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Author Topic: Still from ROV video  (Read 770510 times)

Irvine John Donald

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2012, 12:12:22 PM »

A queston for all you aircraft types out there.  Would the gear fork have a serial number that could be matched to this object if it is a wheel fork?  TIGHAR has the parts manual for AE's Electra.  How small an item on the Electra would have a serial number? 

It could be a wheel fork but is it one from the Electra?  We know no aircraft crashed on or near Gardner but aircraft parts from a Liberator were found to be used by the natives who brought them from Canton Island.  Could this also be from that bomber?  Seems like recovering that object, if it isn't coral or our imaginations, would be worthwhile.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2012, 01:17:21 PM »

I seriously doubt that any serial number would be legible after 76 years, especially under water. most were on aluminum ID plates, and are probably gone now. Interesting question though, if TIGHAR has the build documents on the Electra as to the parts used to build it. Dont recall that.
If anyone is around an Air Museum with an Electra, I think it would be good to have some pics take from UNDERNEATH the engine/landing gear bay, to see how those parts interfaced. Same goes for the tailwheel---and its connection to the rudder. I know how its done now, but that was 76 years ago.
Tom

Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2012, 03:07:07 PM »

I seriously doubt that any serial number would be legible after 76 years, especially under water. most were on aluminum ID plates, and are probably gone now. Interesting question though, if TIGHAR has the build documents on the Electra as to the parts used to build it. Dont recall that.
If anyone is around an Air Museum with an Electra, I think it would be good to have some pics take from UNDERNEATH the engine/landing gear bay, to see how those parts interfaced. Same goes for the tailwheel---and its connection to the rudder. I know how its done now, but that was 76 years ago.
Tom

Sorry Tom.  I did read in a TIGHAR document that they had the serial numbers.  I will find that info and post unless anyone else knows the answer.  I'm also pretty sure there was some discussion that involved knowing part numbers after the ground loop in Hawaii.  An issue about whether documents were properly updated.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2012, 03:26:40 PM »

Hi Tom

I think this is the answer I had read before that made me think TIGHAR has serial numbers.  It is a reply from Ric in Reply 8 of "Nessie Photo and Emily"

"We have serial numbers for the engines, propeller hubs and propeller blades. There is apparently no surviving record of serial numbers for instruments, radios, gear motor, flap motor, etc."  Thats a shame. But its really only the bigger parts that likely survived anyway.

Ric goes on to say...  "On the other hand, there should be no airplane wreckage of any kind in the water near Nikumaroro unless it's the Electra and all we really need is something that can be conclusively identified as being from a Lockheed 10 (I'd like to hear anyone's theory of how a Model 10 other than c/n 1055 got to Niku)."

That fits in with Jeff's comment on the wheel fork.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2012, 03:36:40 PM »

Shame the GPS coordinates for this location are not available.
Jeff

Is it certain that this sequence was shot after the GPS of the ROV was damaged?  Might it have been shot before that point?  Hmmmmmmmm.
LTM,

Bruce
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Richard C Cooke

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2012, 04:40:37 PM »

The GPS situation for the ROV is unfortunate and could complicate finding this again - that is some kind of 'terrain'.
Is there no estimate from logs of where the ROV was, and how deep it was, when it was shot?

rc
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James G. Stoveken

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2012, 09:38:26 PM »

In a previous discussion Marty had posted a link to photos he took while doing research in New Zealand.  There are some excellent pictures of an Electra's main gear. 


Jim Stoveken
 
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2012, 10:13:18 PM »

Awesome post James!! I had missed the pics that Marty took in NZ of the Electra. I found the main gear attachment under the engine nacelle VERY enlightening. But---not wanting to put too much hope into the video pic, but if you compare it to pic 7 of 13 of Marty's album, it certainly looks like the main gear of a Electra to me.
I was also amazed by the submerged coral reef in the video. We know what coral does to humans when you step or fall on it. Imagine an aluminum skinned airframe being pounded by wave action against it, then dragged by the currents on it. The skin didnt stand a chance. The reef would have opened it up like a can opener. But, as it was shedding the skin, perhaps heavier parts of the engine mounts, or fuselage were caught and hug up on the reef for a period of time.
Just for giggles: anyone want to bet that the position of the "target" in the video is close to the area of Nessie, and after it was dislodged from the surface, it was captured in a subsurface reef trench that we can now see in the video?
I think we all can agree that there is an anomoly there. That in itself is nt a reason to return, but it sure does present a good argument as to an airplane being on Nikumarro. The only one we know of was AE's 10E Electra.
Tom
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2012, 06:28:28 AM »

Ok --wishful thinking on my part--but try this. invert the pic 180*. Without knowing the distance from the ROV to the target, it 'could' it possibly be a main strut and the black 'rope' is the Aeroquip 303 brake hose that runs along the gear to the brakes.
Tom

Tom, I am going through the video frame by frame at the moment from various angles, 90, 180 etc... To see if any other anomalies can be pinpointed. Sometimes it works as objects don't always conform to the human preference of seeing things from a horizontal upright position. That's usually how they escape detection, by being in a position that is alien to normal methods of human recognition, but they're there.
Jeff

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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2012, 07:03:50 AM »

Jeff---let us know what you see----I tried that couldn't make it stop with enough clarity to firure out what it might be.
Tom
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2012, 07:27:12 AM »





We are an echo of the past


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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2012, 07:33:36 AM »

Jeff---let us know what you see----I tried that couldn't make it stop with enough clarity to firure out what it might be.
Tom

Yes, it's not easy Tom. A combination of factors combine to make it difficult, the motion of the ROV, YouTube quality video, PC speed etc... It's a struggle to find a frame that's going to be clean enough to enhance but, there's a lot of them!
There's something of interest about 18.5 inches from the first anomaly which I will try to enhance today and post. Not being a structural engineer I can only guess as to what it, or they, could be so any suggestions would be great.
The reef shelf that anomaly1 is resting on is, as theorised by Tighar, a collection point for junk falling down the reef slope. So I would hope and expect to find more anomalies in this area. Bearing in mind that there is a number of years of coral residue sitting on top of whatever is there, unless of course it arrived there more recently.
Jeff




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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2012, 08:13:20 AM »

great pic Richie---as you can see there is ALOT of plumbing aroung the gear bay and the engine nacelle. The brake hose is clearly visible, and is pretty long to accomodate the strut extension. One thing to keep in mind about the hose, if it is in fact Aeroquip 303 or an earlier variation: you have the black outer cover with is generally a woven cloth/textile braid. under than is a STEEL braid reinforcement (not stainless), with a cloth fiber reinforcement barrier, then the hose liner, which is rubber or neoprene. I actually DONT know what was on the Electra, so i'm going to theorize here a minute. Having been submerged in the ocean for 76 years, the cloth other cover has desinegrated, as well as the steel reinforcement, leaving the cloth barrier and the rubber liner. If you have just the rubber liner which would be about .350 OD and .188 ID (by todays standards), it may appear to be a 'squiggly' piece of hose like we see in the video.
Tom
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2012, 08:26:08 AM »

UPDATE---it isnt Aeroquip 303 or derivitive---aeroquip didnt become a company until 1939. I'll continue the search! But--same theory applies.
Tom
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2012, 09:30:54 AM »

Ok, as promised here's another still from the reef shelf. It's about 18.5 inches from the first anomaly. We are inverted 180 degrees as you can see from the ROV video clock. There is one picture without any hints and another with.

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