Date:         Tue, 3 Jul 2007 09:40:35
From:         Ted Campbell
Subject:      Progress report

Are you guys ready to go?  Any last minute changes in schedule, on
site plans, etc.?

Keep us posted.

Good luck to all.

Ted

****************************

Almost ready. No schedule changes. Yesterday and today we are
shipping all the gear out. (Gee! we do still have a floor!) Ric
leaves Delaware July 11; the team leaves LAX the night of July 12.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:18:52
From:         Marcus Lind
Subject:      Earhart's poetry

   Here's  interesting article about AE's unpublished poetry -
revealing her "internal spiritual world"...  the article is written
by Dr. Sammie Morris from Purdue University, who is a Curator of the
AE Collection there:

http://docs. lib.purdue. edu/cgi/viewcont ent.cgi?article=1031&context=lib_ research

  ...Greetings to all the American Forum Colleagues for the US
Independence Day - happy July 4th!
     Kind regards - LTM, Marcus Lind

=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:21:18
From:         Monty Fowler
Subject:      How's the $$$ situation?

... besides the inevitable, "Not enough"? I realize that thoughts about
funding have been set aside for the moment because the expedition is
leaving in a matter of days, but some indication of where we are, when
you have the time, would be appreciated.

And is the Naval Institute Press planning any kind of a special tie-in
promotion? Might help boost sales.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, No, 2189CE

**********************************************

Donations always welcome... but the boat charter is paid and the
tickets are paid and the credit card is not groaning. A mail piece is
going out Friday. We should be getting daily AP coverage during the
time the team is at the island.

gotta run.... film at 11.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Jul 2007 22:10:28
From:         Jim Preston
Subject:      Re: How's the $$$ situation

Will updates be available on both Tighar's and The Naval
Institute's websites ?

****************************************

No, TIGHAR and AP are covering this.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:05:43
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      AP Story on Ric's interview

Richard Pyle's AP article on the expedition appears online at:

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/new-search-begins-for-amelia-earhart/
20070712163609990001

Also a good video and interview with Ric included.  Pat, it looks as
though you
have the home page all set up for reports...

LTM, who is also eagerly awaiting.

Rick J, #2751
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 15 Jul 2007 12:26:34
From:         Tom Byers
Subject:      Re: AP Story

I recommend reading "Finding Amelia: The True Story of the Earhart
Disappearance" by Ric Gillespie. I was pleasantly surprised to see it
at the Ft Sam Houston PX in San Antonio, TX.

It even includes a DVD.

Tom Byers

======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 15 Jul 2007 12:28:21
From:         Pat
Subject:      Dailies in progress

I am putting up daily reports, but there isn't much to say yet --
high seas, everybody pretty subdued. Check out the new Grid Maps
available now.

http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/NikuV/dailies.html
http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/NikuV/gridmapset.html

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:23:47
From:         Dennis Mcgee
Subject:      Yikes!

The stern shot of the Nai'a that you have on the daily updates page
make the boat look a bit top heavy in comparison to her beam.  Yes, I
know absolutely squadush about shipbuilding, but I do know that if
you get too heavy on top you fall over whether on land or at sea.  I
have every confidence that she is completely sea worthy, but
nonetheless, she looks like a good wave would roll her right over.

LTM, who has leaned to port a few times also
Dennis O. McGee #0149EC

***************************

Nai'a is a motor sailer and has a LOT of structure below the water
line. Actually a very stable boat and brought us through two
hurricanes in 1997 with flying colors. We owe her a lot.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:32:57
From:         Ted Campbell
Subject:      Re: Yikes!

Thanks for keeping us updated.

A question: Are the coconut crabs any good to eat?  They are a nasty
looking lot.

Ted
*********************************************

Yes, they are excellent to eat, to the extent that they are now
gravely endangered. No one is allowed to touch them.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:36:27
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Sea state

For those who follow that sort of thing, here is a good forecast for wave
height in the Pacific.  It looks like they're probably experiencing 5-12 foot
seas.  Not too great for landlubbers in a 30 meter boat.  It looks to be getting
better though.

LTM who thinks they should row faster.

Rick J #2751

https://www.fnmoc.navy.mil/CGI/ww3_loop.cgi?
color=b&area=spac&prod=sig_wav_ht

**************************************

Rick, I couldn't get the animation to load.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:57:28
From:         Karen Hoy
Subject:      Re: Sea state

I got a page saying there's something wrong with the site's "security
certificate" but I clicked "Continue to website anyway" and it seemed
to work.

LTM, who hopes the Anti-Vert is working.

Karen #2610CE

> From Rick Jones
>
> https://www.fnmoc.navy.mil/CGI/ww3_loop.cgi?
> color=b&area=spac&prod=sig_wav_ht
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:23:03
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Re: Sea state

Yes, Karen, this is a US Navy site that doesn't bother with Microsoft
certification, I gather.  Pat, try to paste the second half of the link to
the first half in the address bar.  If that doesn't work, a menu page is at:

https://www.fnmoc.navy.mil/PUBLIC/WW3/index.html

and you can go from there.  I had selected "South Pacific" (but you still may
have to "accept" the uncertified site).

Rick J

*****************************************

Cool. Loaded this time. Makes my face turn green just thinking about it.

P
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:50:00
From:         Dennis Mcgee
Subject:      Wave action

>From Rick Jones
>https://www.fnmoc.navy.mil/CGI/ww3_loop.cgi?

Thanks, Rick.  I see the Ozzies are getting hammered pretty good by
all those really big waves.  Is this normal for this time of year or
can it be blamed on our favorite boogie man, global warming.

LTM, who prefers high fives to high waves
Dennis O. McGee 0149EC
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:00:01
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Re: Wave action

Dennis, I'm no authority, but it seems to be a seasonal phenomenon in the
higher Southern latitudes this time of year.  You can certainly see why
mariners fear the Tasmanian Sea and Cape Horn passages, though. If you
follow these charts over a period of time, you will see the Southern storms
abate and the North Atlantic will become active in the N Hemisphere's Winter
months.

Pat, thank you for passing along the team's Lat and Long.  Until the grid
charts arrive, I am enjoying following their progress by plotting it on Google
Earth.  I wonder if the team knows how many of us are vicariously right there
with them.
Rick J
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:35:08
From:         Tom Hickcox
Subject:      Re: Yikes!

> From: Ted Campbell
>
> Thanks for keeping us updated.
>
> A question: Are the coconut crabs any good to eat?  They are a nasty
> looking lot.
>
> Ted
> *********************************************
>
> Yes, they are excellent to eat, to the extent that they are now
> gravely endangered. No one is allowed to touch them.
>

Having lived in South Louisiana for forty years [I don't count the
fifteen years in Shreveport.], I have been meaning to ask that question.

Are the crabs prepared much as they would be in crab consuming areas
in the U.S.?

Tom Hickcox, Baton Rouge

*************************************

No, more like lobster -- lemon and drawn butter.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:04:24
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Grid maps

I wanted to mention how pleased I was with the Grid Maps published by
TIGHAR.  Fed Ex dropped them off yesterday and the resolution of the new
chart is spectacular; and this is the first time I have seen the aerials of the
village--these are awesome.  Sounds as though the teams are off to a fast
start on their projects.
Rick J #2751

*******************************

Thanks, Rick. Maps available NOW. They will go out FedEx the same day
if I get your order by 4 p.m. EDT. Got stacks of 'em sittin' here!

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:20:29
From:         Skeet Gifford
Subject:      C-45

A 1951 C-45 attached to the Commemorative Air Force crashed yesterday
near Denver and was totally destroyed by fire. Both pilots escaped
the aircraft. The aircraft bore the insignia of 1919-1940, Star-in-
Circle and alternating stripes on the rudder.

