Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:22:28 EDT
From:         Dick Strippell
Subject:      stupidity

RIC:

a reason why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

***********************************************************
From Ric

Dick,  I just KNEW that if we kept trying we could find something that we could totally agree on.
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:24:24 EDT
From:         Don Neumann
Subject:      Spinning prop

i am getting the "spinning prop" from the "morningstarinteractive" site, even on my somewhat limited webtv system.  it works just fine & i've "stored" it in with my other earhart/noonan "favorite" web pages, then whenever things get too "hot" on the forum, i can punch-in my "spinning prop" site to remind me that the mission is still to find that plane & to leave the re-writing of history to the professional "revisionists", who seem to have their own respective versions of the "truth" already firmly established in their own minds.

don neumann
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:29:41 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Morgenthau/Thompson

> I submit that Warner Thompson's report was at best an attempt to fill in
> the blanks with something that made sense to him, and at worst a major
> exercise in cover-your-butt fabrication.

Ah!  I agree with you.  I interpreted your earlier message to mean the radio message transcripts (essentially correct), not the radio logs (largely paraphrased).  Mea Culpa.  (You can bronze this message if you like...one of the few times I have conceded to you!).
*************************************************************

From Ric

I'll die content.
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:37:39 EDT
From:         Sydney crash
Subject:      Re: Sydney Crash

I want to second Craig's disquiet about Ric's easy dismissal of parts being from the Sydney crash because they're from areas that "burned up."  When someone describes something as having "burned up" it doesn't necessarily mean that it's reduced completely to a gaseous state; I'll bet a lot of junk could be left over from the burned area of the plane.

Tom King
***************************************************************
From Ric

Well, I'll tell ya.  My opinion of what would and wouldn't likely survive that occurence is based upon the dozen or so crash-and-burn accidents I investigated in my former life with the aviation insurance industry and on the photocopies of photocopied photos that accompanied the report Craig sent.  It sure looks to me like that sucker burned bigtime.

For those who haven't been treated to the aftermath of an airplane fire it's hard to imagine how something as solid looking as an airplane can be reduced to a few charred remnants.  Aluminum burns at 1100 degrees F - not melts - burns.  A gasoline fire is more than sufficient to make any aluminum component of the airplane simply go away.  When an airplane burns without major intervention by fire-fighting agents you're typically left with a couple of outer wing sections, a tail, and the hulk of the engine(s).  Components close to the ground (belly skins, seats, some cockpit controls) may survive in badly charred condition because most of the heat goes up.

But how about parts that are thrown clear on impact and thus not subjected to the fire?  In my experience, in accidents of this type, that pretty much doesn't happen.  I remember a loss we had back in about 1978.  A twin-engined Beech Baron clipped a tree on a hill during a night approach to Middletown, PA near Harrisburg.  The airplane was considerably smaller than a C-47 but was probably traveling at a similar speed (100 kts more or less) when it lost a chunk of outer wing and hit the ground on its side about 150 yards farther on. It burned on impact.  By the time the fire company arrived all they could do was put out the resulting grass fire.  When I got there the next morning the pilot (most of him anyway) had the been removed but the scene was otherwise undisturbed.  Other than the wing components sheared off by the tree, there was no scattering of wreckage.  The airplane held together on impact.  I was able to get information about throttle, prop and mixture control positions from what was left of the power quadrant, and I could get the fuel selector position but the instruments on the panel were melted.  You don't want to know about the smell.

What I can see in the photocopied photos of the Sydney crash is very reminiscent of that loss.  I think that any component not located in the extreme tail or the outer wing sections should show the effect of intense heat.

I'd be interested to hear from forum members who have first-hand experience with similar scenarios.
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:40:52 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Noonan Project

>If Fred did any drinking, he apparently kept it under control in New
>Orleans - no arrest record there between 1914 and 1937.

Did they ARREST people for drinking in New Orleans in those days?

Tom King
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:44:10 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Exchange of ideas??!!

>And please don't make assumptions about my "flag waving upbringing."  I
>didn't have one.

A flag or an upbringing?

TK
*************************************************************

From Ric

Neither.
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:50:46 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: the prop

Spin, spin, spin the prop,
Gently o'er the web....

Tom King
**************************************************************

From Ric

Verily, verily, verily, verily
Reason's on the ebb
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:03:06 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Campfire sites

Thank you, Tom King, for your description of the topography of the area of the TIGHAR campfire site.  Now I don't have to ask about the lay of the land.  So, that, in itself, does not suggest a direction in which to look.

That tree does sound interesting.  Might it be the one under which the skeleton was found?  In addition to other things that might be found, I persist in the hope that some small bones, or bone fragments, might still be found if one sifted the soil in the right place.

Those enigmatic Gilbertese names carved in the tree... I presume they are simply names and do not say:  "Here so-and-so found old bones..."  <G>

And that tree must be examined closely to be sure it does not somewhere say:

                                       0 0
               EARHART WAS HERE    ---m-^-m---
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:13:33 EDT
From:         Kari
Subject:      Canton 1937

First time to email your forum.  I would like to know if you have any information on the scientific parties that landed on Canton in June 1937, or if you know of how to obtain information on them.  They were reported to have been on the island to observe a solar eclipse. American and British(New Zealand) scientists attended.  Do we know if anyone talked to these scientists, or if they produced any reports on their observations during the time AE would have been in the area?

Thanks
Kari
**************************************************************

From Ric

Yes, we have quite a bit of information about the scientific parties that came to observe the June 8, 1937 eclipse from Canton Island.  The most readily accessible sources are articles published in National Geographic in September 1937 and also later.  Both the Americans and the Brits were gone from the island long before Earhart's flight on July 2nd.
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:16:37 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      map of Howland

For anyone who is interested, Chuck Jackson has sent a URL for a map of Howland Island.

http://cliffie.nosc.mil/~NAWFB/factbook/map-gif/hq-150.gif
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:19:29 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Howland fact sheet

Here's the URL for a Howland "fact sheet" courtesy of Chuck Jackson

http://cliffie.nosc.mil/~NAWFB/factbook/hq-f.html
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:27:39 EDT
From:         David Kelly
Subject:      Wreck Photo

Putting some pieces together:

1.  The Photo was taken by someone standing on the beach looking inland
2.  There are Coconut palms in the background
3.  There were 5 No. palm plantations planted about 1892

Where were these palm plantations on Nikumaroro?  Are any of them a few hundred metres from the beach?  If so, what relationship is this location to where the campfire was found?

What i am trying to do is determine possible sites on Nikumaroro where the photo may have been taken based on the little information we have.  Of course this assumes the photo is genuine.

Regards

David Kelly

**************************************************************

From Ric

From what we can see in the old aerial photos, prior to the clearing that occurred circa 1949, there was a stand of original cocos a few hundred meters back from the Nutiran beach in the same area where former-residents of the island have told us there was airplane wreckage in the late 1950s.

This area is on a completely different part of the island from where Gallagher found the bones, shoe parts, campfire etc, and where we found shoe parts, campfire, etc.  The two sites are about two miles apart.
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:56:04 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Label is modern

I have received from Walt Holm 0980C a modern label (apparently red chili peppers packaged in France) with a EAN barcode that includes a numeral 8 and associated bars in the final sequence.  I have compared these markings, under magnification, with those at the extreme edge of the label fragment found in the remains of the burn feature on Nikumaroro and I concur with Walt that they are virtually identical.  We'll mount comparative scans of the two sets of markings on the TIGHAR website in a new Research Bulletin early next week.

From this, supported by what Vern Klein 2124 has learned about the history of corrugations on cans, I think we are safe in concluding that our label fragment and, by definition, the fire that burned it, are of modern origin.

That, in turn, means that our campfire is not Gallagher's (or more correctly, the castaway's) campfire and we have not yet identified the precise site where the bones and artifacts were found in 1940.

If this conclusion is valid, it means we can stop worrying about the exact identity of our label fragment and move on to developing a hypothesis about where we should look for the 1940 site.

Reactions?

Love to mother,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:01:00 EDT
From:         Dick Strippel
Subject:      Howland fact sheet

>Here's the URL for a Howland "fact sheet" courtesy of Chuck Jackson
>
>http://cliffie.nosc.mil/~NAWFB/factbook/hq-f.html

YOU MIGHT SAY, RIC THAT IT'S THE CIA (YES)"FACTBOOK" YOU REFER TO-WIDELY AVAILABLE IN LIBRARIES

--DICK
***********************************************************

From Ric

I didn't know that.  Thanks Dick.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:10:38 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Sydney Crash

OK, I stand corrected; I certainly don't have the experience that comes anyplace near Ric's when it comes to burning up airplanes.  I'm just very leary of absolute assumptions about what "must have" happened.

LTM
Tom King
**************************************************************

From Ric

Let's remember never to make absolute assumptions about what must have happened.  The best we can shoot for is educated guesses about what seems most likely to have happened.  And about half the time we'll be wrong (if we're lucky).
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:16:18 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Label is modern

There must be something we can do with all that great banana research.

LTM
Tom King

************************************************************
From Ken

Sounds like progress to me. Great detective work. It's just as important to eliminate the false leads as it is finding the real ones.

Ken
************************************************************

From Ric

The label, and therefore the fire, being modern is actually good news for us. It explains why we haven't found more at that particular site and opens the possibility that there is more to find at the true 1940 site, which can not be very far away.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:26:59 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      Re: Noonan Project

Assume you are just pulling my chain - but to clarify it for others, by "keeping it under control", I meant no arrests for public drunkeness, driving under the influence, disturbing the peace, etc. Egad, in the old days you could be arrested for homelessness, they called it "vagrancy".

Smooth Sailing,
Ron Dawson 2126

P.S. now the prop spins for me - amazing what happens when you sometimes follow directions.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Aug 1998 09:11:49 EDT
From:         David Kelly
Subject:      Stating the obvious

When you were last on Nikumaroro, how thoroughly did you and your team search the area of Nutiran?

It seems to me (and i know i am stating the obvious which you have already concluded) that this area is probably the most likely place in which you may find traces of the Electra.  This would make some sense also, the local village is cut off from this area by the Tatiman Passage so only kids and people with a specific reason would venture over there.  The Loran station is at the other end of the Island so chances are the USCG personal would not venture to that part of the island.

If AE & FN were lost and the only sign of human contact was a ship wreck (the SS Norwich City) then that may have been a deciding factor in choosing that place to put down.  Was the SS Norwich City on the maps they were using?  FN may have used this as a landmark.

With respect to where the evidence found by Gallagher may have been, it would seem to me that it would be on the beach side of the island, not on the lagoon side.  If they thought there was any chance of being rescued then they would not have strayed too far from the beach.

Regards

David Kelly
***************************************************************

From Ric

>...how thoroughly did you and your team search the area of Nutiran?

We have conducted no search, as such, on Nutiran.  We always considered it to be among the least likely places for wreckage to be found because we know that early visitors to the island (Maude and Bevington in Oct. '37, the New Zealand survey team in Dec. '38 and also Maude and Gallagher later in Dec. '38) all came ashore up by the wreck of the Norwich City.  The Kiwis surveyed the whole bleedin' northwest corner of the island and produced a topographic map with contour lines at an interval of one foot.  We figured that, surely, they'd have come across airplane wreckage had any been there.

In retrospect we can see (once again) that it's a mistake to make absolute assumptions about what must have happened.  To produce a detailed contour map you don't have walk every inch of the ground, and nobody in their right mind goes back into the bush on Niku without a compelling reason.  Although Nuitran district is physically close to the village, the broad lagoon passage makes it more remote than one might think.  For the Coasties, especially, it would be almost inaccessible.

As far as we know, Norwich City was not an any map that would have been available to Earhart and Noonan, but it certainly would be a prominently visible feature from the air.  It was obviously a wreck but everything else that might have indicated possible habitation (the ruins of some huts used by Arundel's 1892 coconut planters and a flagpole and placard set up in February 1937 by HMSLeith claiming the island for His Majesty) was at that end of the island.

As to whether AE and FN would hang out on the ocean or the lagoon side of the island, I agree with your logic that they'd want to be able watch for ships (in "Robinson Crusoe" it's called the necessity of having "a view to the sea.").  By that same reasoning, their main camp should be on the northwest corner of the island (Nutiran) so as to watch the horizon from whence help is most likely to come.  However, it's clear from Gallagher's description that the castaway camp he found was near the lagoon shore in the same region where we found the shoe parts. etc.  One possible explanation for this apparently illogical location (whoever the castaway was) is that it is not a base camp but a transient camp.  If you're marooned on a desert island you need to inventory your assets by exploring your new home.  On Niku, even traveling as light as possible, it will take you at least two or three days to circumnavigate the atoll and really see what's there (the answer, unfortunately, is - not much).  If you're moving along the southern side of the island you're on the lee side and you're defintely going to want to make your overnight camp on the lagoon shore where there's a breeze.

In October 1937 Bevington came upon a site right in the area we're talking about which looked to him like "someone had bivouacked for the night."  The paucity of artifacts found with the bones by Gallagher seems to support this notion of a transient's camp.  On Nutiran, the New Zealanders noted what they took to be the Norwich City survivors' camp.  Maybe it was.  Maybe somebody else also used it later.

Speculation.

Love to mother,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Aug 1998 09:17:15 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Wreck Photo/Carrington

Quoting Ric...

>As for Carrington, it wouldn't take much to find someone with a better
>relationship with him than I have.  When I called him on the phone he wouldn't
>even acknowledge who he was and he referred to me in the third person.  To the
>conspiracy crowd I am the Great Satan.  What the heck - it's a snappier title
>than Executive Director.

Is it known whether he's still around?  If so, maybe someone else could get him to talk about the photo.  (Do NOT mention TIGHAR and do NOT argue spy theory) Do we know where he is?  If he's not living -- or even if he is -- I wonder what family there may be?  Someone else might not be so unwilling to talk about things he may have talked about.

I take it that "the seaman", HMS Adamant, is known by name.  "The seaman's name could not be found among the ship's company of HMS Adamant..." (From: "Is This Earhart's Elactra," TIGHAR Tracks, Sept. 30, 1997)
*********************************************************

From Ric

The seaman's name was alleged to be Ray Elliot (sp?)

We have a special agent working on the case.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:14:53 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Noonan Project

I recently asked Captain J.C. Clark, formerly of the Mississippi Shipping Co., if he had ever heard any stories about Noonan drinking.  This was his response.

From  Capt. Jay Clark

Ric:  During Noonan's time with Delta Line he had no blemish on his record. At Delta Line the management was rather strict and any misconduct would have resulted in dismissal.  In conversation with the "old timers" I never heard a disparaging word about him.  Incidentally, Delta Line (Mississippi Shipping Co.)should never be confused with the Delta Queen operation on the Mississippi River.

Delta Line was a deep sea operator with trade routes to South America, West Africa and Europe.  The name was formally changed to Delta Steamship Lines, Inc  in the early sixties to avoid confusion with the river operation, which was not in any way connected to Delta.  I was with Delta from 1936 (cadet/midshipman) then deck officer becoming Master in 43.  In 46 I became manager of Delta in South America, then Europe and Africa.  I served as President of Delta from April 59 until April 79, then as Chairman for a short time.   Never during my tenure with Delta did I learn of any adverse criticism of Noonan, and certainly there was never any mention of a drinking problem.

Trust this is adequate for your purposes.

Regards,

Jay Clark
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:15:00 EDT
From:         Tim Smith
Subject:      Label Fragment

OK, I'm now willing to consider that the label fragment could be post-1970. It does look like it has a bit of a Euro-spec UPC code.  I have a 1997 luncheon meat can from Germany at my side.   The last digit in the code ends with an 8 (lower loop bigger than the upper loop, too) and does strongly resemble the Niku frag.

I'm not entirely convinced yet, though.  Here's why:  The 8 looks a little crooked (leaning to the left a bit) to me but maybe that is an artifact of charring.  Second, if it is a UPC code, either the code is printed upside down or the "rower produce" is printed upside down.

I've looked at a lot of labels lately and it is quite rare to see much upside down printing.  I don't recall ever seeing an upside down UPC code.  Checking my collection of canned luncheon meats from around the world, it is not uncommon for the code to run vertically, but never upside down.

I'll keep looking at older labels until someone can show me an example of the whole label.  If its post-1970, somebody should be able to find one in the pantry pretty easily.

SMP (Spins My Prop),
Tim Smith,#1142

***********************************************************
From Ric

We'll try to get some good comparison's mounted on the website today or tomorrow.

Consider the possibility that the border containing the words  ..ROWER PRODUCE continues as a complete rectangle and that each side of the rectangle contains the same legend - maybe something like THE BEST GROWER PRODUCE.  In that case, what we see as the top of the label might well be the bottom and the barcode is not inverted at all.  Just a thought.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:15:46 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Campfire sites: Bevington

Revisiting "Completing the Puzzle," TIGHAR Tracks, Sept. 30, 1997, I realized it was Bevington, not Gallagher who said it looked like "someone had bivouacked there."  A diary entry for Oct. 14, 1937.  We have Gallagher's "South East corner of island... etc."  Did Bevington have anything more to say about the location?
**************************************************************

From Ric

We need to make a distinction between Bevington as a contemporaneous written source (the diary entry) and an anecdotal source (what he told us in an interview in 1992).

The diary says only that when he took Maude on a lagoon tour by canoe of points he had visited on his previous day's walk around the island, "We found many interesting things including signs of previous habitation."  It was when we queried him about this particular comment that he indicated the general area where we found the shoe parts and made the comment about it looking like someone had bivouaced for the night.  He also said he remembered "low walls or piles of rubble" of some kind.  When we asked Maude if he remembered anything of the sort he replied, "Yes, curiously enough I do seem to remember the low pile of rubble that you mention.  As far as my fickle memory of small events 60 years ago, it was in an open space at the other end of the lagoon from the village.  I would describe it as a little pile of debris, not much higher than the surrounding earth, and after scratching around on it I came to the conclusion that it was a rubbish dump used by Arundel's labourers when they spent some years on Nikumaroro planting coconuts for him."  When pressed further he responded, "As far as I remember the debris you speak of looked like a pile of coral sand.  I concluded that it would be from Arundel's workers because they were the only people on the island prior to our arrival."

Interstingly, Maude himself in an earlier report says that the plantings by Arundel's workers were confined to the western end of the island, which is borne out by aerial photos taken in the late '30s/early 40's showing the surviving groves of Arundel's trees.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:25:34 EDT
From:         David Kelly
Subject:      Searching Nutiran

In Australia we have a saying about kiwi's which springs to mind:

kiwi's...eats, roots and leaves.....

Are you going to have a look around the Nutiran when you go back for Niku IIII?

***************************************************************

From Ric

A thorough search of the Nutiran beachfront vegetation is one of our top priorities for Niku IIII.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:28:54 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Searching Nutiran

A couple of additions to Ric's response.

1. Actually, in '89 we did search ON Nutiran, though we certainly didn't do it thoroughly enough.  One of our first hypotheses was that the landing had been made onthe Nutiron mudflat, a clear area that extends well up from the lagoon. Since Nutiran hadn't been planted until late in the colony's history, we reasoned, the plane could have been back in the trees along the marin, not discovered until the '50s, and then assumed to be war wreckage.  So we searched the mudflat for stuff that might have fallen off the plane, and the fringes for the plane itself.  Zip results.  As part of the fringe survey we made some of our first scaevola transects back into the bush, and like to died.  Then we did a fairly thorough poking/crawling/climbing around inspection of the fringes.  Later, getting rather desperate, we considered the possibility of a crash into the high bukas in the northern part of Nutiran, and stumbled around in there for several days (inspiring the song "Blunder Through the Bukas" to the tune of "Tiptoe Through the Tulips").  Giving up, we moved to other areas, but did circumnavigate the island on the ocean-side beach, poking here and there into the fringing vegetation, and finally on virtually the last day on-island John, Veryl, and LeRoy took a very quick look at Southeastern Nutiran, not far from the area that's now of interest -- found lots of evidence of late colonial use of the area, but nothing Ameliaesque. But it was a VERY quick look.

Re. lagoon vs. ocean shore as a campsite:  During the '97 work at Aukaraime I took several occasions to work my way over from the site to the ocean shore, because it did seem logical that if they were camped there they'd at least have some kind of presence on the ocean side.  Could be, but the cocos get thicker as one goes ocean-ward, which means that the fronds and dead nuts and baby cocos on the ground get thicker.  The ground also generally gets a bit lower.  If we're going to go that way, we're going to have to invest a lot of energy in ground clearing.

I tend to think that our best bet right now is to try to glean the accounts of bones -- all of them -- for everything we can get that might help us pinpoint the Gallagher find site -- and get to Tarawa, London, and wherever else is necessary to look for more records -- particularly any Macpherson notes -- toward the same end.  And then search the living daylights out of the place.

Love to Mom
Tom King
Project Archeologist
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:34:28 EDT
From:         Craig Fuller
Subject:      Re: Sydney Crash

Ric,

While I agree that most likely anything in the main cabin of the C-47 burned, there is a good chance that anything from it could have also survived. A good enough chance that we shouldn't decide anything is definitely not from the C-47 just because that part of the aircraft burned. While I have only been to two crash sites immediately after the accident, many of the over 150 crash sites that I have been to are remote enough that much of the wreckage remains today. I have found many items from the portion of the aircraft that burned. From intact instruments to radios to logbooks.

Let me guess that the Baron did not go through too many more trees. It also sounds like it lost much of its forward movement and had primarily vertical (downward) movement when it hit. The following is an except from Major Cotner's statement in the Sidney crash report:

"The plane went up over the trees for a distance of about 150 yards and started coming down through the trees again, sheering off trees until it came to rest approximately 376 yards from the first tree it struck."

My experience when a plane goes though trees it is like cheese going over a cheese grater.

Major Cotner does go on to state:

"The airplane burned completely with the exception of the tail section and the left wing from the motor out, also, the right wing which had been lost."

He would not go on to list: except one window, a 1 by 2 foot section of skin, a cable fragment etc. I have been to crash sites where the official report states that there was nothing left of the plane or it burned completely and have found many identifiable pieces (large enough to take two people to lift). The common notion of an airplane crash is much like the one in the mystery wreck photo, and not one of many pieces scattered over 376 yards.

The report also stated: "One occupant was said to have been thrown clear of the plane and died a few minutes later." Now wasn't that "item" from part of the plane that burned to nothing?

Again, I highly doubt that the navigator's bookcase came from this crash. I think it has come from another source. Do the mounting holes show any damage indicating that it was torn from its mounts or does it show any other evidence of crash damage?

LTM

Craig Fuller
Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
AAIR
**************************************************************

From Ric

No damage to the mounting holes.  No apparent impact or fire damage.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:45:32 EDT
From:         Mike
Subject:      Re: stating the obvious

Am I correct in understanding that only one persons bones were found by the campfire? If so, does that imply that (assuming they are from our party) that the other person died in the landing? And may have left their bones over by the crash sight, which you say could be a couple miles away... perhaps buried (if not probably long gone).

I've been wondering why AE or FN would wander a couple miles away from the airplane and camp there. There's nothing much around except the village remains, right?
*************************************************************

From Ric

There are lots of possible scenarios that could account for only one set of bones being found.  Two people who die from thirst, illness, whatever, are not likely to die at the same moment.  The first to go could have been buried by the second.  The first to become too weak to travel could have been left behind while the first continued on.

If any of the post-loss messages are genuine, there was no crash per se.

As I mentioned in an earlier posting, Earhart and Noonan might very logically have  tried to explore the island for possible resources upon accepting the possibility that they might have to await rescue for some time.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:54:03 EDT
From:         Don Neumann
Subject:      Re: Stating the obvious

assuming a.e. did set down on niku island, & since the "norwich" was clearly the only obvious landmark, it would seem logical a.e. would have tried (if at all possible) to land close to the wreck?  another thought, none of the "post-landing" radio signals received make any mention of a "wrecked- ship".  if such signals were, in fact, from a.e./noonan, one would think they would have tried to i.d. their location with some reference to the shipwreck?  (in fact, i believe it was among the very first things that lambrecht observed on his overflight of the island a week later!)

don neumann
***************************************************************

From Ric

Remember that the only post-loss message received by an "official" source which contains any content at all is the "281" message heard on the night of 4 July.  That was fragmentary, incomplete phrases.  We don't know what is missing.

At least on of the ham operators in the states who claimed to have heard a transmission from Earhart said that she said, "Ship on reef south of equator." If the transmission was genuine, was she referring to her airplane as her "ship" or was she trying to describe the most distinctive feature of the island?

LTM,
Ric

PS  To make capital letters hold down the key that says "shift."
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:05:58 EDT
From:         Erik Flippo
Subject:      Membership sale

Please put me down for the two-year membership special. I am sending you my credit card number via snail mail.

Your website was a big help when I was researching Amelia last year for a class project at ArtCenter College of Design in Pasadena, CA. We had to design a memorial to a historical figure of our choosing. As it was the 60th anniversary of AE and FN's disappearance, the world flight was all over the news. I didn't know a lot about the subject then, but I must say the mystery of it all intrigued me.

The tantalizing clues posted on your site sucked me into the search, and I've been lurking happily on the forum since January. I think making my membership official is long overdue -- but, hey, better late than never!

BTW, if anyone is interested in seeing the design for my AE/FN memorial, it's posted at:

http://members.aol.com/erikflippo/amelia.html

Love to mother,
Erik Flippo

************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Erik.  You're in under the wire.  The sale ends today Aug. 3rd.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:13:09 EDT
From:         Asa Bricker
Subject:      My Reply

Every one has an assumption . . .some assume AE & FN went down in the water and some think they landed on an island. Some believe there was a conspiracy, others don't and still others keep an open mind. In the end it doesn't matter what we think. When the final story is told some will be right, some wrong.

My comment about agreements we're not aware of was an attempt to keep an open mind, YES, I do believe there were agreements made we don't know about. That doesn't mean the agreements had to be sinister in nature (agreements to act as a spy).

I'm amazed you were able to judge my thought process and understand how I see and cope with the world based on a brief comment. Surely you missed your true calling!

Concerning my planned address to the Washington Pilots Asso. My plan had been to discuss the AE / FN flight as aviation history. This would have included the government search and how the flight has resulted in any number of theories,searches, books, and how TIGHAR is currently investigating their theory that AE & FN landed on an island. Let the audience draw their own conclusion(s) about the story, the books,  the search, and TIGHAR. Guess I'll proceed without mentioning TIGHAR since you seem to have the public relations / advertisement / fund raising situation well in hand.

No, I'm not a member of TIGHAR, I don't agree / disagree with TIGHAR. You may be right. For that matter you may be wrong, time will tell. I don't join every group that I have interest in, however that doesn't mean I can't say something nice about them and just maybe my comments might help that organization.

Others have commented that it's your Forum, your reply was (something to the effect) that you're only the moderator. Well it's your Forum, TIGHAR is your origination and you have a THEORY. . .

Two last thoughts:

People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks!
and 
you never know when a tiger might turn into a chipmunk!

Love to ALL,

Asa Bricker
*********************************************

From Ric

Mr. Bricker is replying to my posting which said:

>I should have known better.
>
>What I have is a photocopy of an unpublished manuscript of something well
>over a hundred pages by "L.F. Safford."  The table of contents sheet implies
>that the name of the work is "Flight Into Yesterday" and states that it was
>"Revised 23 June 1971."  Later parts of the manuscript have the title as
>"Amelia Earhart's Last Flight - A Tragedy of Errors."  The impression I get
>is that Safford changed his mind about what he wanted to call the piece.
>There is an introduction by "Bob Stanley", an ex-navy pilot who had
>participated in the Lexington's search for Earhart and a number of indices of >various press releases, radio messages, etc.  The entire point of the
> manuscript appears to be to debunk any notion of covert government involvement >in the Earhart flight.
>
>TIGHAR certainly can not sell Safford's work.  We don't own it and I have
>no idea what its copyright status may be.  (Randy - Do you know where there
>might be a publicly accessible copy of Safford's manuscript?)
>
>I may regret this, but I have to call you on your statement, "I'd like to
>see the mystery solved also, however I do believe there were agreements made
>that we're not aware of (who knows if we ever will be)."  Forgive me, but that
>sounds to me like a classic conspiracy mind-set.  In ten years of
>struggling with the Earhart case I've come to understand that there is no
>reasoning with someone who "just knows" something.  It does no good to review
>facts and sources with people who think like that because their beliefs
>have nothing to do with facts and sources.  It has more to do with how
>they see and cope with the world.  No matter what is found they will never be
>convinced that there isn't a secret hidden layer behind it all.  If I've
>misinterpreted your meaning, I apologize.
>
>About your address to the Washington Pilots Assoc. - we're always happy to
>support our members efforts to spread our message.  At this point you're
>not a TIGHAR member and it doesn't sound like you're much in agreement with
>our message.  Correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>The sale on new two-year memberships and two-year renewals for present
>members at the reduced price of $70 ends on Monday August 3rd.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:35:47 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Campfire sites

Vern wrote:

>And that tree must be examined closely to be sure it does not somewhere say:
>
>                                       0 0
>               EARHART WAS HERE    ---m-^-m---


And pray to God it doesn't say KILROY WAS HERE!
              \\  ~ ~  //
               (  @ @  )
  -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo----------

Tom Robison
Ossian, Indiana
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:37:52 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Wreck Photo

Not mindful of Dick Strippel's admonition to read the book before you post, I posted anyway.  Should have known better!  Relative to a "broadcast" question, "Reminisce," etc... I finally read the book.  TIGHAR Tracks in this case.

