Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Temperatures on Gardner  (Read 47301 times)

Gary LaPook

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
Temperatures on Gardner
« on: June 18, 2012, 06:41:35 AM »

According to the U.S. Navy Marine Climatic Atlas of the World. Volume V, South Pacific Ocean (1979) in the area of the Pacific around Gardner, during the month of July, the temperature stays between 81° F and 84° F for 80% of the time, goes down to 79° F for 10% of the time and all the way up to 86° F for 10% of the time, it never gets any hotter. You can get similar, but less detailed, weather information from the pilot chart available here.

Maritime climates, especially on small islands, are dominated by the temperature of the surrounding ocean water so have little variation. I've spent a lot of time on South Pacific islands and I don't remember any really hot days (anecdotal.) I posted three years of official weather data for the island of New Guinea here and the highest temperature recorded in July during that three year period at Nadzab (the closest station to Lae) was 86.° F. Nadzab is at almost the same latitude as Gardner. The highest temperature recorded anywhere in New Guinea (12 reporting stations) during that three year period was 95° F and that was in December, the middle of the southern hemisphere summer, and New Guinea is much larger than Gardner and some of the reporting stations are well inland so should have larger deviations from the marine climate.

I am constantly hearing from TIGHAR that the temperatures on Gardner are hellish but that doesn't make any sense meteorologically. So aside from anecdotes, is there official weather data available from the time Gardner was occupied? I would expect the Brits to have gathered this data. Did TIGHAR record such data on its many expeditions?

gl
Logged

Andrew M McKenna

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 682
  • Here I am during the Maid of Harlech Survey.
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012, 08:08:38 AM »

Gary

I can't really comment on how the weather observations are collected for the publications you mention, but I'm pretty sure those temperature readings are not taken by instruments that are subject to direct sun, they are the ambient temperature in some sort of controlled environmental recording device.

Here is a sample of the temperature on a typical sunny day at the 7 site, out of the wind, away from the ocean, in the scaevola, and over the coral rubble which can heat up a bit.

I think we can say the local conditions vary.  If hacking scaevola in the tropical sun isn't hellish, I don't know what is.

Andrew

« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 08:19:47 AM by Andrew M McKenna »
Logged

Greg Daspit

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 784
3971R
 
Logged

Gary LaPook

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2012, 11:13:09 AM »

Gary

I can't really comment on how the weather observations are collected for the publications you mention, but I'm pretty sure those temperature readings are not taken by instruments that are subject to direct sun, they are the ambient temperature in some sort of controlled environmental recording device.

Here is a sample of the temperature on a typical sunny day at the 7 site, out of the wind, away from the ocean, in the scaevola, and over the coral rubble which can heat up a bit.

I think we can say the local conditions vary.  If hacking scaevola in the tropical sun isn't hellish, I don't know what is.

Andrew
At 5:33 into the helicopter tour of the island video you see Bill Carter standing in the shade of tall trees located right on the beach in about the same location where tall trees are visible in the Bevington photo. In the narration of the video, Ric says that much of the island was covered by tall Buka trees until they were cut down by the settlers after Earhart's disappearance. The helicopter tour also shows other areas of tall trees along the beach. Did you also measure the temperature  in the shade of tall trees along the beach, I'll bet it was significantly cooler than the 109° you measured way back in the bush to illustrate the difficulties you guys faced. I see that it would be very daunting for Earhart to hack her way back through the scavola, especially without machetes, so it makes much more sense that she would have established a camp right on the beach under the shade of trees or a parachute where the temperature should be only in the 80's due to proximity to the ocean and ocean breezes.

gl
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 11:17:47 AM by Gary LaPook »
Logged

Chris Johnson

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Trying to give a fig but would settle for $100,000
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2012, 12:07:57 PM »

GLP

Isn't that the argument about the 7 site, shade and cooling trade winds

Logged

Andrew M McKenna

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 682
  • Here I am during the Maid of Harlech Survey.
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2012, 12:17:23 PM »

Gary

Yes, if you are under the canopy, and not exerting yourself, it can be significantly more comfortable under the canopy in the shade, or relative shade.  It is hard to really get out of the sun completely, and there is a lot of reflected light if you are in sight of the water.  I do not know if we have any measurements as you describe.  Yes it would have been more comfortable near the beach especially if there is a breeze. 