In reporting the accident, a television reporter stated (with a
straight face) that the CAF was "...dedicated to preserving vintage
aircraft."
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:56:06
From:         Pat
Subject:      Daily progress reports

Just a reminder to everyone: Daily Reports on Niku V are being posted
on the TIGHAR website every day before noon EDT. You can find them at

http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/NikuV/dailies.html (the first week)

and

http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/NikuV/dailies2.html (the current week)

We also have the Grid Map set which is fairly important for keeping
track of where they're going and what they're doing.

http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/NikuV/gridmapset.html

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:38:25
From:         Ted Campbell
Subject:      Re: Daily  progress reports

Pat, does the Niku V group have the capability to send you photos of
their progress?  If so can you post them (or ID them as 7/2007) on
the web.

Thanks for the hard work on your end during this period.
Ted

********************************

No. Satellite coverage is insufficient.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:47:46
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Re: Progress reports

Really appreciate your detailed reports, Pat.  I missed what the "G" feature is.
Was that the "G" item on the village map?  I am also wondering if anything
showed up at the "arrowhead" near the 7 site.  Any mention of the kite
camera, or was that eliminated?  Sounds as though the conditions are
brutal...I hope the team will be able to recover with an ice cold can of Fosters
at some point.  If a TIGHAR headgear develops as part of the "uniform" of Niku
V, let's put a logo on it and sell it.  If I can't be there, I want to at least
pretend.

LTM, who thinks the crashed and sank-ers may have a cooler place to work.

Rick J #2751

***************************************

No, it was a place at the 7 site where white coral had been brought
from the beach and arranged in a pattern that looked vaguely like a G.

No discussion of the kite, I will ask tonight.

We do have TIGHAR caps with an embroidered logo <G>.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:49:46
From:         Pat
Subject:      Associated press updates

Here is the link to the AP updates, some of which are cribbed from
the TIGHAR updates and some of which are original and most of which
are a combination of the two.

http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_national/earhart_search/
index.html

Very cool graphics.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:07:40
From:         Mike Piner
Subject:      The G feature

Sounds like the members at Niku are WORKING Hard, in a tough
environment.  They need the Applause from us who are spectators.  Has
anyone thought already that the "G" could have been for Gallagher?
       Has the Kite photography been working out?

*************************************

Gallagher-- highly unlikely, but possible I suppose.

They were trying to get some photos of the boat yesterday but there
was too much wind. They'll try again today, and also over the Seven
Site.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:08:44
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      1938 Photo of Seven Site

While working with proportional dividers to relocate the "arrowhead" from the
original photo to Digital Globe's sat photo, I noticed on the 1938 photo a
feature in the water that was cut off in the printed version (the one in the
daily shows more area).  It is a "+" shaped feature under the water and on an
extended line from the top of the 7 across the sand and into the water--
almost at the upper right edge of the photo in the daily.  I then recalled a
discussion of a discoloration of the reef in this same area. ("A View to the
Sea", and April 1939 photo).  It appears that over time, the "beach" has
migrated seaward, and this area could be under the current sand, or at any
rate closer to shore.  Would it be worth a quick check with the metal
detector?  It may be just a coral head or shadow, but no better time then
now to check it out.

Rick J #2751

***********************************

That entire shore has been gone over extensively with metal detectors.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:59:07
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      July 26 report

The team's yeoman's effort seems to be producing dividends beyond even our
highest expectations. What great news!  As for the "wheel of fortune", was it
located--or were the artifacts found just in the vicinity of where the wheel is
thought to be?

When (if) the "arrowhead" area is located, I'm curious if it will resemble an
above-ground burial site...a make-do effort at burial by someone without
digging tools and later disturbed by predators, etc.

LTM, who is very proud.

Rick J

*************************

The WOF was not found. This is just in the vicinity.

P
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:59:36
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Wheel of Fortune

In the last update (26 July), the wording is ambiguous as to the Wheel of
Fortune.  I presume Rick meant that the parts were found in the general area
that was reported for the elusive Wheel of Fortune, rather than the parts
were found along with the elusive Wheel of Fortune.

Sounds like great progress is being made, particularly with machined quality
parts with identifiers on them!
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:22:06
From:         Pat
Subject:      Part number


So we have a part number for research:

4B 8748 JBCO

This piece is bronze. There was quite a bit of bronze stuff in the
landing gear of Electras.

Have at it.....

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:58:14
From:         Craig Fuller
Subject:      Re: Part number

Checking my parts prefix database of primary prefixes, 4 + a Letter is
the prefix for a Lockheed C-5, but I think we can safely rule it out as
I don't think any crashed on Nuku! (Please note that the database is
primarily just military aircraft)

I checked my B-24 parts manual knowing that a number of the parts
previously found on the island were B-24/PB4Y. There were no part
numbers close to it in the B-24 manual (good thing), but I also looked
at my B-17 parts manual. There were half a dozen slightly similar
numbers (40B629-6-024) and they were all for clips or component s in
hydraulic cylinders. Usually when a part number prefix differs from the
primary part number prefix it comes from a subcontractor-- like a
hydraulic company-- but the manual did not indicate if that was the
case.

Craig Fuller
AAIR Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
www.AviationArchaeology.com
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:40:57
From:         Reed Riddle
Subject:      Re: Part number

One thing to consider.....the landing gear was repaired, so it is
possible that non-original parts were used.  Not likely, since it
would be expected that Lockheed would use the same parts as in the
original gear, but possible.  We really need a list of Lockheed
Electra parts to do this...anyone have one handy?

					Reed

******************************************

We have a Maintenance Parts Catalog, but it doesn't include numbers
for the Goodyear Airwheel, and we don't have a parts catalog for the
Airwheel. Of course.

There seems to be some indication that this is a part for an
airplane, a bearing sleeve. Standing by for more info....

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:50:32
From:         Craig Fuller
Subject:      Re: Part number

When you talk to them next could you get an idea of size and shape?

Craig Fuller
AAIR Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
www.AviationArchaeology.

********************

Oh, sorry. A cylinder, about 3 inches long, diameter 1.75 inches,
bronze, part number stamped on exterior, small hole (not all the way
through) in the middle; four of them.

P
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:33:04
From:         Mike Piner
Subject:      Re: Parts

I'm thinking of that picture of an airplane all mangled up , and now
we are finding parts on a beach near a village.  I can envision
people taking things apart and dropping nuts, bolts, and small parts
in order to get larger pieces to haul away, like salvagers, who could
be anyone from anywhere.  It is reminicent of why nothing large was
found of Nungesser and Coli.  I know this conjecture, but the nuts
probably were not take off by natives,  I have a tough time doing my
crude mechanics work without the proper tools.  Airplane nuts and
bolts have a tighter tollerance than SAE Bolts.  That picture of the
Aircraft floated around, and any one could have seen it during the
years before Tighar's interest began.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:33:28
From:         Craig Fuller
Subject:      Re: Part number

Could it be a part from an engine?
I checked my R1340 and R1820 parts manuals and nothing was close, but
they were both from the 1960s. I do not have an R1830 (B-24 engine)
manual.

Craig Fuller
AAIR Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
www.AviationArchaeology.com
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:27:48
From:         Alan Caldwell
Subject:      Re: Part number

Craig, I ran the part number and Google came up with an almost
identical number. The four letters at the end were different. It was
part of a switch for a motor. One of the references was Lockheed but
that turned up nothing.

Alan
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:28:45
From:         Alan Caldwell
Subject:      Re: Part number

Craig, as an after thought you might check landing gear or flap
motors is applicable or some other motor in the plane.

Alan
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:29:35
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Re: Part number

Inquiry to Deer Park, WA, Discount Aircraft Parts (Salvager, largest operation
in NW US).  No luck.

Inquiry by fax to Lockheed Martin Logistics Service, Legacy Aircraft section,
Greenville, SC.  No reply yet.

FYI:  Goodyear Wheel 6HBA, Struts are Aerol  SP400E, from 5-19-37
inspection (after repair)

Rick J # 2751
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:38:59
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Re: Part number

Without the JBCO suffix, it does seem to strongly correlate with an
aircraft related part:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=4B8748&btnG=Search&meta=

and with "lockheed" as an additional search term...