Carrington says the photo was given to him by a british seaman.  So, the place to seek information would be Britain.  However, Carrington's "british seaman" doesn't seem to check out very well.  Who knows where the photo came from?  The photographer could be anyone, anywhere.  For now I guess we wait to see if the special agent comes up with something!
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:42:17 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Label Fragment

Tim Smith wrote:

> I've looked at a lot of labels lately and it is quite rare to see much
>upside down printing.  I don't recall ever seeing an upside down
>UPC code.

We have a 'Grocers Outlet' store nearby.  They buy perfectly good products from major mfgrs. that have all sorts of label and other cosmetic defects.   RC 941
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:47:35 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Tree of names

To Vern -- yeah, the tree just has names, as far as we could tell.  Highly distorted by growth of the tree and in a few cases by splitting of the trunk, but Tonga, our Kiribati representative, had no trouble reading most of them. No Earhart, no Noonan that we could see.  I still have trouble believing that the tree could be old enough; it needs to be looked at by a specialist.

I'd sure like to think that there are still bones there (wherever "there" is), but there's a lot working against us.  On the other hand, as Ric points out, on the other side of the island there were bird bones that seemed to have been preserved in place, on the surface, since Coast Guard times.  And we've seen pig, turtle, and dog bones in the village.  It may be that the crabs quit chewing on bones once the organic content drops below a certain level; we don't have much data on crab dietary behavior.  They might also drag them down holes, which could preserve them at depths of up to half a meter.  It's too bad there's no such thing as a bone detector.

LTM
Tom King
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:04:20 EDT
From:         Jack J.
Subject:      Model of L-10 / raising funds

A model of the Electra has been mentioned on the forum as a possible fund raiser. As a model builder of some 40 years I want to share some information with the forum members and you. Williams Brothers, Inc., a model kit manufacturer of many years has announced that they will release a 1/48th scale kit of the L-10 Electra. The original release date was slated for May of this year but I have not seen the kit yet. They also produce a very nice kit in 1/8th scale of the Pratt and Whitney Wasp engine. It is an earlier and smaller version of the wasp, but a nicely detailed scale replica. TIGHAR could probably purchase the kits at wholesale, given it's 501(c)(3) status, and resell them at retail, ergo make a profit. This might be considered to be an unrelated business activity to your 501(c)(3) status, and cause havoc. I do not think this is a good idea.

TIGHAR could produce a calendar with each month featuring a picture of AE and/or Noonan, and definitely some pictures of the L-10E. Or, TIGHAR could produce a special edition of it's magazine filled with detailed information and pictures about the subject L-10E such as; the engines, the demarcation lines of the international orange paint, the special observation windows for Noonan, the variations in ADF antenna (football vs loop type), the change in registration number from NX 16020 to NR 16020, etc. This is the kind of information modelers eat up, and are willing to pay for, especially pictures they can use to duplicate the detail in their models. If you are interested in pursuing any of this I would be very happy to share more of my thoughts with you.

Given the announced release of the Williams Brother's kit I know from experience that the modelers will be looking for accurate detail information. Who better to provide it than TIGHAR, at a modest revenue raising profit. I would be interested in what the other forum members think of the calendar idea. TIGHAR already does publishing so this should be a snap. A good aviation calendar sells from $15 to $20 (some more than that). Food for thought, God speed, LTM, and all that.
Jack J.
************************************************************

From Ric

These sound like very good ideas.  I'm familar with the Willam's Brothers intention to put out a kit.  I understand that one of the principals has been quite ill but that they still intend to produce the model.

I'll put up a separate posting about the ready-made model we'll be making available soon.

I love the idea of a soft-cover book dedicated to NR16020.  Over the years the airplane has been the subject as almost as much mythology as Amelia (for  example; there was no special observation window for Noonan, etc.).

Calendars we can do.  What do you want to see?  We could do a bunch of old Amelia photos but we'd have to be careful about copyright.  We could do the evolution of Earhart's Electra from construction to Lae.  That would be cool. We also have lots of great expedition photos of Niku, etc.  Maybe do a calendar called The Earhart Project Expeditions.  Or a travelogue piece called  An Island Called Niku.  Or a general TIGHAR calendar with photos from 14 years of TIGHAR expeditions to Maine, New Guinea, Germany, Newfoundland and the Central Pacific.

Ask and ye shall receive.  Lets have some more ideas.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:14:10 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      Postcard from Fred

Ric: following is a letter I received today from  Juliette D., FN's god-
daughter.

Dear Mr. Dawson:

Your letter and copied article arrived earlier this week. Thank you for adding to my memorabilia on Frederick J. Noonan, the navigator for Amelia Earhart's flight of 1937. I am looking forward to receiving from Richard Gillespie, director of TIGHAR, a copy of the journal you mentioned.

The postcard my godfather sent from India  on the 1937 flight has been copied, front and back, to provide any further insight to Noonan's participation in that event. I have also included a copy of the envelope which enclosed the letter my father received from his long time friend.

You will notice that the final figure of the date is blurred. However, I recall that the postcard arrived after their plane disappeared. Vaguely, my memory of their landing in India had something to do with engine or other repairs, so there was a delay. I guess I was excited and thought that it meant the plane had not crashed. Ah, youth!

The date, July 7, which was on the newspaper article, was the day before my fifteenth birthday, and I had spoken to Noonan  when they stopped in New Orleans.

One other bit of information from the letter that I can tell you. Noonan married in Jackson, Mississippi in July 1927. He did not name his wife, however, but noted that she was Irish, like my own mother.

I enjoyed our phone conversation and hope that you can gain a little more insight into Noonan's background. If you happen to find a newspaper copy of the crew of the Pan American Trans-Pacific "China Clipper", let me know. Good luck to you on further research.

Sincerely,

Julette D.

Ric: Not too much information, but interesting nevertheless. The postcard reads:

Dear Juliette:

Just a ----- to say I am sorry not to have seen you when in N.O. and to send my kind regards to your mother and father and the others.

Sincerely,

Fred Noonan
(postmarked Calcutta, 18 Jul 1937)

my note: not to get overly sentimental, but here was a thoughtful individual.

Smooth Sailing,
Ron Dawson 2126

P.S.  If I can figure out my new scanner, I will send you a copy. We ought to have enough handwriting samples to debunk the "note in the bottle " theory by now.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:16:02 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      postcard: a second look

re: the postcard - after shutting down my computer,  it occurs to me that postmark of July 18 couldn't be right, unless its a ghost. On closer look, a stroke of his pen covers the far right side of the N in JUN, making it look like JUL.

Smooth Sailing,
Ron Dawson 2126
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:18:28 EDT
From:         Dick Pingrey
Subject:      landing choices

Don,

Having made two emergency landings due to engine failures in single engine airplanes during my 40 plus years and several thousand hours as a pilot I can assure you that landing on the best landing site is far more important than landing close to a ship wreck.  If at all possible Amelia, or any other reasonable pilot, would land while the engines were still operating (before running out of fuel) and would land where the airplane could be kept intact if at all possible.  Landing a twin engine, or any other airplane, with out engine power would be a last choice regardless if the landing was made on land or sea.

Dick Pingrey 908C
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:22:10 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      Pilot Noonan

Here is the reply from the FAA, dated July 30, 1998, received today.

(address)

Dear Mr. Dawson:

Thank you for your letter requesting verification of certification on Frederick J. Noonan.

Frederick J. Noonan was issued limited commercial pilot certificate 11833 with ratings airplane single engine land, dated January 23, 1930. This letter may be used as verification that our records show the airman has passed all written and practical tests required to obtain the certificate and ratings.

If you require further assistance, please contact the Airmen Certification Branch at (405) 954-3261.

Sincerely,

(signed)
Harold K. Everett
Manager, Airmen Certification Branch

**************************************************************

From Ric

Well, well, well...

I wonder what a "limited" commercial certificate was?
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:23:50 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Electra Models

TIGHAR has made arrangements with a company that produces molded-resin scale models of classic aircraft for the creation of a 1/48th scale model of the Lockheed Model 10E Special in which Earhart disappeared.  (A 1/48th scale rendition of the Electra results in an airplane with a roughly 14 inch wingspan.)

The company has sent me photos of the model of Earhart's plane they have been selling and there are some inaccuracies which they have promised to correct for the TIGHAR limited edition of this model.  We want this model to be as correct as possible to NR16020 as it was at the time it disappeared.  The company has agreed to produce a prototype for us to inspect and spec out corrections.  They'll then be ready to produce the limited edition TIGHAR model which, of course, be available only thorugh TIGHAR.

The only other models of Earhart's Electra that we're aware of are carved mahogany versions produced in the Philippines (again 1/48th scale) which we specked out several years ago. We had 50 made and we have three left. We sold about a dozen numbered examples on stands with individualized polished aluminum plaques for $1,000 as part of the fundraising for Niku II (1991). The rest were unnumbered and came with generic stands for $250. They are very attractive and more accurate than any other available model, but the molded-resin process permits better detailing and more consistenty.  They're also produced here in the States which makes for faster and more reliable production (it took a year to get the Philippine models in hand).

The new limited edition TIGHAR models of Earhart's Electra will come with a specially-inscribed polished black acrylic stand which will include the Earhart Project logo.  The price will be $395.  Realistically, it could be a couple of months before these are ready for delivery (by the time a prototype is produced, we spec out the corrections, and the production run begins). We'll start accepting deposits of $100 now to reserve places in the production run - first come, first served.  Balance due immediately prior to delivery.

We'll also offer a special Collector's Edition in appreciation of a $1,000 contribution toward Niku IIII.  Each Collector's Edition aircraft will carry a constructors number (c/n)  modelled on Lockheed's original system.  Earhart's airplane was c/n 1055 (the 55th Model 10 built).  Collector's Edition Electras will begin with c/n 1055-1.  Each aircraft will come on an individualized stand which will include the Earhart Project logo, the contributor's name and the model's c/n.  We'll start accepting deposits of $250 now Collector's Edition aircraft with c/ns allocated first come first served.

In appreciation of the forum's dedication to the project, we'll hold off making this offer publicly available via our website for two weeks (until August 18).

Incidentally, the Love to Mother T-shirts and magnets will be in this week and we'll be shipping next week.  Thanks for your patience.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:36:39 EDT
From:         unknown
Subject:      a new book

Good morning - Ric - I was just in the web for Amazon books (amazon.com) and noticed a new entry:

                "Amelia Earhart's Daughters:  The Wild and
                 Glorious Story of American Women Aviators
                 from WWII to the Dawn of the Space Age"
                 by Leslie Haynsworth and David Toomey
                 to be published this month

Amazon, as usual, is offering it at a very fair price.
***************************************************************

From Ric

"Amelia Earhart's Daughters" huh.  Maybe Jane Mendelsohn was right about AE and Fred being lovers on a deserted island.  Capt. Bill Scarborough 0075 (that's right 0075) recently sent me his copy of Jane's book "I Was Amelia Earhart." He didn't like it and said he didn't want it back.  I have my own copy.  I don't like it either.  Now I have two copies.  What if this started another deadly forum trend and I was inundated with unwanted copies of I Was Amelia Earhart? I suppose we could send them to Jane so that she can resell them.  Nah.  Needlessly cruel and terminally cheeky.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:45:33 EDT
From:         Ann Hinrica
Subject:      Fundraising ideas

yes, a model and calendar would be great...and perhaps an engagement/weekly planner; stationary; stickers; bookmarks;etc. Just a few ideas.

LTM,
Ann 2101
*************************************************************

From Dennis McGee

I really like the idea of a model of the 10E and that you are thinking of doing both a kit for the modelers and a completed version for us former modelers (all of that glue in the 50s and 60s may account for some of my behavior these days, friends claim).  For the completed model, I assume you'll be doing it in high-grade plastics rather than metal to keep the details (rivets, seams, etc.) in scale.  Most commercial metal models (e.g. Franklin Mint and Danbury Mint) are way out of scale in their detail work, consequently the stuff looks junky, I think.

The TIGHAR calendar idea is great, also, but I would suggest that it be big enough (18" X 24", or so) that it can actually be used for something more than taking up space.  Pat has enough photos in her collection I would think to fill up the 12 pages or so.

But a real HOT seller, I think, would be a Amelia/Princess Di memorial tea cup or plate.  The second in the series would be a FN/Prince Charles shaving mug or shoe horn . . .    Any votes for these?

Spinning Mom's Prop
Dennis 0149
***************************************************************

From Don Neumann

how about some photos of the participants in each of the visits to niku island, along with a brief resume of their respective backgrounds?

don neumann

**************************************************************

From Ric

I've been lobbying for a Dr. Tom King action figure for years.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:48:23 EDT
From:         Don Neumann
Subject:      Re: landing choices

dick:

i agree, thats why i added (if at all possible) !

however, if ric's estimate of the fuel a.e. still had available is correct, i would assume she would have had just enough fuel still available to circle the island to pick-out the best possible, dry, wheels down landing spot & it would seem logical that any otherwise appropriate  spot, reasonably close to the "norwich" wreck, would have been her logical choice.

don neumann
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:59:43 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Electra Models

Please debit my credit card immediately by $100 for the deposit for one of the resin L10's

Thanks

Simons Ellwood  #2120
**************************************************************

From Ric

Thank you sir.  Production slot No. 1 goes to Simon.  Next?
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:02:44 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: campfire sites

>And pray to God it doesn't say KILROY WAS HERE!
>              \\  ~ ~  //
>               (  @ @  )
>  -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo----------    <--- PRETTY GOOD ASCII ART!
>

But Kilroy WAS there!  He built that campfire.  His mark has not been found because it's on the side of the Electra somewhere back in the bush.

I just hope he didn't have some American service woman with him and they both left their civilian shoes!
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:57:45 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Bone detecting

>>It's too bad there's no such thing as a bone detector.<<

It wouldn't exactly be a bone detector but I've thought a lot about the kind of technology used in the hard-rock mining industry to separate desired minerals from huge amounts of ground up rock.  Floatation and gravimetric methods, and even electrostatic methods used to separate titanium dioxide grains from sand.

I end up thinking there is probably not enough difference in surface properties or density of bone and coral sand to accomplish such a separation.  Moreover, it would probably be more difficult, under the circumstances, than just sifting and looking.

On the subject of bones... We have measurements on the skull.  Do we also have measurements on the long bones?  Both Earhart and Noonan appear to be the tall, long-legged types.  Is the "short, stocky" characterization actually correct? Are we deluding ourselves in thinking these could possibly be the bones of either Earhart or Noonan?
***************************************************************

From Ric

Before I reply to Vern's question I want to state that I have no formal training or expertise in what I am about to shoot off my mouth about.

Of the various guesses Dr. Hoodless made about the individual whose bones were found on Niku in 1940, his assessment of height and stature would appear to be the most shaky.

The human body has six types of long bones.  They are:

humerus - the upper arm bone, shoulder to elbow
radius - the shorter, thicker forearm bone
ulna - the longer, skinnier forearm bone
femur - the thigh bone, hip to knee
tibia - the shin bone, the thick knee to foot bone
fibula - the thinner knee to foot bone

Of course, a complete person has two of each type.

Of these twelve possible long bones, the remains found on Niku included only six:
left humerus
right radius
right femur
left femur
right tibia
left fibula

As you can see, both ulnas (ulni?) were missing, and in no case were all the bones of any one limb present.  In addition, Dr. Hoodless specifically stated that the bones were very "weather-beaten."  Gallagher said they were damaged by coconut crabs.  It is not unreasonable to expect that there was significant loss at the ends of the bones where joint cartilage might be particularly attractive to the crabs.  It is my understanding that loss in these areas makes the accurate assessment of stature much more difficult.

Curiously (to me anyway), Dr. Hoodless chose to use only three of the long bones to estimate the person's height and stature:
the humerus measured 32.4 cm
the tibia measured 37.2 cm
the radius measured 24.5 cm

He didn't include measurements for either of the femurs in his notes.

He applied a standard formula known as Karl Pearson's Formula to the length of the humerus and got an estimated height for the individual of 5 ft. 4.3 inches. By the same method, the tibia indicated a height of 5 ft. 5.7 inches. The radius indicated a height of 5 ft. 6.5 inches. He averaged these and estimated the individual's height at 5 ft. 5.5 inches.

Amelia Earhart's pilot's license says she was 5 ft. 8 inches tall. Fred Noonan listed his height as 6 ft. 1/4 inch.

Karl Pearson's Formula is still very much in use but has been much revised since 1941.  We have yet to have a forensic anthropologist review Dr. Hoodless's work.

Between the comparison of skull measurements with scaled photos of Earhart's and Noonan's heads, and a modern assessment of the reliability of Hoodless's estimates, we should be able to get a better picture of the likelihood, or unlikelihood, that the bones found on Niku belonged to either of our friends.

Love to mother,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Aug 1998 08:25:13 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Fundraising ideas

Re:  I've been lobbying for a Dr. Tom King action figure for years.

It'd probably be more active than the original.  Actually, I like the idea of a calendar, and we can have a contest to decide what speculative anniversaries to note in early July.

Props over Niku
Tom King
**************************************************************

From Ric

July 2 - arrival at Niku, landing on reef-flat.
July 2 through July 4 - attempts to communicate by radio
July 5 - aircraft destroyed by surf
July 9 - overflight by search aircraft from USS Colorado
July 12 - AE and FN begin exploration of island
July 14 - AE and FN establish temporary camp near southeastern lagoon shore.
July 15 - FN unable to travel.  AE continues alone.

Beyond that I'd have to speculate. :)

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Aug 1998 08:47:16 EDT
From:         Andrew McKenna
Subject:      coral rubble pile

>When pressed further he responded, "As far as I remember the debris you
>speak of lookedlike a pile of coral sand.  I concluded that it would be from
>Arundel's workers because they were the only people on the island prior to our
>arrival."

"a pile of coral sand" sounds like a GRAVE to me.  Might explain why only one skeleton was found on the surface.  What do you think?

Andrew McKenna 1045
*************************************************************
From Ric

Sort of a natural jump ain't it?  Niku is not a place where you casually build sand piles if you don't have a good reason and even if Arundel's workers were down that far on the island for some reason it's hard to imagine that they were environmentally-correct enough to bury their garbage.  On Niku, you bury something to keep it away from the crabs.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:39:20 EDT
From:         Jack Streight
Subject:      Calendar specifics

Since you asked for "it". here are some more ideas for the calendar. Front cover - TIGHAR emblem re. AE and any obligatory acknowledgements. Each month a picture of AE and/or AE and Noonan, and or other important folks in her life, e.g. Paul Mantz, Putnam, etc. Dates in the various months should note the various holidays AND the date AE set her various records. These could be small notations in the bottom of the date box, e.g. July 2nd. AE last seen at Lae New Guinea. AE was associated with Lockheed aircraft via the L-10 and several Lockheed Vegas, I believe the Vegas were -5s. The Vega she crossed the Atlantic in is in the Air and Space Museum in DC. The Vega she used to cross the Gulf of Mexico is purported to be in a museum in Philadelphia PA.

Consider asking Lockheed to be a sponsor for the calendar. Further consider asking Beech Nut to be a sponsor as they had her flying a Pitcairn autogiro with their logo emblazoned on the sides of the aircraft. You would have to include the picture of the autogiro in the calendar, and they may have a few neat pictures they would let you use for the calendar, and later for a book, or special edition of TIGHAR Tracks.

Then there if Pratt and Whitney. They may want to jump on the band wagon and be a corporate sponsor. AE said many nice things about the reliability of their engines, great advertising! The national archives has many great pictures of AE and her aircraft, as does Purdue University, Lockheed, P& W, Etc. I would think that any sponsors you get would allow you to reproduce the pictures for a charitable cause without the royalties, if indeed the copyrights have not run out after 60 years. The old copyright laws allowed for 14 years plus an extension of 14 more years. The new copyright laws, changed in 1978 allow much longer periods for certain items.

Most calendars are most likely at the printers by now but a calendar dedicated to AE could be produced for the 1999 year by someone of your aptitude to get things done. Speaking of the 99's, they would be a good source of sales, and maybe even sponsorship.

I'll go back to the drawing board for now. Please let me know when my ideas
have worn out their welcome!

Jack J. Streight and level, or at least not more than 15 degrees of bank! LTM
****************************************************************

From Ric

As you can imagine, in the course of ten years of trying to raise money for this project (and occasionally succeeding) we have some experience with some of the issues you raise.  For example:

1.  The issue of copyright of Earhart photos is extremely murky.  Most photos are claimed by one or more collections who police their alleged copyright with varying degrees of rigor.  The same photo is often credited to different sources in different publications.  Then there's the outfit in Indiana which claims to have ALL rights to the use of Earhart's name and image via the family.  As long as we use photos in our magazine and website as part of an educational/historical information service we're in pretty good shape. Outright commercial exploitation  is another matter.  The last thing we need is a copyright infringement lawsuit, so we need to tread carefully in this matter.

2.  We have repeatedly asked Lockheed, and most recently Lockheed/Martin, for sponsorship of various aspects of the project.  They have been very friendly but, so far, have declined to participate.  We stay in touch. (Incidentally, the Vega that is in the Smithsonian is the same one that was in Philadephia's Franklin Institute.)

3.  Last year Pratt & Whitney sponsored the Flight of the Finch to the tune of more than five million dollars.  I have met with the VP for Corporate Communications who handled that deal.  As he put it, "We're out of the Amelia business."

4.  You've never tried to deal with the 99s, have you?

I'm not trying to be negative.  I'm just speaking from experience. Fundraising for historical projects as popular and controversial as Earhart is difficult, tricky and fraught with traps.  You can get stuck with a lot of expensive inventory on an item that sounded like a great idea but just didn't catch on.  You can spend thousands of hours courting corporate sponsorships that never happen.  You can find yourself embroiled in a lawsuit which, even if you win, costs thousands of dollars and hours to defend.  We've made all of those mistakes.  We'll probably make more, but at least they'll be new ones.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:45:48 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      Production slot #2

Chalk me up for one of the L10 models.  Charge my credit card the $100 bucks deposit.

Love to Mother,

Bob

***************************************************************

From Ric

Thank you sir.  Production slot #2 goes to Bob.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:59:06 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Production slot #3

Electra model production slot #3 goes to Jeff Lange, TIGHAR member 0748C.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:46:09 EDT
From:         Susan Bound
Subject:      Fundraising ideas

I would suggest some inexpensively priced materials that people on limited budget can afford.  Buttons, T-shirts (especially very large sized ones i.e. Texas Small), screen savers, calendars, mugs, mouse pads and the like can be produced inexpensively and sold.  These things could be sold through your WEB page, or perhaps in a tie in with amazon.com.  After all, not everyone can afford a presentation model.  Surely there are a number of photos that could become available for use.  Does Amelia's family have the copyright to any photo's they would be willing to share for this purpose?

A screen saver could have pictures of Niku with all the search sites marked or a panoramic view of the island.  I also like your idea of the CDROM, especially if it's priced within reason.

Susie

**************************************************************

From Ric

These are good ideas.  We do need "low end" items but there's a point where the cost of accounting, handling and shipping negates the benefit.  For example, a $2 button wouldn't make any sense even if we got them for free.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:23:56 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Quick L10 question....

Quick question - regarding the engine cowl dimensions for the L10E, can you confirm that the INNER dimension for the ring cowl is in fact 37 inches as stated in the Wreck Photo article on the TIGHAR web site ?

The reason I'm asking is the photo in the latest TRACKS of the cowl you found at Pensacola seems to show the outer diameter as 53.5 inches, but the tape reads  roughly 47.25 inches on the inner edge. This gives the "frontal thickness" of the ring cowl as about 6.25 inches all around, which would yield an inner cowl dimension of about 41 inches, not 37.

Thanks


Simon Ellwood #2120
**************************************************************
From Ric

That was not a quick question but I'm glad you asked it.  I had to go back and reconstruct where our various cowling measurements came from.  On 10/14/97 I sent the following message to Jeff Glickman at Photek summarizing our research up to that point.
*************
Jeff,

Allow me to summarize what we've learned about the wreck photo so far.

1.  The structures we can see appear to be consistent with those of a Lockheed Model 10. Some of which (such as the flaired base of the windshield centerpost) are quite distinctive.  Conversely, we have found nothing in the photo (so far) that is inconsistent with the Model 10.

2.  A rather exhaustive search has, so far, failed to turn up a strong competitor as an alternative aircraft-type.  Research continues.  You are currently attempting to determine whether the dark area in the left foreground is an object (possibly a float as Frank Lombardo has suggested), or a shadow.

3.  Lockheed specs for the Model 10 call for a 9 foot propeller.  We're now quite certain that, as of its last official inspection, Earhart's airplane did, indeed, have 9 foot propellers.  Assuming that the airplane in the photo is a Lockheed 10 with a 9 foot prop, the external cowling dimension is 54 inches (error factor +,-1.34 inches) and the diameter of the cowling opening is 37.1 inches (error factor of +,- .3 inches).

4.  We have actual external cowling and cowling opening measurements for the Model 10A (47 inches and 33 inches respectively) which effectively eliminate the possibility that the airplane in the photo is a Lockheed 10A (or the similarly small-engined 10B). If the airplane in the photo is an Electra it must be either a 10C or 10E, both of which used the larger Pratt & Whitney R1340 engine.

5.  Getting actual measurements for the big-engined Electras is complicated by the fact that no 10Cs survive and only one 10E (c/n 1042 owned by Grace McGuire) exists and the owner will not permit anyone to have access to the aircraft.  We know that the actual engine diameter of the10E's  R1340 S3H1 is 51.6 inches and have estimated the external cowling diameter at 52 inches. McGuire has made a rough measurement of the external cowling diameter of her airplane which she says is 52 inches "give or take an inch" and has measured the cowling opening (a much easier task) at 37 inches.  We'll try to get a more precise external measurement from McGuire but, at present, we can say that the proportions of the engine on the airplane in the wreck photo are consistent with the "big-engined" Electras (the 10C and 10E).  Nine aircraft of that type are unaccounted for.  Earhart's 10E Special is one of them.

6.  The only apparent structural feature which offers a possibility for further isolation of which unaccounted-for 10C or 10E this may be is the starboard firewall.  We do not see mounting features for the standard 8.5 gallon oil tank and we do see what may be attach points for the brackets that held Earhart's larger tank (probably 11 gallons).  Of the unaccounted-for Electras Earhart's is the only one known to have had non-standard oil tanks.  We have not yet been able to identify other structures visible on the firewall.

Please let me know if I've accurately characterized where we stand.

Love to Mother,
Ric
******************************

On October 16, 1997  Jeff replied:

Ric,

As I am not a aviation/aircraft expert I do not feel qualified to address such issues.  My comments below are in CAPS to distinguish them from your text.

Love to Mother,

Jeff

In a message dated 97-10-14 10:26:56 EDT, you write:

Allow me to summarize what we've learned about the wreck photo so far.

 1.  The structures we can see appear to be consistent with those of a Lockheed Model 10. Some of which (such as the flaired base of the windshield centerpost) are quite distinctive.  Conversely, we have found nothing in the photo (so far) that is inconsistent with the Model 10.

I DO NOT KNOW IF THE FLAIRED BASE OF THE WINDSHIELD CENTERPOST IS A DISTINCTIVE FEATURE AS I HAVE NOT EXAMINED A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF OTHER AIRPLANE CONFIGURATIONS.  I AGREE THAT THE STRUCTURES WE HAVE EXAMINED THUS FAR ARE CONSISTENT WITH A LOCKHEED MODEL 10, AND AS OF YET, WE HAVE NOT IDENTITIFIED ANYTHING INCONSISTENT WITH A MODEL 10.

 2.  A rather exhaustive search has, so far, failed to turn up a strong competitor as an alternative aircraft -type.  Research continues.  You are currently attempting to determine whether the dark area in the left foreground is an object (possibly a float as Frank Lombardo has suggested), or a shadow.