At the top of the ridge at the 7 site, which was more open than it is these days, there can be a nice breeze (after we clear the scaevola), and this seems to be one reason why Gallagher liked the spot so much as to have a camp put there.

I think we imagine AE's "camp zero" to be right on the beach inland from the Electra.  After a week though, I would imagine that she/they would be venturing farther afield in an effort to find water / food.  This can lead you into many areas that are far from the beach, but not where you have to hack through scaevola.  I think the NC survivors found such a spot where brackish water was available for a time up in the center of Nutiran. 

For example, imagine that you spotted the small lake in the photo below while flying overhead, and you happen to be investigating it on the morning of July 9th, when suddenly you hear a radial engine.  No matter what you do, it is going to take a several minutes to get where you are out in the open. 

The point is that she didn't have to be camped out in the middle of the scaevola where it gets so hot.  She could have camped right on the beach, but happened to be somewhere else at the time of the overflight.

Andrew




Logged

Gary LaPook

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2012, 03:09:37 PM »

Wouldn't the temperature standing under tall trees, on or near the beach, depend on the time of day (angle of sun)? The afternoon sun on many homes in Southern California requires the inhabitants to install pools and prepare cocktails with umbrellas.  My house, not having a pool, get's very hot in the afternoon when the sun gets under the trees.  Just a notion.  No science or opinion intended.

Leon
I just came inside from my patio is Southern California and as the sun moves we change chairs around our patio table under the umbrella, kinda like moving around the tree on Gardner.

gl
Logged

Gary LaPook

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 03:14:04 PM »



For example, imagine that you spotted the small lake in the photo below while flying overhead, and you happen to be investigating it on the morning of July 9th, when suddenly you hear a radial engine.  No matter what you do, it is going to take a several minutes to get where you are out in the open. 

The point is that she didn't have to be camped out in the middle of the scaevola where it gets so hot.  She could have camped right on the beach, but happened to be somewhere else at the time of the overflight.

Andrew
O.K., just plain bad luck. Of all the time she had spent on the island up to that time this is the exact time she decided to go exploring for that lake. I don't know, it would seem to me (just speculating) that if she had seen that in the fly over that she wouldn't have put off locating it for five days, but, that just me.

gl
Logged

Anthony Allen Roach

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2012, 03:24:49 PM »

Is there anyway we can get some temperature reports from this expedition?  Maybe included in the dailies?  I imagine the KOK has a thermometer.  Since it is July, it would be interesting to see what the temperature actually is like at this time of year.
"Six the Hard Way."
 
Logged

Gary LaPook

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2012, 10:39:29 PM »

Is there anyway we can get some temperature reports from this expedition?  Maybe included in the dailies?  I imagine the KOK has a thermometer.  Since it is July, it would be interesting to see what the temperature actually is like at this time of year.
Good idea, including measurements on the shore in the shade and not just in the hottest spot that can be found.

gl
Logged

Adam Marsland

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2012, 03:06:36 AM »



For example, imagine that you spotted the small lake in the photo below while flying overhead, and you happen to be investigating it on the morning of July 9th, when suddenly you hear a radial engine.  No matter what you do, it is going to take a several minutes to get where you are out in the open. 

The point is that she didn't have to be camped out in the middle of the scaevola where it gets so hot.  She could have camped right on the beach, but happened to be somewhere else at the time of the overflight.

