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Author Topic: Still from ROV video  (Read 902157 times)

Gary LaPook

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #930 on: February 18, 2012, 04:58:33 PM »


Woody
Yeah, too bad that she didn't turn on her RDF and tune into the Lae station when she reached cruising altitude.  If her RDF  wasn't working  she might have gone back and have it looked at and fixed before she continued on.  After all it was their lifeline and she knew from the test flight the day before that there were problems.

Or, if she still thought she was still  too close she might have tuned another station, like Rabaul to test and be sure that the RDF was working bwfore she flew 2360 miles and find out when she needed it that it wasn't working.
Amen.

gl
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #931 on: February 18, 2012, 05:14:05 PM »

just a random question, in the file/telegram i have attached... it says bulb of left carburetor thermometer replaced

the thermometer in question wouldnt be like the one found on gardner would it

i know nothink about planes but know my way round car / bike mechanics etc

but the term thermometer to me indicates a glass object wid mercury in  :)

as we call it temperature gage  ::)   
We are an echo of the past


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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #932 on: February 18, 2012, 05:21:51 PM »

The way the wire/rope/cable/ hugs this 'coral plateau' is interesting. It eventually vanishes underneath the 'coral plateau', picture 1. What could cause that to happen?

These images were taken at a depth of roughly 800 feet where the slope of the reef begins to decrease.  This is known as the "talus slope" where loose coral ("talus") that tumbles down the steep reef slope piles up.  Your "coral plateau" is probably just talus that tumbled down some time after the rope came down.
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John Ousterhout

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #933 on: February 18, 2012, 09:26:49 PM »

The Lae TX was on 6540, still too high a freq to work on AE's loop antenna. 
Cheers,
JohnO
 
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #934 on: February 18, 2012, 10:29:59 PM »

Quote
Quote from: Irvine John Donald on February 18, 2012, 07:05:17 AM

Quote
Quote from: Gary LaPook on February 18, 2012, 02:43:26 AM

Wouldn't it make more sense to use all of the fuel remaining
in searching for Howland since they knew they were fairly close to it
?

In other posts I also discussed how shooting a moon shot would keep them in the vicinity of Howland.

Doesn't look like I was hiding the ball.

gl



Surely you jest?  That bolded line is you asking a question!  Not making any statement that you believe in the crashed and sank theory.   You're really stretching now.


That was at the end of a long post that I shortened down to keep Marty from yelling at me. :D Go back and read the whole post and you will see it is clear that I have never hidden the fact that I believe that they "crashed and sank." So that provides you with your "one post" in which I stated my position, there are many others.

gl
 
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 09:43:42 PM by Gary LaPook »
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #935 on: February 18, 2012, 10:58:57 PM »

Quote
"Maybe she meant the reserve" and as you typed those words you knew that it is as contrived as the old "the dog ate my homework" excuse, created to try to explain away this "inconvenient truth" because it doesn't fit your theory.

No Gary, I don't 'know' that it is 'contrived' at all - my best understanding of what I read there says that what you have concluded is far from certain - that's the point.


LTM -
The other radio operator, Leo Bellarts, who logged "BUT GAS IS RUNNING LOW"  also said:

Earhart’s Voice: “The last time we heard her voice it was so loud and clear that you could hear her outside the radio shack. We heard her quite a few times, but that last time, it sounded as if she would have broken out in a scream if she hadn’t stopped talking. She was just about ready to break into tears and go into hysterics, that’s exactly the way I’d describe her voice, I’ll never forget it”.

Sounds like somebody running on fumes doesn't it, not somebody with a large fuel reserve left in the plane. I have missed instrument approaches and have had to divert to an alternate and I never went into hysterics because I DID HAVE A FUEL RESERVE to use on the way to the alternate. What about you, Jeff, did you ever get hysterical after you missed an approach and had to go to your alternate, using your fuel reserve?