I HAVE NOT PARTICIPATED IN THE SEARCH FOR OTHER CANDIDATE AIRCRAFT SO I CANNOT COMMENT AS TO WHETHER THE SEARCH HAS BEEN EXHAUSTIVE.  I AM CURRENTLY ANALYZING THE DARK AREA IN THE LEFT FOREGROUND OF THE PHOTOGRAPH TO DETERMINE WHAT CAUSED THIS IMAGE ON THE FILM.

 3.  Lockheed specs for the Model 10 call for a 9 foot propeller.  We're now quite certain that, as of its last official inspection, Earhart's airplane did, indeed, have 9 foot propellers.  Assuming that the airplane in the photo is a Lockheed 10 with a 9 foot prop, the external cowling dimension is 54 inches (error factor +,-1.34 inches) and the diameter of the cowling opening is 37.1 inches (error factor of +,- .3 inches).

THE FIGURES YOU PRESENT ABOVE ACCURATELY CONVEY THE RESULTS OF MY ANALYSIS.

 4.  We have actual external cowling and cowling opening measurements for the Model 10A (47 inches and 33 inches respectively) which effectively eliminate the possibility that the airplane in the photo is a Lockheed 10A (or the similarly small-engined 10B). If the airplane in the photo is an Electra it must be either a 10cC or 10E, both of which used the larger Pratt & Whitney R1340 engine.

I AGREE WITH YOU, PROVIDED THAT ALL MODEL 10'S USED 9' 0" PROPS.

 5.  Getting actual measurements for the big-engined Electras is complicated by the fact that no 10Cs survive only one 10E (c/n 1042 owned by Grace McGuire) exists and the owner will not permit anyone to have access to the aircraft.  We know that the actual engine diameter of the10E's  R1340 S3H1 is 51.6 inches and have estimated the external cowling diameter at 52 inches. McGuire has made a rough measurement of the external cowling diameter of her airplane which she says is 52 inches "give or take an inch" and has measured the cowling opening (a much easier task) at 37 inches.  We'll try to get a more precise external measurement from McGuire but, at present, we can say that the proportions of the engine on the airplane in the wreck photo are consistent with the "big-engined" Electras (the 10C and 10E).  Nine aircraft of that type are unaccounted for.  Earhart's 10E Special is one of them.

I HAVE NOT INVESTIGATED WHICH AIRPLANES ARE UNACCOUNTED FOR, SO I AM RELYING ON YOUR RESEARCH.  I AM IN AGREEMENT WITH THE REMAINDER OF THIS.

 6.  The only apparent structural feature which offers a possibility for further isolation of which unaccounted-for 10C or 10E this may be is the starboard firewall.  We do not see mounting features for the standard 8.5 gallon oil tank and we do see what may be attach points for the brackets that held Earhart's larger tank (probably 11 gallons).  Of the unaccounted-for Electras, Earhart's is the only one known to have had non-standard oil tanks. We have not yet been able to identify other structures visible on the firewall.

AGAIN, I HAVE NOT INVESTIGATED ANY OF THE AIRCRAFT CONFIGURATION DATA AND AM 
RELYING UPON YOU TO PERFORM THIS RESEARCH.  I AM IN AGREEMENT THAT THIS APPEARS TO BE A USEFUL AVENUE OF INVESTIGATION.
 
********************

As you can see from the above, the 37 inch internal opening dimension came from Grace McGuire.  I don't recall whether I made a separate verifying measurement of the cowling in Pensacola, but if I did I didn't take a photograph.

I certainly see your logic and I see two possibilities:

1. McGuire's measurement was fully four inches off and the correct internal measurement is 41 inches, in which case the cowling in the wreck photo is unlike that of a 10E.

2. McGuire's measurement was correct and her cowling is different from the one in Pensacola.  This would mean that there were at least two types of 10E cowlings. I don't know how likely that is, but we also don't know for sure which, if either, of the two cowlings measured were original Lockheed equipment.  This is a perennial problem in aviation historical investigations because any airplane that has survived throughout a long service life is likely to have had parts replaced and complete logs are seldom available.

Bottom line:  We can't say for sure what the dimensions of Earhart's cowlings were.   We could do the same scaling to a known photo of her airplane as we did to the wreck photo but, unfortunately, that would again take a great deal of Jeff's time.  He does this work for TIGHAR as a contribution and, right now, whatever time he has to spend we hope he'll spend on our skull comparison exercise.

I'll be interested in any thoughts you have on the matter.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:07:34 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Gurr Letter and Radio Equipment

The more I read Gurr's account of the Electra's radio installation, the more questions it raises....

Gurr states that when he was called upon to look at the radio system for the very first time, he found the receiver inoperative.  Amelia had flown from the East Coast to California without a working HF receiver, after having had the equipment checked out by Bell Labs.

Could it be possible....  That someone's big feet got entangled in the antenna lead, since the receiver was located beneath the co-pilot's seat, and pulled it loose?  Is it possible that this happened again, at a much more critical phase of the flight?

Also, with regard to Gurr's story about the acquisition of a receiver in a box marked US Navy, which he says was installed in the aircraft:

I have been puzzling over this one.  Gurr says it was a four band receiver, covering up to about 20 MHz.  Well, as far as I know, the Navy had no four-band receivers covering up to that frequency in the 30s, for use in aircraft.  The Navy's standard aircraft receiver was designed in 1928 by Western Electric, and was designated the RU series (RU-8,RU-11,RU-17 etc, depending upon the modification/production series, and whether the gear was to be installed in a 14 volt or a 28 volt electrical system).  The RU radio was rather primitive.  It was not a superheterodyne design, but a TRF set and was not band-switching, but used plug-in coil boxes to change the tuning range (some of the coil sets were dual-range, usually covering one low-frequency band and one high-frequency, i.e. 195-400 KHz and 2500-4700 KHz; these were selected remotely using a switch driven by a flexible cable connected to a selector operated by the pilot).  Changing coils would have been done by the radio operator if the crew included one.  The radio was tuned from a remote "coffee grinder" head in the cockpit, with a dial scale calibrated in "0-100" marks, not directly in frequency.  The various coil boxes covered the range 195 KHz to 13.575 MHz in individual bands.

The companion transmitter (or at least the one usually paired with the RU) was the GF series, also using plug-in coil boxes, covering 2500 through 7700 KHz in various ranges; or the GO and GP series transmitters which were very high power for the time (100 or more watts out) and used aboard large planes like PBYs.

I can't believe AE had one of those  RU receivers... too confusing to use it!

These radios were used in everything from Boeing F3B biplanes, to PBY Catalinas, to early SBD Dauntlesses and SB2C Helldivers, to F4F Wildcats. They served all through WW2, even when paired with some far more modern transmitters like the Collins Autotune.  The Navy had, so far as I know (and I am still digging on this) only one multiband aircraft receiver at the start of the war, which means it was developed in the late 30s:  the RCA-built ARB receiver which was a four-band superheterodyne covering about 150 KHz to 9.05 MHz.  The ARB was a darn good radio; and it did have the type of antenna input circuit needed for use with a DF loop.  It did not have DF capability above 1500 KHz, at all.

The other multiband receivers the Navy used in aircraft were all low frequency radios.  The DZ series receivers were intended for use in navigation, i.e., DF.  They covered about 15 KHz to 600 KHz in three or four bands.  No HF capability on this radio.

Later Navy aircraft radio setups used multiple receivers, each covering a single frequency range, to cover the range 150 KHz through 9.1 MHz.  I refer here, to the RAX, ARA, AN/ARC-5 equipments.  After that, the switch to VHF for air-to-air and air-to-ground was underway (by 1943-44).  The Navy did have the AN/ARR-15 multiband set by mid WW2 (covering up to 18 MHz) but it was under development in 1941.

By the way, the HF range of frequencies commonly used by Naval Air was 3 MHz through 9.1 MHz.   This was probably true from the early 30s through mid-WW2.   Long-range patrol planes, bombers and transports had (later in WW2) the capability to work up to 18 MHz.

Admittedly, there are equipments I may have missed in my research; but to my knowledge, most military radio gear in the 30s (until about 1938-39) was several generations behind civilian equipment.

My point:  I sort of doubt (note: sort of) that AE got hold of any Navy receiver she'd have wanted to use... or that a civilian radio technician who was "up" on the communications hardware scene would have advised her to take along.  The stuff was either too antiquated, too user-unfriendly or too specialized.  For those reasons I have questions about the Gurr account.

Gurr may well have taken the radios home to check them out, using whatever kind of power supply or supplies he could cobble up to get the right voltages.  He probably never did a complete system bench check at home -- this involves all parts, control heads, accessories etc. together, not just the radios themselves.  As those who have worked in avionics or on military radios well know, many times the problems occur in CORDAGE -- wiring harnesses, plugs etc.  Of course if he test-flew the setup, hopefully any problems would surface... unless they were highly intermittent in nature, which can drive you clean out of your mind.  Or may be altogether missed until a critical moment or when a particular mode of operation is selected. That's the stuff we blame on "gremlins."  (Hey, I believe in those things!)

Also, aircraft gear is specialized in construction.  It is no simple matter to switch out an installation.  Cables have to be made up... a complete new weight-and-balance has to be run on the aircraft... at least for the first-in-a-type for the new installation; after that it's a matter of following the tech order.   Above all, the gear has to fit the space. Considering that remote control boxes, tuning heads etc. would have had to be changed, I feel it is not very likely that any "quick" substitution was made.

Can any former Navy aviation radiomen help us out further?

73 GA  GL  Best DX  AR
Mike E. the Radio Historian
***************************************************************

From Ric

A phenomenon I have noted time and again in dealing with the Earhart case is that anyone who had dealings with Amelia around the time of the world flight tended, in later years, to greatly inflate their role in the drama.

Albert Bresnick, a kid that Putnam hired to take some publicity photos, emerged during the 1980s as Amelia Earhart's Personal Photographer and sold authentic prints of his photos.  He also claimed that she had once hinted to him that she was pregnant, and that she considered taking him along on the flight.

Before his death earlier this year, Earhart's mechanic Ruckins "Bo" McKneely also regretted not going along on the flight, as if that was ever an option.  Harry Balfour, the radio operator in Lae, New Guinea later claimed that Earhart had invited him to come along on the Howland flight.

Joseph Gurr's name does not appear anywhere in any of the documentation or publicity I have seen concerning the aircraft or the flight.  I've never seen a photo that claims to show him with AE.  The letter to Goerner is the sole piece of evidence I know of that indicates he had anything to do with Earhart, and it was written in 1982.  I'm not terribly surprised that it doesn't stand up well to knowledgeable scrutiny.

Love to mother,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:32:22 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Noonan Proj. LA help

We need a little help from our friends in tracking Noonan. Our previous Los Angeles volunteer has, like, disappeared. Just another Earhart related mystery. So if you like spending time in libraries and have access to a major one (ideally the central LA library or a university) we could use your help. Just plunk the keys on your keyboard and email me to volunteer.
We thank you.

Blue skies, -jerry
**************************************************************
So, American.  You are surprised we speak your ranguage.  Who will be the next victim?
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:07:27 EDT
From:         Tom Cook
Subject:      cowling opening

As I posted on 3 June 98,  picture # 53 in "Sound of Wings" shows AE's 10 when new at about the same angle as the wreck photo, by measuring the cowl openings  and the propellers  from tip to center of hub  in both pictures I concluded that they were the same size, APPROX. 36" (actually I intended to say  approx. 36 or 37", but I left off the 37.
TC 2127
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:26:02 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Re: Gurr Letter and Radio Equipment

> The more I read Gurr's account of the Electra's radio installation, the
>more questions it raises....

And some differences between his letter & Q&A.  Letter says Navy rcvr. ...to 20 mhz, while Q & A says ..to 22 mc .. I would be tempted to believe the latter because it used the idiom of the times, and throughout most of his career.  However the diference is of no significance.

> Gurr states that when he was called upon to look at the radio system for
>the very first time, he found the receiver inoperative.  Amelia had flown
>from the East Coast to California without a working HF receiver, after
>having had the equipment checked out by Bell Labs.

Of greater significance is the loss of LF for navigation across the country.  She would not be the first to cross the continent by pilotage, but what a royal pain that would be!   Or did she have a navigator or was her adf installed at that time?  If either, forget the foregoing.

> Could it be possible....  That someone's big feet got entangled in the
> antenna lead, since the receiver was located beneath the co-pilot's seat,
> and pulled it loose?  Is it possible that this happened again, at a much
> more critical phase of the flight?

Therein lies a real possibility, but only if the antenna lead did not have a 'screw-on' plug.  The type of ant. input 'terminal' of both the W.E. & the 'navy rcvr' should be listed on some drawing, spec sheet, or doc.  That would make or break a real possibility.     RC  #941
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:31:00 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Bone measurements

Ric wrote:

>Before I reply to Vern's question I want to state that I have no formal
>training or expertise in what I am about to shoot off my mouth about.

But you done good!

>Of the various guesses Dr. Hoodless made about the individual whose bones were
>found on Niku in 1940, his assessment of height and stature would appear to be
>the most shaky.

It's unfortunate that he didn't measure the femurs, I understand these provide the best estimate of height.  But he was dealing with pretty beat up old bones.

I suspect he was having to guess at the original shape of the ends and total length of the bones. He probably used those he believed he could make the best guesses about.  He ends up with a height estimate of 65.5 inches (the average). This is 2.5 inches short for AE (68 inches). And 6.75 inches short for FN (72.25 inches)

It looks close for AE but 6.75 inches short is pretty far off for FN.  Dr. Isaac said, "male... Polynesian, elderly."  I believe Dr. Hoodless also said, "male... but of european or mixed origin."  Only half a pelvis was found. Gender determination may be uncertain.  To connect to Amelia and Fred, we need the gender or the height to be badly off. Maybe the skull measurements will provide some kind of answer.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:40:58 EDT
From:         Tom Ruprecht
Subject:      Model data

Just a note to support what another modeler wrote earlier- an issue of TIGHAR Tracks devoted to details of the Electra would be of great interest to those interested in the subject.  There is a niche market for such books as one can see from any hobby shop.  The hesitation on relying on it (as worth the trouble for significant fundraising) is my feeling and experience that it won't sell in large number because the subject doesn't have guns. Civil aircraft are not nearly as popular as military ones.  If it is produced, perhaps as a double issue (saving you one or more issues' work), extra copies should be sold @ at least $20 each to non members.  Color three-views and detail views of hard-to-model items (cockpit, interior, landing gear, *antennas*) make modelers salivate.  It should also be made available or at least announced through major modeling publications (a review should be free for the cost of sending them a copy) and the IPMS Quarterly.

Rupe   1465C
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:45:04 EDT
From:         Jim Thompson
Subject:      Aerial photos of Niku

Can anyone tell me where I can obtain aerial photographs of Nikumaroro? I've read several references to them in the archives. It would be helpful to be able to match areas that I read about in the forum with photograph(s)of them. [The Canton photo has been very useful in this respect!] I've come across one air photo in the 1997 "GIS World" article about TIGHAR's work, but it doesn't explicitly list any directional orientation.

Would it be possible/worthwhile to create an on-line photo archive?

Thank you.

james thompson

(P.S. Are new TIGHAR members considered "cubs"?)
***************************************************************

From Ric

No.  We expect and encourage new TIGHARs to roar as loadly as the old guard.

Our website makeover (now under construction) will include a photo tour of Niku including aerial photos.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:49:27 EDT
From:         Natko Katicic
Subject:      fund raising

I am new to the forum (I am doing my best though to read the LOGs back to November) so I don't know if this has been said already. I am also not familiar with U.S. legislation so this aspect of my ideas eludes me. Still, I would like to chip in with a few suggestions for fund raising.

I think that not only members would very much welcome the possibility to buy a video tape with the expedition coverage that was aired on ABC  and whatever other media coverage there is, including maybe original footage the expedition team shot on site. I believe the copyright side should be OK (for a small royalty maybe).

Don't forget to make PAL (as opposed to NTSC) copies for your European audience.

You could set up a "TIGHAR Shop" on the web site (with a secure server maybe for credit card transactions) and offer all those merchandising articles (T-Shirts, Sweat-shirts for the winter, Model Electras, Video Tapes, TIGHAR Tracks, Niku Maps, Cofee Mugs, Fridge magnets, ...) for sale.

Hope this was a constructive contribution,

Love To Mother,
natko.
P.S: The Prop Spins For Me.

***************************************************************

From Ric

ABC did not produce videotapes of their show because they didn't want to go to the expense of clearing the footage they used from other sources (for example, clips from Flight for Freedom).  We could edit together something from the videotape we've shot ourselves and we've considered doing that.  Just a matter of devoting the time to it.

We do intend to set up a TIGHAR Shop on the website as you suggest.  The secure financial transaction software is available and we're presently struggling with the mechanics of how it will fit into the overall site.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:54:31 EDT
From:         Mike Evereet
Subject:      Earhart's radio equipment

The type of antenna connection used on aircraft radios in the 30s and 40s was, almost universally, a type of "push-post" or spring-loaded binding post, which also had a ceramic feed through insulator passing through the radio's case or panel.  Screw-on fittings were not in general use until years later.

Coaxial cable was not used to interconnect most airborne radio gear until the advent of VHF communications, when designers settled on making everything work into a fixed impedance, standardized at 50 ohms.  HF gear fell under the same design philosophy at the same time, and any antenna tuners or loading networks were consequently designed to match a complex impedance like an aircraft antenna to that value.  This came about after World War II.

Up until that time, aircraft radios were designed to work into a wide range of antennas, over a broad impedance range.  Use of coaxial cable would have caused many problems in such a design environment. High radio frequency voltages developed when working a transmitter into a high impedance load (several hundred or several thousand ohms) which might not be completely matched at the frequency, would cause the cable to heat up or arc over. Therefore, open-wire leads insulated with ceramic beads were in general use. The receiver connection might be as simple as a length of cloth insulated heavy wire between the receiver and the terminal on the transmit-receive (antenna) relay.

Coaxial cables were, however, used to interconnect components where shielding of the leads was important, or where high radio frequency voltages were not involved.  One specific instance is the lead from the sense antenna to the antenna input of a DF receiver, and Bendix gear used coaxial input with screw-on fittings.  A reason to use shielded cable at the lower frequencies used for DF (200-1500 KHz) is to keep out electrical noises generated inside the aircraft.  This is a real problem at low frequencies, somewhat less so at HF.

I would be willing to bet that the Western Electric receiver used a push post.

Gurr stated that when he first looked at the Electra to check the non functioning HF receiver, he found it under the copilot's seat... the antenna lead was disconnected or pulled loose.

These push-posts were not safety-wired.  I can't ever recall seeing one with provisions to safety-wire it, and this is a result of experience with Collins, Aircraft Radio Corporation, Philco, Wells-Gardner, Western Electric and other manufacturers' products.

As for the "Navy Receiver" Gurr cites:

The only four band Navy receiver  within this time frame which I am aware of, for aircraft use, was the ARB series which covered 195-400, 400-1500, 1500-6000 and 6000-9050 KHz bands.  This was also designed for use in a 28 volt system.  What voltage did the Electra use?  (I don't think a 14 volt ARB counterpart was ever made.)  The next potential candidate would be an RBM or RBS receiver, but these were designed for ground use.  They were substantially identical units, but the RBM had a lightweight aluminum case and had a 12 -14 volt dynamotor power supply.  The RBS was in a heavy steel box with a separate 115V AC 60 hertz supply.  Neither the RBM nor RBS could be remotely controlled or tuned.  They were not suited for aircraft use.  Besides, the RBM/RBS high-frequency sets covered only 2-20 MHz in four bands.  There was a companion low frequency RBM/RBS covering 200-2000 KHz in four bands, so two receivers would have been needed to cover the entire range Gurr speaks of.  I do not think this system was a possibility.  Every other Navy receiver of which I am aware, from this time period, was a big heavy clunker useful for anchoring battleships if it went bad.  The aircraft stuff all used plug-in coils, not bandswitching, until about 1939-40.

Again, if any old-time Navy radiomen can shed more light, please feel free to jump in.

73  GM  GL  Best DX  AR
Mike E. the Radio Historian
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:59:48 EDT
From:         Tom Cook
Subject:      date of post re Wreck Photo

I posted that I had measured picture #53 in "Sound of Wings on 3 June, I actually posted the dimensions on 20 June, sorry about that.  TC 2127
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:40:39 EDT
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      sex identification of bones

In addition to my M.D., I have a B.A. in anthropology.  In theory, it is easy to identify the sex of a pelvis by looking at the angle formed by the "Sciatic notch".  In practice, there are always effeminate male skeletons and android female skeletons, so there is considerable overlap.  Statistics and photos of the pubic symphysis (the place where the pelvic bones join in front) were collected from the re-patriated skeletal remains of Korean war dead.  The characteristics of this area change with age, and you can get an approximate age as well.

From an archeological perspective, these would be considered "recent" bones. The sex could be definitively determined by DNA testing in most modern forensic pathology labs. If you had the bones!    Dan Postellon

**************************************************************
From Ric

Because he had half of a pelvis (innominate bone) to work with, we've considered the sex identification to be one of the more reliable parts of Dr. Hoodless's opinion about the individual whose partial remains were found. Would you agree?
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:46:27 EDT
From:         Deacon Michael Cantrelle
Subject:      Fred Noonan

Real new at this.  Don't know if I can request this, but here goes.

Looking for photos of Fred Noonan for a friend who happens to be his Godchild.

Searched the net but was only able to find one small photo with Amelia. Would be very grateful for any help.

Thanks,

Deacon Michael Cantrelle

***************************************************************

From Ric

Noonan's godchild?  That's pretty interesting.  We're curious to know more. Who were the parents and what was there connection to Noonan, and where did this all take place and when?

I'll send you a JPEG photo of Noonan in a separate email.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:51:19 EDT
From:         Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Re: Earhart's radio equipment

One worthy source concerning themselves with vintage radio equipment is an organization to which I belong, called the Antique Wireless Association, Inc. This association is a non-profit historical organization concerned with radio collectors, historians, and old-time wireless operators. They publish a journal called "The Old-Timer's Bulletin," with many useful articles, photos, and schematics pertaining to radio equipment from Marconi wireless days to the advent of the transistor. They may be reached at the following location (they also operate an antique radio museum!):

Antique Wireless Association, Inc.
Box E, Breesport, N.Y. 14816
Telephone: (607)739-5443

Another antique radio xmtr/rcvr info source, dealing with both military and non-military vintage equipment is Electric Radio Press, Inc., which publishes a monthly journal called "Electric Radio," appropriately enough, to which I subscribe. They can be reached at:

Electric Radio
14643  County Road G
Cortez, Colorado 81321-9575
Phone/FAX (970) 564-9185;  E-mail: er@frontier.net

Anyone interested in two good radio history sources, check these out! I suspect that someone in either/both of the groups may know a great deal about the AE/Electra radios.

My prop spinneth over,   ---- Dr. Gene Dangelo, N3XKS          :)
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:27:55 EDT
From:         Dick Strippel
Subject:      Re: Earhart's radio equipment

RIGHT ON, MIKE CONGRATS ON AN ACCURATE WELL-THOUGHT-OUT MESSAGE. TOO BAD RIC PROBABLY WON'T READ IT WITH HIS CLOSED KNOW-IT ALL MIND 
--DICK

*************************************************************

From Ric

Sorry to disappoint you Dick, but Mike's accurate and well-thought-out message prompted me to email him directly and recruit his help in trying to identify Artifact 2-3-V-1, the cables and connectors which have been so difficult for us to pin down.  I'll probably be FedExing the artifact to him next week.

For new forum members:  Don't mind Dick.  He's our resident curmudgeon.  We love him.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:54:23 EDT
From:         Jack
Subject:      Pan Am report

Just back from a month's vacation and have a couple of quickies.

I was poking around the Naval Historic Center and located U.S. Coast Guard records, Group 26 National Archives (505 pages). Microfilm Reel NRS-246-C includes correspondence & messages; Pan American Airways report, Earhart plane flight and the transcript of the USGC Itasca log for July 1937.

Question 1:  Was the TIGHAR Tracks "Log Jam" dated October, 1996 derived from this report? I am interested in what this report has to say about Pan Am's unofficial involvement but I'm not sure its worth $40.to find out.

Question 2:  Have you reviewed this report?

The last time I communicated with you, I asked why Lt. Daniel Cooper (Army Air Corps) was on the Itasca and you indicated he was in charge of the aircraft maintenance team. After giving this some thought while fishing one other question came to mind.

Question 3:  Why did AE use the Army maint. instead of the experts....Lockheed maint. at Howland?  Please understand that I am not a conspiracy theorist but if I was on that flight, I wouldn't settle for second best. I would want Lockheed maint. people.

Had a great vacation at Greenport L.I. fishing, bumming and saw Operation Sail and all the Tall Ships.

LTM,
Jack, 2157
**************************************************************

From Ric

>Question 1:  Was the TIGHAR Tracks "Log Jam" dated October, 1996 derived
>from this report? I am interested in what this report has to say about Pan
>Am's unofficial involvement but I'm not sure its worth $40.to find out.

I'm not sure what "Pan American Airways report" you mean.  There were some memos about the post-loss radio signals and attempts to take bearings on them, but I've never seen a formal report from Pan Am.  The was a Pan American System Report on Proposed Joint Rescue Procedure dated August 26, 1937 which supposedly suggested ways which Pan Am and the Coast Guard could improve coordination in cases like the Earhart search.  We've never been able to find that report but we'd very much like to.  We've seen excerpts from the Coast Guard's vehement reply to it which implies that Pan am was saying something like, "She was alive for a while and we couldn't get our act together quickly enough to find her in time."  The Coast Guard took the position that all of the post-loss messages were either hoaxes or misunderstandings, that the airplane went into the drink shortly after the last transmission heard by Itasca, and nobody did anything wrong because there was never any hope of helping her.  The transcript of the Itasca radio logs you mention is the big thick document that Cmdr. Warner Thompson put together to cover his butt.  We have that.  This is also the document that Morgenthau didn't want to give to Paul Mantz.  The "Log Jam" article was based upon the original radio logs, not Thompson's altered version.

>Question 2:  Have you reviewed this report?

The radio transcripts, yes.  The Pan Am report, I'm not sure.  Depends on what it is.

>Question 3:  Why did AE use the Army maint. instead of the
>experts....Lockheed maint. at Howland?  Please understand that I am not a
>conspiracy theorist but if I was on that flight, I wouldn't settle for second
>best. I would want Lockheed maint. people.

I think you overestimate Earhart's resources.  There is no way she could afford to put a Lockheed mechanic on a boat for a month or more just so she could have an expert on hand at one stop.  The government help was free and there was no major maintenance planned for the overnight stay on Howland.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:32:49 EDT
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      sex determination

Ric wrote:

>Because he had half of a pelvis (innominate bone) to work with, we've
>considered the sex identification to be one of the more reliable parts of Dr.
>Hoodless's opinion about the individual whose partial remains were found.
>Would you agree?

Yes and no.  It is like determining sex by looking at the face.  Sometimes it is obvious, sometimes it is not.  I'd rather see a sample with DNA analysis for Y chromosome markers.  There are masculine-looking women and feminine-looking men in the general population, either in terms of faces or pelvises.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:36:15 EDT
From:         Ken Feder
Subject:      sex identification

Dan Postellon wrote:

>In addition to my M.D., I have a B.A. in anthropology.  In theory, it is
>easy to identfy the sex of a pelvis by looking at the angle formed by the
>"Sciatic notch".  In practice, there are always effeminate male skeletons
>and android female skeletons, so there is considerable overlap.

Most of the forensic anthropologists I know will claim something over 90% accuracy in sexing a skeleton based on the pelvis (of course, you can be 50% accurate just by guessing).  Add the skull into the mix and these same scientists will up their accuracy to something like 95%.  So, there is always some possibility for error, but the pelvis and, especially the pelvis and skull together give you a very good shot at accurately identifying the sex of an individual.

Ken Feder
Anthropology
CCSU
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:43:36 EDT
From:         Tim Heck
Subject:      Electra Models

Wow, $395.  What about the working man Mr. Gillespie?  I can't afford that, despite my interest.  How 'bout a cheaper kit, you know, 39.95, something less detailed, and maybe w/o all the special TIGHAR Specs. Just a decal, or imprint.

LTM,
Tim

****************************************************************

From Ric

I know, I know.  I'd also like to find a ship that charters for $500/ day instead of $5,000.

There's a company that is supposedly soon coming out with a plastic kit of the Electra which we may be able to offer in the price range you're talking about. I'll let everyone know more when I know more.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:50:18 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      The Wreck Photo

Here is a thought:

Has this possibility been considered, re the Wreck Photo? That it might possibly be... could it be... an Avro Anson...?
Just wondering.