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=4B8748+lockheed&btnG=Search&meta=
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 20:42:29
From:         Dennis Mcgee
Subject:      Brake parts?

Pat T. said:  "A cylinder, about 3 inches long, diameter 1.75
inches,  bronze, part number stamped on exterior, small hole (not all
the way  through) in the middle; four of them."

The description sounds like a brake cylinder for a set of drum brakes.
If you're familiar with hydraulic drum braking systems which were
standard equipment on cars from the 40s to the 70s, the object you
describe fits pretty well.  Hydraulic brakes work when hydraulic
fluid is pumped to each wheel when you depress the brake pedal.  At
each wheel is a wheel cylinder containing a single piston.  The fluid
enters the cylinder and pushes the piston forward, the end of which
to attached to the brake pads.  The pads move outward and rub against
the inside of the brake drum, creating friction and helping you to stop.
Whether or not the Electra had drum brakes or disc brakes (similar
but different) I don't know, but if they were drum brakes that part
would fit the bill.

LTM, an aspiring grease monkey
Dennis O. McGee #0149EC

***************************

The Goodyear Airwheel was equipped with disc brakes. The rotating
discs were bronze.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 20:44:42
From:         Don Setser
Subject:      Re: Part number

This Aircraft Parts website lists a NSN 3120-00-368-5549 Sleeve
Bearing, and it's Mfg. Part Number  is 4B8748 (without the JBCO).
Maybe JBCO is some kind of manufacturer identification.

If anyone on the forum has access to a National Stock Number
specification source, maybe they could research this number to see if
the specifications match the artifact that was found.

Don Setser

************************************

Don Iwanski has been pursuing this with some success, but no hard
I.D. yet.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:09:07
From:         Kerry Tiller
Subject:      Re: part number

It sounds like some of you guys are getting close with your part
number research. If any of you doing the hard research thinks it
might be useful to look at a specific part or parts that would be the
same or similar on a Lockheed 10A, let me know. I'm pretty sure I can
get close-up inspection/crawling permission from the Pima Air Museum
to examine their 10A. Partial disassembly would take some
coordination and possibly an official request from TIGHAR, but is not
out of the realm of possibility.

Kerry Tiller
Tucson
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:52:01
From:         Ree Riddle
Subject:      Re: Part number

I found the following two websites, which might help in finding out
what this part is.

http://www.wbparts.com/rfq/3120-00-368-5549.html
http://www.partslogistics.com/demo/search-nsn-3120003685549-4B8748.html

					Reed
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:52:31
From:         Jon Watson
Subject:      Re: Part number

JBCO sounds to me like it might be an abbreviation for J(something) Bearing
COmpany. Or maybe J (something) Bushing COmpany, or maybe J (something)
Bronze COmpany.

Interesting.

Does the part appear to be cast bronze, or sintered? What is the diameter of
the hole? How deep is the hole? Is it (the hole) tapered? Threaded? Sounds
like the sort of thing the end of a shaft might ride in, when there's no
need for it to protrude out the other side. Any specific evidence of wear,
inside or out? Any flat spots on the outside where a set screw or key might
ride? Any evidence of a flange?

I can't wait to see pictures.

Ltm
Jon
2266
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sat, 28 Jul 2007 11:03:21
From:         Ron Bright
Subject:      Re: Part number


Would this be a type of part that would be on the restored 10E that
Grace McGuire has , now located i believe on the West Coast. She
rummaged around for parts the past 20 years or so.
The trick would be to contact her about that stuff.
Ron Bright

****************************************

I don't know, Ron. Early days yet.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sat, 28 Jul 2007 11:04:04
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: part number

JBCO Inc Birmingham 35203
Phone:(205) 328-1501

Cheers,
Th' Wombat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sat, 28 Jul 2007 11:05:20
From:         Don Iwanski
Subject:      Re: Part number

Here is what I found today regarding the part number:

National Stock Number -
3120-00-368-5549
   3120
   00-368-5549
   BEARING, SLEEVE
   13205

I was able to contact Caterpillar but the local parts office was no
help.  The national distributor's parts center would not help because
I was not a dealer.  I have a contact phone number which I have to
call back on Monday.

I then called Lockheed Greenville, some contact phone numbers I had
on file.  No luck.  Just try and get someone at LMCO on a Friday
afternoon!

Next I called Dutch Valley, who is a major distributor of Lockheed
Martin Parts.  The part number was on file with them 4B8748, however,
it was marked as OBSOLETE.  I asked them what type aircraft it
applied to and they did not have that information.  They did not have
an alternate part number either.  It was listed as a Sleeve Bearing.
No other information given. (Dutch Valley is Lockheed Martins prime
distributor)

I then tried calling Goodyear, no luck.  So I tried Aviall, who is
another major parts distributor for Goodyear.  Aviall had the same
information, the part number was marked OBSOLETE, no type aicraft
given, no alternative part number.

I found it interesting that two major aircraft suppliers had this
part number listed in their system.

Looking again at the Cage Code, the only manufacture given for the
4B8748 part number is Caterpillar.

It could be a Caterpillar part.  Except my local Caterpillar parts
dealer could not identify it as a Caterpillar part.  He couldn't tell
me when it went or how to get one.

If the sleeve bearing is a sub-component of a larger component, then
the Lockheed Maintenance Manual for the aircraft would probably not
list it.  However, the Components Maintenance Manual for the Landing
Gear should.  Sub-components can be made and purchased from just
about anywhere as long as they are made per a drawing.  Made per a
drawing, a small company could make them for a manufacture, for
instance, a landing gear manufacture, and the landing gear
manufacture can deem them airworthy and use them on their
installation as long as it is on a drawing.

My thoughts are, somone at sometime was in need of a bearing with
this part number and was unable to find one.  They found a similar
one at Caterpillar.  Caterpillar was able to take the drawing and
either match it to an existing bearing or had the capabilites of
making it.  During the process, Caterpillar was listed in the CAGE
code as a manufacture of this bearing, and if anyone in the future
needs one, they can go to Caterpillar and get one.

Again, it could be a Caterpillar part.  (When did they have
Caterpillar's on Gardner?)

I would not absolutley rule out a Sleeve Bearing for an aircraft
landing gear assembly no longer in production.  Two major suppliers
for aircraft parts had the part number in their system marked OBSOLETE.

I have a couple more leads which I have to wait until Monday to
persue. Pretty interesting parts Ric found there.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sat, 28 Jul 2007 11:05:49
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Re: Part number

Our part number seems to consistently cross reference to Federal Stock
Number (FSN) and the later National Stock Number (NSN) as a bearing of some
sort.  On that premise, I queried the American Bearing Manufacturer's
Association (http://www.abma-dc.org/) to see if we could get more
information on who the manufacturer might be.
I have also tried searches using other search engines like Yahoo and MSN, but
Google seems to return the most hits.  I did run into a government site that
offers subscriptions to their data base--the cheapest was $25 for 3 days--
that we could try when we get a little close.
Rick J
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:57:47
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Re: Part number

A "bulldozer" was included in the Coast Guard's construction equipment in
1944, but I saw no mention of its brand.  It appears it was removed after the
Loran station construction was complete.

  From "The Coast Guard at War, Loran, Volume II":

" the landing was made three and one half miles from the site on the south
side of the island at a point where the surf seemed the least hazardous. The
bulldozer was taken ashore on the first load, and with this the work began."

"With Gardner Island station operating properly, and construction completed,
the SPICEWOOD removed the construction personnel and equipment on 14
October, leaving the station in the hands of the manning unit, with Ensign
Charles Sopko as commanding officer."

http://www.uscg.mil/history/STATIONS/loran_volume_2.html

Rick J
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sat, 28 Jul 2007 14:40:42
From:         Bob Lee
Subject:      Re: Brake parts?

The wildest guess -- part of a journal bearing?