ITASCA Radio Operators: “During the flight, the ITASCA radio operators were getting disgusted with her for not staying on schedule and just hanging up after just a few words. She apparently didn’t listen for us at all. She’d call, come on and just say, the weather’s overcast and then just hang it up, not go ahead. She never tried to establish contact until the last - the last quart of gas she had. ..."

Looks like Bellarts also interpreted Earhart's statement that she was out of gas, not that she had some reserve of fuel left. The other people on the scene also interpreted her words the same way. The captain immediately recalled the shore party and they were aboard only 30 minutes after her last transmission and the ship was underway an hour and a half after that at 2210 Z, less than two hours after her last transmission at 2013 Z. Nobody ever came up with the "fuel reserve" interpretation until TIGHAR conveniently invented it more than 50 years after the event to support their theory.

gl
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 11:42:52 PM by Gary LaPook »
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John Joseph Barrett

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #936 on: February 19, 2012, 09:36:39 AM »

Jeff N, You are right that this thread has lost its rudder and begun to drift. One thing I think we all seem to agree on is that the plane did, at some point sink. Gary, and probably some others on here, think AE/FN ran out of fuel and went down in the ocean, eventually sinking. fair enough, it is a credible scenario. Others on here think that our duo,, running low on fuel and unable to find Howland, turned toward an area where they new there was some land to be. I agree with Gary in that it is impossible to get there from here if you don't know where here is. I think, though, that FN new where here was as a line, just not where on that line, so they did know which way to go to maybe find land. Finding land and setting the plane down, they watched as it eventually washed into the ocean, again, eventually sinking. See, same result, plane sinks, duo expires either way. Now, that said, back to the thread. Jeff H stated a while back that he was going to send some of the stills to folks in the business of building/repairing/restoring aircraft to get their take on what they see. Has that been done, Jeff H, and any results? I'm still undecided as to whether there is anything really in the stills or it is my wishful thinking. Some things I think I see, others I don't. Any reply from the build/repair/restore folks?   LTM-  John
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #937 on: February 19, 2012, 09:40:42 AM »

From another thread... 

ROV search

The stories you read in this forum and elsewhere all suggest that it's not easy to get ashore with a boat due to surf action.  I have read that the current comes around the tip of the island and would have pushed the Electra off the reef edge while the pictures of the surf come head onto the beach. I would imagine that this creates the problems with getting a boat ashore. Andrew has been swimming in this and can likely shed some light on it. I think the Electra might be pushed off the reef in the direction of the current and the surf would keep pushing it to shore. Hence the Electra would be pushed down the shore line and getting holed each time the surf pushed it against the ref edge. So how far down the shore would it travel before sinking?  Was that the premise used in the ROV search?
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #938 on: February 19, 2012, 10:50:10 AM »

Jeff N, You are right that this thread has lost its rudder and begun to drift. One thing I think we all seem to agree on is that the plane did, at some point sink. Gary, and probably some others on here, think AE/FN ran out of fuel and went down in the ocean, eventually sinking. fair enough, it is a credible scenario. Others on here think that our duo,, running low on fuel and unable to find Howland, turned toward an area where they new there was some land to be. I agree with Gary in that it is impossible to get there from here if you don't know where here is. I think, though, that FN new where here was as a line, just not where on that line, so they did know which way to go to maybe find land. Finding land and setting the plane down, they watched as it eventually washed into the ocean, again, eventually sinking. See, same result, plane sinks, duo expires either way. Now, that said, back to the thread. Jeff H stated a while back that he was going to send some of the stills to folks in the business of building/repairing/restoring aircraft to get their take on what they see. Has that been done, Jeff H, and any results? I'm still undecided as to whether there is anything really in the stills or it is my wishful thinking. Some things I think I see, others I don't. Any reply from the build/repair/restore folks?   LTM-  John
John, good response from aircraft restoration team. Only concerns were, you've guessed it, scale! So unless there was also a Radio Control model aircraft club on Gardner Island things are looking pretty good. They are tracking down some blueprints for us and will request more stills when they get them.
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #939 on: February 19, 2012, 11:21:23 AM »

