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Author Topic: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B  (Read 43866 times)

Chris Johnson

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2014, 08:00:47 AM »

I beleive it is often refered to as Bamboo.
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JNev

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2014, 08:15:41 AM »

I beleive it is often refered to as Bamboo.

As I looked at this it seemed to be, and now I recall what you say - yes, believe it was.

Therefore, if the wood fibers evident in the gidgy screw are not bamboo, we may have a dead-end on the schtick, as it were.  But it was a cool idea.

What kind of wood are sextant cases typically made of? 

I'm sure there may have been variants, but is there a predominant type?  Are there only a very few types that would have been used? 

Can the fibers in the screw threads be identified as to type? 

Can trace elements of 'other stuff' in the wood fibers be determined, i.e. are there elements of stuff used in plywood, or would these have been screwed into a solid piece of wood perhaps?
- Jeff Neville

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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2014, 09:36:43 AM »

Typically it was referred to as a 'fishing pole'. I guess that is an American term for a 'fishing rod'. In the 1930's these were invariably made from wood called split cane, very durable and tough. I used to own one which I used for carp fishing and it comfortably managed to handle 30+ pound carp without any problems.
This must be the place
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2014, 09:55:15 AM »

These are all questions that can probably be answered but, to invoke Fowler's Maxim, "Questions are cheap.  Answers are expensive." 
In the absence of unlimited funding we're always having to ask ourselves, "Is it worth the cost of finding out?" 
Let's say we were able to identify the material that is stuck in the threads.  If it is bamboo that would be interesting. (Bamboo is not wood.  It's a grass.) If it's the same kind of wood that Brandis sextant boxes are made from that would also be interesting. But would either finding move the investigation forward?  Yes, a little bit. Enough to justify the cost in time and money?  Probably not.

These photos show the putative wood jammed in the threads of the one screw.  Not much to go on.
Another interesting observation:  The slots on the screws show damage from tightening.  Somebody really honked down on them.
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JNev

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2014, 10:05:16 AM »

Good points.

Is that old silver paint on these, or just a slight illusion suggesting that?
- Jeff Neville

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2014, 11:11:40 AM »

Good points.

Is that old silver paint on these, or just a slight illusion suggesting that?

I don't see any indication of paint.  They seem to be bare metal with dirt on them in places.
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2014, 12:23:17 PM »

There appears to be a filament caught under the screw of the smaller one. In "screw-heads" image attached to this post
How soon after discovery was that picture taken?
3971R
 
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 12:26:08 PM by Greg Daspit »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2014, 12:35:20 PM »

How soon after discovery was that picture taken?

About 13 years. That's a scan I did this morning.
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Tim Collins

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2014, 06:38:31 AM »

Do I see remnants of solder on the more round one?  Suggestive of having wire attached to it at some point?

Re having seen this kind of stuff all over the place: I as well could say that, as I'm sure many could. Looks just like something I remember seeing, or rather more to the point, would have seen, in the boxes and piles of miscellaneous crap on my dad's work bench when I was growing up. There's just something so familiar about them.   
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JNev

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2014, 05:58:00 AM »

There appears to be a filament caught under the screw of the smaller one. In "screw-heads" image attached to this post
How soon after discovery was that picture taken?

Not sure about significance of filiment (whether original to the find or something picked-up along the way), but as to the 'eye' effect on the smaller, open holes (both parts exhibit this) - this is an effect of hand-drilling with a power tool.  I commented on this feature some time ago regarding these parts.

When hand-drilling with a high-speed bit it is common to get 'chatter' - a rapid oscillation of the drill bit tip as it begins to purchase into the material.  As the hole deepens the bit tip tends to stabilize and the end result is the mostly round hole we see that goes all the way through.

Having done a good bit of hand-drilling on small pieces that are also hand-held with grips (or a vice if one has it handy enough, but not always near when needed) these parts appear to me to have been drilled with a power tool (how much of that was happening on Gardner?).  Further, this appears to have been done 'on the fly', i.e. someone needed an improvised 'gidgy' for some reason and roughed these out very nicely but in quick fashion on a limited workbench, if not plane-side.  The teeth could easily be produced with a common bastard file of some fairness - the apex of the notches is not acute beyond 90 degrees.