Bob

********************

What's a journal bearing? According to the part number as cross-
referenced through MCRD it's something called a sleeve bearing.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:47:12
From:         Don Iwanski
Subject:      Re: Parts

> From Bob Lee
>
> The wildest guess -- part of a journal bearing?
>
> Bob
>
> ********************
>
> What's a journal bearing? According to the part number as cross-
> referenced through MCRD it's something called a sleeve bearing.
>
> Pat

Not part of one, the whole journal (aka sleeve) bearing.  It's
the same thing.

************************************************************************
Sleeve bearings, also called journal or plain bearings, are used to
constrain, guide or reduce friction in rotary or linear applications.
These bearings don't roll like balls or rollers but slide. They
require proper lubrication to reduce friction and consequently wear.
Sleeve bearings are most commonly used in computing peripherals.

The material for the sleeve bearings can be bronze, beryllium copper
or other similar hard metals that are pressed into porous forms by
powder metallurgy. They are in the form of thick cylinders saturated
with oil. They are low friction bearings used for heavy load
applications.

Sleeve bearings operate on the principle that the rod fitting within
the shaft rests upon a very thin layer of lubricant. The rod must not
make any contact with the sleeve and operate silently. Lubrication in
this type is essential or else the sleeve will wear away in no time.
The plain bearings may fail due to wear, evaporation of the lubricant
or the absence or thickening of the lubricant.
************************************************************************

http://www.yashtrading.com/products.htm
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:57:37
From:         Ron Bright
Subject:      Re: Parts

   In a letter from Lockheed Corp, Burbank, Ca in 1985 the maintenance
and repair manuals, and illustrated parts manual for a Lockheed 10E,
were available for $350 dollars.It was some 425 pages.

This was a request from a Thomas Pajak, A&P Mechanic, then at Rumson,
New Jersey.

He may be an excellent resource if he is still around in attempting
to identify this part, if it is connected to a Lockheed.

Ron Bright
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:58:01
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Bearing

Pat T said:  "What's a journal bearing?"

That would be a bearing that supports the crankshaft on a
reciprocating piston engine.  Depending on the number of pistons the
engine could have one or several bearings supporting the crankshaft.

LTM, who is excited over this latest find
Dennis McGee #0149EC
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 08:16:00
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Springfield .303

I wouldn't be too hasty to attribute that Springfield cartridge to
the kiwis' survey party, since an American variant was apparently
manufactured by Remington and issued to GIs during the 1939-45 war.

http://www.pacificghosts.com/guadalcanal/weapons/usmc/springfield.html
http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/dbrifle.htm
http://www.african-hunter.com/303_rifle.htm

Moreover, as I recall, when members of the NZ survey party tried to
walk around the circumference of the island it took far longer than
they thought it would, the sun was hotter, they ran low on water and
(again, relying on my memory), by the time they got to the 7 site
they were likely getting rather worried about making it back to
Nutiran and not in much of a mood to loiter about.

So I'd be wary then and confirm some things before making many
assumptions, since

a) It seems more than possible that Sopko's coasties may have had a
Springfield M1903A3 rifle to shoot off at the 7 site and

b) The kiwis may have been rather spooked, hot and thirsty by the
time they reached what we now call the 7 site and only scurried by.

As for the bronze bearing sleeve (4B 8748 JBCO) which has turned up
at the site of the carpenter's shop, it does appear to be strongly
related either to an aircraft or, oddly enough, a Caterpillar
(construction and earth moving equipment). We know of at least one
bulldozer having briefly been on Gardner late in the war when the
LORAN master station was set up and it could easily have been a
"cat," as I've heard they called them back then. There was also a US
made Dodge utility truck on the island for at least a year.

LTM

*****************************************

Thanks, I will pass this along.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 08:16:36
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: Springfield

On the expedition report on TIGHAR website for 27th July there's a
mention that:
"A Springfield .303 cartridge was found at an 18cm depth (about 7
inches, very deep for this area). This is a British-made round which
must have been left by the New Zealand survey."

The Springfield is a US weapon.  I'm not aware of any being
officially in British service and almost certainly not in the
Commonwealth Forces.  The .303 is most likely a Lee Enfield round.
Almost all .303 rifles used by British and Commonwealth forces in
WWII and until the 1950's were Lee Enfield.

Th' Wombat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:03:33
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Re: Springfield

The Wombat wrote:

> The .303 is most likely a Lee Enfield round.  Almost all .303 rifles
> used by British and Commonwealth forces in WWII and until the 1950's
> were Lee Enfield.

If the cartridge isn't a 30-06 from a Springfield, but truly a .303,
note that...

"...in mid-1941 when (again) it was realised that accelerated rifle
production was needed, and that (again) the Americans were the ones
to achieve it. This time, though, a slightly simplified Lee-Enfield
No.4 was produced, much the same as the British rifle. Savage Arms
was the chosen company, and the American manufactured No.4=92s were
dubbed the Rifle, No.4 Mark 1*. Strangely enough, they were marked
'U.S. PROPERTY', although there was never any question of the U.S.
Army using them."

(from http://www.african-hunter.com/303_rifle.htm, a URL which I
included in my previous post)

So if it's a 303 maybe the coasties had an American made "Lee-Enfield
No 4 Mark 1." Either way, along with what's documented about the NZ
survey party's experience on Gardner, I'd be reluctant to attribute
that cartridge to anyone but the coasties.

LTM
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:26:53
From:         Terry Thorgaard
Subject:      Bronze bearing sleeve

Is it possible to tell if the part was used (and presumably worn
out); or new?  If brand new, it would have to be from a stock of
repair parts brought along for a Caterpillar bulldozer.  If used,
that would mean that it could either be from the "Cat" (quite
plausable: you replace a part - what do you do with the old one?
Leave it sitting around for a while in case you need it in a pinch.
Periodically you throw out junk like that sitting around.), from the
Electra, or from something else.

As an aside, William Webster-Garman suggests that the term "Cat",
meaning a Caterpillar 'dozer, was used "back then".  Isn't it still
current usage? I've been around them all my life (born in the late
'40s) and it's always been a commonly used term.  "Cat skinner", by
the way, is a term which describes an equipment operator, especially
an operator of a dozer.

*************************************

I don't know. Probably not in the field (used, that is).

The Coasties we know now refer to the bulldozer they had then as a
Cat. I think the truncation has been around almost as long as the
company.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:01:21
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Bulldozers

For those who have a more intimate knowledge of crawler tractors, I found
two pictures from the CG history for you to identify.  One of Loran
construction on Hawaii, and the other on Kwajalein.  I believe among other
companies that manufactured this type equipment were International, and Allis
Chalmers.  Of course "Cat" was the big one.

http://www.uscg.mil:80/history/STATIONS/loran_v2_p60.jpg

http://www.uscg.mil/history/STATIONS/loran_v2_p126.jpg

I have also e-mailed the CG historian to see if he can tell us what small arms
were  issued to the construction and manning units of the Loran Station.

Rick J

**********************************

Of course, we don't *know* for sure (at least I don't) what brand of
bulldozer the Coasties had; there is some tendency even nowadays to
refer to all dozers as Cats. I may have a picture around here
somewhere, if so I will post it for i.d.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:43:29
From:         George Werth
Subject:      Niku V

For the Niku V trekkers:

Hope nobody develops a Sun Allergy(Photosensitivity).
See http://www.everydayhealth.com/
1. Scroll down to 'Health Guide A - Z'
2. Select the letter 'S'
3. Look for 'Sun Allergy' and click.

George R Werth
TIGHAR Member # 2630
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 15:02:04
From:         Terry Thorgaard
Subject:      Re: Bronze bearing sleeve

I've reflected upon my previous observation that there would be
basically two possibilities, new or used.