73
Mike E. the Radio Historian
*************************************************************

From Ric

Yeah, we thought about the Anson.  Most of them were steel tube and fabric but there were some later aluminum versions but I'm not sure but what the underlying structure was still steel tube (sort of like the Piper Aztec). Some even had R985 engines, but none had the larger R1340.  Windshield is wrong too.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:57:37 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Takin' a break

Just so's everybody knows, I'm away until Monday (8/10).  Pat will handle the forum 'til then.

Love to mother (actually that's who I'm going to see.  I guess the secret is out. I have a mother.)
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:59:34 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Coral rubble pile

I just have a real hard time believing that Maude and Bevington wouldn't have recognized a grave as a grave.

Tom King
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:01:10 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      Antenna lead in

If Amelia had inadvertently disconnected the HF Receiver Antenna lead-in with her foot, she  wouldn't have been able to hear anything from Itasca on 7500kc with the loop antenna.

Love to Mother,

Bob

**************************************************************

From Ric

Good point.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:49:45 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      Artifact 2-3-V-1

In 1937 coax didn't exist.  Neither did coax connectors.  None of the electronics equipment on the Electra used coax or coax connectors.  If artifact 2-3-V-1 is cable with coax connectors attached, it came from a W.W.II aircraft.  However, from the pictures I have seen of the artifact, it appears to me that the connectors have extremely long center pins.  Much longer than what was used on the standard Amphenol type coax connectors of the 1940s; and still the standard today.  They look to me more like the connectors I saw on the ignition harnesses I remember from the old DC-4 and B-377 aircraft.  I wasn't involved with engine electrical work, but I remember those harnesses and the problem with radio ignition noise a break in their shields would cause.

Love to Mother,

Bob
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:51:29 EDT
From:         Tim Heck
Subject:      Re: the Wreck Photo

Thinking about the photo.  What we need to do is take every twin, triple, or quad engined aircraft.  Narrow out the jets, and start from there, like scientists. About like so.

1a) Plane has high slung wings go to 2
1b) Plane had low slung wings, go to 3
2a) Plane has ship-like hull, or pontoons, go to 4
2b) Plane has no ship like hull, or pontoons, go to 5

And so on.

LTM,

Tim Heck
Aviation Enthusiast and Researcher
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:04:01 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Re: Aerial photos of Niku

Ric wrote:

>Our website makeover (now under construction) will include a photo tour of
>Niku including aerial photos.

As Tony the TIGHAR would say, GRRRRREAT!

Ric also wrote:

>Love to mother (actually that's who I'm going to see.  I guess the secret is
>out. I have a mother.)

And all this time we thought Pat found you under a coconut crab on Niku...

Love to YOUR mother...
Tom #2179

Never forget the importance of history. To know nothing of what happened before you took your place on earth, is to remain a child forever. [unknown]
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:06:22 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Limited Commercial

I set that one aside but forgot to answer it. RE; Noonan's pilot license. Limited Commercial = Commercial privileges within a 10 mile radius.

The Dept. Of Commerce issued airman ratings in 1930; this one along with the others was continued for awhile at least under the CAA.

To recap:  Private Pilot = Could carry passengers but not for hire. Commercial Pilot = Could carry passengers for hire anywhere.

To accommodate the 'Sunday Sightseeing' from local airports, the limited commercial was given.  It did not require the min. x-country hours and distance of a commercial.    RC  #941

********************

Thanks, Bob.  P
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:08:55 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: sex identification

Nobody seems to want to address the matter of having only half a pelvis and how this might influence the accuracy of sex determination.  And if this bone has been gnawed on by crabs...  Neither Dr. Isaac nor Dr. Hoodless were modern day forensic anthropologists.  Now what's the accuracy of either of these two very different determinations likely to be?

**************************

The one or two folks we've asked who are in a position to know are very dubious about the quality of i.d. that could have been made at that time with those (limited) facts to go on. I know we have an MD/anthropologist in the house....

Pat
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:12:56 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: The Wreck Photo

I've crawled over an Anson which happened to be in pieces being restored at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford. The wing spars are a completely wooden box structure and there's no panel near the LE with two holes cut out. The wreck's definitely not an Anson.  The museum also has an Airspeed Oxford - very similar looking. I can definitely rule this out also.

The two front runners I have are still the L10E and the Ki-54, although I haven't completely ruled out the Caprioni 310 yet.
Simon Ellwood #2120
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:06:16 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: sex identification

Re. Vern's --- Nobody seems to want to address the matter of having only half a pelvis and how this might influence the accuracy of sex determination.

The thing is, the best and easiest way to judge sex from pelvic bones is from the sciatic notches, which exist on both sides of the pelvis and are usually quite distinctive sexually.  Ladies got wide open ones for having babies, while gents have narrower ones.  So in the sciatic notch department, half a pelvis is almost as good as a whole one -- except, of course, that it's POSSIBLE to have significant disparity between the two notches in a single pelvis.  Isaac and Hoodless certainly were well aware of sciatic notches and what they indicated.  Hence their attribution of SEX is very likely to be accurate.  Age estimates are PROBABLY pretty good because they had the skull (assuming the skull and the post-cranials were from the same bod), and suture closure in the skull is a pretty good (though only pretty good) indicator of age, also well known in the 30s.  Stature may be an entirely different matter, though, and in all of this we need the opinions of honest-to-god forensic anthropologists.

Tom King
Project Archeologist
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:08:48 EDT
From:         Dick Strippel
Subject:      Re: Gurr Letter and Radio Equipment

Bob Sherman wrote:

>The more I read Gurr's account of the Electra's radio installation, the
>more questions it raises....

The more I read Gurr's account, the more I believe he never worked on the com equipt-----------------------dick
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:10:10 EDT
From:         Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Re: Graves and Bevington

Tom King wrote:

>I just have a real hard time believing that Maude and Bevington wouldn't have
>recognized a grave as a grave.

I know if *I* stumbled across a skeleton and a pile of dirt, I'd be watching the skeleton! Maybe its just a case of immediate distractions. Also, if the survivor buried the other, they may have been short on strength etc. and may not have made a regulation grave. (But I can't imagine a Westerner not sticking up some kind of marker, crude wooden cross, etc.)
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:34:30 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Graves and Bevington

Mike Ruiz writes:

>I know if *I* stumbled across a skeleton and a pile of dirt, I'd be
>watching the skeleton!

Me, too; you really do have to watch those sneaky devils.  But Bevington and Maude didn't find a skeleton; the colonists and Gallagher found the skeleton, about two years later.  All that Bevington and Maude seem to have found is the pile of dirt -- or whatever it was.

LTM
TK
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:37:32 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      One more time...

I expect that most have heard that Steve Fossett is up, up and away again. The southern hemisphere this time to avoid the anti-American/European politics that have stopped everyone to date -- if not equipment problems. He's over the South Atlantic currently.  A LOT of water to get over on this kind of route!  The intended course will take him over Australia and the South Pacific.  If something does go wrong, I wonder if he'll end up on Niku?  More artifacts to confuse the situation there!
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:38:15 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      The cable again

Continuing with the possibility that the shielded cable with Howard P. Jones series 101 plugs might have come out of the ignition/magneto circuitry, who would have specified the wiring associated with the engine?  P&W?  Might it be possible to learn something about the wiring of the engines on AE's Electra from them?  I presume we don't have access to any similar engine of the period to see what's on it.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:41:36 EDT
From:         David Kelly
Subject:      Re: Model data

In a similar vein, I have just received details of how to obtain copies of the Electra drawings held by the Smithsonian.  Would it be of assistance if someone could sort these documents out and possibly reproduce some of the more relevant ones on CAD, modified according to what we know of AE's? Also, I have learnt that there is an Electra based at Bankstown airport in Sydney (my home strip).  I believe it is hangared as the insurance is too expensive for them to fly it.  At a guess it is probably an A or B, however, it may be useful as a further reference.  I am trying to find out who owns it so I can have a 'sticky beck' at it.

Regards

David Kelly

Tom Ruprecht wrote:

>Just a note to support what another modeler wrote earlier- an issue of
>TIGHAR Tracks devoted to details of the Electra would be of great interest
>to those interested in the subject.  There is a niche market for such books
>as one can see from any hobby shop.  The hesitation on relying on it (as
>worth the trouble for significant fundraising) is my feeling and experience
>that it won't sell in large number because the subject doesn't have guns.
>Civil aircraft are not nearly as popular as military ones.  If it is
>produced, perhaps as a double issue (saving you one or more issues' work),
>extra copies should be sold @ at least $20 each to non members.  Color
>three-views and detail views of hard-to-model items (cockpit, interior,
>landing gear, *antennas*) make modelers salivate.  It should also be made
>available or at least announced through major modeling publications (a
>review should be free for the cost of sending them a copy) and the IPMS
>Quarterly.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Aug 1998 07:33:43 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      Swan logs

The deck logs of the USS Swan for 30Oct42 to 13Dec42 are on their way to you for your perusal. They arrived in a damaged package and were wet, ("neither rain nor sleet nor snow"), but I spread them out and dried them - wrinkled, but readable. Interesting, but puzzling. November is informative, but in December, they clammed up and most entries read, "no remarks". I've already copied the ones I want to keep.

Smooth Sailing,
Ron Dawson
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Aug 1998 07:36:00 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      A small excursion

I went on an interesting trip yesterday.  Locals never visit the places that are right there in their area.  I did it anyway.  And I passed some interesting things along the way.  Starting from within the city, I took a route tourists passing through would not take.

The route took me past the old "downtown airport" situated about ten minutes from downtown Kansas City, Missouri .  That was real handy back in the days when all airplanes had propellers.  It also made for some interesting landing approaches when the jets came on the scene and needed every inch of runway there!

That airport is still in use but major passenger flights all go to the Kansas City International Airport about 20 miles further north.  We're like all the other cities now.  You spend more time with ground transportation than in the air.  The Goodyear Blimp is here presently.  It was just lifting off with its nose pointed up steeply.

At the far north corner of the old airport, I passed the area where "Save-a-Connie" is restoring one of them, and a Martin 404. They've accumulated a lot of junk too.  I'll probably be back looking at some of it again.  They might have an old magneto.

About 20 miles north on I-29 I passed KCI and got buzzed by a 747 about to touch down on the E-W runway.  A few miles further north I left I-29 and headed northwesterly on state and county roads. The next sighting of interest was a big signboard that said:

"Welcome to Atchison, Kansas -- Birthplace of Amelia Earhart"

There was a big picture of Amelia and of the Electra climbing into the sky.  It has the "V" antenna and the loop but no belly antennas.  No pitot masts either, as I recall.  Of course it proclaims all sorts of historic sites and antique/collectible shops.  Atchison also has a railroad history being the point of origin of the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe and a junction point with the Burlington Northern.

The route turned to the west and I was soon crossing the Missouri River on the "Amelia Earhart Memorial Bridge."  Then there was a sign pointing the way to the "Amelia Earhart Memorial Airport." I checked the airport... The Electra was not there.  There were only three small aircraft.

Then I set out to visit the house where Amelia was born and grew up.  I drove up the hill where Amelia had done the belly-flopper on the sled.  This was a thing young ladies didn't do in those days.  It's quite a hill.  Maybe she really did go under the horse which would not have worked very well had she been sitting up in lady-like fashion!

The house, now a museum (owned by the 99's) is up on the bluff overlooking the Missouri River.  It has been restored to pretty much the way it was when Amelia lived there.  The room that was Amelia's contains a lot of things that were hers including her desk given to the museum by Muriel.

You can't actually see the river from the first floor level, you see trees on the other side of the river.  That's Missouri and in the flood plain.  At this point, the river flows southward and is the dividing line between Kansas and Missouri.

From the second floor and from Amelia's room you can see the river.  Amelia probably spent a lot of time watching the boats and long strings of barges traveling up and down the river... When she wasn't romping around on the river banks looking for whatever adventure the day might hold.  She would have seen side-wheelers and stern-wheelers all steam powered and coal burning.

Looking out on the river from Amelia's window took me back to my own childhood.  That river continues southward back to Kansas City where it turns east and heads across Missouri to St. Louis where it joins the Mississippi.  About a hundred miles to the east of Kansas City and a few years later, I was growing up in a house up on the bluff overlooking the Missouri River.  I watched some of the same boats Amelia would have watched.  While I was watching the boats and romping around the river bank, she was already long gone from the river and flying around somewhere.

Returning to Kansas City, I took the "Amelia Earhart Memorial Highway." That's US 73 between Atchison and I-70 at a point at the western edge of the part of Kansas City that is, in fact, in Kansas.  An easy, direct way for anyone traveling I-70 to make a side trip up to Atchison. Those people are sure playing the Earhart thing for all it's worth!
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:43:35 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Re: Model Data

Replying to David Kelly:

>I have just received details of how to obtain copies of
>the Electra drawings held by the Smithsonian.  Would it be of assistance if
>someone could sort these documents out and possibly reproduce some of the
>more relevant ones on CAD, modified according to what we know of AE's?

We really don't need that much sophistication to produce an accurate model. We can get what we need from existing photos and three-views.

However, having Electra drawings on CAD would certainly be a good research tool.  I've seen the microfilm and you have your work cut out for you.  The quality is lousy.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:04:40 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Atchison

Have we thought about doing a fundraiser in Atchison?

TKing
***************************************************************
From Ric

Haven't really considered it.  To do a fundraiser in Atchison would mean getting people to come to Atchison to attend it.  What would get them to Atchison?  The fundraiser. (This is getting a bit circular.)  What could we do in Atchison that would bring the people to Atchison?

Last year, for the 60th anniversary/100th anniversary they had a big do in Atchison.  We weren't invited, probably because the principal players were the 99s (who are officially of the crashed-and-sank school) and Linda Finch (who won't talk about the disappearance at all).

If we're going to do a fundraising event (which I am not at all sure is the way to go) we might be better off holding it somewhere that is easier to get and where there are already lots of people.

LTM,
Ric

PS:  Mom says, "Hi everybody."
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:11:01 EDT
From:         Ted Whitmore
Subject:      Atafu then & now

The following is a letter from a newly found friend in Apia, Western Samoa, describing the life of the Polynesians living on Atafu Island (about 250 miles south of Niku) today;  where a group of us Coast Guardsmen were stationed in 1945 - 46.  Her grandparents were on Atafu when we were there.

"July 23, 1998.  There has been a lot of changes since you left Atafu. Nowadays, thatched houses no longer exist.  All families now have iron roofs with concrete walls and louvre windows.  There's now a limited supply of electricity available.  The majority of families on Atafu have television sets with video players (currently there is no access to any TV stations).  Many homeware appliances are now part of life on Atafu.

"The majority of the people you knew, have either passed away or had migrated to New Zealand.  We are now a territory of New Zealand and therefore may enter NZ anytime one has the money.  In the early 60s, it was viewed that Atafu and the other 2 atolls were over-crowding, hence the introduction of a migration scheme, where most families left to live in New Zealand, which included your friend and his family.

"I had noticed from the copies (of pictures) you sent, no one seems to be wearing any footwear, these days, you'd be lucky to spot anyone without some sort of foot wear, except for the older generation who have become accustomed to walking around barefoot.

"Men in the past look much more physical, that is, muscular and healthy. Men of these days do not look as fit and well, maybe because technology has helped ease most of the hard labour work men in the past had to do everyday.  I mean men in 1945 would have to fish everyday and climb up coconut trees 4-5 times a day.  These days we have freezers to preserve the fish for the next day or so, we also have a lot more choice of food apart from coconut.

"There is one vehicle (truck) on Atafu, which is mainly used for transportation of heavy loads.  A lot of children bike to school now.  Now there are people living a few metres away from where the Cost Guard was based.  The population recorded from the last census (1996) for Atafu is around 550.  There's now a lot of aluminum boats and outboard motors, used mainly for fishing beyond the reefs and also for transport to travel across the lagoon for picnics.  With all these changes - I agree with you that changes  are very profound.  I'm not sure you would be able to recognize the area where your friend's house was.

"Tokelau has leased a ship from a New Zealand shipping company for 5 years, and this ship runs trips between Samoa and Tokelau once every 3-4 weeks. Tokelau also has its own inter-atoll vessel, which sometimes has trips to Samoa if there is a shortage of food supply or petrol on Tokelau."

MY NOTES ABOUT LIFE AS IT WAS WHEN WE WERE DOWN THERE:  In 1945 all houses were thatch construction with hand woven mats which covered smooth coral rock pebbles (like river rock from the edge of the surf on the reef) floors.  None of the people, men or women, wore any shoes or other footwear and most frequently wore a 'lava lava' (a sheet of broadcloth) wrapped around them - waist down for men and arm pits down for women - although quite a few had western style short trousers for men and street length dresses for women.

Ocean travel for fishing and occasional trading trips to Samoa or to Nukunonu or Fakaofa (the other atolls of the Tokelau Island) was in outrigger canoes about 20--25 feet long x 18 - 20 inches wide and about 2 feet deep with a short removable mast and lateen sail.  They were hand paddled for close ocean use and crossing the lagoon.

Land travel was always by foot - but they loved to ride in our truck whenever they could.

Boys regularly spear fished along the reef for small fish but frequently the men would bring in 50 - 75 lb. tuna and 5 - 7 foot bill fish caught on hand lines, made of coconut fiber (combed out of coconut husks), with steel hooks from trading schooners or from Samoa.  They would troll their lines on the open ocean - with their lines tied to the outrigger - and when they hooked a fish it would drag them around the ocean until it was too tired to fight any more and could be brought aboard.

For us, outside transportation was by PBY flying boat (landing on the lagoon where the coral heads had been blasted out to make a water runway. No ship landing facilities existed so ships had to standby off shore and load or unload into small boats or outriggers.

The polynesians were wonderful people, warm and friendly, very hospitable. Nothing was done for money;  we did them favors and they did many more for us.  They were Christians (Congregational Church) and there was a Samoan Missionary there on the island.  The church as a western style building and a church bell was used to call the people to church on Sundays and to evening devotional time.   The bell was also used to signal emergencies.

Native food consisted of fish - flying fish were standard fare and the eyeballs the choicest bites - breadfruit (a tree fruit), native taro (potato like) and a variety of other fruits and vegetables growing wild on the island.  Coconut juice (milk) was the common source of drinking water and the gelatinous 'meat' of the immature coconuts was always enjoyed after the refreshing drink.  All fresh water was rain water caught in barrels under trees and sometimes it was used for drinking.  Salt water was used for washing, bathing, etc.  Like Niku, there was no regular source of non-saline water.

Toilets were thatched outhouses built on stilts over the edge of the lagoon; one and two holers, very similar to the ones our forefathers built out of lumber.  Toilet paper was wilted tree & bush leaves and bad about tearing when used.

(Note: Chuck Boyle received a letter from our mutual friend saying that a few houses on Atafu now have flush toilets but the most prevalent are still those dear old outhouses in the lagoon.  She also said a project is underway to put flush toilets in all houses.)

Yes, the changes from 1945 to 1998 are very profound and raise a lot of questions in my mind - especially, what is their economic base to justify all these things?  After all, we are talking about an atoll which is a ring of coral growing on the rim of an ancient (long extinct) undersea volcano, that is about 2 - 2.5 miles across with it's highest elevation about 13 feet above high tide and the ring of land only about 200 yards wide at its widest point.

Atafu is a bit rounder than Niku but exactly the same kind of geologic structure with the same kinds of vegetation and no source of drinkable water other than rain water and coconuts.  It does have the advantage of being about 250 miles further from the equator and a slightly more moderated climate but the sea breezes make life quite pleasant.

I think most of us where were on Atafu would love to be able to make a brief return visit.

Ted Whitmore, #2169
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:31:22 EDT
From:         Forest Blair
Subject:      Atchinson Sponsorship??

Per Vern Klein's posting, Atchinson apparently thinks quite highly of Amelia--bridge, museum, etc. Have we tried the city for sponsorship of expeditions???

Forest #2149

***************************************************************

From Ric

The City of Atchison doesn't even sponsor the Earhart Birthplace Museum.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:04:13 EDT
From:         Sandy Cates
Subject:      CAD drawings

Richard, In response to the posting by David Kelly about CAD drawings from copies of technical drawings for the Electra. I would like to volunteer my time to produce these CAD drawings. I have worked with Microstation CAD software and Autocad Software for the past 8 years and would love to produce these drawings for the common cause! I've been reading the forum for the past several weeks and can't wait for the next day's postings to see what's going on. I will be joining very soon as soon as funds permit, and I have been looking for an opportunity to offer what help I could and this looks like the best that's come along. Let me know when and where. Talk to ya'll soon. 

SandyCates

***************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Sandy.  David?  Maybe you could correspond directly with Sandy on this. After all, New South Wales to North Carolina is an easy jump.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:10:58 EDT
From:         Brad McLeod
Subject:      Atchinson

I have been to the AE house in Atchinson, and found it to be very well done and nicely maintained. The women who staff the house are very knowledgeable until you bring up how AE disappeared, at which time they say nobody knows and leave it at that. When I attempted to discuss various disappearance theories, including TIGHAR's work, they acknowledged being familiar with the work, but insisted that it is just a theory and nobody really knows. The overall impression I got was they would be happiest if the mystery was never solved.

LTM,
Brad McLeod
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:36:09 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Cable and Connectors

Reference a posting from Friday, August 7:

There indeed was coaxial cable in the 30s... it might have more properly been termed "coaxial transmission line," at that time, however.  Most of it was rigid cable... the outer conductor was made of copper tubing.  The dielectric was either an early form of polystyrene plastic, or some other plastic-like material which, when it dried out, began to draw up and crumble much like an old beeswax candle does when you bend and break it.  I have even seen samples of early flexible coax from the WW2 period which behaved the same way.

The earliest forms of flexible coaxial cable appeared some time in the mid to late 30s.  The initial form was a center conductor, a plastic or composition dielectric molded around the center conductor, and a woven braid shield, covered over with a cotton cloth jacket.  It was "sort-of" flexible. A bit later the cable became available with a vinyl jacket, for outdoor use. To my knowledge, rubber was never used as a dielectric in radio frequency cable; it is too "lossy" for such use, especially at high frequencies.

I don't much think the Howard P. Jones 100-101 series connectors are suitable for aircraft ignition use.  They are too brittle, being made from thin "drawn" brass which is then plated.  The aircraft ignition leads I am familiar with would use a cable something like 1/4 to 3/8 inch diameter, which is run through an outer insulating "jacket" of tinned copper braid; a far looser fitting arrangement than the braid and outer jacket of coax cable.   The insulated jacket makes the cable look even "fatter."  The connectors screw onto the distributor cap at one end and onto the plugs at the other, and the plugs and distributor are shielded.  The inner conductor of such ignition wires uses a spring-loaded contact which routes inside the insulated shell of the plug or cap.  The connectors I have seen are much bigger overall than a Jones 100-101 (which I am familiar with).

The Jones connector would likely self-destruct if used in an ignition system.  It would be fractured/broken by vibration, coupled with extreme temperature changes; or, it would arc-over from the voltages present.  This connector is not intended to handle several thousand volts.  And, remember, as altitude increases, temperatures drop, as well as the air gets thinner -- which makes arc-over much easier.

I believe the reason Belden Mfg. Co. has not responded to inquiries regarding this cable artifact may be, they did not make it!  American Phenolic Corporation (Amphenol) is the company which pioneered the development of coax cable.  Try them.

What this cable may be, is not coax cable at all (at least not what we think of as coax, i.e, "50-ohm" or "75-ohm" cable), but simply, "shielded lead-in wire" similar to the sort of thing used for automobile radio antennas.  This stuff, back then, was a more sophisticated form of regular old shielded wire. Such cable could well have been used for lead-in from a sense antenna to a DF receiver, or for the HF receiver if it was mounted a long distance from the transmitter... such would minimize pickup of internal aircraft noise or ignition radiation.

I am inclined to think this is what it is... or, judging from Vern Klein's assessment, some kind of audio cable; but without seeing it first hand, anything I say is subject to being speculation and assumption.  And, we all know what "ASSUME"  means:  it's an acronym for "make an ASS outta U and ME."

I would be pleased to actually take a look at it, if the opportunity were made available.

73  GA  GL  Best DX  AR
Mike E. the Radio Historian
***************************************************************

From Ric

A section of the cable with one of the connectors will arrive on your doorstep (work address) tomorrow morning via FedEx (and may God have mercy on its soul).
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:05:48 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: CAD drawings

I'd love to get my hands on a set of CAD drawings for the Electra - please let me know how it goes , gentlemen.

I also have AutoCAD experience if you need the manpower.

Regards
Simon Ellwood.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Sounds like we have lots of "manpower" for a CAD project (except that it's dangerous to assume that Sandy is male).
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:27:35 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Cable sample

Let us hope the Kempeitai have not put a "mole" in FedEx.  I will guard the sample with my life.  It will be returned as soon as I have made an evaluation.

73

Mike E. the Radio Historian
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:30:34 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Atchison fundraiser

I guess a fundraiser in Atchison would make sense only if holding it in the place where Amelia was born and grew up and where the house/museum is located was a significant "added attraction." That might be attractive to real Amelia Earhart devotees but Atchison has little else to offer.  There's nothing for airplane and flying enthusiasts.

On the slightly plus side, you couldn't find a more central location with a major airport.  If I remember correctly, the geographic center of the U.S. is just a little further west in Kansas.  There's sure nothing there!

It would probably make more sense to do something at one of the hotels on the airport property or very near by.  Relative to Kansas City, you would be nearly half way to Atchison as an attraction to those who cared to go. However, I-29 southward will get you to Kansas City and there is ground transportation available.  To get to Atchison would require some arranging. I-29 northward will get you part of the way but much of the trip would be west on a 2-lane state highway.

Of course, for anyone driving through on I-70, it would be an easy trip via the Amelia Earhart Memorial Highway!  If all these memorial this-and-thats is any indication, I presume the Atchison folks would bend over backward to accommodate anything that would attract people to Atchison.  But what would one do?

On a sunny, Saturday afternoon a couple of days ago, there were NOT great droves of people in Atchison!  I parked right in front of Amelia's house.  I believe there was one other car there when I arrived and there were a couple of other cars there when I left.

An Addendum...

Anyone flying themselves could set down the Amelia Earhart Memorial airport!
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:54:03 EDT
From:         Forest Blair
Subject:      Dig the Canton engine?

IF (a big one) the Canton engine turns out to be Amelia's, then we'd have proof she came down on land.  Which land, we're not yet certain.  With proof like that, however, one would think we could more readily get funding for additional expeditions just to put closure to the matter.  Per previous discussion on the forum, it sounds as if Pratt & Whitney could fairly easily identify the engine if it is Amelia's, AND there is a good chance it is Amelia's since all other engines have been accounted for or dismissed.

Since getting a backhoe via airlift to Canton and digging for the engine would take much less time, money (one hopes) and people than scheduled for the Niku IIII expedition, why not go to Canton first?  Some kindly group or person must have a way to get a C-130 or similar at a reasonable cost for such a 3-4 day mission.

If the engine proves to be Amelia's, many people/groups, including the Feds, might even get into the act.  If the engine is NOT Amelia's, we can file it with the can label and keep on sifting sand on Niku.  Admittedly, a Canton trip will cost quite a few dollars, but aren't we going to dig up the engine sometime down the line anyway?

In summary, if we could have strong evidence (like the engine) for Amelia to have landed/crashed on land, then even the citizens of Atchinson might join us in wrapping  up her disappearance.

Undoubtedly you've hashed this all out before. I just think the engine, if it is Amelia's, would give us a quantum leap forward and would encourage funding/resources to finalize our search.

Forest #2149

***************************************************************

From Ric

Yes, an Earhart engine on Canton would be a big plus.  When it looked like it might be a matter of just walking up to it, it was worth the $40,000 it took to send a team there on a chartered Gulfstream I.

Now we know that IF it's there it has been tumbled about and buried and could be in really rough shape.  How difficult it might be to identify whatever is left is anybody's guess, but if the dataplate is missing (a very strong possibility) it could be very iffy whether P&W still has, and can find, the records to match the crankshaft serial to the engine it went in to.  We also know that to get to whatever is left will require heavy equipment which, in turn, means either a ship or a big airplane (C-130).

A C-130 can be chartered for such a mission from Southern Air Transport for just about $200,000.  If we got the military to do it (which we have, so far, been unable to do despite many, many months of trying and even the application of senatorial influence), we would have to pay the non-DoD charter rate which would amount to almost as much as chartering from SAT.  If there are any kindly individuals who are willing to cover that bill, we haven't yet found them.

