====================================================================== Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 11:07:34 From: Tom King Subject: What would Gallagher have known? A question for the all-knowing Forum, particularly members in the UK.... We know that Gerald Gallagher, Administrator of the Phoenix Islands Settlement Scheme and a major player in the 1940 discovery of the "castaway's" bones on Nikumaroro, held a pilot's license in the UK. He came to the Pacific in 1937. My question is: what in general is it likely he would have known about Earhart and her world flight? How was she generally regarded by the flying community in the UK? Assuming he shared that community's general attitude toward her, how is it likely he would have regarded her, and how interested is he likely to have been in her flight? LTM (who wishes all Forumites a very salubrious solstice) Tom ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 11:09:54 From: Herman De Wulf Subject: Re: What would Gallagher have known? Tom, I don't live in the UK but only a mere 220 miles from London. If Gallagher held a pilot's licence I'm sure he would have been interested in Earhart's flight. In 1937 any pilot would have been, especially in Britain where quite a number of record and other pioneering flights had been achieved by that time. The UK was a very air minded place in those days and still is. He may only have heard of her departure from the US days AFTER since news did not travel as fast in those days as it does today. But I'm sure he was aware she was missing since he was thinking of her when he found the castaway's bones. After all Gardner Island was in the general area where she went missing and must have been aware of the failure of the search for her airplane. Hence his suggestion the bones he found could possibly be AE's. LTM ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 11:10:23 From: Ted Campbell Subject: Re: What would Gallagher have known To: Tom King I asked somewhat the same question of Ric some time ago because I was interested in why Gallagher thought of AE when he stumbled onto the bones. If I recall Ric's answer he indicated that it would not be unusual for Gallagher to think of AE because he was well read and attuned to the events going on in the world at the time (I am paraphrasing Ric's comments here.) I believe Gallagher was still in route to his duty station when AE went missing and I questioned whether he would have had access to updates on AE's progress while still on board ship. Once Gallagher arrived at his duty station and was given his assignment, etc., it would not surprise me if he was also given a "heads up" to keep an eye open for any evidence of her disappearance during his travels through the islands. As you see, I keep coming back to the fact that Gallagher immediately thinks of AE when he finds the bones rather than first thinking, well here is the "wretched relics" (Isaac's comments to Gallagher) of some poor castaway that he needs to report just in case there is a missing persons report out there. It just seems to me that there had to be something that caught Gallagher's eye - other than the shoe size - that led him to think of AE! ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:01:03 From: George Werth Subject: Proposed Movie: "Lost Flight Of Amelia Earhart" Allied Artists Inc. is planning yet another movie about Amelia Earhart. For more information go to: > http://www.ameliaearhartmovie.com/pages/5/index.htm< Allied Artists Inc is located in Las Vegas, Nevada. The vice-president of development is John Nichols. Is he, by any chance, a member of TIGHAR? George R. Werth TIGHAR Member # 2630 ********************************************** This is someone with an idea but no money. I don't think it's going anywhere. Pat ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:52:55 From: Tom King Subject: Re: What would Gallagher have known? For Herman and Ted Thanks, gentlemen. Your thoughts coincide with mine, but I'm wondering if we can get any more specific about things like coverage of Earhart's exploits (including those prior to the World Flight) in British media, opinion pieces published in British aviation-oriented journals, etc. I'm trying to imagine what Gallagher's thought processes might have been upon learning of the bones discovery, and where they might have led him in terms of how much time and trouble to devote to pursuing the castaway mystery. It's certainly probable that he would have gotten a heads up about the disappearance once on station, since we know that the WPHC responded to directions from London (at Putnam's request) to search in and around the Gilberts. The disappearance must have been a subject of some conversation among WPHC personnel; I'm just wondering how Gallagher, as a pilot, would have thought about the matter, and about Earhart generally. LTM (who's sure GBG would have harboured no chauvinistic biases toward AE) ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 14:54:28 From: Ron Bright Subject: Re: Proposed movie RE; Allied Artist Movie about AE Former Tighar member, Carol Dow, a screenwriter, wrote the script and has convinced Allied that it would make a nice movie. I am not sure