Actually, there are three possibilities:
1.  new, never taken out of the package, the package (assuming
packaging, of course) thrown away when the CG  left, and the
packaging eventually deteriorating or being opened by villagers;
2.  used, but not worn out either.  This would most likely be the
case if it were a piece of the Electra.  In this scenario, the
assembly of which it was a part could have been salvaged and
disassembled, either in the course of repair (if it were in a dozer)
or using the larger assembly (if a component of the Electra) as a
fishing lure or something.  Remember, preventative maintenance could
explain a used, but not worn-out part being replaced.
3.  worn out.  Which would almost beyond doubt prove it to be a part
of something other than the Electra.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:31:50
From:         George Werth
Subject:      Re: Sleeve bearings

My 'sleeve bearing' experience

Whilst employed as a refrigeration mechanic
in Phoenix, AZ, during the early 1950s it was not
uncommon to find electric motors with their
sleeve bearings seized so tight that the motor
wouldn't rotate.

They could be freed up and returned to service
but usually would fail catastrophically and
short out the motor. Even though this would be
explained to the customer, they would opt to
not replace the motor.

After the 'Boss' withstood several blistering
complaints from angry customers, the word
came down, "Electric motors with seized sleeve
bearings WILL be replaced! No questions asked!"

George R Werth
TIGHAR Member # 2630

LTM who taught me "The BOSS is always right!"
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:33:32
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: Springfield

I think it is very unlikely that the US Coasties were issued with a
rifle that fired non standard ammunition.  I suspect their standard
issue would have been the M1 garand and possibly the M1 carbine,
along with the odd side arm.

I am fairly sure the MK4 Lee Enfield was never issued in US service.
Like the P14 in WW1 It was manufactured in the US for Britain.

On the other hand, It was quite common for Lee Enfield .303 rifles to
be in private possession between wars, and in fact, right up to
recent times.  We only recently had to hand in our rifles when the
gun laws changed, but .303 rifles, not being semi automatic, were not
on the banned list, so there are still a lot around.

I still have a reasonable amount of .303 ammunition here and will be
interested in seeing close ups of the headstock markings when they
are posted.

The phrase "although there was never any question of the U.S. Army
using them" in normal English usage suggests that the rifles were not
intended for use by the USA.  No doubt some would have found their
way into armouries as curiosities though.

Cheers,

Th' Wombat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:33:56
From:         Don Iwanski
Subject:      Bearings

The only part of a CAT I've come across which uses bronze sleeve
bearings is in the transmission.  But nothing under that part
number.  However I did find some of these bearings under that part
number at a couple of government clearing houses.

Starting to look more like transmission bearings.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:34:24
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: bulldozers

The Isaakson Trackdozer was also used in the Pacific.  There are a
few of these still being sold in the states among collectors.  Also,
I have heard that US forces often called anything with a blade or
bucket in front, regarless of whether it was tracked or wheeled, a
bulldozer, while some made a distinction and generically called the
ones with tracks a Cat.

This is only hearsay from an old WWII American friend.

Th Wombat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:13:29
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Re: Bulldozer

  From what I remember reading, the bulldozer was on the island from
about early August 1944 until late October, more or less 2 and a half
months. They apparently worked that machine very hard, starting by
using it to tow many tonnes of supplies from the western side of the
island to the east (later they found a way to land/beach stuff on the
east side), then for about six weeks, clearing, scraping and
reburying a 600 yard diameter circle of heavy vegetation and coral
rubble for the ground system of the LORAN. Then as now, the heat was
overwhelming for the coasties, even though each member of the group
assigned to Gardner had been picked for their individual qualities of
physical strength and endurance. So yeah, it's reasonable to think
discarded parts from a bulldozer could have made their way to the
village.

LTM, who back then said she didn't sweat... she "glowed."
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:13:49
From:         George Werth
Subject:      Re: Bulldozer

Whilst watching the Brickyard 400 this PM
couldn't help but notice the Nextel Cup
race car # 22 -- emblazoned in large white
letters, on the hood, the word "CAT" and elsewhere the word
"Caterpillar."
If you go to http://www.cat.com/ and search
for 'nextel cup race car,' you will find about 11 matching documents.
The Brand Name "CAT" is alive and well!

George R Werth
TIGHAR Member # 2630
(onetime Cat-skinner)

LTM who even let me give her a ride on
      a CAT!
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 00:04:24
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Re: Springfield

G.I. ammunition should be identifiable from the headstamp (lettering
on the closed end of the cartridge, around the primer).
Dan Postellon  TIGHAR #2263
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 00:04:56
From:         John Harsh
Subject:      Re: Springfield

About 15 years ago I bought a Mk 4 No. 1 Enfield at Rose's department
store in Harrisonburg, Virginia for $45.  It was near mint.  It was
made in 1942 in Toronto, brought to the US from some 3rd world
country by an importer in the early 1990s, and sold through the
Rose's store chain.  Various Russian rifles and Mauser variants were
available too.  Some of my buddies got Garands but they were pretty
beat and I couldn't justify the $300 price tag. One friend got a No.4
Enfield made in India with a NATO caliber (7.62?).

I've tried using the Enfield for hunting but found full metal jacket .
303 unsuitable.  It is accurate but not lethal.  Hollow-point 30-06
and .270 are much more effective on the farm.  I would imagine
Enfields were scattered all over the globe after WWII.

LTM, who scolds me for not finding $300 for a Garand.
JMH
0634C
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 00:05:24
From:         Jon Watson
Subject:      Re: Springfield

Did a little looking for information on .303 rounds in general, and have
come across a couple of interesting web sites.

First, Wikipedia has a fair amount of information about history and version
(ie: Mk I through Mk VII) etc.

More thorough is http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/303headstamps.html.

Another interesting site is www.303british.com - scroll down and click on
cartridge headstamps.

I won't say the ammunition couldn't have been made by Springfield, but I
think we have to wait and see pictures of the actual cartridge headstamp. In
any event, the Springfield model 1903 was not chambered for the .303 it was
a .30-06. The Lee Enfield, British and Commonwealth issue, of course was. My
money is on the Kiwis having left it. Of course Gallagher COULD have had an
Enfield, but I don't recall anything in the records about such.

Ltm,
Jon
2266
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 00:05:47
From:         Mike Piner
Subject:      Re: Springfield

The .30-06 cartridge:  "The .30-06 cartridge was created for the
M-1903 Springfield rifle...the same cartridge became the most widly
used rifle and light machine gun amunition...."  This includes the M1
Garand which replaced the Springfield during WW2.
WWW.olive-drab.com/od_firearms_ammo_30-06.php.
      SO, the Coast Guardsmen could have had either weapon.  The NZ
surveyors could have had an M1917 Enfield and still used the same ammo.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:41:04
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: rounds

Here are a couple of pictures of the difference between a British
WWII round and a US WWII round.  I forgot that posting attachments to
the forum doesn't work.
http://www.rossdevitt.com/303.html

The 30 cal round is NOT a rifle round, it is a carbine round (short
rifle issued instead of a pistol). The rimless case however is the
same idea as used on most weapons today.

If you look at the .303 round you will see that it has a rim, like a .
22 rifle that most people are familiar with.  This rim distinguished
the British ammunition as well as the calibre.  :303 is just a little
bigger diameter than .30 (30 cal is 7.62mm, .303 is 7.67mm). Having
said that, the British .303 could be used in some Japanese weapons
because they adopted a copy of the Lee Enfield round mainly for
machine guns.  (I believe)

The headstamp is clearly visible in the rounds on my desk.  If TIGHAR
has a .303 it will read something like the one on my ammo but the MK
will read a different MK number and also the code at the bottom will
be different.

The .303 is obvious.  MK8 refers to the design of the cartridge (not
the mark of rifle that it could be used in).  The Z tells me there is
glazed nitrocellulose as the propellant.
The two upside down square "U" 's and the Y denote the manufacturer
(could be one of a number of European countries).  The 85 is the year
of manufacture.
IN the round TIGHAR has found it is likely there will be a completely
different headstamp.  These rounds were made for so many years and by
so many countries that there are a lot of stamps.