Bottom line:  The necessity for heavy equipment makes digging up the Canton engine just about as expensive as taking a team to Niku.  Finding an Earhart engine on Canton would be good, but we still wouldn't know for sure where it came from. Finding the rest of the wreckage and/or human remains on Niku would be better.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:08:41 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Av. Arch. course in Atchison?

I still wonder if we're not missing the train re. Atchinson.  What about holding an aviation archeology class in Kansas City and then running a dog and pony show up to Atchinson to see what might be drummed up?

TK
**************************************************************

From Ric

Okay.  We have a great many new members and several have been chafing for us to give an Aviation Archaeology Course so that they can get that coveted C after their member number and start the process of getting qualified to participate in Earhart expeditions.  I suppose there is no reason not to give the course in Atchison, even if we have to just use a local hotel.  We could do an evening presentation for free, maybe at the birthplace museum, just to educate the local powers-that-be about what we're doing and what we have found out so far.  If we had some converts we could then talk about some big future event in Atchison.

The key to this plan would be whether we got enough registrants for the Aviation Archaeology Course to make it at least a break-even proposition.  The tuition fee for the course is $249 for members and another $45 for non- members.  We'd shoot for sometime later in the fall, say, early November. Let's have some feedback from forum subscribers who would be interested.

Love to mother,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:36:15 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Manpower

Ric wrote:

>Sounds like we have lots of "manpower" for a CAD project (except that it's
>dangerous to assume that Sandy is male).

Ooops - my mistake.  My appologies Sandy if you're of the fair sex.

Ric - I take it you have "manpower" between quotes in recognition that this should in fact read "personpower".


Simon
**************************************************************

From Ric

You got it.  A man has to devote a lot of manhours these days to being sure he does not use a term that might offend the rest of mankind.  Don't get me wrong.  I have two daughters.  I'm a feminist.  But sometimes the language issues do get a bit silly.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:39:23 EDT
From:         Tom Roberts
Subject:      Av.Arch. in Atchison

Great Idea!  I can supply two "very probables" for your next Aviation Archaeology Course, in Atchison, Topeka, Santa Fe, or someplace else, as long as it doesn't conflict temporally with other commitments.

Keep up the good work.

Tom Roberts
#1956

**************************************************************
From Ric

That's a start.  We probably need a total of at least twelve to make it worthwhile.  Anyone else?
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:34:22 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Dig the Canton engine?

Ric wrote in response to Forest Blair:-

>Bottom line:  The necessity for heavy equipment makes digging up the Canton
>engine just about as expensive as taking a team to Niku.  Finding an Earhart
>engine on Canton would be good, but we still wouldn't know for sure where it
>came from. Finding the rest of the wreckage and/or human remains on Niku would
>be better.

Yes, the cost may be about the same but you may find that some TIGHAR members/forum subscribers might be willing to part with larger sums of cash if you were to sell seats as you did on the first Canton mission. How many people could a C-130 carry together with the backhoe etc ?

Just a thought.

Simon Ellwood #2120
****************************************************************

From Ric

Southern Air Transport operates a Lockheed L-100-30 Hercules in a "Combi" configuration which includes a passenger pod in the front of the cargo bay which will accommodate 19 people.  That leaves 38 feet of cargo space which is more than enough for whatever kind of digging equipment we would want to take.

The quote they gave me last year was $198, 543 assuming we could buy fuel at Canton.  With no fuel at Canton the price was $231, 693 because we'd have to go out of our way to refuel enroute.  Fuel at Canton is problematical.  The stuff is there but the it's old and the quality is questionable. Just for argument's sake, let's say that we could get a price of $200,000. Let's also say that all but two of the 19 seats would be revenue seats.  Two hundred grand divided by seventeen comes out to $11,765 per seat.

If we want to get serious about going this route I should sit down with the people at SAT and see what kind of deal we could put together. Then we'd start trying to sell seats via the forum, the off-line TIGHAR membership, the website, streetcorners, whatever.

There is another way to approach this.

Although we haven't talked about it publicly, for reasons which will become obvious - there is another reason to go back to Canton with some heavy equipment.  When the USAF left there in the late 1970s they left behind some serious environmental problems involving toxic materials (PCBs, pesticides, etc.).  The local population, most of whom are children, are at risk.  A few days of work with some heavy equipment could do a lot to mitigate the hazards.

We've made the USAF aware of the situation and their initial response has been one of interest and concern.  We want to give the Air Force every opportunity to do the right thing before any public fuss is made about this and we also need to find out how the government of Kiribati feels about it.  Obviously, an environmental cleanup mission to Canton could include a TIGHAR-supervised examination of the dump which we suspect holds the engine.

Time, however, is of the essence.  Not because of the engine.  It's not going anywhere.  But the kids of Canton are exposed daily to conditions which none of us would tolerate for a moment if they were our own children.  If the U.S. gov't won't or can't act in a timely fashion to clean up its mess, perhaps we need to seek help from the private sector.  Environmental clean-up is not TIGHAR's knitting and we sincerely hope that, having been made aware of the problem, the Air Force will move with appropriate urgency.

If a private sector humanitarian mission becomes necessary (and again, we wouldn't do anything without first obtaining the complete support and cooperation of the Kiribati government) it might be possible to put together a Lockheed 100 (C-130) mission that would accomplish both a toxic materials clean-up and a dump excavation.

At present, the USAF is reviewing the situation and we're waiting to hear what their response will be.  We think it would be nice if we hear pretty soon.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:46:01 EDT
From:         Tim Smith
Subject:      Die-Hard Label Frag Project

About a month ago, I sent a copy of the label fragment photograph to Pat Jacobsen.  Pat is extremely knowledgeable about old labels and runs a business buying and selling old fruit container labels, primarily from California growers.  He had the following to say:

"Thanks for the label copy.  The style of printing is from the late 1930s, as it is standard photo-lithographic color separations used for the plate making. The style of the label is not what I recognize as having been from a western American printer.  If indeed you think these were for bananas, again, I know of NO labels for bananas in a can, and I have about 30,000 can labels and 20 years experience in the field.  This does not mean they were not available, I just have no source of reference for you".

I have omitted the remainder of the letter since it is speculation about what AE might have had with her and what she might have done on Niku after landing. I only gave him a very brief synopsis of why we think this label frag is interesting.

Anyway, if Mr. Jacobsen thinks it is from the 1930s, that gives me enough stimulus to keep looking for a match.  We do, of course, know that canned bananas did exist in 1937 from the on-board inventory.  I am also told by a Chiquita (formerly United Fruit Co.) employee that they were experimenting with canned bananas then, but, of course, had no examples of the labels (as I have come to expect by now).  We do know that canned bananas were not common fare.  It just makes it harder to research (sound familiar?).

LTM
Tim Smith #1142
Die-Hard Label Frag Project
***************************************************************

From Ric

Go for it Tim.  For anyone who wants to see a close-up picture of why the antiquity of the label fragment is in doubt, go to the TIGHAR website at www.tighar.org and look at the most recent Earhart Project Reserach Bulletin. Scroll down through all the reprinted forum traffic (which you've already seen anyway) and at the end you'll find a known European bar code shown beside the portion of the label fragment that resembles it.  Pretty scary, but maybe Tim can show that it's just a bizarre coincidence.

We really need to know whether the fire this label came from is, or is not, the same one Gallagher found in 1940.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:49:42 EDT
From:         Tim Smith
Subject:      Electra Models

Gimme one of those Electra models!  Today I mailed my credit card info for the $100 deposit.

Thanks,
Tim Smith #1142C
**************************************************************

From Ric

Thank you sir.  Production Slot No. 4 goes to Tim Smith.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:53:08 EDT
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Atchison

RE: Vern's comments

"guess a fundraiser in Atchison would make sense only if holding it in the place where Amelia was born and grew up and where the house/museum is located was a significant "added attraction."

How far is K.C. from Witchita?  A free tour of the Cessna and Beechcraft facilities would THRILL some of us, but then some of us are into cheap thrills.  Seriously, if we do do something in K.C. area I'm sure the Kansas Dept. of Tourism would have some info on what else there is to see/do in the area.  It has been my experience that the best stuff is often the least publicized i.e. Smithsonian's Silver Hill facility in the 70s and 80s, Davis Monthan AFB boneyard. etc..

        Just a rare thought . . .
**************************************************************

From Ric

Dennis, everything in Kansas is a long way from everything else.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:46:18 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Re: Antenna lead in

Bob Williams wrote:

>If Amelia had inadvertently disconnected the HF Receiver Antenna lead-in
>with her foot, she  wouldn't have been able to hear anything from Itasca on
>7500kc with the loop antenna.

902 is right again!  Since she did hear on 7500 with the loop, the antenna input to the recvr. had to have been connected ... unless it had a separate input for the loop, which is highly unlikely.  Looks like we are left with the 'normally closed' contact on the t/r relay, or the knife sw. in the antenna circuit (loop-ant.) was left in the loop position.    RC 941
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:49:57 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Manpower

Just a little ditty that appeared many years ago in the Journal of Irreproducible Results (yes, there really is a journal of that name!).  Paraphrasing, someone wrote that the term "man" used for the generic human is sexist, as is "woman" so "woperson" would be more acceptable.  (Obviously, the writer was female).  But, "son" is part of "woperson", so why not "woperchild"?  It was recommended that it be pronounced "woe per child", which as every parent knows, is just about right!

***************************************************************

From Ric

I'd say that this is all off-topic, except that I have a hunch that Amelia would have a lot to say on this subject.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:53:42 EDT
From:         Skeet Gifford
Subject:      Atchison/Hutchison

From Atchison (K59), it's only 164 nautical miles on V 77/V 280 to Hutchinson  HUT), site of an excellent Air and Space museum. Included are rare Soviet  artifacts. How they got there is a story in itself.

I probably need another refresher, don't you agree?

**************************************************************
From Ric

Absolutely.  Or maybe you could give me one.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:44:58 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      books and cables

Just wondering:  Have you seen the newest Earhart novel--

"Flying Blind:  A Novel of Amelia Earhart," by Max Allan Collins.  It has just hit the bookstores, in hardback ($24.95, wow).  I broke bad and bought it yesterday.

I will give you a complete, formal literary review of the book when I finish it.  For now, I will say that the author's major inspiration for his history seems to have been Fred Goerner -- at first impression, anyway -- but, on the plus side, he has created a really likeable, sympathetic fictional character from the starting point of Amelia... and a real buttmonkey of a GPP.

The conspiracy theorists will love it... but, again, it is a really good read so far, if you're willing to "suspend disbelief."

Also:  There's another book you MUST READ.  "Flying to Pieces," by David Ing.  The premise:  a member of a WW2 veterans' group (aviators) claims to know the whereabouts of a cache of Japanese combat aircraft, properly mothballed, in excellent condition, sequestered since the end of the War. He and his buddies want to mount an expedition to retrieve them... but how will these old men do it, without tipping off every treasure hunter in the world?

Sounds like it's a scenario out of the TIGHAR mold.

I'll tell you more after I read it, after I have finished the AE book.

I am "attacking the problem" of the artifact.  Report soon to follow.
73
Mike E. the Radio Historian
***************************************************************

From Ric

Sounds like poor old GP gets it again.  How about a falling-down-drunk Fred?

I wonder what we would have to find to really undo all the garbage that has been written about these people.

About the artifact:

As I'm sure you know, what we need is documentation that establishes what it is and pins down its date of manufacture as much as possible.  The principal questions which come to mind that will help us determine the likelihood of whether it may have come from the Earhart aircraft are:

1.  Is it old enough?
2.  Is it exclusively an aviation component?
3.  Would it have an appropriate use aboard Earhart's aircraft based upon our understanding of the airplane's configuration?
4.  Is there any reason to think that it is not of World War II vintage?

Incidentally,  the total length of the cable and connectors recovered is 40 inches.

Love to mother,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:46:33 EDT
From:         Marilyn Pollcok
Subject:      Atchison

I have already taken the course (thanks for the reminder to put the "C" after my number), but I would be interested in a trek to Atchison to visit the AE spots of interest.

Marilyn Pollock 1238C
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:55:49 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Digging the engine

I still question whether it's NECESSARY to take mechanized equipment to Kanton to excavate the engine.  There are some 50 or 60 I Kiribati on the island who have precious little to do with their time and who would doubtless be happy to move a bunch of coral rubble if they were reasonably compensated.   I sometimes think you airplane guys forget that one really CAN do things without machines (though Niku-rats should certainly know that).  Remember the Pyramids!  The Great Wall of China!  Monk's Mound!  It would still cost, sure, but likely not nearly as much as getting a backhoe to the island and operating it there.  And there wouldn't be nearly the danger of a disastrous breakdown.

But I suppose I'm old fashioned.

KB
TK
**************************************************************

From Ric

There is a lot to be said for the hands-on approach (as long as it's not your own hands).  The area to be excavated is not all that huge and the possibility of inadvertent damage to the artifact would be greatly reduced.  There is also the point that we would be contributing to the local economy.

Here's a question for you:  How much time would you want to have to conduct the excavation using local manual labor?
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:21:15 EDT
From:         Forest Blair
Subject:      Getting to Canton

Have we tried the "Confederate Air Force" for airlift support to Canton? Would be great publicity for them if the engine is Amelia's.

Forest, #2149

P.S.  What does the "C" mean after a member's number?

**************************************************************

From Ric

The Confederate Air Force operates a fleet of WWII vintage aircraft which have been repaired or rebuilt to airworthy condition for exhibition at airshows. I'm not aware of any airplane operated by the CAF capable of making the 2,000 nm flight to Kanton (even if the type originally had that kind of range).

The "C" after a member's number indicates that they have completed the Aviation Archaeology Course.  An "E" indicates that they are Expedition Qualified by spending at least seven days in the field on a TIGHAR expedition.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:15:57 EDT
From:         Amanda Dunham
Subject:      Re: Manpower

Just for laughs:  one of Amelia's friends (male) once referred to her as "the he-man of female flying"!!!  I had no idea that gerunds had gender. And it brings to mind all sorts of jokes about Mary Martin as Peter Pan...

Whatever spins your prop,
Amanda
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:20:56 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      For Mike: Cable sample

Mike, do pay particular attention to what appears to be heat-shrink tubing applied where the cable enters the connector.  If that's what it is, how do you figure that dates the assembly?
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:31:23 EDT
From:         Jim Kelly
Subject:      More on Vacumatics

Re the seminar-keep thinking along those lines- I'd be interested.. Also, there is some discussion regarding the Vacumatic Parker pens, and the dating thereof. The "51" model was named after the 51st anniversary of the company, which was in 1892 or 1984, placing it after the AE/FN adventure. The pens can be dated by the nibs, at least for the '30s. The nib will have a single digit and from one to four dots. The digit represents the year and the dots represent the quarter. Therefore "..6." would be the 3rd quarter of 1936. The only problem is that the Parker folks said that the most commonly replaced part on a pen is....the nib. Replacement nibs have no date. However, if a Parker pen was found on Gardner, I would assume that FNs pen would have been fairly new at the tine, (the Vacumatic having started production in 1933) so it may be able to be dated. All we have to do, of course, is find it. How goes the forensic photo part of the puzzle?
LTM
Jim Kelly 2085

***************************************************************

From Ric

Jeff Glickman at Photek has enough data to get started on Fred's head as soon as he can find the time among work for which he actually gets paid.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:54:23 EDT
From:         unknown
Subject:      DF trouble in Darwin

6/27/37 at darwin the direction finder was repaired what was wrong with it.

**************************************************************
From Ric

This is a trick question, right?  Earhart was not in Darwin on 6/27/37.  She arrived on 6/28 and continued on to Lae, New Guinea on 6/29.

The following is from a statement given to the American Consulate in Sydney, Australia on Aug. 21, 1937 by Mr. C.L.A. Abbott. Administrator of the Northern Territory and quotes a statement from Mr. A.R. collins, Aircraft Inspector and Officer-in-Charge of the Aerodrome at Darwin.

"When Miss Earhart arrived in Darwin it was necessary to ask why there had been no radio communication with the Government Direction Finding Wireless Station under my control.  (Miss Earhart had been advised of the facilities and the Station's wave length prior to departure from Koepang).  Miss Earhart regretted that the D/F receiver installed in her aircraft was not functioning therefore an inspection of this receiver was carried out and a ground test arranged between the aircraft and the D/F wireless station.  It was discovered that the fuse for the D/F generator had blown and upon renewal in Miss Earhart's presence the ground test was completed.  Miss Earhart was advised to inspect fuse in event of further trouble."
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:04:46 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Shielded Cable

Quoting Ric, in part...

Regarding the cable:

>whether it may have come from the Earhart aircraft
>1.  Is it old enough?
>2.  Is it exclusively an aviation component?
>3.  Would it have an appropriate use aboard Earhart's aircraft based upon our
>understanding of the airplane's configuration?
>4.  Is there any reason to think that it is not of World War II vintage?
>
>Incidentally,  the total length of the cable and connectors recovered is 40
>inches.

Regarding 2:  In my opinion, it is not exclusively an aviation component at all. It's a very garden variety shielded cable with very garden variety connectors.  It could have been used for any number of things involving electronic equipment.

Maybe part of some sort of test set...  Which brings to mind the recent ABC and Discovery programs.  That piece of panel from something with part of a hole that fits a standard voltmeter...  Perhaps one should not be too quick to say it doesn't qualify because of those holes that should not be there. I have been quilty of making extra holes in the panels of instruments of one kind and another.  This was done to bring out some wires to accomplish something beyond what the instrument was designed to do.  I think AE may have been involved with some of the kind of people who might do such things.

**************************************************************

From Ric

That piece also has a copper stand-off on it which (according to the opinions we had) was not suitable for aviation use because it was not cadmium plated (to avoid arcing at altitude).  Of course, a piece of test gear would not have that consideration.

The perennial problem is that so many of these artifacts are not sufficiently complex to permit precise identification.  We're always left with maybes, but we have to keep trying.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:08:02 EDT
From:         Natko Katicic
Subject:      D/Fing

When I was a youngster I used to play around with an 1941 Zenith Short-Wave receiver (Isn't that HF?). It is a tube driven thing with a plate antenna and a telescope antenna which you can plug in and out independently. I remember that when I had a strong signal I could receive it just fine with no antenna plugged in at all. As a consequence turning a hypothetical DF loop antenna -not plugged into the receiver- could not have produced any minimum. One would probably have to turn the whole receiver like Vern did with the transistor radio - or Earhart could have done with the plane?

Love To Mother.

Nat.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:04:11 EDT
From:         David Kelly
Subject:      Aviation Archaeology Course

I would be interested....could you do it by correspondence

Regards

David Kelly

**************************************************************

From Ric

Hmmm. Interesting idea.  Let me think about that.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:29:47 EDT
From:         Ken
Subject:      Re: D/Fing

Here is an issue I can answer. I am familiar with the type of receiver you're referring to, the old Zenith Trans Oceanics. This receiver had a wood case covered with an imitation leather type of fabric. In order for a radio to perform well for direction finding it has to be shielded from outside radio waves, meaning they are designed for the only point of entry for a signal is the antenna connector. A wood case provides no shielding at all. Most receivers, even with a metal case will still exhibit the characteristic you describe with the old Zenith. One more interesting point - a receiver inside a metal aircraft would be shielded from signals just by the skin of the plane.

Ken
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:32:13 EDT
From:         
Subject:      Ms. or Mr.?

I guess I should have placed a Mr. in front of my name. Sorry for the confusion. If I had a dollar for every roll call I've had an instructor say " Sandy Cates is SHE here" well needless to say they always remembered me!  Talk to ya'll soon. Thanks   Mr. Sandy Cates   :>)       LTM
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:43:41 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Aviation Archeolgy On-line

Great idea David - yes, I'd be interested also.

Regards

Simon Ellwood

***************************************************************

From Ric

Okay, this is clearly a no-brainer.  Through our website we theoretically have the capability to do all kinds of neat interactive stuff and an on-line Aviation Archeology Course would seem to be a natural. I'll get with our hosting provider and look into how we could set it up.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:46:31 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: D/Fing

So, to summarise, if AE was close enough to the Itasca, she may have been able to pick up the Itasca's signals even if her antennas were not connected, and furthermore would not be able to get a DF minimum - which is precisely the scenario that happened.

************************************************************

From Ric

Yup
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:08:38 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Re: For Mike: Cable sample

Vern Klein wrote:

> Mike, do pay particular attention to what appears to be heat-shrink tubing
> applied where the cable enters the connector.  If that's what it is, how
> do you figure that dates the assembly?

It isn't shrink tubing.  It is either the remnant of electrical tape, or some kind of a plastic sleeving used to prevent chafing of the cable shield and solder joint.

We're safe, there....

Shrink tubing came along much later than this!

At this point in time, I am thinking this cable is a Belden product which was marketed as "lead-in wire," but of course could be used for other purposes besides antenna leads.  I have also seen references to similar products, usable for the same purpose, by other manufacturers including Alpha Wire; but the construction of this artifact seems to match the catalog description of the Belden product quite well.

The Jones connectors were, indeed, used on Bendix radios.  I can document that, but my documentation does not cover equipment of the 30s.  It would be a very safe assumption that if Bendix preferred the Jones connectors, they probably used the same ones for many years.

I will try to get exact documentation on equipment of this era, however.

These same connectors could, indeed, be found on several items of WW2 radio gear common in US and Allied aircraft:  namely, the Bendix DF/radio compasses, the 75 MHz marker beacon receiver known in Army nomenclature as the BC-357, and the small "range" receivers carried in most smaller planes including fighters which was made by Setchell-Carlson and has the US Army nomenclature BC-1206.

The cable itself, then is the clue that we may quite possibly looking at something older than WW2.  This type cable was not in widespread use in wartime military aircraft... but don't jump to conclusions.  As Vern says, it could easily be from a test set.

I still have not found the info regarding British Marconi, or any Aussie gear, pertaining to connectors they may have used.  The Aussies, however, did build a large amount of exact-duplicates of several American radio equipments during WW2 as "Reverse Lend Lease."  How extensive their use of "Yank" parts, etc. was prior to the war, I do not know (I still think the British setup on Niku  may possibly have used the  Australian Amalgamated Wireless radio, but  I may be jumping to a premature conclusion myself... oh well, we gotta start somewhere).

As to whether the cable fits in with the configuration of the Electra, the most likely answer would be provided by exact ID of the connectors on the Western Electric radios; AND, the layout of the radios in the aircraft.  The equipment-connector ID should not be difficult.  It is not easy to miss a Jones 100/101 series socket, in a photo.  The other... we'll see.

I am on the case.
73
Mike E. the Radio Historian 2124
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:07:18 EDT
From:         Roberta Woods
Subject:      Aviation Arch. course

Count me in if you can provide the course online.

Roberta Woods
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:09:38 EDT
From:         Chester Baird
Subject:      Aviation Arch. Course

If you set it up for an internet or correspondence course, sign me up.

I live in Houston, Texas and work in Anchorage Alaska.

Spare time for me next to non existent.

I would love the "C" behind my number.

The E may never appear because, I have already chased enough objects around this earth.

Chester

2160
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:38:47 EDT
From:         Jack
Subject:      Re: D/Fing

I think you have to qualify the statement "even if her antennas were not connected."

> One thing is for sure, she had a transmit antenna connected otherwise
>she would have destroyed the tx final stage without an antenna acting as a
>load.  Also Itasca could hear her from miles out.

Simon, I think you were thinking about the receive connection which may have been a separate connection.  There could have been an antenna changeover relay AND possibly some form of manual switch (what is called a knife switch) involved. I have heard that some special work was done to help simplify the radio operation for AE but have been unable to get further info regarding that statement.

73,
Jack, #2157
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:43:42 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Noonan Birth info

We always knew Fred was born, but we've had a hell of a time proving it. Now we can. The Archdiocese of Chicago has found baptismal records that verify his birth date and father's name, and clarify his mother's name.

He was born Frederick Joseph on April 4, 1893 as his maritime records indicate. He was baptized April 23, 1893. His parents are listed as Joseph T. Noonan and Helena Catharine Alice Egan. The church archivist says the mother's name is her maiden name. This is the first record we've uncovered with her full name which may prove important. It's doubtful Fred had any brothers and sisters (we've found zero evidence of any so far and his mother had died by 1900) so we need to track surviving women from his mother's sisters, if she had any, for dna testing. With an accurate name, the search begins.

Blue skies, -jerry

***************************************************************

From Ric

Good work Jerry!
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:48:58 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Seattle Help

Well, it's happened again. Our previous volunteer in the Seattle area has gone incommunicado. Probably the antennas again. So we could use a warm body of reasonable intelligence with access to a major library. Based on what we know about Fred Noonan, I believe Seattle has some very revealing information about his life. But we need someone willing to spend some quality time digging among historical records to ferret it out. Please contact me if you want to join the Noonan Search Team.
(hey Ric, can we have our own T-shirts too?). Thanks.

blue skies, -jerry

***************************************************************

From Ric

>a warm body of reasonable intelligence

Who could ask for more?

Noonan Project T-shirts?  Great idea.  We'll get right to work on it.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:52:43 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      D/Fing

Simon Ellwood wrote:

> So, to summarise, if AE was close enough to the Itasca, she may have
> been able to pick up the Itasca's signals even if her antennas were not
> connected, and furthermore would not be able to get a DF minimum - which
> is precisely the scenario that happened.

The signal has to get to the RF input of a recvr. somehow.  Wood & plastic cabinets will allow a signal to get through, particularly those with some ant. wire wound around some non conductor form inside the cabinet.  With a radio in a metal cabinet, inside of an aluminum aircraft, that possibility

is extremely remote.   RC  941
***************************************************************

From Ric

Are we then back to a damaged or missing antenna with the lead-in cable acting as a stub antenna?
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:14:53 EDT
From:         RM
Subject:      Re: D/Fing

If the information below is correct, then it could mean that she was trying to track towards the Itasca.  If this is correct they we could further assume that the aircraft wreck might actually be in the water.

RM

Simon Ellwood wrote:

>So, to summarise, if AE was close enough to the Itasca, she may have
>been able to pick up the Itasca's signals even if her antennas were not
>connected, and furthermore would not be able to get a DF minimum - which
>is precisely the scenario that happened.
***************************************************************

From Ric

The logic escapes me.  Of course she was trying to track toward the Itasca. At 07:42 local she knew she was on a line that passed through Howland but she didn't know whether it to go left (NW) or right (SE) on the line.  If the D/F had worked she would have known, but it didn't and she didn't. Once she got into her fuel reserve she had no choice but to proceed southeastward on the line to be assured of finding land before her gas ran out.  Her 08:43 transmission suggests that she was doing just that.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:16:28 EDT
From:         Dustymiss
Subject:      Re: Aviation Archeolgy On-line

I like the idea of an on-line aviation archeology classes too.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:41:02 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      The "LC"

My friend of DC-2's & the '30's added to the Limited Commercial; needed 50 hrs. total.

To Recap:

Total Hourly requirements for the various types of licenses

Private:  35 (aprov. school)  or 40 otherwise

Limited Commercial   50,  full comm. priv. except for 10 mi. radius (extinct)

Commercial   200 (now 250 + instr. rating)

Air Transp.  1200  (now 1500)

All have additional requirements of solo hrs, & x-c, etc.

It would appear that Noonan got his flying time before leaving the sea, thus began his aerial nav work with an "LC" in his pocket.   RC
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:46:11 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Elusive Sciatic Notches

Tom, thanks for your post of a few days ago pointing out that there are two sciatic notches.  In part misled by television documentaries, I had believed there was only one of the notches they seemed to stress as important to sex determination.  TV programs are always so superficial and offer such fleeting glimpses of what they do show, it's hard to know what they're talking about.

I had assumed the notch was probably in the region of the symphysis pubis. After reading your post, I pulled my old Gray's Anatomy text of the top shelf and blew the dust off it.  No help at all.  Sciatic notches were not mentioned nor shown in any drawing.  There was sure no notch associated with the symphysis pubis.

Next attempt, the public library. (The medical libraries would have been next.) No help in about a dozen anatomy books.  I was down to the last one. There it was!  Right hip bone, lateral view... arrows pointing out the Greater Sciatic Notch and the Lesser Sciatic Notch!  The notches are clearly visible in one drawing in Gray's Anatomy but not identified by name.

I'm a little less ignorant today than I was yesterday!

It's difficult for me to see why these notches would be different in male and female despite the obvious overall difference in the pelvic structures. It doesn't appear that the notches contribute to the larger opening in the female pelvis.  I'll have to find a real skeleton to look at.  When I see it in three dimensions, the reason for the differences in the notches may be more evident.

**************************************************************

From Ric

I thought sciatic notches were a TexMex appetizer.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:48:40 EDT
From:         Suzanne Tamiesie
Subject:      Aviation Arch. on-line

I too would be interested in the aviation archeology class -- how about doing it on line?

