small confined space with Gillespie and King*
*shudders*
On the other hand, this could be the trip of a lifetime!
LTM, who will go as long as they promise not to serve mellon balls for dessert,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
-
LTM, who will go as long as they promise not to serve mellon balls for dessert,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Hi Monty. Could this be a play on words??
-
Yes. Here's your chance to visit Nikumaroro in style. The trip is still in the planning stage and no price has been set, but I've been told it will definitely be less than $5,000. The trip is in no way contingent upon the results of this summer's expedition but you can bet that if Niku VIII hits the jackpot the 2015 trip will fill in a hurry. So go to http://www.betchartexpeditions.com/contact.htm and let the Betchart folks know you're interested.
Would that be $5,000 departing from mainland USA - or from Fiji (as shown on the map in the link)?
-
Would that be $5,000 departing from mainland USA - or from Fiji (as shown on the map in the link)?
I'm guessing that the price would be excluding airfare. Air Pacific fares r/t from LAX usually run about $1,000.
-
LTM, who will go as long as they promise not to serve mellon balls for dessert,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Hi Monty. Could this be a play on words??
Somewhat puerile, what, Woody? Not really worthy of TiGHAR.
-
LTM, who will go as long as they promise not to serve mellon balls for dessert,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Hi Monty. Could this be a play on words??
Somewhat puerile, what, Woody? Not really worthy of TiGHAR.
Considering many things before us, one man's sense of puerility might easily be another's sense of propriety, but let us not get testy...
Could be a typo but I admit that the spelling suddenly appears to be rather less than ambiguous - so to my friend Monty I say "be kind, assume the lotus, and chant... ummm... ummm... " - remember your friend the Zen...
Woody, you sure don't miss much on the uptake. 8)
-
Woody, you sure don't miss much on the uptake. 8)
Thanks...I think ???
-
Yep. ;)
-
LTM, who will go as long as they promise not to serve mellon balls for dessert,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Hi Monty. Could this be a play on words??
Somewhat puerile, what, Woody? Not really worthy of TiGHAR.
Considering many things before us, one man's sense of puerility might easily be another's sense of propriety, but let us not get testy...
Could be a typo but I admit that the spelling suddenly appears to be rather less than ambiguous - so to my friend Monty I say "be kind, assume the lotus, and chant... ummm... ummm... " - remember your friend the Zen...
Woody, you sure don't miss much on the uptake. 8)
Why respond to him? I was hoping no one would much anymore.
-
Why respond to him? I was hoping no one would much anymore.
It's gotten to be rather like coming up on a garishly awful auto accident - some just have to gawk as we creep by...
-
Moving right along …..
We've heard back from the folks at Betchart Expeditions who are putting together the 2015 cruise to Nikumaroro. As you may recall, they were asking for expressions of interest from the public to see if there was enough demand to justify the excursion. They are flabbergasted. The response has been greater than they have ever gotten for any proposed trip. Needless to say, they are moving forward with setting up the logistics and getting ready to start accepting bookings.
They are looking at several ships, all very nice, ranging from 60 to 130 in the number of passengers they can accommodate. At this point they're projecting 3 full days and two half days at Nikumaroro. Tom King and I are now trying to figure out how in the name of Nei Manganibuka we're going to give upwards of a hundred people a meaningful and rewarding experience at Niku. Just getting people ashore safely will be a challenge. The landing channel can be treacherous, especially at low tide with surf running - and our guests will not be carefully selected and hardened TIGHARs. This is going to take some careful planning.
-
Maybe if its subscribed by 'over' portly people you could float them in :P
The shark population is in unanimous agreement that that's a great idea.
-
What is one of TIGHAR's maxims? Oh, yes - Adventure is what happens when things go wrong. ;D
LTM, who already has a shark knife,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
-
Moving right along …..
We've heard back from the folks at Betchart Expeditions who are putting together the 2015 cruise to Nikumaroro. As you may recall, they were asking for expressions of interest from the public to see if there was enough demand to justify the excursion. They are flabbergasted. The response has been greater than they have ever gotten for any proposed trip. Needless to say, they are moving forward with setting up the logistics and getting ready to start accepting bookings.
They are looking at several ships, all very nice, ranging from 60 to 130 in the number of passengers they can accommodate. At this point they're projecting 3 full days and two half days at Nikumaroro. Tom King and I are now trying to figure out how in the name of Nei Manganibuka we're going to give upwards of a hundred people a meaningful and rewarding experience at Niku. Just getting people ashore safely will be a challenge. The landing channel can be treacherous, especially at low tide with surf running - and our guests will not be carefully selected and hardened TIGHARs. This is going to take some careful planning.