I might be able to identify the details from the headstamp.

regards

Th Wombat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:42:00
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Re: Springfield

What a great bunch lurking on this listserv! Anyway all the comments
about Springfields, Enfields and .303s do seem to support the notion
that a Springfield or .303 cartridge (which is to say, whatever
they've found) could have more or less easily come from someone other
than a member of the NZ survey (Brit or American).

LTM
********************************

On further consideration, in a good light, the decision has been made
that they are M-1 rounds.

P
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:15:48
From:         Terry Thorgaard
Subject:      Re: Springfield

All of which points to a thought that has received insufficient
attention here, I think:
We know of a discrete number of instances of human presence on
Gardiner/Nikumaroro:
1. the Guano experiment
2. the Norwich City wreck
3. the suspected AE crash landing
4.  The N.Z. survey
5.  The plantaiton colony led by Gallagher.
6. the Coast Guard LORAN project and
7.  the various TIGHAR expeditions.

But it is quite possible that there were other visits to the island
of which we have absolutely no record.  Such unrecorded visits could
well be the source of the .303 or MI casings discovered, as well as
other evidence, such as aluminum pieces, burned bird bones, the
missing human bones Gallagher sent to Fiji, and Lambrecht's notation
of  seeing "signs of recent habitation".
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:16:29
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Coast Guard weapons

Received the following reply from the Coast Guard historian:

> Date : 07/30/07 09:21
>
> Hello:
>
> We were issued standard US Navy weapons; the .45 was the standard side
> arm and the Springfield rifle (.30 caliber, I believe) was the
> standard
> rifle until the introduction of the M-1 Garand.
>
> Some units held on to their earlier .38 caliber Colts; others had the
> .30 caliber BAR.  Other than that?
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Good luck with your research.
>
> Scott T. Price, Historian
> U.S. Coast Guard Headquarters (CG-09224)
> 2100 Second Street, SW
> Washington, DC  20593    Phone: (202) 372-4653
> Email: Scott.T.Price@uscg.mil
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:50:07
From:         Tom Hickcox
Subject:      Re: Springfield

> On further consideration, in a good light, the decision has been made
> that they are M-1 rounds.

What do they base these conclusions on?

Tom Hickcox
#2725
******************************************

I don't know. There are several people on the team familiar with WWII
firearms and presumably they are able to tell. Even if Ric told me, I
wouldn't know. <G> My knowledge of guns is very slight.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:28:23
From:         Mike Piner
Subject:      Re: Springfield

For Tom Hickcox:

       I dont''t think you could tell whether from an M1 or a
Springfield 1903, or an Enfield, from  the round.  It seems that the
ammo was standard in 1906.  The Coast guard there on Gardner could
have had either rifle.   see http://www.oldammo.com/february05.html
Mike
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:28:55
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      Re: Springfield

I hope I can dispel the confusion concerning the cartridge cases
found. The posts so far have been partially correct.

There are three, not two, thirty caliber rounds to be considered.
Thirty caliber means that the projectiles (the bullets) are
approximately thirty one hundredths of an inch in diameter, .30
inches. There are many different cartridges that use bullets of this
size, to name just a few:

.30 caliber M1 carbine, used by the U.S. in W.W.II an later;

.30/06 commonly called the "thirty aught six" (it is 30 caliber and
was adopted by the U.S. in 1906, "nineteen aught six") and also
called the 7.62mm by 63mm, used in the M1 rifle, the model 1903
Springfield rifle and in the model 1917 Enfield rifle, all U. S.
rifles, and in the M1937 and M1919A4 Browning machine guns. This
cartridge was used by the U. S. in W.W.I, W.W.II and later;

(European cartridge designations use the diameter of the projectile
and the length of the case. 7.62mm is approximately .30 inches)

.303 British used in British SMLE (Short Magazine Lee Enfield) MK3
and MK4 rifles and in the British BREN light machine gun. This
cartridge was used by the British from before W.W.I until 1957;


.308 Winchester which is also called the 7.62 NATO and the 7.62mm by
51mm (7.62x51) used in  M14 U.S. rifles and M60 machine guns and in
Australian and British L1 rifles and machine guns after 1957;

7.62mm by 39mm used in Soviet AK-47s;

and many others.


The three cases likely to be found on Niku are the .30 carbine, .
30/06 and the .303 British. These cases are easily distinguished.

The .30 carbine has a straight case much like a long pistol cartridge
and the case is 33 mm long.

The .30/06 has a shoulder, is ''rimless" meaning that although it has
a rim he rim is the same diameter as the case, a groove being placed
in front of this type of rim for the extractor and the case is 63mm
long.

The .303 British has a shoulder and a very prominent rim that is
larger in diameter that the cartridge case and the case is 56mm long.

So, all it takes, is a ruler.

gl
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:29:22
From:         Rick Boardman
Subject:      Re: Disturbances

Of course.  I entirely agree.  For instsance, only last year as I was
surfing the web thing, I came across a website of an ocean going
yacht and it's owners.  They had pictures of their brief "run ashore"
on Niku, and even on the diary section accompanying their photo, they
reffered to not disturbing the area, because of Tighars efforts at
archaelogy.

The point being that yes, the site is not and never has been so
completely sterile as far as archaelogy is concerned.

LTM who appreciates the occasional visit

Rick Boardman
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:09:22
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      Re: Cartridges

A source of constant confusion is that the U.S. used two shoulder
fired weapons in WW I.I. One is the M1 RIFLE ( also called the Garand
after its inventor, John C. Garand) which fired the full power rifle
cartridge, the .30/06. The other was the M1 CARBINE, designed to
replace pistols, a much smaller weapon firing the much less
powerful  .30 Carbine cartridge.


gl
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:09:58
From:         Craig fuller
Subject:      Re: Disturbances

>> They had pictures of their brief "run ashore" on Niku<<

Was this the psychic group out of Tucson AZ? If so that web site is a
spoof. All of the pictures they used can be found on TIGHAR's site with
pictures of the people (realistically) photoshopped in.

Craig Fuller
AAIR Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
www.AviationArchaeology.com
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:10:35
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      Re: Springfield

To be complete, the .30/06 was also used in the U.S. light machine
gun known as the M1918 BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) from WW I.
onwards.

gl
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:53:58
From:         Bob Risser
Subject:      Re: Caterpillar

One other part of a dozer that has bronze sleave bearings are the
hydraulic cylinders that move the blade. Most have the bearing
pressed into the steel endcap.The four shallow holes could be for set
screws to hold it in place and make it easy to change in the field
( island). Hope I`m wrong ! Bob Risser #2251
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:54:45
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: Springfield

> From Gary LaPook
>
> "The .30 carbine has a straight case much like a long pistol
> cartridge and the case is 33 mm long. "

This is incorrect.  The 30 cal M1 case is NOT a straight case much
like a long pistol cartridge.
The .30 calibre M1 cartridge has a tapered case, although as I
mentioned in my first post, it is about the size of a large (magnum
type) pistol tound.

The sides are straight but there is close to 1mm of taper between the
base and the neck of the cartridge.
Not that it matters much - the case discovered would probably have
been described as belonging to some sort of pistol round if it had
been an M1 carbine cartridge.

Th' wombat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:42:48
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Springfield M1 rifle,
               M1 carbine and Lee Enfield .303 cartridge photos

In the interests of making this easier to follow for anyone
interested I have placed comparison pictures of the 3 possible
cartridge cases (in fact, 3 possible complete cartridges) on the web
page.

http://www.rossdevitt.com/303.html

The M1 carbine and .303 British are from my own personal stock, so
they were easy.  The 30-06 I had to find.
I was a bit unfair in my response to Gary (sorry Gary).  I read his
straight case as meaning parallel sides (like a pistol round), which
it hasn't.  The angles two of the pictures were taken from make it
look that way,, but if you look carefully at the rounds lying on my
desk you can see the taper on the small one.

Gary obviously meant that the sides are straight as in not "necked",
not as in "not tapered" and I apologise for not reading more carefully.

In the pictures on the left you can clearly see the difference
between the British round in the middle and the US round on the right.