Best regards,
Suzanne Tamiesie 2184

****************************************************************

From Ric

Okay guys.  I know a grass-roots movement when I see one.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:10:37 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Wreck Photo progress

Here's a real treat.  New down-under TIGHAR member Rob Williams took the bull by the tail and faced the situation, resulting in the following message to me:

*************************************************************

Subj:    Tachikawa Ki-54
From:   raafmus@ozemail.com.au (RAAF Museum)
To:     TIGHAR@aol.com, 

Dear Sirs,

The RAAF Museum is receipt of a request from one of your Australian Associates in regard to a Tachikawa Ki-54.  The RAAF Museum Point Cook does possess the fuselage of such an aircraft.  This particular aircraft was the one that flew the Japanese General Baba around the Pacific at the end of the War for the signing of surrenders.  It made its way back to Australia and subsequently to the Museum.

Can you supply the Museum with some photographs of the wreck and we will endeavour to answer your questions.  If you wish you can post the photographs to the following address.

                David Gardner
                Senior Curator
                RAAF Museum
                RAAF Williams
                Point Cook
                Victoria 3027
                AUSTRALIA

The Commanding Officer, Squadron Leader Gary Westley and myself are avid readers of your web page.  A most intriguing mystery.  Any other assistance please do not hesitate to drop a line.

Regards,


David Gardner
***************************************************************

To which I have replied:

G'day David,

Thanks for replying to Rob Williams' request and contacting me directly.

I've attached a JPEG copy of the infamous Wreck Photo for your perusal.  If we can do this electronically it will be easier and quicker for everyone, but I'm also happy to post hard-copy photos if need be.

Here's the puzzle in a nutshell:

The aircraft in the photo is clearly a multi-engined aircraft of stressed aluminum construction which uses two-bladed, non-feathering propellers.  That, alone, narrows down the field considerably.  The nose section of the aircraft is constructed with at least four circumferentials or bulkheads and has a windshield that features a thick centerpost which flares at the base and has a bead or flange across its entire bottom edge.  Behind the leading edge of the right-hand inboard wing section (between the fuselage and engine) is a sheet metal structure which features two large lightening holes.

At this point, the aircraft in the photo seems to be most consistent with the Lockheed Model 10 (about which we know a great deal) and the Tachikawa Ki-54 (about which we know only what we have been able to glean from the scarce literature available).  The opportunity to have knowledgeable people compare the structures visible in the photo to a real-life Ki-54 is a rare and unique opportunity.

Please let me know if the photo comes though okay or if you need more detailed views from the photo.  I'll be very interested to have your comparison.

I'll also be keeping our Amelia Earhart Search Forum informed of this aspect of our investigation.  We now have nearly 400 subscribers to the forum worldwide and they constitute an active and invaluable force for solid research.  I'll be happy to subscribe you to the forum if you wish.

Thanks again for your help.

Ric Gillespie
Executive Director
TIGHAR
**************************************************************

Stay tuned for the next exciting episode.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:15:46 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      D/Fing

Simon Ellwood wrote:

>So, to summarise, if AE was close enough to the Itasca, she may have
>been able to pick up the Itasca's signals even if her antennas were not
>connected, and furthermore would not be able to get a DF minimum - which
>is precisely the scenario that happened.

Why didn't she hear the Itasca on other frequencies?
***********************************************************

From Ric

Hmmm.  Good question.  Sure sounds like the loop was the only functional receiving antenna.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:20:07 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      DF trouble in Darwin

>Miss Earhart regretted that the D/F receiver installed in her aircraft was
>not functioning therefore an inspection of this receiver was carried out and a
>ground test arranged between the aircraft and the D/F wireless station.  It
>was discovered that the fuse for the D/F generator had blown and upon renewal
>in Miss Earhart's presence the ground test was completed.  Miss Earhart was
>advised to inspect fuse in event of further trouble.

I sure hate to lift the lid on this can of worms!

This wording suggests that there was a dedicated DF receiver.  It may be  nothing more than the choice of words, and it is at least 2nd hand information.
***************************************************************

From Ric

Yeah I know.  Drives ya nuts.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:25:01 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      For Mike: Cable sample

>At this point in time, I am thinking this cable is a Belden product
>which was marketed as "lead-in wire," but of course could be used for other
>purposes besides antenna leads.  I have also seen references to similar
>products, usable for the same purpose, by other manufacturers including
>Alpha Wire; but the construction of this artifact seems to match the catalog
>description of the Belden product quite well.


Mike,  I have the impression that Belden was reluctant to claim the cable. But maybe they have no idea what they were making 60 years ago!

Is your catalog description detailed enough to tell if the open braiding of the shield and small diameter wire fits?  This is uncommon in any shielded wire we see today.  Does the center conductor of ten strands of 0.010" diameter wire also fit?

These aspects of the cable make me think, designed for flexibility.  And, in turn, I think, "patch cord."

***************************************************************

From Ric

At this point, Belden hasn't said anything about the cable.  At last word, a retired employee was being consulted to see if he had an opinion.  This is not exactly what you'd call researching the corporate archives.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:35:00 EDT
From:         Ken Feder
Subject:      Re: Elusive Sciatic Notches

>Tom, thanks for your post of a few days ago pointing out that there are two
>sciatic notches.

Whoa.  There are two sciatic notches only because there is a left and right innominate bone (in other words, a left half and a right half of the pelvis). The notches are mirror images of one another and the angles for each in an individual are almost always the same.

When you look at a skeleton in 3-D you can clearly see that a larger angle for the sciatic notch opens up the birth canal and females usually have a notch with a larger angle.  For example, in a standard forensic sample cited by Wilton Marion Krogman in his classic book, The Human Skeleton in Forensic Medicine, the range for sciatic notch angle for males was 26 to 65 degrees, with a mean of 50.4 degrees.  Female sciatic notch angle in the same sample ranged from 61 to 93 degrees with a mean of 74.4 degrees. There is some, but not much overlap within any population. Unless the notch for the Gardner Island pelvis was in that narrow overlapping band (or the examiner made a simple error), the identification of the person's sex is pretty (but not absolutely) certain.

Ken Feder 2103

*************************************************************

From Ric

Sometimes notches are obscured by guacamole.  (Sorry.  This is important stuff and I don't mean to trivialize - but I just couldn't resist.)
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:50:11 EDT
From:         Bob Brown
Subject:      Kite Aerial Photography

There is a well established cadre of practitioners of kite aerial photography through the world.  This technology has often been used in traditional archeology for low altitude aerial surveys.  Since it is little known I thought I would point it out for possible use on expeditions to remote sites where it is difficult or impossible to launch aircraft.  Please see the premier kite aerial photography site by Cris Benton at  http://www.ced.berkeley.edu/arch_faculty_cris/kap/  for more information and sample photographs.  Just a thought.

Bob
**************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Bob,

We actually did some very inexpert experimentation with kite aerial photography on Niku in 1991.  One of our team members had a system rigged up with a video camera.  The resulting tape was the best trigger mechanism for instant motion sickness I have ever seen.

I'll take a look at the website.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:28:28 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      AE's frequencies (long)

I talked to an old pilot friend in Paris an hour ago re: what freq.'s they used in Europe plane to ground to plane in mid 1937.  He will check & get back.  I would like to pin down just what freq. she would be apt to use.  E.g.  The guy in Darwin said a fuse in the df (adf) was the problem with her df. Does that mean her other comm with the ground was ok? If so, what freq.'s; especially what would she be recvng. on?

If she had the WE recvr. the top band was 4mc-10mc thus the selection of 7.5 mc might be to try another band (believe she was xmitg. on 3.105)   Then when she heard on 7.5, would that be any reason to change to 6.210.   Maybe 7.5 had been one offered earlier by W.K. of the Itasca.  (Ric has a copy of W.K.'s cable to her .. or from Fred G's book.).

A better handle on what freq.'s were available enroute and a list of what W.K. had offered, and her reply, will give us the opportunity to better understand what she may have intended to use along the way, and her intentions when in range of the Itasca.  As to whether she had in fact removed the adf (per Bendix guy's complaint) or did the Darwin guy really mean the 4 band recvr. (to which the loop was supposedly conn. to.) had blown the fuse?

If the xmtr. was back at the nav sta. that means the ant. lead-in went to the back, then from the t/r it went fwd to the recvr. under the c/p seat. a most inefficient system for rf where every little bit counted. We need to get all of this info diagramed & listed, then we'll be in position to argue and 'rate' the various theories.   Comments??   RC
***************************************************************

From Ric

Okay Bob.  You asked for it.

The following is a compilation of all official messages referring to radio frequencies and procedures from 6/18/37 to 7/2/37:

On 6/18/37 Itasca receives this message addressed to Richard Black, the Dept. of Interior representative who is aboard to coordinate Earhart's activities with regard to Howland.  (Howland Island was administered by the Dept. of Interior, not the Coast Guard.)  At this time Earhart is enroute from Calcutta, India  to Akyab, Burma.

Text:
FOR RICHARD BLACK
FOLLOWING FOR YOU FROM GEORGE PALMER PUTNAM QUOTE EARHART WILL BROADCAST RADIO PHONE QUARTER AFTER AND QUARTER TO HOUR STOP HER FREQUENCIES SIX TWO ONE OUGHT AND THREE ONE OUGHT FIVE FORMER USED DAYLIGHT STOP ALSO HAS FIVE HUNDRED BUT DUBIOUS USABILITY STOP ADVISE WHAT FREQUENCIES ITASCA WILL USE DITTO NAVAL VESSELS SO SHE CAN LISTEN STOP SUGGEST COAST GUARD AND NAVY COORDINATE SO THAT HELPFUL WEATHER DATA BE BROADCASTED TO HER AFTER LAE TAKEOFF ON THE HOUR AND HALF STOP WILL CONFIRM ARRANGEMENT WITH HER BY WIRE [ONLY RE READABLE] AT LAE STOP CAN ITASCA FORWARD HOWLAND WEATHER FORECAST TO LAE POSSIBILY [SIC] VIA THE ONTARIO PRIOR TAKEOFF STOP WILL REQUEST HOWLAND AIR PHOTOGRAPH UNQUOTE:: HAMPTON

***********************************
On 6/19/37 Black replies:

FOLLOWING FOR PUTMAN
[SIC] QUOTE THIS CONFIRMS INFORMATION IN YOUR MESSAGE FORWARDED BY HAMPTON JUNE 18 THAT EARHART WILL BROADCAST RADIOPHONE QUARTER TO AND QUARTER AFTER HOUR ON FREQUENCIES DAYLIGHT SIX TWO ONE NAUGHT NINE [SIC - NITE] THREE ONE NAUGHT FIVE ALSO TRY FIVE HUNDRED CLOSE IN STOP ITASCA CAN GIVE HER ALMOST ANY FREQUENCY DESIRED AND REQUEST THAT SHE CONTACT ITASCA NOW BY COMMERCIAL LINES VIA GOVT AMERICAN SAMOA ASKING FOR FREQUENCY BEST SUTIING [SIC] HER HOMING DEVICE STOP ALSO HAVE HER DESIGNATE TIME AND TYPE OF OUR SIGNAL STOP SHIP WILL GIVE SMOKE BY DAY AND SEARCHLIGHT BY NIGHT STOP HAVE HER GIVE US FLIGHT PROGRESS AND MAKE FINAL ARRANGEMENTS BEFORE TAKEOFF VIA SAMOA TUTUILA RADIO STOP WILL REQUEST ONTARIO AND SWAN NOTIFY US OF AVAILABLE FREQUENCIIES AND FORWARD THIS INFORMATION TO YOU OR EARHART STOP WILL EARHART LAND LUKE OR WHEELER HONOLULU QUESTION UNQUOTE SIGNED BLACK

******************************************************

On 6/20/37 Back receives this message from Washington:

 RUTH HAMPTON=DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR WASHDC
TELL BLACK DIFFICULT CONTACT EARHART SATISFACTORILY BEFORE ARRIVAL DARWIN STOP FROM DARWIN SHE WILL COMMUNICATE ITASCA VIA SAMOA STIPULATING DESIRED FREQUENCY AND TIME TYPE SIGNAL BEST FOR HOMING DEVICE DITTO FOR SWAN AND ONTARIO STOP ITASCA CAN CONFIRM TO HER AT LAE STOP SHE WILL ADVISE FULLY VIA SAMOA BEFORE LEAVING LAE STOP WILL ADVISE WHETHER LUKE OR WHEELER=PUTNAM

***********************************************************
ON 6/23/37  Black sends this message for Earhart, trying to catch her either in Bandoeng, Java or in Darwin, Australia:

FOLLOWING FOR AMELIA EARHART PUTNAM AT DARWIN OR VANDOENG [SIC] JARVA [SIC] VIA AMALGAMATED WIRELESS QUOTE ONTARIO NIDZ [SIC] TRANSMITTER 500 WATTS FREQUENCY RANGE 195 TO 600 KCS EITHER CW OR MCW PERIOD NO HIGH FREQUENCY EQUIPMENT ON BOARD STOP SWAN NIJP CAN TRANSMIT ONE HALF KILOWATT BETWEEN 195 AND 600 KCS AND BETWEEN 2000 AND 3000 KCS PERIOD ALSO CAN TRANSMIT 100 WTS 600 TO 1500 KCS AND FROM 3000 TO 9050 KCS PERIOD 35 WATTS VOICE AVAILABLE 350 TO 1500 KCS AND 3000 TO 9050 KCS STOP PLEASE CONFIRM AND DESIGNATE SIGNALS DESIRED FROM ONTARIO ITASCA AND SWAN WITHIN THESE RANGES BEST SUITED TO YOUR HOMING DEVICE STOP ITASCA CAN GIVE ANY FREQUENCY DESIRED STOP INFORMATION FROM TUTUILA AND SUVA INDICATE DELAY AT LEAST FOUR HOURS IN MESSAGES BETWEEN LAE AND ITASCA STOP BLACK.

***************************************************************

Later that same day Itasca sends this message for Earhart (who, unbeknownst to Itasca, is still in Java):

FOR AMELIA EARHART PUTNAM PORT DARWIN AUSTRALIA OR LAE NEW GUINEA QUOTE REQUEST YOU ADVISE THIS VESSEL TWELVE HOURS PRIOR TO YOUR DEPARTURE FROM NEW GUINEA FULL INFORMATION REGARDING YOUR DESIRES IN MATTER OF RADIO FREQUENCIES AND COMMUNICATION SCHEDULE PERIOD WE WILL CONFORM TO ANY FREQUENCIES DESIRED IMPORTANT ANTICIPATE YOUR DEPARTURE AS COMMUNICATION VIA PORT DARWIN VERY SLOW PERIOD ITASCA ON STATION HOWLAND ISLAND AT 2200 THIS EVENING PERIOD THIS VESSEL WILL CONTACT SWAN AND ONTARIO AND ADVISE THEM FULLY UNQUOTE
**************************************************************

On 6/25/37 Itasca receives this message from Coast Guard headquarters in San Francisco:

MR PUTNAM NOW AT OAKLAND AND ADVISES MISS EARHART AT BANDOENG JAVA FOR REPAIRS TO MOTORS AND DEPARTURE INDEFINITE PERIOD SHE WILL CABLE DETAILS COMMUNICATIONS FROM PORT DARWIN DIRECT SAN FRANCISCO AND YOU WILL BE GIVEN ALL INFORMATION IMMEDIATELY PERIOD ALL COMMUNICATION FROM PLANE WILL BE ON 500 COMMA 3105 OR 6210 KILOCYCLES BY VOICE POSITIONS BEING GIVEN AT FIFTEEN AND FORTY FIVE MINUTES PAST THE HOUR PERIOD ITASCA ADJUST TRANSMITTER FOR POSSIBLE USE 3105 KILOCYCLES FOR VOICE PERIOD DIRECTION FINDER ON PLANE COVERS RANGE OF ABOUT 200 TO 1400 KILCYCLES

****************************************************************

On 6/26/37 Earhart, for the first time, communicates directly with Black aboard Itasca from Bandoeng, Java:

SUGGEST ONTARIO STANDBY ON FOUR HUNDRED KCS TO TRANSMIT LETTER N FIVE MINEUTES [SIC] ONE [SIC - ON] REQUEST WITH STATION CALL LETTER REPEATED TWELVE [SIC - TWICE] END VERY [EVERY?] MINUTE STOP SWAN TRANSMIT VOICE NINE MEGACUCLES [SIC] OR IF I UNABLE RECEIVE BE READY ON NINE HUNDRED KCS STOP ITASCA TRANSMIT LETTER A POSITION OWN CALL LETTERS AS ABOVE ON HALF HOUR SEVEN POINT FIVE MEGACYCLES STOP POSITION SHIPS AND OUR LEAVING WILL DETERMINE BROADCAST TIMES SPECIFICALLY STOP IF FREQUENCIES MENTIONED UNSUITABLE NIGHT WORK INFORM ME LAE STOP I WILL GIVE LONG CALL BY VOICE THREE ONE NAUGHT FIVE KCS QUARTER AFTER HOUR POSSIBLE QUARTER TO: EARHART 
***************************************************************
That same day Itasca receives this message from Coast Guard headquarters in San Francisco:

FOLLOWING INFORMATION FROM EARHART THIS DATE QUOTE HOMING DEVICE COVERS FROM 200 TO 1500 AND 2400 TO 48 KILOCYCLES ANY FREQUENCIES NOT REPEAT NOT NEAR ENDS OF BANDS SUITABLE UNQUOTE SUGGEST USING SUITABLE FREQUENCIES HAVING IN MIND UNCERTAIN CHARACTERISTICS OF HIGH FREQUENCIES PERIOD USE 333 KILOCYCLES OR FREQUENCY IN THAT VICINITY AND TRY 545 KILOCYCLES AFTER TESTS WITH STATIONS YOUR LOCALITY TO DETERMINE WHICH IS BEST PERIOD ADVISE IF IMPOSSIBLE TO PLACE TARE 10 TRANSMITTER ON 3105 KILOCYCLES PERIOD EARHART AT LAE VIA TUTUILA EXACT FREQUENCIES SELECTED AND ASSUME CONTINUOUS SIGNALS AFTER HER DIRECTION FINDER IN RANGE PERIOD SEE BROADCAST ON QUARTER AFTER AND QUARTER BEFORE HOUR ON 6210 AND 3105 KILOCYCLES PERIOD AM ADVISING EARHART THAT ITASCA WILL VOICE RADIO HER ON 3105 ON HOUR AND HALF HOUR AS SHE APPROACHES HOWLAND PERIOD REPAIRS MADE AND EARHART NOW AT SOURABAYA EXPECTS LEAVE DAWN THIS DATE FOR PORT DARWIN AND NEXT DAY FOR LAE PERIOD ADVISE PRIORITY IF ADJUSTMENTS TARE TEN TRANSMITTER SATISFACTORY FOR USE ON 3105
*************************************************************

On 6/28/37, the day Earhart arrives in Darwin, Itasca sends the following message to Lae:

FOLLOWING FOR AMELIA EARHART PUTNAM LAE QUOTE ITASCA TRANSMITTERS CALIBRATED 7500 6210 3105 500 AND 425 KCS CW AND LAST THREE EITHER CW OR MCW PERIOD ITASCA DIRECTION FINDER FREQUENCY RANGE 550 TO 270 KCS PERIOD REQUEST WE BE ADVISED AS TO TIME OF DEPARTURE AND ZONE TIME TO BE USED ON RADIO SCHEDULES PERIOD ITASCA AT HOWLAND ISLAND DURING FLIGHT

**************************************************************

The same day Itasca sends this message to Navy Radio Wailupe (Hawaii), Tutuila (Samoa), and CG Hq  in San Francisco:

TRANSMITTERS CALIBRATED TO 7500 KCS PERIOD WHEN EARHART IS IN FLIGHT IT IS REQUESTED THAT NMC NPU NPM STAND WATCH ON THIS FREQUENCY OF 7500 FOR ITASCA IN ORDER TO ELIMINATE FREQUENCY CHANGES IN TRANSMITTERS

****************************************************************
This same day, 6/28/37, Amalgamated Wireless (presumably at Earhart's instruction) sends this message to Lae:

FOLLOWING FROM DARWIN BEGINS EARHART WILL SEND AND RECEIVE ON 36 METERS AT 18 AND 38 MINUTES PAST EACH HOUR STOP EXPECTS LEAVE DARWIN FOR LAE ABOUT 6.30 YOUR TIME INFORM LAE ENDS

***************************************************************

And another message is sent from Darwin to Lae via Vacuum Oil:

EARHART ANTICIPATES DEPART 0600 29TH FOR YOURS RECEIVING AND TRANSMITTING THIRTYSIX POINT SIX METERS D BAR F LOOP

**************************************************************

But these messages were in error.  According to Eric Chaters' report of July 25, 1937, Lae was unable to hear anything from Earhart during the flight from Darwin to Lae on 6/29.

"On arrival Miss Earhart pointed out that whereas these radios advised us of a wave length of 36 metres, in reality her wave length was 49 metres which explained why we failed to pick up any messages from her."

***************************************************************
On 6/30/37, the day after her arrival in Lae, Earhart sends this message:

COMMANDER USS ITASCA TUTUILA RADIO; PLAN MIDDAY TAKEOFF HERE PLEASE HAVE METEOROLOGIST SEND FORECAST LAE HOWLAND SOON AS POSSIBLE IF REACHES ME IN TIME WILL TRY LEAVE TODAY OTHERWISE JULY FIRST REPORT IN ENGLISH NOT CODE ESPECIALLY WHILE FLYING STOP WILL BROADCAST HOURLY QUARTER PAST HOUR GCT FURTHER INFORMATION LATER; EARHART

****************************************************************

Later on 6/30/37 earhart sends this message to Black aboard Itasca:

BLACK ITASCA VIA TUTUILA; ACCOUNT LOCAL CONDITIONS PLAN START JULY FIRST TWENTYTHREE THIRTY GCT IF WEATHER OK STOP WILL ITASCA TRY CONTACT LAE DIRECT ON TWENTYFIVE METRES LAE ON 46 METRES SO CAN GET FORECAST IN TIME PARTICULARLY INTERESTED PROBABLE TYPE PERCENTAGE CLOUDS NEAR HOWLAND STOP NOW UNDERSTAND ITASCA VOICING THREE ONE NAUGHT FIVE ON HOUR AND HALF HOUR WITH LONG CONTINUOUS SIGNAL ON APPROACH CONFIRM AND APPOINT TIME FOR OPERATOR HERE TO STAND WATCH FOR DIRECT CONTACT; EARHART

***************************************************************

Earhart receives this message in reply:

FOR AMELIA EARHART PUTNAM QUOTE REQUEST ITASCA BE ADVISED CALL LETTERS OF STATION TO BE CONTACTED PERIOD WILL ATTEMPT TO CONTACT LAE 1430 2030 2200 GCT PERIOD ITASCA WILL TRANSMIT LETTER A WITH CALL LETTERS REPEATED TWICE END EVERY MINUTE ON HALF HOUR AND HOUR ON 7.5 MEGACYCLES WILL BROADCAST VOICE ON 3105 KCS ON REQUEST OR START WHEN WITHIN RANGE PERIOD RECENT CLOUDS CIRRO STRATUS THREE TENTHS AND SOME STRATO CUMULUS SURFACE WIND EAST ELEVEN TO NINETEEN AT 8000 UNQUOTE
***************************************************************

At 6 a.m. 6/1/37  Earhart sends the following to Black:

ASK ONTARIO BROADCAST LETTER N FOR FIVE MINUTES TEN MINUTES AFTER HOUR GMT FOURHUNDRED KCS WITH OWN CALL LETTERS REPEATED TWICE END EVERY MINUTE STOP PLAN LEAVE BY TEN THIS MORNING NEW GUINEA TIME

***************************************************************
Later that morning Earhart sends this message:

BLACK ITASCA - TUTUILA RADIO. DUE LOCAL CONDITIONS TAKE OFF DELAYED UNTIL TWENTY ONE THIRTY GMT JULY SECOND STOP ANY FORECAST LAE HOWLAND BEFORE THEN APPRECIATED NOTIFY ONTARIO CHANGE BT EARHART

***************************************************************

On 7/2/37  Black received this message from Lae:

URGENT BLACK ITASCA TUTUILA RADIO: AMELIA EARHART LEFT LAE TEN AM LOCAL TIME JULY 2ND DUE HOWLAND ISLAND 18 HOURS TIME BT VACUUM.

***************************************************************
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:30:24 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      antennas

>I think you have to qualify the statement "even if her antennas were not
>connected."

Yes Jack, you're quite right of course - I did mean just the Rx side

Regards
Simon
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:33:09 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Elusive Sciatic Notches

Quoting Ric

>I thought sciatic notches were a TexMex appetizer.

You weren't much further off than I was trying to find 'em in the front!

To Ken

Yeah, I recognized that there was one notch per half-pelvis. And I do thank you for the detailed information relative to dimensions.  I'm filing that for possible future reference.  So, a larger notch angle does, in fact, open up the birth canal.  Thus the M/F difference makes sense.

             **************************************
>From Ric
>
>Sometimes notches are obscured by guacamole.  (Sorry.  This is important stuff
>and I don't mean to trivialize - but I just couldn't resist.)
            ***************************************

So that's the reason I wasn't able to find them in all those books I searched!!
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:49:08 EDT
From:         Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Noonan birth info

Good work indeed, Jerry! The 1900 census should show who was still living in the family as well as their ages and occupations, etc. Unfortunately, the 1890 U.S.Census is, for the most part, lost, due to a fire that ravaged the records in 1921, so it would be a little harder to get prior family background info along that route. Presently, I'm checking into some Noonan and Earhart genealogies, and if I find anything useful, I'll post it. Also, addressing briefly the Itasca signal issue, it IS possible to receive without an antenna to some extent, but if she had none, in the metal plane which acts as a shield, she would have had to have been EXTREMELY close to the Itasca, unless, of course, the Itasca's transmit power was astronomical! Of course, any stub of an antenna is better than none, but its length will determine (by whether it's the right length to resonate the desired frequency or not) just how long she'd receive on it at any distance from the transmit source. Stranger things have happened though: hams have made international HF contacts when they've been using a light bulb as a dummy antenna load! Sorry to mix genealogies and antennas, but I was on a roll.

---My Prop Spinneth Over,
Gene Dangelo  :)
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:03:25 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Sextant box research

I note that sextant boxes were examined in Great Britain as well as other places.  Have the research facilities at the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich been checked out for anything they might be able to say about those numbers on the boxes?  Or possibly something else relative to Fred Noonan?

I'm remembering his supposedly having sailed with British shipping interests. Of course, I'm not sure that's factual information.

*************************************************************

From Ric

The Greenwich base has been covered, as has the Ludolph company in Bremen and the Mariner's Museum in Newport News, VA.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:03:39 EDT
From:         Andrew McKenna
Subject:      Radio compatibility

Carrington suggests in his book (Amelia Earhart - A Report by G. Carrington) that there was some incompatibility between AE's relatively modern radio equipment tuned by crystals, and the older Coast Guard equipment tuned by hand, and therefore "subject to some degree of frequency shift".

He suggests that for AE to hear the Itasca clearly on any frequency, the Itasca's transmitter would have to fitted out with crystals matched to the same frequencies.

Sounds good to a layman, but I am wondering if any of our experts can comment on the validity of the idea.

Andrew McKenna
1045C
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:56:53 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Digging the engine

<Here's a question for you:  How much time would you want to have to conduct
<the excavation using local manual labor?

I need to crunch some numbers, but my WAG is about 2 weeks, assuming we got about 20-30 diggers.  Three or four Yankee dogs to supervise and record -- but must be ready to get in and sling rocks with everyone else -- and the village women paid to fix food...  I'll think more on it, and welcome other thoughts, but that's what seems right off the top of my shiny head.

LTM
TK
***************************************************************

From Tom Robison

Ric wrote:

>Here's a question for you:  How much time would you want to have to conduct
>the excavation using local manual labor?

aw, Ric, there you go, being practical again...

LTM,

Tom #2179
***************************************************************
From Vern 2124

What's the current thinking on the possibility of digging the engine out using local manpower -- and the tractor to help drag big stuff out of the heap?

Tom's suggestion sure sounds to me like a viable way to go.  It seems to me it should be high on the priority list.  It's a gamble, but even if it can not be positively identified as AE's engine, if it's the RIGHT engine that's very strong evidence.

With that kind of evidence in hand, getting sponsorship for more searching might be a lot easier.  Might the TV people, like "Discovery," be interested in the whole saga of the Canton Engine finally culminating in the dig -- however that comes out?  I think it's a very interesting tale all the way from Bruce's sighting of the engine on the reef flat.  And even what those people were doing there in the first place.  I think It would make a great documentary for Discovery!  They seem to like archaeological stuff.  Hold your breath at the end... is it the right engine?