if it is a documentary or fictionalized version of what could have happened. Carol keeps me apprised of the progress, which isn't much, unless you have millions.. Anyone buy the screen rights for Tighars new book "The suitcase..." Ron Bright ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 19:17:04 From: William Webster-Garman Subject: Re: what would Gallagher have known? Tom, we know Gallagher was aware of Earhart's flight because he immediately speculated that the remains might be hers. Although we don't know much more one way or the other about what details he'd heard, ships back then had radios and newspapers did travel on them (never mind Gallagher had that big, lead-acid battery-powered RCA console radio in the government house on Gardner) so it also seems likely he could have somehow, eventually become aware the Phoenix Islands were mentioned during the search and that Gardner had been flown-over by an American plane looking for her and Noonan. The skeletal remains and artifacts obviously seemed female and "western" to him and, taken with the sextant box, I don't think it would have been a stunning leap of either insight or irresponsible speculation for Gallagher to ponder how many women who fit those circumstances might have been in that neck of the Pacific during the mid and late 1930s. LTM, who had an old habit of showing up in unusual places. William Webster-Garman ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 19:57:39 From: George Werth Subject: Re: Proposed movie Ron Bright writes: > I am not sure if it is a documentary or fictionalized > version of what could have happened In the Project Proposal section it states: Allied Artists --- is planning a Documentary for Television that covers the making of the movie. They would be released at the same time as is the custom these days. George R. Werth TIGHAR Member #2630 LTM who loves to watch TV whilst reclining in her lift chair ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 11:42:28 From: Monty Fowler Subject: Re: Proposed movie "Former Tighar member, Carol Dow, a screenwriter, wrote the script and has convinced Allied that it would make a nice movie." I have vague memories of a Carol and her "Dowisms" of forums past. If this is the same one, the movie will be ... interesting. And that's all I've got to say about that. LTM, Monty Fowler. #2189CE ******************************************** Yup, that's the same one. One of the VERY few people we have ever had to actually kick off the Earhart Forum. Pat ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 11:42:45 From: Dennis McGee Subject: Re: Proposed movie Ron Bright said: "Former Tighar member, Carol Dow, a screenwriter, wrote the script." I remember that name from about 3-4 years ago. As I remember, the outline of her script which she talked about here, was . . .ah . . .how do I say this? . . . . um . . . "creative?" I wish her well. LTM, who is unable to ignore the holidays Dennis O. McGee, #0149EC ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 11:43:40 From: Patrick Gaston Subject: Re: What would Gallagher have known? Gallagher's initial reports to the WPHC regarding the skeletal remains found on Niku were made in September 1940, more than three years after Earhart's disappearance. By that time, it is safe to say that Gallagher knew all about the story, including speculation that she had come down in or near the Phoenix Group. Pat Gaston ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 08:58:39 From: Marcus Lind Subject: Re: What would Gallagher have known For Tom King As far as it is possible to judge now from biographies, contemporary articles, memories, etc. etc. etc., Earhart was a quite well known personality in Great Britain in 30s. She was in England twice - both times after a record flights that attracted a lot of attention... and - despite some rather critical (quite chauvinistic as it seems) commentaries in Aeroplane magazine, basically it will be fair to say she had a very good press there. She quickly made many important friends in England - including the High Society people like Lady Astor... they entertained her... she meet and danced with the Prince of Wales... her own comments about Britain were quite warm, friendly and sympathetic... so i think it will be fair to say that she was quite popular and known figure, at least since 1932, for British public. I mean not only the air-minded public - the aviation profesionals - as actually Earhart wasn't active about the aviation only... she was also quite well known as a feminist and champion for women's rights, an author of many articles and speaches on "social" issues... etc... so, the media covered it all... just like it covers now the actions of today's World Celebrities... quite regardless of their nationality and the area of activity. Also, Earhart was a good friend of the famous Amy Johnson/Mollison - the British Premier aviatrix of the period - and it was she who invited Amy and Jim Mollison to stay for some recuperation in her and GP's house, after that sad accident at landing in US after they already successfully crossid all the Atlantic.. and apparently the British media covered it too. So, i would say, probably the disappearance of