Any thoughts on how plexiglass would look after 75 years in sea water? There's some material down there that you can just about see through. You can see the coral, sea shells and junk underneath it (just). Surely it wouldn't survive?
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« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 12:53:29 PM by Jeff Victor Hayden »
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #940 on: February 19, 2012, 12:06:52 PM »

Richie, she probably was not using the radio for any kind of navigation at the time of takeoff but she would not have to open the hatch to rotate the loop antenna. If you look at the attachment, in the lower center portion of the instrument panel there is a rectangular box with a white knob in each corner. This is the control box for the loop antenna. There is a dial in the center that shows you which direction the loop is pointed and has, among other controls, a knob to rotate the loop antenna on top of the aircraft. Short course in rdf operation.
Nope, that's the remote control for her radio receiver. That photo was taken before the loop was installed. The radio control is clearly visible in this September 20, 1936 photo.

gl

OOOPS!  I knew that. Thanks Gary.

Richie, sorry about that. When an old guy trys to multi-task things sometimes get a little confused. I have attached a photo of AE with the loop antenna. It's not easy to see but the best I could find. The antenna is mounted on the roof of the aircraft, the white part) with a control for rotating the antenna directly underneath the loop in the roof of the cabin. There is a wheel to turn the loop which I have circled in yellow. The red arrow points to a scale to show which direction the loop is turned. There is a index mark there somewhere to align with the numbers on the scale. While hard to see I think the white arrow is pointing to it (partly hidden by AE's right hand). You had to manually rotate the antenna until you found the null(where there was either no signal or the least amount of signal) and that was the direction of the station from the aircraft. I hope this clears thing up. Sorry for the error.
Woody (former 3316R)
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #941 on: February 19, 2012, 12:24:01 PM »


Woody
Yeah, too bad that she didn't turn on her RDF and tune into the Lae station when she reached cruising altitude.  If her RDF  wasn't working  she might have gone back and have it looked at and fixed before she continued on.  After all it was their lifeline and she knew from the test flight the day before that there were problems.

Or, if she still thought she was still  too close she might have tuned another station, like Rabaul to test and be sure that the RDF was working bwfore she flew 2360 miles and find out when she needed it that it wasn't working.

Harry, I agree she should have checked her radio somewhere but I doubt she could have done it with one at Rabaul. A little history here. On May 29, 1937 there was a massive volcanic eruption at Rabaul that pretty much destroyed the city and the airport. See this reference, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabaul. The rebuilding of the city and the airport was completed by the Japanese some time in 1942.
Woody (former 3316R)
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John Joseph Barrett

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #942 on: February 19, 2012, 12:31:10 PM »

Jeff H- I think plexiglas (perspex) would survive, but I don't think you would be able to see through it. Plexiglas is much easier to scratch than glass is, which is why it comes with a thin plastic film covering it to protect it until you get it home and scratch it yourself ;D. If you've ever seen clear glass from bottles or whatnot on the beach that have spent time in the surf they have been scoured enough by the sand as to become almost frosted in appearance. I think that the plexiglas would do just the same, although in a shorter amount of time. Just my humble opinion.  LTM- John
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #943 on: February 19, 2012, 12:51:22 PM »

Jeff H- I think plexiglas (perspex) would survive, but I don't think you would be able to see through it. Plexiglas is much easier to scratch than glass is, which is why it comes with a thin plastic film covering it to protect it until you get it home and scratch it yourself ;D. If you've ever seen clear glass from bottles or whatnot on the beach that have spent time in the surf they have been scoured enough by the sand as to become almost frosted in appearance. I think that the plexiglas would do just the same, although in a shorter amount of time. Just my humble opinion.  LTM- John
Yes I agree John, should have put 'just barely see through it' instead of 'see through it'. I'll go back and correct it.
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #944 on: February 19, 2012, 01:00:21 PM »

Guys, since the Electra was a "commercial grade" aircraft, the two windshields may have been tempered and or safety glass. I don't know when they started using glass for the windshields or what it would look like after all those years in the surf. Just my thoughts.
Woody (former 3316R)
"the watcher"
 
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