When the US decided to use the Lee Enfield pattern rifle they were
making for the British in WWI, they modified the rifle so it could
take the US cartridge.  As far as I can discover, byt WWII there were
none of these rifles issued to US forces as the Garand was
technologically superior in that it was self loading.

Anyway, these pictures should make it much easier to understand the
difference and will certainly make it much easier for Ric and the
team to decide what they found.

Th' Wombat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:46:09
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      Re: Springfield M1 rifle,
               M1 carbine and Lee Enfield .303 cartridge photos

You're right, I meant straight as in not "bottle- necked" or not with
a shoulder.  So I would call a 9mm Parabellum straight even though it
is tapered while the .45 ACP is straight and not tapered.

gl
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:46:46
From:         Rick Boardman
Subject:      Re: the knob

Just read tonights adventures of the team.

Firstly, in the article "The knob that wasn't", one of the lessons
learned from finding a "knob" which ultimately turns out to be a
spout from a can, was not to give artifacts a name which might lead
researchers astray.

So is the knob the team have found actually another can spout?

If yes, shouldn't you call it such?

Secondly, if you've found another can spout and more accurate data is
forthcoming from this one, perhaps it'll help narrow down what and
when the cans were?

Rick Boardman
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:47:18
From:         Terry Thorgaard
Subject:      Cartridge discussion

I'm sort of confused as to where this discussion is going.

If they are .303 Enfield cartridges they were probably left by the
New Zealand survey.

If they are .30 M-1 rifle or M-1 carbine cartridges they couldn't
have been pre-war, so would have to be left by the Coast Guard.

But I'm really starting to wonder: so what?

If the New Zealand survey party survey party discharged a rifle at
the "L" site - the exact location where a year or so later
Gallagher's workers would find human remains, does this suggest a
homicide?  And does the fact that Gallagher's superiors insisted on
complete secrecy regarding his discovery, and the fact that they
subsequently "lost" those remains, possibly suggest a coverup at the
highest levels designed to hide that homicide?  And does the fact
that a curiosly mis-labeled photograph of Gardner, supposedly taken
by an American naval aviator, turns up in a New Zealand archive,
providence unknown, thicken the plot even more?

Note: the above paragraph is in jest.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:47:50
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Re: Springfield

I don't think that guano was ever mined on Nikumaroro, but Arundel
did plant coconuts there.  It is not impossible that whalers stopped
there in the 1840's and 1850's.  I'm still looking for some
documentation.
Dan Postellon  TIGHAR#2263
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:48:10
From:         Mike Piner
Subject:      Re: Cartridge

Thanks to Ross Devitt for his illustrating the cartridges.  All
of us should look at understanding this subject, we are prone to
disagreeing with each other, when it is so easy to get the facts.  I
suggest that you-all ( I'm from the south, and we say yall)  go to
the sight below.  It is very informative.

        http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/30-06intro/

       The other subject the sleeve bearing,  some might be thinking a
bulldozer you see today, but it would be helpful to see a 1941 D2
caterpiller Bulldozer.  I found a site of rebuilt stuff including a
1941 D-2.

        http://www.timwafer.com/   or for the picture D-2
        http://www.timwafer.com/images/new_cage.jpg

mike
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:48:48
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Re: Springfield

The link doesn't work.  An M1 had a short, basicly straight cartridge
case.  The Springfield and Lee-Enfield cartridge cases are necked.
The bullets are all about .30 calibre.

Pistols have been manufactured to fire the M1 carbine cartridge.

Dan Postellon  TIGHAR #2263 LTM (love the M1)
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:49:39
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: Springfield M1 rifle,
               M1 carbine and Lee Enfield .303 cartridge photos

Something totally irrelevant to the forum, but an interesting little
piece of info I left out.As well as the US 30-06 adaption of the Lee
Enfield rifle, it was also modified as a shotgun!  The story goes
that the British wanted to issue the Lee Enfield to ist Indian troops
to put down uprisings, but didn;t want this formidable weapon turned
against themselves if things went wrong.  Whatever the real reason
for the weapon, it was issued as the "Ishapore".

The Lee Enfield's barrel was bored out to .410 and the chamber
modified to accept a special .410 shot cartridge as well as a few
other modifications being made.  The .410 cartridge was different
from the off the shelf version.  A friend of mine had one of these
for many years in his collection, but we never had any ammunition for
it.

Just a little piece of trivia...

Th' Wombat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:37:32
From:         Mike Pner
Subject:      Re: cartridge

I am still learning!  the term Enfield rifle needs to be
clarified.  There are TWO Enfield rifles.  To research for yourself
Google Enfield Rifle US, and then Google Lee-Enfield Rifle.
      You will find that the Lee-enfield has variations, and uses
rimmed cartridge, cal .303, which is slightly larger than the 30 cal,
30-06.  They are different.  The cartridge for Lee-Enfield is cal.303,
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:37:59
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: Springfield

After all this, I just want to see exactly what it was that TIGHAR
picked up on Niku.  I wonder if they are following this with some
sort of amusement, relayed by Pat, no doubt.

Th' Wombat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:38:34
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Niku V

  From the dailies:

"They are still tied off to the Norwich City, but must cast off at
night and steam out to sea to avoid being tossed onto the reef. No
one particularly wants to be the next Castaway of Gardner Island."

Where's the ol' TIGHAR spirit of adventure.  A TIGHAR team
permanently stationed on the islandway back when might have been
invaluable.  Imagine if there had been a team, living on rats,
coconuts and Bigass Latro, rotating each expedition date....  Imagine
the artifacts to sort through!

Th' Wombat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:45:46
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: Cartridge

Mike,

If you go to the link I posted earlier you will see the cartridges.

The name Lee Enfield is made up of the two people whose designs were
incorporated into the thing.  The Rifle is corectly called Lee
Enfield, but often abbreviated to plain Enfield, especially when
referring to the version modified in the US to take the US .30-06 round.

I think I explained everything else about the rounds that could
possibly relate to the case found on Niku in the earlier posts.

If nothing else, the photos should show the difference clearly.

Th' Wombat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:46:25
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Whalers

The first known European record of Gardner was made by a British
whaler in the 1820s. In the 1840s the captain of an American whaler
named the island after a relative or in-law, who was a US congressman.

Although both Americans and Brits filed guano claims to the island
later in the 19th century, there wasn't much of the stuff there so no
mining ever happened. Arundel's coconut project ended poorly after a
brief go, in 1893 (not enough fresh water, the old Niku tale).

That said, one can assume there have been at least dozens of
undocumented visits to Niku over the past 200 years and yeah, some
may have been made by folks one wouldn't want to meet anywhere, much
less on that isolated atoll.

LTM, who carried now and then, maybe.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:55:58
From:         Terry Thorgaard
Subject:      Re: Springfield

Of course.  Sorry, I forgot that detail in the process of
constructing the point I was making.
I also neglected to list at least one other incident of human
presence, I think.

Coconuts, not guano.  Right.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:14:45
From:         Mike Piner
Subject:      Sleeve bearing

A Sleeve Bearing is used in cylinder onto which is fixed an Airplane
Wheel.  This wheel might flex up and down on another cylinder to make
the landing smoother, with proper lubrication.  Such an application
can be seen of a P51 Mustang landing gear at the following website.
http://www.old-picture.com/united-states-1930s-1940s/Mustang-landing-
P-51-Gear.html
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:23:57
From:         Mike Piner
Subject:      Niku condos

Ross you may have hit on something ;---Build a nice little Condo
down there .  Rent it out, monthly, and for recreation search for
proof of Amelia and Fred's landing there.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:08:10
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Re: Niku Condos

Mike Piner wrote,

> Ross you may have hit on something ;---Build a nice little Condo
> down there .  Rent it out, monthly, and for recreation search for
> proof of Amelia and Fred's landing there.