These don't seem like they were produced on Gardner for at least some of these reasons.  There are examples of things that were apparently done on Gardner, like a metal comb, etc.  Maybe some of the tooling marks among these things can be compared to determine more about possible cottage-origins for the 'gidgies' on Niku, or not, but my strong suspicion is they were not made there. 

So, IMO - not only are these made of aviation-grade material (wood screws excepted), they bear the marks of aviation hand-work including hand-drilling with a high-speed bit in a power drill.
- Jeff Neville

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JNev

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2014, 06:11:27 AM »

Do I see remnants of solder on the more round one?  Suggestive of having wire attached to it at some point?

Re having seen this kind of stuff all over the place: I as well could say that, as I'm sure many could. Looks just like something I remember seeing, or rather more to the point, would have seen, in the boxes and piles of miscellaneous crap on my dad's work bench when I was growing up. There's just something so familiar about them.   

Sharp observation, Tim. 

What you refer to as 'remnants of solder' was part of what suggested 'paint' to me - it does look like some material caked-onto the surface and not migrated metal from rough handling. 

As to solder - I don't think aluminum alloys accept solder tinning well - one wouldn't solder to aluminum in my experience.  The norm is to use some mechanical means to bond to aluminum.

As to 'commonality' - having wracked my own small brain for 'where I've seen these before' all I can add is that I too have more than one junk box chock full of 'useful odds and ends' that seldom find true life again, but lie dusty in a bin somewhere.  Those kinds of things are irresistible to the mechanically-minded: once we've had to improvise a few things along the way we learn to hoard 'useful little things' as we can imagine all sorts of useful applications - and tend to remember the pain and time spent to fabricate some special little widget to fix some need. 

I've got some old rusty anti-rotation flap roller lock tabs among my stuff that are similar - discarded when new rollers installed on some transport many years ago.  The new rollers always came with fresh lock tabs - the big hole is 'keyed' to lock the roller shaft from rotation, and the extended tab has a small hole for safety wire.  On quick examination, not the 'same thing', but close in concept.  Hence I believe the memory of many little gidgies along the way crawl to the fore as we rifle our memories and imaginations for 'what these are'.

They remain mysterious to me - but clearly hand-fashioned by someone with some aviation grade skills and tools: attention was paid to edge distance, radii and uniform teeth-cutting, de-burring is evident and the tool marks, including drill chatter consistent with high-speed bit, etc., all suggest quick but good hand-work by a good smith on a somewhat limited bench.
- Jeff Neville

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Roger London

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2014, 06:56:15 AM »

Did these two artifacts come, separately, from the Norwich City whilst attached to broken timber? Blown across the lagoon to run aground at the far side. Amelie saw a use and retrieved them.

Therefore its a question of where were they used on a freighter? There are many possibilities. Laundry and drying equipment, or galley crockery/utensil/equipment storage racking? Early 1900s vessels used a lot of timber raking, drawers, shelves, etc all made with rough-weather features/securings.
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John Ousterhout

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2014, 08:14:05 AM »

The oval gidgie appears to my eyes to have a faint "star" outline, just visible centered on the screw-hole and continuing the same tooth pitch as the teeth filed into the edge.  Is this just my imagination, or do others see the same thing?  If it's a real mark, it means something with that shape was held against the aluminum surface but didn't leave indentations.  What does that imply?  A modern star-washer would have left indentations, and actually has a different shape.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2014, 08:36:33 AM »

Has anyone noticed that the other hole in each peice dosn't have evidence (to me) of having anything screwed through it whereas the holes with the screws in them have what looks like wear from the screw being turned?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2014, 08:40:55 AM »

Has anyone noticed that the other hole in each peice dosn't have evidence (to me) of having anything screwed through it whereas the holes with the screws in them have what looks like wear from the screw being turned?

Yes.  I've long thought that the second hole was for a removable pin that may have been used to lock the device in place.
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