Earhart was the event of 1937 that didn't came completely unnoticed, and after a couple years it could be still remembered quite well by a significant part of the British public. LTM - Regards, Marcus Lind ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 09:35:46 From: Marty Moleski Subject: Re: What would Gallagher have known? > From Marcus Lind > > ... the famous Amy Johnson/Mollison - the British Premier aviatrix of the > period - and it was she who invited Amy and Jim Mollison to stay for some > recuperation in her and GP's house, after that sad accident at landing in > US after they already successfully crossid all the Atlantic ... A nice summary of Amy's career and tragic death is here: . Marty #2359 ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:00:18 From: Marcus Lind Subject: Re: Amy Johnson For Marty Moleski: Thank you very much! - a good link... really, a great career of a great pilot, and very tragic death. Just a couple days ago btw i saw on TV (National Geographic Channel) some documentary about wartime women pilots... and there was statement that as if it is already established fact, for sure, that alas Amy was shot down by "friendly fire"... It is true?... LTM - Best regards, Marcus Lind ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:44:54 From: Marty Moleski Subject: Re: Amy Johnson > From Marcus Lind > ... there was statement that as if it is already established fact, > for sure, that alas Amy was shot down by "friendly fire"... It > is true? That is a question for our U.K. TIGHARs to determine. I can understand why people would wish it to be true. As in our culture's attitude toward Amelia and JFK, we tend to prefer the more glamorous theories of their death (executed as a spy by the Japanese; murdered by the CIA) to the less glamorous (pilot error; a madman with a cheap gun). Amy was apparently an excellent stick-and-rudder pilot. It hurts to think that she might have gotten disoriented in the clouds and crashed because she overestimated her own abilities. For a tragedy of an entirely different kind, see Jean Batten: Garbo of the Skies, which I read while I was doing work in the archives in New Zealand: Batten was a remarkably proficient solo pilot and an excellent navigator. She survived having her engine quit at 6000' over the Tasmanian sea. She became a recluse in her old age, died of a dog bite, and was buried in a pauper's grave. None of her few remaining friends realized she had died until a few years after the event, and it took some careful detective work by a New Zealand journalist to determine what had happened to her. LTM. Marty #2359 ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:03:02 From: Herman De Wulf Subject: Re: Amy Johnson For Marcus Lind There are no reports of aircraft being fired at the time of Amy Johnson's disappearance as the weather was too bad for flying. If guns would have been fired it would have been on aircraft the gunners could see. In fact Amy Johnson was flying above cloud when she decided to bail out. Researchers have come to the conclusion she mistook a cable balloon for an indication she was flying over land and not out over the sea. What she had seen was in fact the cable balloon attached to a ship in the Thames estuary. The whole accident is well documented and can be found at www.raf.mod.uk, which is the official site of the RAF. Click on "Stories", then scroll down to Amy Johnson. There you'll find all the details. LTM ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:14:09 From: Dennis McGee Subject: Re: Amy Johnson Herman deWulf said: "The whole accident is well documented and can be found at www.raf.mod.uk, which is the official site of the RAF. Click on "Stories", then scroll down to Amy Johnson." This link is a little easier. http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/amyjohnson.html ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:50:24 From: William Webster-Garman Subject: Re: Amy Johnson Well said, Marty. In a lifetime of flying, all it takes is one very unlucky mix of stuff like crummy weather, dodgy mechanics and/or human error (however we may choose to describe "luck"). Lastly, it's truly best to stick with the evidence: While there's some indication Glenn Miller may have died as a result of something rather like "friendly fire," I'm not aware of even a hint of contemporary documentation that Johnson was shot down by anyone. William Webster-Garman ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:25:30 From: Marcus Lind Subject: Re: Amy Johnson for Herman De Wulf, Marty Moleski, Dennis McGee and William Webster-Garman: Thank you very much for your comments on Amy Johnson, and for interesting links! This is what was said in that documentary - just "as it was"... they said that Amy was shot down by AA fire, and the commanders advised the gunner - who did it (by mistake of course) - to shut up, stay silent, and keep this mistake secret... and he did - for 60 years! - and dared to "release the truth" only now! LTM - Best Regards, Marcus Lind ******************************************** > shut up, stay silent, and keep this mistake secret Gee, does this sound familiar, guys? Conspiracy theories are sooooo predictable. Pat ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:37:18 From: William Webster-Garman Subject: Re: Amy Johnson For Marcus... > to shut up, stay silent, and keep this mistake secret... and he did - > for 60 years! - and dared to "release the truth" only now! Yeah, after everyone else is conveniently dead. Sounds like someone had a go at padding a retirement fund or whatever in their old age. Anyway in scholarly terms, otherwise unsupported hearsay from any witness who shows up sixty years after an event carries little or no weight. I can only shake my head at some of the stuff "documentary" film makers manage to sell to broadcasters and cable operators. William Webster-Garman ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:15:32 From: Marcus Lind Subject: Merry Christmas Merry Crristmas, and Happy New Year! - here i am sending the cordial and very best season greetings for all the Memebers of the Forum... Hope the New Year will bring us many exciting discoveries - on this Forum and around! Best Regards - LTM, Marcus Lind ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 09:14:30 From: Suzanne Astorinao Subject: Merry Christmas Here's wishing everybody a very Merry Christmas! Here's a cute card which is a darling rendition of the Drifters do-wop version of White Christmas: http://www.reuters.hu/card_dom/index_content.html Happy New Year, too! Best Regards, Suzanne ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:39:46 From: Dennis McGee Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Bravo! Bravo! Bravo, Suzanne! Santa really has his moves down! LTM, who has no smart-assed closing today Dennis O. McGee #0149EC ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:17:47 From: Herman De Wulf Subject: Earhart in England? Ric and others, Some time ago somebody on this forum wanted to know whether anyone in the UK was aware of Amelia Earhart's flight around the world. I replied that anyone who had anything to do with flying was. I happen to come across proof. I found an old aviation magazine, published in Belgium in 1937. "L"Aviation belge" wrote in its July 10th 1937 issue about the disappearance, reporting AE left Lae for a 4,610 km trip to Howland and failed to arrive. Interestingly the magazine notes that Amelia Earhart before departing from Lae had said that they were delayed at Lae because Fred Noonan had been unable to set his chronometers correctly because of a radio problem and that this had to be solved before they could take off as the flight would require pinpoint navigation. The publication also wrote that AE had last been heard saying over the radio : " We must be upon you but we can't see you", adding "we have half an hour's gasoline left". It was further mentioned that a search was going on and that "weak radio signals had been received, leading to believe she must have landed on a reef or had landed at sea and was afloat. Personally I don't believe she could transmit when the airplane was in the water but that is what the European aviation press was writing in July 1937. LTM ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:55:08 From: Alan Caldwell Subject: Home from the hospital (!!!!) I have had a harder couple weeks than usual. I was released from the hospital last night and am resting at home. I am recovering well and was originally slated to be in the hospital for 4 to 6 weeks. I beat that by half. I broke two rib sections out on my right side. The broken ribs sliced into and collapsed my right lung and severed three arteries. They gave me no chance to survive and the hospital chaplain told my daughter to call everyone in quickly if they wanted to say their last goodbyes. I had a great hospital and an incredible team of doctors, nurses and support people. They called me their miracle patient. I'll be back nit picking as ever in a week or so. Alan ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:18:58 From: Bob Brandenburg Subject: Re: Home from hospital Welcome back, Alan and Happy New Year!!! LTM, Bob ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:39:41 From: Dale Intolubbe Subject: Re: Home from hospital Alan, it's good news that you are recovering. Welcome back. LTM Dale ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:40:02 From: Marty Moleski Subject: Re: Home from hospital > From Alan Caldwell > > I have had a harder couple weeks than usual. ... Sorry to hear about your troubles. Welcome back to the land of the living! LTM. Marty #2359 ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:12:51 From: Ron Bright Subject: Re: Home from hospital Alan, What happened. I must have got in late. Best wishes for a compete recovery. Ron Bright *********************************** Oh, Ron, you know these Texas guys. He probably busted those ribs riding a bull. Pat, who wishes everyone the happiest of new years. ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 19:38:19 From: Alan Caldwell Subject: Re: Home from hospital Thanks, Marty, Dale, Ron and all. The ribs broke in a coughing jag. They may have had hairline fractures then went totally but we have not been able to check that out as I have only two X-rays previously from last May. Nice still being here. Thanks, Bob and it is a VERY happy New Year. Alan