Don't tell me... "Amelia's Last Resort"

LTM, who has heard the pitch for timeshares bundled with scrap metal
from the Eiffel Tower.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:08:43
From:         Terry Thorgaard
Subject:      Re: Springfield .303

WWG is recalling, I believe, the account of Maude's October 13-15,
1937 reconnoiter of Gardiner, and not the N.Z. Aviation survey  (See
Bevington's journal.)  Bevington, the only non-native on that walk,
says he was carrying two crabs and some Boobies the whole way.  There
is no mention of him carrying a rifle, although I suppose it is
possible that he had one of the natives carry it for him.

The N.Z. Aviation Survey spent several months on the island (Nov 30,
'37 to Feb. 5, '38 - see Gibson's General Report).  Since they mapped
the island, they probably walked around it numerous times.  But we do
know that they had a .303 caliber rifle (see the Hayes Journal.)
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:36:09
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Re: Springfield .303

Thanks so much for bringing that up TT, it was indeed Bevington's
little jaunt that I remembered (though I don't at all read him as
saying he carried two crabs and some boobies the whole way... rather
he "learned" how to do this after they'd gotten back, later that
evening).

Gibson's general report, which I guess today we'd call an "executive
summary," is rampant in its utter lack of detail as to what they did
on the island or how thoroughly they covered it (I guess that's why
it has taken up so little space in my memory that I muddled it with
Maude) but I do tend to agree they must have tramped around most of
Gardner one way or another.

LTM
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:15:41
From:         Terry Thorgaard
Subject:      surmising who may have fired the cartridges

As I reflect upon the portion of Bevington's journal available online
I am fascinated by his Kiplingesque preoccupation with demonstrating
what he clearly believed was his cultural superiority.  Either this
preoccupation is genuine (and an interesting picture of British
colonial civil service attitudes some 70 years ago), or it is an
exceedingly clever mask for a failure to mention what, if anything,
he may have seen or done in the vicinity of  the "7" site.

Assuming, therefore, that Bevington didn't fire the cartridges, that
leaves the following suspects:
1.  his hypothetical gun-bearer, who may be the same one who, it
should be noted, caught up with Bevington some 3 hours after
Bevington completed the hike;
2.  a New Zealand Aviation Survey member;
3.  a member of the "Gallagher" colony (who may have later "found"
the bones), assuming that the colony had a rifle of the proper caliber.
4.  a coast-guardsman; or
5.  some other un-documented visitor.

The above list can, of course, be shortened once we conclusively
agree on the make & model of the rifle that fired the recovered casings.

In any such scenario, one has to wonder why it is that the shots were
fired (or ejected, which I assume would be the same) at precisely the
"7" site.  Plinking at tin cans or chunks of coral?  Shooting sharks
(too far inland I would think)?  Shooting rats?  Or what?

The sound of a shot, I would think, could probably be heard from
anyplace on the island  (Note: can this be tested before the present
expedition leaves?).  Referring to the above list, this can be
explained as follows:
1.  If Bevington, Maude, or someone on the ship had heard gunfire,
questions would have been asked and it would have been mentioned in
the report.
2.  All survey members may have been aware of it, and had no reason
to make note of it.  No one else was on the island until the colony
arrived later on.
3.  Other colonists may have kept quiet for any number of reasons.
Gallagher, or his successor, might have been absent, or asleep.
4.  The colonists would have thought "Those crazy Americans are
shooting their rifles again!", but would have had no cause to make a
record of it.
5.  ?

********************************************************************

The Coasties fooled around with target practice. Some of the debris
includes USCG issue plates and crockery.

There is no record of the islanders accompanying Maude and Bevington
having guns. Nor, for that matter, of Maude or Bevington having guns.
Bevington is a Quaker and would be unlikely to go armed.

Gallagher had a .22.

The sound of a shot would most emphatically *not* be heard elsewhere
on the island. The ambient noise is at a high level and there is a
great deal of vegetation to deaden sound.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:45:09
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      Re: Cartridges

The M1917 Enfield rifle chambered for the .30/06 cartridge and used by the
U.S. in WW 1 was not a modification of the SMLE, Lee-Enfield, used as the
main British rifle in WW 1 and WW 2, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_Enfield_rifle

This was a modification of an entirely different type of rifle that had been
developed in England as the P14 Enfield. It was modified to use the 30/06
and was manufactured in the U.S. and used as the second standard American
rifle in WW 1 along with the Springfield M1903.

A little trivia. SGT York was issued a M1917 so there has been controversy
as to whether he had used it or a Springfield rifle to kill all those
Germans. But, York's son as stated that his dad told him that he had managed
to get rid of his M1917 and had picked up a Springfield to use at the time
as depicted in the Gary Cooper movie. Also, in that movie, Cooper is shown
using a Luger pistol but York actually used a M1911 Colt .45 automatic. The
reason that they used a Luger in the movie is that they didn't have blanks
that would work the .45 but did have blanks for the 9mm Luger.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:00:25
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      Re: Cartridges

We have spent a lot of time talking about cartridges so we are all dying to
know. Has Ric used his ruler to measure the case length yet? so we will have
the answer to what type of cartridge case was found. 33mm means M1 CArbine;
56mm means .303 British; and 63mm means .30/06.

***********************************

I think it's been sort of a low priority.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:32:53
From:         George WErth
Subject:      What if?

With a little imagination, "WHAT IF?":

What if, like in the movie ELVIRA MADIGAN,
Fred shot Amelia and then turned the gun on
himself after the tides had swept their Electra
away?
To complete the story, those pesky crabs out
of respect buried the bodies and dragged the
gun away for use in defending themselves from
those ferocious sharks in the lagoon.
We may NEVER know!

George Werth
TIGHAR Member # 2630

LTM who always said, "IF is a little word with
a long tale!"
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:33:21
From:         Mike Piner
Subject:      Signs of recent habitation

In re-reading Eric Bevington's Report, I find an poignant
sentence.  "We found many interesting things including signs of
previous habitation."  They had walked around the Island on October
14, 1937, five month after Lambrecht flew over and saw"signs of
recent habitation...."  It is quite possible that Bevington and the
natives came close in their three days they were on the island, to
Amelia in some state,Well but they just didnt contact each other,
Sick and could not move, or dead.  Three instancies, of near rescue,
1. Coast Guard went north instead of south down line of position.
2. Navy didn't send a search party.
3. Bevington was so close, only a three day inspection.  How sad,
   I sure hope we find something.

     I regret the post about the Condo.   Mike
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:33:54
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Bearings and compression fittings

On the original premise that the team may have found a cluster of artifacts in
the area where the wheel of fortune was thought to be, this photo has some
tantalizing possibilities for the armchair engineers to peruse.  I don't know if
the compression fittings that were found were used or unused, but some can
be seen in this landing gear photo from the Purdue archives. It would also
seem possible for there to be several bearings used.

[url=http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm4/item_vieweer.php?
CISOROOT=/earhart&CISOPTR=344&CISOBOX=1&REC=20]Landing Gear[/url]
or
http://tinyurl.com/yqrt7c

LTM
Rick J
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:34:16
From:         Tom Hickcox
Subject:      Re: cartridges

This site may be of interest:

<http://www.dia.mil/publicaffairs/Foia/smcal_vol1.pdf>

It's from the Defense Intelligence Agency and is on identifying
military small arms cartridges.

Tom Hickcox
#2725
======================================================================== 
Date:         Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:35:16
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: Cartridges

> From Gary LaPook
>
> Has Ric used his ruler to measure the case length yet? so we will have
> the answer to what type of cartridge case was found. 33mm means M1
> CArbine;
> 56mm means .303 British; and 63mm means .30/06.

It's actually simpler than that.  If the thing is a bit over an inch
long it's probably an M1,  If it is a couple of inches long, not
quite half an inch wide at the thick end and narrows to a neck at the
bullet end, it is probably .303 or .30-06.  On the assumption that it
is US or Britishs, if it has a groove machined into the primer end it
is the .30-06 and if it has a rim or flange all around the primer end
it is a .303.

Not even any measurement required.  A rim=British.  A groove=US.

Th' Wombat