Floating the portly would give new meaning to the term 'portage' I suppose... and one supposes you'd have fewer to worry about getting back aboard after playing craps with the sharks, sho' nuff.
As to 'what to do on the island' - maybe you and Tom King can figure a way to mount some sort of survey of a meaningful area - a 'FOD walk-down' of sorts, let them 'survey' for scraps. Of course that many un-trained folks might also hopelessly churn the potential finds, but mother nature has already had a lot of time ahead of them.
Cool opportunity, in a warm place, of course.
-
Could you divide everyone into smaller groups and rotate them around? Group 1 on the ship, Group 2 on the island, Group 3 reenacting "Jaws." Then the survivors trade places.
I requested a packet from Betchart.
LTM, who thinks group work is the best kind
Karen Hoy #2610CER
-
...well now, cutting scaveola - there's an idea...
"Hey, watch that machete and pass the loppers... say, have you see my eyeball?"
"Bounced through a minute ago right by Tom's thumb... is that it, lying next to my kneecap on the coral?"
One can easily see that the leadership will have its hands full to make this safe and meaningful for a bunch of uninitiated tourists - yikes!
Maybe seasoned TIGHARs can be broken out to lead various smaller groups... but it's getting clear, the 'broader' you make this mission, aka making it attractive to folks at the 'tour' level, the more stretched the resources for the serious research part of it can get.
Big challenge - kind of an Orient Express exercise - somebody has to safely run the train cross-continent while the murder-mystery party goes on. One nasty coral cut on some fat guy in horn rims and Bermuda shorts will demand some good medical attention fast, too. That is probably up to the tour company to provide for, one guesses - otherwise it's yank the brake cord and off the train for Suva or wherever it is they sail from, I guess (only twenty hours to Honolulu by Cigerette Boat over open seas, if calm...).
Seriously, it is a big deal to make this happen well, that much I can truly appreciate.
-
We're definitely looking at smallish groups led by veteran TIGHARS. Amomg the biggest concerns are ship-to-shore transitions. The ship is always on the high seas - never in sheltered water. And the landing channel is a bit tricky under the best of conditions.
I've put three short videos up on YouTube to illustrate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_RCQMhQQf8&list=UUBmR8Pp9vdb_1YvOIrLAWog&feature=c4-overview
This first clip shows us disembarking from the skiff at the landing channel on a calm day when the tide was high enough to cover the edges of the blasted-out portion of the channel. These are pretty much ideal conditions and, as you can see, disembarking is easy - although you still have to be careful on the slippery reef surface.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_auGra-8Jkg&list=UUBmR8Pp9vdb_1YvOIrLAWog&feature=c4-overview
The next clip shows landing on a day with mild swells when the tide is low enough to expose the edge of the channel. A little trickier.
Sometimes the tide is low enough that the skiff is below the edge of the channel and you have step up onto the reef surface. If there is also a significant swell running it can be hairy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6iD1sqFxfI&list=UUBmR8Pp9vdb_1YvOIrLAWog&feature=c4-overview
This clip shows coming back aboard Nai'a under choppy sea conditions. Not for the faint of heart or the clumsy.
-
Among the biggest concerns are ship-to-shore transitions.
You need some Mulberries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_harbour).
-
Helicopter? Is there a reasonable landing area on shore? Maybe as emergency backup?
-
Helicopter? Is there a reasonable landing area on shore? Maybe as emergency backup?
Lots of good places to land a helicopter. There are long-liners out of Samoa that carry a little Hughes 500 but they're not passenger vessels and a 500 carries only three passengers. We would need a passenger ship big enough to carry a helicopter. Ain't no such animal in the Southwest Pacific.
-
From the videos, it looks like strong team members helping the others disembark. Maybe profiles of the applicant’s physical abilities and experience could be made so each team assembled could have enough strong members. However it's kind of hard to plan for that without knowing who is going and what the conditions will be like.
A bollard at the end of the channel would help secure the boat, disembarking and climbing back on the boat.
Or rig one boat with hand rails and steps, anchor it well at the end of the channel (may be even temporarily sink it) and leave it there for the other ferry boats to dock to.
-
A bollard at the end of the channel would help secure the boat, disembarking and climbing back on the boat.
Or rig one boat with hand rails and steps, anchor it well at the end of the channel (may be even temporarily sink it) and leave it there for the other ferry boats to dock to.
The problem is that the landing channel is so dynamic. The place you disembark changes with the state of the tide.
The best solution might be an amphibious tracked vehicle like the amtracks the Marines used at Tarawa in '43. Of course, we would then need a ship that could transport and deploy such a vehicle. I wonder if there is an amphibious launch that could carry at least 10 people and could be carried as deck cargo and launched by crane. There are amphibious off-road vehicles but they're not seaworthy enough for this job. It's not unusual to have three to four foot seas to deal with on the trip from the ship to the entrance of the channel.