What about the environmental aspect?  Digging into that dump might be the first step in cleaning the place up.  Get some of the more undesirable stuff out of the pile preparatory to getting it off the island and disposed of somehow.  What sort of things do you suppose are in there?  Drums of nasty stuff that will rust through one day, if they haven't already?  PCBs were mentioned.  I think of power system transformers and capacitors and stuff like that.

I would think the Kiribati government would be more than cooperative in a project that would result in some improvement in the environment of the Island. not to mention the benefit to the economy.  I wonder what it might cost to do it that way?

***************************************************************

From Ric

Two weeks sounds about right to me too.  The trick would be transportation. Two weeks is too long to keep a plane or ship sitting around.  You'd pretty much have to figure on two airplane charters or find a time when the government was going Tarawa to Kanton to Kirimati and back to Kanton and then back to Tarawa with their ship (if they ever do that).  If we don't do it by air somebody is going to be away from home for a loooong time.

When we went to Kanton in March of this year ABC News sent a cameraman along and paid for the privilege.  I agree that it's a great story, but my sense is that nobody is going to make a separate documentary about the Canton engine, and it's for sure that nobody is going to tie up a film crew for two weeks to shoot something that is a sidebar to the larger Earhart search story.

I think the next step on this is coordination with the Kiribati government in Tarawa.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:16:08 EDT
From:         Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Earhart genealogy

I'm still trying to find some connected Noonans, but interestingly, I've been able to trace Amelia Earhart's ancestry to circa 1550 a.d.!! I pulled together the Earhart and Otis family trees, and got back ten generations! The unwinding of the family history shows about when and how the families got to Atchison, Kansas from New York and Pennsylvania locations, and before that, Prussia and Glastonbury, England. Ric, if you don't have this info and it would be of use, I'll gladly snail-mail the printouts to you right away.  On to the Noonans!----My prop spinneth over,   Gene Dangelo  :)

***************************************************************
From Ric

No, I don't have that information but I can't for the life of me think how it could be of any use in finding the lady.  Fortunately, we have a good source of Earhart DNA in her niece, if we need it.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:19:29 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Sextant box research

Ric wrote:

>The Greenwich base has been covered, as has the Ludolph company in Bremen and
>the Mariner's Museum in Newport News, VA.

From "The Noonan Project," May 15, 1998 issue:
"...examined something over 500 sextant and boxes in various collections."

Was the documentation also searched for possible pertinent information?
***************************************************************

From Ric

In most cases there was no documentation to search.  We were looking at sextant boxes to see if any had writing or stenciling on the exterior.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:21:30 EDT
From:         Ken Knapp
Subject:      Re: Radio compatibility

Actually, as long as the Coast Guard's equipment was tuned to AE's frequency, it doesn't matter whether they used hand tuning or crystals. The real issue would be dial calibration of the Coast Guard equipment. For example, if AE's crystal frequency was 5405 kc, the Coast guard would hand tune their dial to 5405 kc. If the calibration of their dial was off by a 10 kc, they'd hear nothing from AE, and if their transmit frequency was off due to dial calibration, AE would hear nothing. It's a valid issue, although I'm under the impression that military equipment was usually pretty up to snuff as far as calibration goes. We might need some input from our radio historian on typical calibration error in that era.

Ken Knapp
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:24:39 EDT
From:         Roberta Woods
Subject:      Re: Digging the engine

>With that kind of evidence in hand, getting sponsorship for more searching
>might be a lot easier.  Might the TV people, like "Discovery," be interested
>in the whole saga of the Canton Engine finally culminating in the dig --
>however that comes out?  I think it's a very interesting tale all the way
>from Bruce's sighting of the engine on the reef flat.  And even what those
>people were doing there in the first place.  I think It would make a great
>documentary for Discovery!  They seem to like archaeological stuff.  Hold
>your breath at the end... is it the right engine?

Of course, it occurs to me that TIGHAR wouldn't want to end up like Geraldo Rivera's huge flop after weeks of hype over the Al Capone fiasco in Chicago. Convincing Discovery would likely require some assurance against that fate. But, there IS an engine and not a bunch of stale air. Whether it is Earhart's engine is the question. I think it has a chance as a Discovery feature.

Roberta Woods
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:59:07 EDT
From:         Jim Dix
Subject:      Digging the engine

If there is all the mean & nasty stuff (PCB's etc.), might the Kiribati Government want it left alone, and not want the natives digging in it? That would sure be a bummer!

************************************************************

From Ric

We certainly wouldn't suggest that toxic material be handled by anyone but trained and properly protected professionals.  Fortunately, there is no indication that the dump where the engine is supposedly buried contains anything hazardous.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:23:19 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Re: Radio compatibility

Andrew McKenna wrote:

> He suggests that for AE to hear the Itasca clearly on any frequency, the
> Itasca's transmitter would have to fitted out with crystals matched to the
> same frequencies.

If AE had today's xtal transceivers that would be true, but her receiver was hand tuned like our older radios.  Upon the  first xmsn. from someone, AE  would have 'rocked' the dial around the 'advertized frequency' to get it in loud & clear, the same way we do for our radios that are not 'auto tune'.

 RC  941
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:47:25 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Radio Tuning and Calibration

These are all extremely good questions and they raise an important issue, regarding the "compatibility" of radio equipment USCG v. AE.

Let's establish a couple of things first:

AE's transmitter was crystal-controlled.  This means, it was locked to whatever frequency the crystal was "ground" or "cut" for,  or a harmonic -- i.e., a multiple -- of that frequency.  Some transmitters used what are called "fundamental" crystals, which means the crystal oscillated (operated) at the same frequency on which transmitter output was wanted -- in AE's case, those frequencies were 3105 or 6210 KHz.  Other transmitters used crystals cut for half or one third the output frequency, because it would be easier to "cut" a high-quality, mechanically rugged, and close-frequency-tolerance crystal for a lower frequency.  One or more frequency-multiplier stages would then be used, in the transmitter, to produce the "air" frequency which was then amplified by the power-amplifier stage and fed to the antenna.

The schematic diagram of the Western Electric 13C transmitter used in AE's aircraft appears to show one multiplier stage -- I cannot tell if it is a doubler or tripler.  This means, the actual crystal frequency for an output of 3105 KHz would have been either 1552.5 KHz or 1035 KHz.

Manufacturing tolerances for  quality crystals in the 30s were typically 0.05 percent, which means a 1552.5 KHz crystal could be "off frequency" by about plus-or-minus 78 Hertz.  Doubling that frequency means an error of about plus or minus 1.5 KHz at 3105, which is not much.  Communications receivers of that era had a tuning passband of 10 KHz at least.

The military employed frequency meters, which in reality were simple receivers whose tuning could be very accurately compared to an extremely-high- accuracy crystal frequency standard, to calibrate their equipment.  A typical 30s freq meter had an accuracy of 0.02 percent, less than half the error factor of typical transmitter crystals.  The Itasca's radios, if calibrated in such a manner, would have been pretty much "right on."

The rub comes in, though, when one considers that non-crystal-controlled receivers and transmitters "drift" over a period of time -- how much, depends upon the individual equipment -- and have to be recalibrated against the freq meter.  How often might this have been done aboard Itasca is anyone's guess.

My experience indicates that it would be a good idea to have done this at least once an hour, to maintain absolute accuracy of tuning.

Here is another rub:  the receiver aboard AE's aircraft was a "coffee grinder" and there was no way to easily and accurately "zero" its tuning to the frequency of the aircraft transmitter.

If she merely set the receiver tuning dial to 3105 KHz, for instance, the dial accuracy might have been questionable and she might not have actually been set to where she thought she was.  Did she know enough to "tune around" and search for the signal from the Itasca?  (I fear, not.)

Remember, this receiver was tuned from a remote crank-box head, by means of a tach shaft not unlike an automotive speedometer cable.  It is very easy to get a dial "off calibration" if the tuning cable is disconnected either at the receiver, or the head, and not re-engaged EXACTLY RIGHT.

Being a tunable receiver, and not crystal controlled, this radio was also subject to long-term frequency drift as well as getting off-frequency due to vibration and temperature changes in the aircraft.

In the "communications chain" the most accurately set piece would have been AE's transmitter.

A potential problem might arise if the multiplier stage in that transmitter was improperly tuned -- such that it tripled instead of doubled, or vice versa; that is, "got on the wrong harmonic."  The transmitter might have actually been putting out most of its power on some off frequency like 4657 KHz (Third harmonic, not second, of the crystal) when she was supposed to be on 3105.  With this old gear, it was not unknown for this to happen, and sometimes not all that easy to recognize... especially if the tech got into a hurry.  Or perhaps the final power amplifier stage could have become mistuned, and was spewing out power on the second harmonic....

This transmitter also employed "screen grid modulation" which means it had to be tuned very carefully in order to achieve undistorted output; but under the right conditions --especially if the radio tech was in a hurry or wasn't real familiar with the "quirks" of the gear -- it could get past him..

As an extra bit of information:  It was established that the major reason why the American air attacks during the Battle of Midway were so uncoordinated (dive bombers, torpedo bombers, fighters) was the fact that the "coffee grinder" receivers in many of the planes got off frequency, either due to electrical problems like drift, or "cockpit trouble."  This incident was a major impetus for getting away from HF communications for combat flying, and going to VHF where the channels were crystal controlled in both the transmitter and receiver.

A further note:  In response to a posting yesterday about antennas, it is worth noting that simply having a wire of "the right length" to be "resonant" at a particular frequency, is no guarantee that it will be actually resonate at that frequency -- especially on an aircraft.  The formulas used to calculate resonant lengths of wire are based on "free space" conditions (ideal conditions found in labs) and don't consider problems created by masses of metal in close proximity to an antenna -- that is, an aircraft structure and skin.

It is very much a cut-and-try process, especially in a "one off" situation like Amelia's aircraft.  If you are building hundreds or thousands of planes, like B-17s or C-47s or F4U Corsairs, once the parameters have been established through testing, you just cut the wire and hang it.

Sorry about the length; I was just trying to answer the questions.

I am still looking over the Electra radio material.

73  GA  GL  Best DX  AR
Mike E. the Radio Historian
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:50:01 EDT
From:         Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Re: Earhart genealogy

Well, yes, I agree that her past won't find her remains, but I was thinking more along the lines of your total accumulation of background information. You also bring up an important consideration on the DNA: while you do have an excellent source, the computer disks on which I found the genealogies buried also has a HUGE list of living kin, in the event some secondary source may be needed. In any event, you're welcome to the info, in case it may turn out to have some usefulness. I'd REALLY like to have the same kind of good luck with the NOONAN
genealogy!---Thanks, Gene Dangelo  :)
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:05:15 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Digging the engine

Aren't we kinda missing the point here - I think the suggestion (and I agree) is that we should place a high priority on finding the engine FIRST using whatever resources we can muster. Then, if it's the genuine article - it'll be worth a fortune in renewed interest and hopefully sponsorship / TV deals etc. to fund the Niku IIII trip.  Just think  - a genuine article which proves AE & FN weren't lost at sea.  Headline stuff definitely.

Regards
Simon Ellwood

****************************************************************

From Jim Dix 2132

I was not suggesting that it would be a "bummer" not to let the natives dig in the dump, but that the engine might be there and not be able to get at it! Sorry!

Jim Dix 2132

***************************************************************

From Ric

Understood.  Here's how I see it.

Yes, it would be great to find an Earhart engine on Canton.  Sure would shake up the skeptics and would probably shake loose funding.  That's why we went in March.  Now it turns out that investigating the engine story (and let's not forget that, although we totally believe Bruce, it is still an anecdotal account) will be very expensive.  If the value of the putative Canton engine is primarily as a fundraising tool, but finding it will cost nearly as much as going back to Niku, what's the point?

The bottom line would seem to be finding a way to dig for the Canton engine without having it cost an arm and a leg.

LTM,
Ric
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:12:17 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Radio compatibility

The Itasca transmitted several times to San Francisco and Honolulu prior to the flight (and during!) to ensure the frequency was at 3105kHz.  Everyone agreed it was right on frequency (did they have oscilloscopes in those days?).  Info from the radiomen's logs.
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:03:39 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Radio compatibility

Andrew McKenna write:

>Carrington suggests in his book (Amelia Earhart - A Report by G. Carrington)
>that there was some incompatibility between AE's relatively modern radio
>equipment tuned by crystals, and the older Coast Guard equipment tuned by
>hand, and therefore "subject to some degree of frequency shift".
>
>He suggests that for AE to hear the Itasca clearly on any frequency, the
>Itasca's transmitter would have to fitted out with crystals matched to the
>same frequencies.
>
>Sounds good to a layman, but I am wondering if any of our experts can comment
>on the validity of the idea.

        **********************************************

I expect this will be one of several responses to this posting.

There is no incompatibility here.  All that's involved is that AE's transmissions will be right on frequency -- as accurate as crystal control allows -- while the Itasca transmissions will be approximately on frequency -- as accurate as their dial calibration.

Both AE and Itasca will have to "find" the signals on their receiver dials. Neither of the receiver manual tuning dials will be exact.  That's nothing new to anyone -- even today, I should think!

Any radio receiver not having digital tuning (referenced to a crystal) is subject to this inaccuracy of dial calibration -- AM, FM, shortwave, whatever.  The dial lets you tune to about the right frequency, then you "hunt" for the best reception -- and hope it really is the station you wanted!

I think there is no doubt that AE and/or Fred were fiddling around with receiver tuning trying to find the Itasca transmissions.  The Itasca operator would have done the same thing although he was pretty sure where to set his dial to receive AE's crystal controlled signal.  I think I recall, from somewhere, that a frequency calibration was carried out before departure from Lae.  I guess it was the radio operator at Lae who confirmed that AE and the Itasca were transmitting on the same frequency -- he could hear them both at the same spot on his receiver dial.  This meant that they could each tune their receivers to their own transmitters thereby getting everything on the same frequency.  I presume this was at 3105 kc. and probably 6210 kc. too, if he could hear them both.
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:58:41 EDT
From:         Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Re: Radio Tuning and Calibration

Mike:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the error ratio of 78 Hz per 1552.5 Khz is doubled, wouldn't the doubled error be  plus or minus 156 Hz  (or .156 Khz) at 3105 Khz instead of 1.5 Khz., which would only further strengthen your argument that the variance from the XTAL controlled frequency would be too slight to be a problem. Heck, at .156 Khz, it would be well-nigh negligible!   73 de N3XKS   (Gene Dangelo)
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:09:19 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Lost researchers

Have I read things correctly?  Have we lost contact with our researchers in L.A. and in Seattle?  Back to square one on the Noonan Letters and picking up his trail in Seattle?

Is anything happening with regard to Carrington and the Wreck Photo?

****************************************************************

From Ric

It appears that some kind of force field has been eating our researchers in L.A. and Seattle.  However, our stalwart team member Russ Matthews has stepped forward to do battle in LaLa Land.  I'm not sure about Seattle.

We have a special agent on the Carrington case.  I figure any conspiracy theorist is entitled to be the victim of a genuine conspiracy.

Simon Ellwood in England is working on the Wreck Photo, as is the curator of the Point Cook RAAF Museum in Australia.  They have the only known Tachikawa Ki-54 fuselage in captivity and it is being compared to the Wreck Photo for structural similarities (or dissimilarities).

LTM
Ric
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:19:34 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Digging the engine

Is there any possibility this could be conducted partially by remote control? I recognize that it would be very desirable to have one or more TIGHAR people on site for the whole operation but perhaps economics, and time of personnel, dictate otherwise.

My impression is that there is a lot of stuff to be removed before getting close to the engine level -- bottom of the heap.  If one could feel confident that someone on the island would make sure activity stopped the moment the engine was sighted, work could be suspended until TIGHAR people were on the scene.

What kind of communication facilities exist on Canton?  Could one keep on top of what was going on?

**************************************************************

From Ric

In a word - 'fraidnot.  To communicate with Kanton you phone or fax somebody on Kiritimati (Christmas Island) and they relay your message by radio to someone whose English is sort of okay.  Cumbersome and imprecise are the adjectives which come to mind to describe the process.

Also, the I-Kiribati (formerly known as Gilbert Islanders) have a wonderfully independent spirit.  They're the only people I've met who are worse than I am about doing as they are told.
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:21:00 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      Radio Compatibility

In Reference to comments on compatibility between the Itasca and Earhart radios, Vern and RC are RIGHT ON!

Regards and LTM,

Bob
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:36:22 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Digging the engine

Ric wrote:

> Here's how I see it.
> Yes, it would be great to find an Earhart engine on Canton.  Sure would shake
> up the skeptics and would probably shake loose funding.  That's why we went in
> March.  Now it turns out that investigating the engine story (and let's not
> forget that, although we totally believe Bruce, it is still an anecdotal
> account) will be very expensive.  If the value of the putative Canton engine
> is primarily as a fundraising tool, but finding it will cost nearly as much as
> going back to Niku, what's the point?
>
> The bottom line would seem to be finding a way to dig for the Canton engine
> without having it cost an arm and a leg.

I'm afraid I agree with the others.  I think finding the engine should be a priority.  In the first place, I don't think the engine was found on Niku (just my opinion).  So...if it is her engine, I think you can forget Niku.  Why spend the money to search a whole island when you can spend the same amount and search a hundred square yards.

**************************************************************

From Ric

I understand the temptation to jump for the quick solution, but I can't agree that we should discount the mountain of evidence that says "Niku is the place" to chase an engine that:

A. might not be there
B. might be too far gone to ID if it is there
C. might not be AE's anyway

The Canton engine is a fascinating possibility, but it is ancillary to the main search for the conclusive solution of the riddle.

LTM,
Ric
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:44:41 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      FBI reply on possible Noonan file

I'll summarize the letter from the Dept. of Justice. It' s a form letter.

Dear Requester:

[then there are seven different possible paragraphs with check boxes in front of them with varying responses). My letter has a check on the sentence that states:]

This acknowledges your FOIPA request submitted to the FBI. Your request has been assigned the number above. Please use this number in corresponding with us."

2nd page: "Your request is pending in the Initial Processing Unit of the Freedom of Information-Privacy Acts Section.

Due to the thousands of requests on hand, delays of more than one year are not unusual. We are in the process of increasing our staff by over 200 employees in an effort to reduce the turn-around time for handling requests. Despite this substantial commitment of personnel resources, we anticipate that significant delays will continue until such time as we can work through the thousands of backlogged requests.

At this time, we cannot estimate with any degree of accuracy how much longer it will be before your request is completed."

I just wonder if they would be sadistic enough to make us wait a year to tell us they don't have a file.

Smooth Sailing,
Ron 2126.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Sadism isn't required.  It could be a year before somebody gets around to finding out that there is no file.
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:53:34 EDT
From:         HAG
Subject:      Re: Digging the engine

>  The bottom line would seem to be finding a way to dig for the Canton engine
>  without having it cost an arm and a leg.

If Canton has a serviceable airport, why not charter a 727 and sell a camping, working, holiday excursion for 200 Tigharistes @ $500 a pop? I.e.Bring your own shovel.  HAG

******************************************************

From Ric

I'm not at all sure we could find 200 people who would do that, and if we did I have no idea how we could support 200 people on Kanton for several days. The Holiday Inn is closed for renovations.  I'd also be very surprised if $100,000 would do the trick.  There's also the question of refueling.  etc. etc.
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:45:31 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: RADIOS

>>Clearly AE knew something  about her loop & 7.5 mc that we do not.
>
>I have had that suspicion myself.

Yes, we might stop theorizing for a moment about how inept AE was with her radio equipment and assume she had some reason for what she did.  She may have observed at some time, perhaps by accident, that she could hear signals on higher frequencies with the loop and reasoned that she could DF on anything she could hear.  That might not be true, but she may have had no reason doubt it.

I keep falling back on the article in Aero Digest which is the only thing I know of that provides any information about the Bendix loops of the various models -- and that "coupling unit."  It's just a magazine article written by a "journalist" but it's all I've seen.  And it says of the loops, in part:

"They may be used as fixed-loop homing devices or as navigational direction finding instruments within the range of 200-1500 kcs."

Clearly, this is where they were intended to be used.  But that does not preclude the possibility that they might respond in some fashion to signals of much higher frequency.  AE was close to the Itasca and it was a strong signal.

We think she lost her normal receiving antenna.  The loop was at least a connection to something outside the skin of the aircraft.  Although it was an electrostatically shielded loop, shielding is never 100%.  And maybe it did respond to the magnetic component of the signal, as it did at the intended lower frequency signals.  But I think it's unlikely that loop would have the typical directivity pattern when operating this way.  She couldn't get a null.

I don't know how we can resolve that one short of experimenting with a nearly identical loop -- or finding some data on just how such loops behave at frequencies such as 7500 kcs.

While we're talking loops...  The next paragraph in the article explains:

1. How the Bendix loops could work with any receiver,

2, How the sense antenna gets into the act, and

3. How the balanced/unbalanced problem is taken care of.

"Each DF unit consists of a loop unit for reception of signals, a coupling unit for comparing characteristics of the signal received by the loop with those received by a fixed antenna, and the necessary cables and connections. The electrical coupling unit automatically resolves the 180 degree ambiguity of the loop, permitting unilateral bearings."

1. The coupling unit does all the stuff unique to DFing.  Any receiver is OK.

2. The sense antenna is connected to the coupling unit -- not the receiver.

3. The output of the coupling unit is unbalanced (one side grounded) and can be connected directly to the antenna terminal of a receiver.  With these receivers, there is no coaxial connector, just a push-type terminal for a simple insulated wire connection.

One further thought... A sense antenna may not have been used.  I suspect that it could be worked that way.  The ambiguity would exist but there are ways around that.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:51:27 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Crystal concerns

Gene Dangelo wrote:

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the error ratio of 78 Hz per 1552.5
> Khz is doubled, wouldn't the doubled error be  plus or minus 156 Hz  (or
> .156 Khz) at 3105 Khz instead of 1.5 Khz., which would only further
> strengthen your argument that the variance from the XTAL controlled
> frequency would be too slight to be a problem. Heck, at .156 Khz, it
> would be well-nigh negligible!

Ooops... I dropped a decimal place.  For an 0.05% tolerance, considering a 1552.5 KHz crystal (half the transmitting frequency),  the error is a shade less than 780 Hz (not 78 Hz) and this, doubled, is about 1.56 KHz error at 3105.

At this point I have not established exactly what tolerance was specified for the crystals in the WE 13C transmitter; but, they were high accuracy and were also temperature-stabilized, in ovens, no less.  Probably made by Bliley, or James Knights.  They might have been even better than 0.05%, but I doubt it.   I will see if I can determine this, just for laughs; but it probably does not matter that much.  The point is, the frequency tolerance would have been quite tight.  AE would have been "right on," barring a major malfunction like a runaway crystal oven (overheating) or a defect in the crystal.  The evidence I have seen does not suggest either sort of difficulty.

The technology for grinding very high quality and high tolerance crystals was definitely there, in AE's day.  For your information -- or maybe you knew this already -- A-M broadcast transmitters are held to plus-or-minus 15 Hz, and have been since the thirties.  If we consider a crystal cut for 1500 KHz, that works out to a tolerance of  plus-or-minus 0.001%.  In those days such a high tolerance, high-reliability crystal would have been expensive -- prohibitively so, for aviation use -- but 0.05% would have been eminently acceptable; especially considering the fact that communications receivers of the era had 10 KHz or wider passbands.  Even 1.56 KHz would be a negligible error.

73
Mike #2194
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:53:13 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Freedom of Information

I had to wait four years before my FOI on George Putnam was processed and forwarded to me.  Be VERY patient.
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:57:40 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Ki-54s

I believe there's also a Ki-54 fuselage in Beijing, China but have conflicting sources to it's exact location. There's a photo dated 1993 of it in the book "War Prizes" by Phil Butler in the Beijing  Aviation Museum. Its looks a bit battered.  Another undated source says it's in a kid's playground.

Point Cook's obviously our best bet though as I suspect Chinese Tighars are a bit thin on the ground.

No news yet from Point Cook?

***************************************************************

From Ric

No news yet from Point Cook.  Yes, we're a bit thin in Beijing.
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:03:51 EDT
From:         Kari Donaldson
Subject:      FBI and FOI

Doesn't anybody out there have any friends at the FBI that might be able to speed things along?
Kari

***************************************************************

From Ric

We have friends at the FBI.  We even have a long-time TIGHAR member who is an agent.  We can make some inquiries but it won't surprise me if the FOI process is something that you don't mess with.
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:55:49 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Kanton & Tarawa

Sheesh, you're getting so NEGATIVE, Ric!  I kind of like the idea of 200 crazed TIGHARites charging out of a 727 to attack the Kanton dump, shovels at the ready.  Of course, shovels may not be what we need in the coral rubble. I'm afraid it's going to be lots of bare (or gloved) hands work.

Seriously, if one could handle all the complexities of liability insurance and such, and of course the charter costs, taking a big unruly group might not be an entirely infeasible idea.  But I realize that those are huge "ifs," and pains in the backside for those who have to deal with them.

I'm also not entirely sure that the "remote control" idea should be rejected out of hand.  We discussed this a bit on Kanton, I recall, and you had a good argument against it, but now I can't remember exactly what it was.  We really don't need much in the way of archeological control digging the dump -- in fact, I can't think of why we'd need much of any.  The context of the engine, if it's there, is irrelevant.  Off the top of my head I can't think why one couldn't hire the residents to dig the dump and pile up all the metal, and then have a very short trip there for someone to pick through what they found. Not as desirable as having a team on the ground to keep things focused, but not beyond the realm of possibility.

And finally, I can't help but wonder whether the sheer visual interest of having a whole bunch of people (islanders or others) grubbing in the coral and passing rocks hand-to-hand, combined with the detective-story interest of the engine and its connection (sic) with Earhart wouldn't appeal to some element of the media -- particularly if it weren't hyped as a Geraldo sort of thing, but explained as the kind of legitimate research it is.

That's my two bits worth for the day.

LTM
TK
***************************************************************

From Ric

Me?  Negative?  Hell, I'm in favor of anything that will actually work.  Over the years I've learned (the hard way) that an expedition - like politics - is the "art of the possible."  What I'm negative about is me spending a lot of time I don't have trying to put something together that my experience tells me won't work.

It's easy, and not necessarily bad, to approach these things with the problem-solving techniques pioneered by Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland (Hey kids, I know!  We could put on a SHOW!) but I spent a year trying to figure out a way to get a team to Kanton and I can tell you that the logistical and marketing problems involved in the "200 crazed TIGHARs on a 727" approach are enormous and very probably insurmountable.

The Gilbertese Treasure Hunt approach has more promise. I think that it is primarily a matter of getting a credible and clearly articulated request communicated to the good people of Kanton.  We would need to offer to pay them a fair price for the work (but I have no idea how much that would be) and I wonder if it's something that should go through Tarawa.  After all, we're talking about contracting for labor in a foreign country.  Making it all official via Tarawa would give the offer credibility and would help us establish a fair price and a formal avenue of communication.

We now have a number of reasons for a TIGHAR delegation to visit Tarawa in the relatively near future.  This matter has actually been under discussion for some time and we already have a basic diplomatic/research team selected for the mission.  We'll fund the trip the same way we funded the Kanton Mission earlier this year, with a few sponsor/team members who will make a significant financial contribution and also participate fully in the work to be done.  As soon as the timing and budget for the trip are set I'll post that information and invite potential sponsor/team members to apply for a place on the team.

LTM,
Ric
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:03:08 EDT
From:         Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Digging the engine

Charter a plane large enough with the range, charge $1,000, bring your own tent, c-rations & shovel.

If you can fill a cruise ship to go to Niku, you will find folks who want that engine.

Maybe even me.

Love to mother,
Mike
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:06:36 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Lost researchers

I'm still here and working on the Noonan letters.  But I'm afraid I'm up against a brick wall.  I'm getting no where.  I am in weekly contact with my source here.  I think someday I will get to see the letters. Right now. . . I just don't know!  The thought of them being there and not opened is killing me.  I'll let you all know when it breaks.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Hang in there Don.
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:14:37 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Digging the engine

Ric wrote:

> I understand the temptation to jump for the quick solution, but I can't agree
> that we should discount the mountain of evidence that says "Niku is the place"
> to chase an engine that;
> A. might not be there
> B. might be too far gone to ID if it is there
> C. might not be AE's anyway
>
> The Canton engine is a fascinating possibility, but it is ancillary to the main
> search for the conclusive solution of the riddle.

BUT. . .the Electra MIGHT NOT be on Niku

IF it is. . .it might be too deep to recover.