Andrew
O.K., just plain bad luck. Of all the time she had spent on the island up to that time this is the exact time she decided to go exploring for that lake. I don't know, it would seem to me (just speculating) that if she had seen that in the fly over that she wouldn't have put off locating it for five days, but, that just me.

gl

Yeah, I just don't get why you find things like this so hard to believe.  How many times are you waiting for the phone to ring all day and when it finally comes you're in the bathroom?  Waiting for rescue could be the very reason she waited so long to leave the beach.  After a week, she finally gives up (or is forced to move on) and then, bam, they fly over.  Not only does that sound totally plausible, that sounds exactly like life to me.
Logged

Malcolm McKay

  • Read-only
  • *
  • Posts: 551
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2012, 03:54:48 AM »


Yeah, I just don't get why you find things like this so hard to believe.  How many times are you waiting for the phone to ring all day and when it finally comes you're in the bathroom?  Waiting for rescue could be the very reason she waited so long to leave the beach.  After a week, she finally gives up (or is forced to move on) and then, bam, they fly over.  Not only does that sound totally plausible, that sounds exactly like life to me.

The thing is however what were she or they relying on for water.
Logged

Jeff Victor Hayden

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1387
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2012, 06:27:11 AM »

The thing is however what were she or they relying on for water.

Exactly, that's the point I have been trying to get across for months. If there, survival time would have been very short due to the difficulty in obtaining suitable drinking water.
Another point worth noting was mentioned by some one in another thread. The SAR over flight may have come as a complete surprise to them. Expecting rescue by sea going vessel as they were the only SAR teams in the area, at that time. I thought that was a good point anyway because not everybody expects the unexpected.
This must be the place
 
Logged

Alex Fox

  • T1
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2012, 03:17:39 PM »

Didn't TIGHAR's flyover pretty definitively show how hard it would be to see someone on shore, even if they were jumping around waving a white flag?  It seems pretty far down the hypothetical road to me that (a) there was water near the 7 site, (b) the water was drinkable, and (c) AE was getting water when the plane went over.

It seems to me that even if (a) and (b) are true, (c) is irrelevant because the plane probably wouldn't have seen her anyway, whether on the beach or getting water.  (and that ignores the fact the the pilot thought the island was inhabited anyway)
#4317
 
Logged

john a delsing

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Minnesota Johnny D.
Re: Temperatures on Gardner
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2012, 03:30:17 PM »

Quote
Did you also measure the temperature  in the shade of tall trees along the beach, I'll bet it was significantly cooler than the 109° you measured way back in the bush to illustrate the difficulties you guys faced. I see that it would be very daunting for Earhart to hack her way back through the scavola, especially without machetes, so it makes much more sense that she would have established a camp right on the beach under the shade of trees or a parachute where the temperature should be only in the 80's due to proximity to the ocean and ocean breezes.

Quote
The thing is however what were she or they relying on for water.

Quote from Gary LaPook and Malcolm McKay

    You people don’t seem to understand how important it is for many Tighar members to think up reasons why Amelia could not get to an opening or to the beach, take off her blouse, and wave it over her head, and be seen by any one of the 3 airplanes and 6 navy aviators looking for her in the approx 28 minutes  they were flying over Gardner island.
    The only real answer is if Amelia was already dead ( or dieing ), or if Amelia was not on Gardner, that would ruin the ‘castaway of the seven site’ theory, which would be greatly unsettling to many as then who could have opened the clam at site seven in the American way ? (certainly not any of the 25 American costies in their years at or near this site), and then there are the many fire remains to be accounted for. If AE didn’t light these fires who else could have  ? (again certainly not the costies, or the settlers, or others ) But the kicker is the turtle bones and birds eaten,,,, that by itself could only be the work of AE.
    We have to keep the legend of the castaway at the seven site alive, which means only one of two possibilities: some variation of the navy guys incompetence or Amelia finding on a ½ mile wide island some place to hike to, at just the right moment, that she can’t get out for the next approx. half hour.
The Earth is Full
 
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
 

Copyright 2021 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.18 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines Powered by PHP