-
Marty's comment about the Mulberries and D-Day rings true for me after watching those three clips. Sure, you can make a landing pretty much anywhere and anyplace you want, but you have to accept the fact that the winds, seas and tides are in charge, not you. I'm not sure how that fits into the structure of a "cruise" as opposed to an "expedition." I'm guessing that some of the people on the "cruise" might not be terribly understanding about Betchart's inability to control and/or influence Mother Nature.
On the other hand, nothing like a sea voyage to cure what ails you.
LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
-
We can caution people about the level of fitness that will be required if they are to participate in all activities offered on the cruise, but I have learned from many years of conducting our Field Schools that some people have an amazing capacity to kid themselves about what they can handle.
That video of coming back aboard Nai'a (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6iD1sqFxfI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUBmR8Pp9vdb_1YvOIrLAWog) in choppy weather looks fairly matter-of-fact and the people all look calm and professional - which they were - but everybody knew that the price of even a small mistake could mean a crushed foot or worse.
-
Maybe there's a size of hovercraft that would work, from small (https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6Rym_jvSv-dwfbHIWPeyrACQPzUfXYNqwGmOZdTebpbvNNHjt8g)
to medium (http://hikemetalboatshipvesselbuilders.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Airlift-Pioneer-Hovercraft1.jpg)
to large (http://fotosdebarcos.com.br/wp-content/uploads/Hovercraft-5.jpg)
to OMG! (http://www.diseno-art.com/news_content/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Russian-Hovercraft-beach-1.jpg)
-
I like the yellow one. I wonder if a hovercraft is a real possibility. On a fairly calm day a hovercraft could go ashore over the reef pretty much anywhere.
-
I like the yellow one.
The webpage for the manufacturer of the yellow one (http://hikemetalboatshipvesselbuilders.com/index.php/custom-manufactured-hovercraft-acv/) mentions that it is "designed specifically for the tourist and transport industries," and that it "comfortably seats 25 passengers plus 1-crew"
-
The webpage for the manufacturer of the yellow one (http://hikemetalboatshipvesselbuilders.com/index.php/custom-manufactured-hovercraft-acv/) mentions that it is "designed specifically for the tourist and transport industries," and that it "comfortably seats 25 passengers plus 1-crew"
Looks like it would be the perfect solution -but the cost would probably be prohibitive. We'll look into it.
-
Maybe they have a rent-to-own program, or we could lease one in return for them geting the publicity exposure?
LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
-
The Betchart folks are in Fiji now looking at possible ships. We'll investigate the hovercraft angle.
-
I like the yellow one. I wonder if a hovercraft is a real possibility. On a fairly calm day a hovercraft could go ashore over the reef pretty much anywhere.
I can imagine that the owners would be concerned about tearing the rubber inflation cushion on the sharp coral reef.
-
After the success of this coming expedition, can you imagine the crowd wanting to go to Niku!
I would love to go, but I would probably fall and hurt myself on the reef....and then I would have to sue you....and well there's been enough of that lately!
-
Temporary bridging? I have contacts in my old union (IATSE local #5), or maybe the Coast Guard Construction Battalions, if they're still in existence. Would there be engineering help available from Kirabati? I'm thinking that Niku could be a revenue source worth investing some infrastructure into, such as hard-points to mount temporary scaffolding to on the reef. That way the gov't could control (easy/safe) access.
-
I had a crazy idea but a little google search and of course someone already thought of the Balloon Crane (http://www.technewsdaily.com/5561-robot-balloon-crane-instant-seaports.html)
Imagine picking up something like a windowed RV with the class and setting it down next the Camp Zero. Lecture, then, load up and be carried for a tree top tour over to the Seven Site. Well, maybe Niku XIII
-
How about the cheapest, tried and tested way :)
(http://adventurewestvirginia.com/vacations/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Catapult-6.jpg)
You could easy float a bouncy castle onto reef to land on ;D
-
Do you reckon he makes land haha
(http://adventurewestvirginia.com/vacations/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Catapult-4.jpg)
-
I like the yellow one. I wonder if a hovercraft is a real possibility. On a fairly calm day a hovercraft could go ashore over the reef pretty much anywhere.
I can imagine that the owners would be concerned about tearing the rubber inflation cushion on the sharp coral reef.
If it's like the LCAC I rode to the beach in Somalia, you shouldn't have to worry about tearing the skirt. It never touches the ground (or water) until it stops and comes down off the "air cushion".
-
Among the biggest concerns are ship-to-shore transitions.
You need some Mulberries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_harbour).
I can source a "used" example. It may need a bit of Spackle, or Polyfilla as we know it. Shipping charges may be a bit harsh, too.
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2626129/
-
As to the hovercraft, I like the "OMG!" size, given the hazards at Niku.
As to the notion of a trebuchet-type solution, here is a local variant that might be adapted (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u2-od4n5Xl0) for ship-board application... of course some form of anti-rebound / occupant release would also have to be devised. Don't try this at home, kids.
-
Among the biggest concerns are ship-to-shore transitions.
You need some Mulberries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_harbour).
A personal history lesson Marty on the Mulberry harbour
As a kid I was brought up and lived in a village called Stanwell. As a youngster I had a paper round and used to deliver to a road called Mulberry Avenue, never saw any Mulberry bushes there ???
It wasn't until much later I learned that it was named after the famous Mulberry harbour because the guy who designed them lived at Stanwell Place, a big rambling country home in the village.
"Sir John Watson Gibson OBE (9 August 1885 - 19 March 1947) was a civil engineering contractor who built the Sennar and Gebel Aulia Dams in Sudan and coordinated the construction of the Phoenix concrete caisson breakwaters for the 'artificial' Mulberry Harbours"
Born
9 August 1885
27 Pembroke Street, Middlesbrough, North Riding of Yorkshire, Great Britain
Died
19 March 1947
Stanwell Place, Stanwell, Middlesex, Great Britain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:John_Godden/Subpage1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:John_Godden/Subpage1)
"The Gibbons family sold Stanwell Place to civil engineer Sir John Watson Gibson in 1933. Gibson moved to Stanwell whilst building the Queen Mary Reservoir at Littleton,(the largest water storage reservoir in the world at that time). Living at Stanwell Lodge before his purchase of Stanwell Place (90 acres), and the adjoining Stanhope farm (261 acres, including Hammonds farm).[4] In 1936 the Metropolitan Water Board bought most of Gibson's estate, in a contract encompassing 346 acres.[5] It used this land in 1947 on which to develop the King George VI Reservoir.[4]
During the World War II Gibson through his work as deputy director-general civil engineering (special) at the Ministry of Supply (1943–4) he was one of the principal people responsible for the construction of the top secret Mulberry Harbours. It was as a result of this that he lent Stanwell Place to the SHAEF Commanders where they held two top level meetings during the build up to D-Day and the Normandy Invasion. The American high command including Henry L. Stimson, General George C. Marshall, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, Admiral Ernest J. King and General of the Air Force Henry H. Arnold stayed at Stanwell Place during the meetings.[6]
After Gibson’s death, Stanwell Place and its residual 22acres were sold to King Faisal II of Iraq. Gibson's sons still owned the residual 17 acres of Stanhope farm.[5] After the assassination of King Faisal in 1958,[3] the estate was purchased for gravel extraction. Despite local attempts to prevent it, the house was allowed to become derelict and eventually knocked down."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanwell_Place (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanwell_Place)
As kids we used to play in the Iraqi woods as we all knew them because of the connection with the owner King Faisal of Iraq.
Small world
-
A personal history lesson Marty on the Mulberry harbour ...
Small world
Thanks, Jeff!
I've only read about the artificial harbors.
I used to use an e-mail program called "Mulberry." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_%28email_client%29) Its name had nothing to do with the concrete caissons or the Iraq woods, but I remember it with affection and gratitude.
-
What physical and mental capabilities is TIGHAR looking for in participants on the Niku trip in 2015?
Is there some kind of screening criteria? I am about to put in a deposit, so I'm just wondering if I qualify.
LTM (who is always prepared)
Karen Hoy 2610CER
-
There are no screening criteria. You have to be over 18 or accompanied by an adult, and you have to be able to pay for the trip. This is a tourist cruise. Tom King and I (and a couple other Niku veterans) will be going along as lecturers and tour guides.
-
And the estimated cost?
Ted Campbell
-
And the estimated cost?
Ted Campbell
Ted, the cost options (beginning at $7,195, plus air) are laid out at the end of the very detailed brochure (http://www.betchartexpeditions.com/pdf_files/amelia_earhart_B1.pdf) from Betchart Expeditions, Inc.
-
Ted, the cost options (beginning at $7,195, plus air) are laid out at the end of the very detailed brochure (http://www.betchartexpeditions.com/pdf_files/amelia_earhart_B1.pdf) from Betchart Expeditions, Inc.
Interesting and informative brochure Bruce. Thanks for posting it.
-
Off Topic a little, but this post led me to discover Tom King wrote a book called 'Thirteen Bones'. So I did some googling and discovered that in 2001 I wrote 'The Bones of Nikumororo', which was a few paragraphs of a plea for help, with a catchy title. I had no idea it would be available on the web almost fourteen years later.
Strange the grip the Earhart thing has on us.