The bones may NOT be AE'S or FN's

We have to search the Island, the Lagoon and the waters around the island.  Impossible in our lifetime, with our budget.  I still think the engine needs to be found and at least disqualified.  Hiring locals on Canton is worth a thought.  What would it cost to fly or boat in one TIGHAR member to organize?  I think we need dirt under our fingernails now.

**************************************************************

From Ric

>What would it cost to fly or boat in one TIGHAR member to organize?

The trick, of course, is that if it's a dedicated flight or voyage it costs as much to get one TIGHAR there as it does to get a dozen there.  The best tactic is to watch for an opportunity to piggyback one TIGHAR on somebody else's trip to Kanton.  We're watching for that opportunity.
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:19:44 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      AE's frequencies

Everything that surfaces about AE's radio communications adds a few more worms to the can.  And they just get more tangled and wiggly and hard to get hold of! Without having really studied these messages (I think it could make you crazy), I'm inclined to comment on a few points.

There seems to have been a general understanding that the DF covered from about 200 to 1400 kc.  Did AE understand this?  Why did she try to work it at 7500 kc? I do note that 7500 kc was mentioned as one of the frequencies that could be used.  That's not so much out of thin air as had seemed the case to me with only the "Log Jam" communications to go by.

It's very difficult for me to believe that AE knew of some strange characteristic of the DF that prompted her to ask for 7500 kc.  It must have been a mistake -- a misunderstanding.  It has always bothered me that if you drop the last zero, you have 750.  And 750 meters is 400 kc which would make a lot of sense.  We see in these messages that AE herself did speak in terms of wavelength -- 25 meters and 46 meters (6/30/37).  Did she get confused? Did she really want 400 kc, a suitable frequency for the DF?

Curiously, she also speaks of frequency in megacycles instead of the more usual kilocycles -- and mixing them in the same message!  (If she had thrown in megahertz too, we'd really be in trouble!)  Does she know more about frequencies and wavelengths than I give her credit for?  Or is she totally confused about everything having to do with radio?

Curiouser and curiouser said Alice...  (6/1/37) AE seems to be asking that the Ontario transmit on 400 kc.  She knows she doesn't have the long-wire antenna. Does she expect to use the loop -- DF on the Ontario?  We don't know whether she heard the Ontario or not.  The Ontario didn't hear her.

All this communication about frequencies and wavelengths and all we have is a few transmissions by AE on 3105 kc heard by the Itasca.  All AE ever heard was some dit-dahs on 7500 kc using the DF loop.

Bob Sherman has suggested that hearing the Itasca for the first time on 7500 kc might have prompted AE to try 6210 kc.  And she presumably switched from the loop to no-antenna-at-all and still didn't hear anything.  Nor was she heard from again.  There would be no reason for her to go back to 3105 kc. She had never heard anything there.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:35:21 EDT
From:         Mac
Subject:      Radio Tuning and Calibration

What kind of factual info is available about QSO's performed by AE/FN before Lae Take off. By the way, a radio gear ground test at Lae, DOESN'T imply a good performance of the radio gear in DX conditions, during the Lae to Howland dest. leg.

73, Mac

****************************************************************

From Ric

The only information we have about radio tests in Lae come from Eric Chaters' report.  Chater says,

"At 6:35 a.m. July 1st, Miss Earhart carried out a 30 minute air test of the machine when two way telephone communication was established between the ground station at Lae and the plane.  The Operator was requested to send a long dash while Miss Earhart endeavored to get a minimum on her direction finder.  On landing Miss Earhart informed us that she had been unable to obtain a minimum and that she considered this was because the Lae station was too powerful and too close. ...

Our Wireless Operator reports,

The condition of radio equipment of Earhart's plane is as follows - transmitter carrier wave on 6210 KC was very rough and I advised Miss Earhart to pitch her voice higher to overcome distortion caused by rough carrier wave, otherwise transmitter seemed to be working satisfactorily."
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:39:48 EDT
From:         Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Digging the engine

Ric wrote:

>I understand the temptation to jump for the quick solution...

Pursuing the strongest anecdotal evidence to date is not a jump for a quick solution.  If you think it is, then you jumped to a quick solution blowing 50K to go to Canton.

>but I can't agree that we should discount the mountain of evidence that
>says "Niku is the place" to chase an engine

Looking for the engine on Canton does not mean we are "discounting the
mountain of evidence".

>that
>A. might not be there

You have gone on and on about this R 1340 business, you obviously feel Bruce is credible ($50K again) so the engine is there or Bruce is dreamed this all up.  The engine is there, and it's Amelia's.

Go get it Ric.

>B. might be too far gone to ID if it is there

If you find it, you can ID it in today's day and age, with all the modern analytical techniques available.

>C. might not be AE's anyway

Well, then, where's a 1340 gonna come from?? More aircraft are lost in the Phoenix Is area?

>The Canton engine is a fascinating possibility, but it is ancillary to
>the main search for the conclusive solution of the riddle.

Ancillary?  I hardly think so. It's our best lead so far.

LTM,
Mike
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:30:43 EDT
From:         Dick Pingrey
Subject:      GPR

I assume that the use of ground penetrating radar to locate the engine on Kanton has been considered.  I don't recall seeing it mentioned in the FORUM.  I have no knowledge of how effective it would be, the cost, etc. but being able to locate where to dig should be a big help, especially if the digging is to be done by hand.  Perhaps some one with knowledge of this technology could provide some comment.

Dick Pingrey 908C
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:37:50 EDT
From:         Jim W.
Subject:      To join or not to join

If the following notation would have merit and someone who had the expertise and connections would at least look into the possibility, I would not hesitate to put up a thousand or two to go on an expedition of this sort.  I am a member of this forum but not of TIGHAR and I would join quickly if there were the chance to pay and go.  What a vacation this would present.  I agree with your earlier comments that a true archeological/research excursion requires a very compatible group.  But a vacation/work type of trip is successfully done frequently for other exploratory reasons when there is a group of people with a common interest.  There sure is a common interest in this issue.

With the Canton engine so significant to the Earhart/Noonan issue, it is unsettling to dismiss the idea too easily.  Maybe HAG could use his  shovel to dig up the information on what it would take to accomplish the expedition.

Jim W.
***************************************************************

From Ric

I don't want to appear dismissive of the Canton engine.  It's a good lead that needs to be followed up with further work.  I just want to find a way to do that without losing the focus on our ultimate goal of solving the Earhart riddle.  Remember, even in a best-case scenario, finding Earhart's engine on Canton would only prove what didn't happen to her, not what did.

Your comments about your willingness to join TIGHAR if we provided an opportunity for an adventure vacation gets right to the heart of what TIGHAR is about.  Many organizations, profit and non, offer chances for people to go to exotic places and have unique experiences.  For some of us, going whitewater rafting in Nepal rings hollow because it seems as pointless as, say, trying to circumnavigate the earth in a balloon.  Experience for the sake of experience.  Trying to drive around the block blindfolded is more thrilling and considerably cheaper.

TIGHAR is not about having experiences.  TIGHAR is about education and about making significant additions to the fund of knowledge regarding aviation-related historical events through solid research and, where appropriate, field work.  The field work takes us to exotic places because that's where the unrecovered airplanes happen to be.   The fact that working in these places inevitably involves having unusual experiences (aka "adventures") is incidental but fortunate in that it attracts funding through the sale of media rights.

The hope of going along on a romantic expedition is a poor reason for joining TIGHAR. Expedition participants who are primarily motivated by a desire to have an experience usually find that the experience they get is not what they had in mind.  But all TIGHAR members participate in supporting the educational and historical work of the organization and share the satisfaction of our mutual accomplishments.  It's that experience that makes it important to have a TIGHAR member number after your name.

========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:51:21 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Label Fragment

Through the good offices of Bob Perry 2021, the Label Fragment is now at McCrone Associates near Chicago for detailed analytical work to determine its age.  They plan to start with microscopy and proceed to more elaborate techniques, including the destructive testing of a very small sample of the physical material.

We hope that this will tell us with greater certainty whether we have a relatively modern artifact or something that is more contemporaneous with the Earhart flight and the discovery of the bones on Nikumaroro.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:58:04 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Voyage of Discovery

The following announcement was mailed out to all TIGHAR members yesterday, Aug. 20, 1998.
********************************************************

The Earhart Project
Niku IIII Expedition

Voyage of Discovery
Educational Program

TIGHAR's ten-year investigation of the 1937 disappearance of Amelia Earhart and her navigator Fred Noonan has uncovered compelling evidence that history's most famous missing flight ended on the uninhabited Central Pacific atoll of Nikumaroro. Our hope is that the next research trip to the island will find the conclusive physical proof that will at last solve the mystery, but the Niku IIII Expedition has a much more important purpose.

In the course of our investigation it has become apparent that the process of uncovering the truth about the Earhart disappearance has tremendous value as a vehicle for interdisciplinary teaching.  We've seen students of all ages embrace the mystery and, by following and participating in TIGHAR's investigation, absorb the principles of critical thinking and the scientific method while becoming familiar with a panoply of subjects from aerodynamics, to DNA testing, to folklore interpretation, to geography, to navigation, to remote-sensing technologies, to zoology, and much more.

We have come to realize that what really happened to Amelia Earhart is not nearly as important as the lessons which can be learned in the course of a rational search for the answer to the riddle.  Of course, we hope and expect that the final proof is discoverable and, indeed, sound methodology and hard work are producing exciting and rewarding results.  But we have no control over what may or may not have survived to be found.  We can, however, put the appeal of the Earhart mystery to work and use the Niku IIII Expedition as a Voyage of Discovery, not just for a handful of researchers, but for tens of thousands of students who will discover the thrill of scientific investigation and learn problem-solving skills they can apply to the mysteries they face in their daily lives.


Elements of the
Voyage of Discovery
Educational Program


*  A Voyage of Discovery website will be inaugurated four months before the expedition which will offer a series of fifteen weekly presentations complete with photos, film clips and interactive features which will provide background information on the Earhart flight, its disappearance, the investigation so far, and the preparations for the Niku IIII Expedition.

*  Live internet coverage on the Voyage of Discovery website of the 40 day Niku IIII Expedition aboard the expedition ship Nai'a (Hawaiian for dolphin), a 120 foot motor-sailer based in Fiji.  Daily updates with photos and live chat sessions with members of the scientific party will cover the five-day 1,000 mile voyage from Fiji to Nikumaroro, the 30 days of on-site archaeological investigations, and the return voyage.

*  Printed curriculum materials for Elementary, Middle School, and High School age groups will be produced and marketed following the Niku IIII Expedition enabling educators to use TIGHAR's investigation as a context for interdisciplinary studies.

*  To supplement the published curriculum materials, a series of three educational videotapes geared to Elementary, Middle School, and High School age groups will be produced from footage shot during and after the Niku IIII Expedition.

*  A Voyage of Discovery CD-Rom will be produced and marketed following the Niku IIII Expedition which will enable students to recreate Earhart's flight and conduct their own investigation of her disappearance.  State of the art interactive features will allow students to gather clues, formulate a hypothesis and test their theory through original source research and a virtual expedition.  They will examine rare historical documents, analyze anecdotal accounts, search for and find artifacts to identify, and learn how to draw supportable conclusions.  The Voyage of Discovery CD-Rom will have all the allure of popular fantasy adventure games but will deal with real facts and actual historical events.



Funding

TIGHAR's previous expeditions to Nikumaroro were, by necessity, funded in an atmosphere of crisis. Amelia Earhart's fate had never before been the subject of sound academic investigation and traditional avenues of funding for historical and archaeological research were not available. Our answer was to set an expedition date, put a deposit on a ship and set out to somehow complete the budget.  This is akin to climbing out onto the edge of a cliff and announcing that you're about to jump off, so would somebody please give you a parachute?

Through the great generosity of many TIGHAR members and the willingness of media to pay rights fees to cover the expedition, this sheer-will approach enabled us to conduct four expeditions and demonstrate that genuine progress could be made on this legendary mystery through the rigorous application of sound methodology.  But crisis fundraising has a price.  Uncertainty impairs pre-expedition training and the testing of essential technology.  Budgetary constraints also meant that we were never able to afford as much time on the island as we needed which, in turn, made for expeditions carried out in an atmosphere of urgency and, ultimately, exhaustion.

We're not going to do it that way this time.  The project has established its credentials and demonstrated it's viability as a serious historical and educational endeavor. Funding for the Niku IIII Expedition and the Voyage of Discovery educational program is being sought from foundation and corporate grants.  The expedition itself will be scheduled at least one year from the date that full funding is assured, thereby permitting proper preparation and training for a full 30 days on site.


Time Line

We would like to conduct the Niku IIII Expedition from April 29 to June 8, 2000.  This would put us in the Central Pacific in a benign weather period toward the end of the academic year in the U.S.  The expedition ship Nai'a is holding this time slot for us. The following is a schedule built around those dates.

April 1999
Deadline for securing of full funding for the expedition and the educational program.

January 2000
Voyage of Discovery website goes on line with weekly presentations of background material for schools and individuals.

April 29 to June 8, 2000
Niku IIII Expedition with live internet coverage on Voyage of Discovery website

June through December 2000
Post-expedition research, evaluation, and artifact conservation. Voyage of Discovery website provides periodic updates.

January through June 2001
Final production of curriculum materials, educational videos and CD-ROM. Voyage of Discovery website provides teacher support.

A New Focus
We've seen the incredible educational value of the Earhart mystery many times before.  In a typical week during the school year we get three or four requests from students for help with Earhart reports and projects.  We've talked about Amelia Earhart with first-graders and we've given lectures on investigative methodology at West Point.  Recognizing that the educational impact of the project is not a side-effect but is, rather, the main point of our work represents a major change in focus for the Earhart Project. Not that we'll be conducting the research or the field work any differently, but it formally acknowledges something that we have know all along.  We are scholars, not treasure hunters.  By giving the project an educational focus we open up a whole new array of potential funding sources - public, private and corporate foundations which make grants for educational projects.

To help us plow this fertile new ground we now have a Development Director for Education. Barbara Norris (TIGHAR 2175) is an educator who has used Earhart's life and TIGHAR's work as the central elements in a hugely successful 4th grade gifted/talented program.  Barb is expanding that curriculum and tackling the complex but all-important process of preparing detailed budgets and submitting grant applications to likely foundations. Funding, ideally, will come from many different sources.


In the meantime, we still rely on your support to keep the project moving forward.  New offerings such as the Renewal Sale, the Electra model and the Noonan Project T-shirt give us new ways to say thank you for making it possible for your organization to carry on this important work.

Let us know what you think of the Voyage of Discovery educational program and use the enclosed card to make whatever contribution you can.  Thank you.

========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:11:06 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Noonan Project shirts

Also mailed out to all TIGHAR members yesterday was a notice that we are now taking orders for NOONAN PROJECT t-shirts.  The logo is just like that on the Earhart Project shirts except the silhouette of the Electra is replaced by a sextant.  Same price - $20 (plus $5 for overseas shipping to a member, $10 overseas shipping to nonmember)
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:01:52 EDT
From:         unknown
Subject:      Noonan T-shirts

Not a member yet, but want a shirt.  Send address please.  Also, would like to purchase Earhart Project Shirt.  Thank you.

**************************************************************

From Ric

Just send a check or credit card info (VISA or MC) to:
TIGHAR
2812 Fawkes Drive
Wilmington, DE  19808

The T-shirts are $20 each.  Shipping and handling are:
Members in North America - no charge
Members overseas - $5
Nonmembers in North America - $5
Nonmembers overseas - $10
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:10:40 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: GPR

Regarding Ground Penetrating Radar, it is a good device for searching for buried objects, up to the point of the water table.  Visual displays and analysis of the data usually require stratigraphy (a fancy word for layering within the ground) or disturbance thereof.  With coral rubble, there is usually no stratigraphy.  Niku presumably has a fairly high water table.  TIGHAR's use of metal detectors (a poor man's GPR) is likely a better solution.

Randy Jacobson.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Hand-held metal detectors are great but I can tell you that they're useless at the Kanton Dump.  The place is dirty with metal.  The water table should not be a factor at the dump.

I've never used GPR but I understand that it's usually pulled along on a wee cart and it works best if you can get a good seal between the unit and the ground.  That would be pretty tough at the dump where we're dealing with an irregular mound of coral rubble.  It would, however, be of considerable benefit to be able to look down into the pile and see the shape and size of large metallic objects beneath the surface.
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:20:25 EDT
From:         Tom Ruprecht
Subject:      Kanton Engine Dig-Safety

I'm surprised that Ric has not yet said anything about the nightmare of personnel safety on a charter involving 200 Tighars to Kanton.  I've never been on a TIGHAR expedition, but it appears to me that Ric puts the health and safety of the team above all else, trying to avoid "adventures." Digging in a junk pile with large pieces of metal, sharp pieces and the (OK, maybe small) possibility of toxics in a hot place, with people who have never worked together- 'nuff said.

If such a large expedition is put together, it would, of necessity, have to be run with military discipline, tight organization, at least a modicum of training (note that you must attend a course before attending even a level I expedition, and this could be a level II or III) and a great deal of planning (read "time").

Ric and Pat work pretty darned hard to keep our ship in the air as it is. The idea might turn out to be workable somehow, but I respectfully suggest that we be cautious in pushing the idea of a large expedition, even if somehow affordable.

Rupe  #1465C

***************************************************************

From Ric

Ric has not yet said anything about the nightmare of personnel safety on a charter involving 200 Tighars to Kanton because Ric knows it ain't gonna happen.  The dump will get dug and the questions of whether there's an engine in there and what engine it is will get answered, and it will be done responsibly, economically, and safely - but maybe not as quickly as we would all prefer.
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:01:23 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Label Fragment

Ric! The label fragment had a Bar code on it. . . It's worthless!

***************************************************************

From Ric

There's a principle involved here that has caused me great embarrassment when I have failed to adhere to it.  Let's call it The Principle of Accurate Language.  It goes like this.

Language shapes thought.  If we don't use accurate language to describe what we know, we end up thinking that we know things that we don't really know.

We know that the label fragment has some markings on it which appear to be identical to a very small part of a barcode.  If it is not a barcode it is an amazing coincidence, but we can not say at this time that the label has a barcode on it. (Amazing coincidences are far more common than most people think.  That's how psychics make their living.)   We also have a couple of expert opinions that other markings on the fragment are very characteristic of the 1930s.  We have conflicting evidence about the age of the label.

Whether the label is modern or vintage, it is not worthless.  On the contrary, it is because it is so important that we must be as sure as possible about its age. If the fragment is modern, then the fire it came from is modern and is NOT the fire found by Gallagher in 1940.  The shoe parts found near the fire are known to be of mid-1930s vintage (the Cat's Paw company dated the heel).  Therefore, if the label is modern it means that the site where Gallagher found bones, a fire, shoe parts, etc. remains undiscovered but is probably quite close by.

If the label is from the 1930s then it is highly probable that the fire is the same fire Gallagher found and that we've already done an intense examination of the site where the bones were found.

I hope the label turns out to be modern because it would open up a realistic possibility that somewhere nearby there is an as yet undiscovered site that could yield more artifacts and maybe even bones.  But we must be as sure as we can be about the label's age before we build our field work plan around the conclusions we draw from it.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:10:35 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Noonan Project shirts

I'm in for a couple. . .Didn't get a notice yet.  Do I just send you $40.00?  My size is "Big Guy" XXL.  Of course after we dig that engine, I'll need a "S".  Will we have any sizes for children?

***************************************************************
From Ric

Yes.  Send money.  We'll have XXLs but we don't usually order anything smaller than a Medium because there is virtually no demand.  HOWEVER, we are happy to special-order size Small shirts.  We can also special-order XXXL shirts for anyone who needs those proportions (or wants an unusual bedspread).  The XXXL shirts are an additional $3.
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:14:24 EDT
From:         Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Re: digging the engine

OK Ric, now you have 2 ready to dig for AE's engine. I have two shovels and an extra set of gloves. But do it soon, I'm not getting any younger.

LTM,
Mike
***************************************************************

From Ric

What we have here is a failure to communicate.
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:16:43 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: GPR

I'm not an expert on GPR, but I know enough about it to doubt that it would do us any good on Kanton.  The ground's too churned up, full of cavities and irregularities, too much composed of irregular sized coral chunks and rubble (it's not really "ground;" it's coral fragments), and too full of machine parts that AREN'T parts of 1340s.

While I'm about it, I'll add that I think Mike Ruiz makes some excellent points in favor of pushing Kanton up on the priority list.

Tom King

****************************************************************

From Ric

Agreed.
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:25:41 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Priorities

Re: Remember, even in a best-case scenario, finding Earhart's engine on Canton would only prove what didn't happen to her, not what did.

Yeah, but that would be a VERY big deal in and of itself, and would almost certainly generate interest in funding further island studies.  And as Mike, and Randy Jacobson, and others, have pointed out, there are real dangers in focusing too narrowly on Niku.  Much as I love Niku, and impressed as I am by the evidence we've got, there are perfectly viable hypotheses for landings on other islands, and I for one live in dread of going back to Niku and getting skunked again.  I know, Ric, my dread isn't even CLOSE to yours.

LTM
Tom King

***************************************************************

From Ric

You got that right.

I am but the servant of the people.  I humbly suggest that we get our butts over to Tarawa as soon as it can be funded and arranged and then make digging the engine our next priority.  I put Tarawa first because that could be the key to Kanton.

I am braced for replies.
========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:32:04 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Digging the engine

So what's needed is a Special Agent on the ground, and the funds to pay some husky natives to do the work.  Someone who can take about a month off and spend most of it on Kanton.  If the engine is there, he yells for TIGHAR as soon as it's sighted.

A few years ago I would not have hesitated, paid my own way and kept myself alive for the duration.  An interesting "working vacation!"  Who am I kidding?  If I were really a free agent, I'd do it today!  Well, I might need about a month to get in shape!  It's been a long time since I last lived under really primitive conditions.

***************************************************************

From Ric

I can see that we're going to have to arrange something or we'll have people renting rowboats and setting off for Kanton.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:25:10 EDT
From:         Mike Rejsa
Subject:      Fires & Enemies

A couple points:

1. When I camp, if there's evidence of a previous fire I kind of automatically tend to make my fire in the same spot. There's no reason that an AE fire and a later fire couldn't have been built in the same place. I know this unfortunately confuses issues even more.

2. Finding the Kanton engine will win you legions of enemies, as it disproves those who say the Electra sank off Mili, those who say it burned on Saipan, etc. etc. With Kanton having never been in Japanese hands, it would be hard to propose a theory that, say, the Electra sank at Mili, was recovered and shipped to Saipan, burned there, and then had one engine smuggled to Kanton to confuse the round-eyes. These folks are going to insist that the Kanton engine is nothing but a load of guano - we'd best hope that conclusive ID is possible!

Mike Rejsa, new Tighar #2203

***************************************************************
From Ric

Good point about the fire.  Dr. Tom?  Y'all's the arkologist.  Did you see anything in our excavation of the burn feature that might indicate stacked fires of different ages?  And would there be any way to distinguish such a thing if it did happen?

Legions of enemies?  So what else is new?  If we find something good they'll say we planted it there.  We may as well confess right now.  Yes, we found the Electra on Saipan and have been planting chunks of it around the Phoenix islands just to prove our theory.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:09:25 EDT
From:         Chester Baird
Subject:      What to do next.

1.      Get a realistic cost analysis of both potential expedition sites for the size of party to realistically expect.  (allow for more members, (if they qualify) and provide that cost analysis.
2.      Post the dangers that are currently known to you for both sites.
3.      Poll the member and funds providers as to whether Niku or Kanton is next to be explored.  (Only individuals donating should have a say in this).  It may benefit us all equally,  but without funding, nothing gets done.
4.      Choose a course of action based on the outcome and on deposits received.

You have my vote. You have been there and done that.
I have learned more from this forum about AE  and FN than from all other sources to date. As I stated in an earlier posting, I have no desire to go there and do that. When the time comes to pay up, I will double check my accounts and pay a share based on needs and what I can afford. PS: I will not be among the top donators, just reliable.
LTM
Chester
***************************************************************
From Tom King

Oh, I agree that Tarawa is first on the list, for a lot of reasons -- in fact, so many that we need to get our priorities and plans even for THAT trip nailed down very carefully; I can imagine Kiribati officialdom going into collective sensory overload at all the stuff we're kicking around.  I'm just agreeing with Mike and others that Kanton shouldn't be put too low on the priority list, considering that it should be cheaper and quicker to do than a Return to Niku, that discovering the engine WOULD demolish the crashed and sank hypothesis, and that there ARE other islands than Niku on which AE and FN
could have wound up.

LTM
Tom King
****************************************************************
From Forest Blair

I also agree we should check out the Kanton engine before sifting rubble at Niku.

If the engine IS Amelia's, we still need to determine where it was found. As I've mentioned to Ric previously, I question if Bruce found the engine on Gardener (now Niku).  In the time period when he found it, we were too involved in the islands closer to Hull and Canton.  The only mission reason we may have had to go to Gardener was to ferry an Army mapping unit.  Bruce, however, doesn't recollect taking Army types to Gardener.  I am working with the National Imagery and Mapping Agency (where the Army Mapping Service was absorbed) in a search to see if celestial surveys were performed at Gardener during the period the engine was found.

The joy ride is a possibility, but riding 400 plus/minus miles in a copter just  to see Gardener when there were lush islands--one with a wrecked Korean fishing boat on the reef-- much closer doesn't make sense.  I have a couple views of the wrecked boat on 35mm slides dated Jan 71 by the way.  Am working with Air Force Personnel in an attempt to find the on-site Global (contractor) helicopter chief at Canton--Tom Lawrence, Lt Col USAF (Ret)--to see if he remembers approving any trips to Gardener during the engine find period.  Am also trying to locate a Gerald Kobelski (then an AF captain) who was in SAMTEC's R&D directorate with which we were closely working in the activation of Canton.  He may have some good info for us also.

Now IF (a big one) the engine is Amelia's, and we have found no reasons, other than a dubious joy ride, to fly to Gardener at that time,  would that not leave Sidney, Phoenix and Hull islands as very likely sites for it? Remember also that Bruce does not remember seeing remnants of the Norwich City.

From previous forum inputs, it seems I read that some people living on those islands were moved to Gardener.  If parts of Amelia's A/C had been found on one of those three islands above, might they not have been taken to Gardener when the folks were moved and be some of our artifacts today?

I realize I've but several IF's in this egram.  Hope it's not too confusing. I truly believe, however, that finding the engine would be a major help in determining where to look for Amelia and Fred.

Forest #2149
***************************************************************
From Don Jordan 2109 

Ric wrote:

> I can see that we're going to have to arrange something or we'll have people
> renting rowboats and setting off for Kanton.

Row boat HELL. . .I'm trying to find some way to tow a 3,000 fuel barge behind my 23ft Cruiser.
**************************************************************
From Bob Sherman

Tom Ruprecht wrote:

> I'm surprised that Ric has not yet said anything about the nightmare of
> personnel safety on a charter involving 200 Tighars to Kanton.

The clincher was left off.  I thought the original said, "in a 727", so I just deleted the msg. and the thought.  RC  941
***************************************************************

From Vern Klein

Quoting Ric...

>I am but the servant of the people.  I humbly suggest that we get our butts
>over to Tarawa as soon as it can be funded and arranged and then make digging
>the engine our next priority.  I put Tarawa first because that could be the
>key to Kanton.
>
>I am braced for replies.

I agree.  Tarawa is the most likely way to Kanton -- however the digging gets done.  And these other fanciful proposals ain't really gonna happen.
***************************************************************
From Ric

This discussion of priorities and possibilities has been very helpful.  Here's how we now plan to proceed:

Our first priority is a trip to Tarawa, the capital of Kiribati (the island nation of which Nikumaroro is a part) to accomplish a number of important tasks including:

- coordination with government officials about our future work on both Kanton and Niku.
- research in the national museum and library to see if we can find any more information about the bones.
- interviews with former residents of Niku to see if we can gather more anecdotal information about bones or airplane wreckage.

The timing of the Tarawa trip will depend, in large part, upon the schedule of Kiribati government officials with whom we need to meet (and, of course, upon the availability of the necessary funding).  The team for the Tarawa trip will travel by commercial airline service (such as it is).  At this time we expect to spend about a week in Tarawa.  The team will be made up of me (Ric Gillespie), Project Archaeologist Dr. Tom King, and Earhart Expedition Team members Kenton Spading, John Clauss and Russ Matthews. The team will be augmented by a few sponsor/team members whose financial contributions will fund the trip but who will also fully participate in the research.  As soon as budgets are completed I'll post the cost of being a sponsor/team member for the Tarawa trip.

Our next priority will be to excavate the dump at Kanton to see if we can find, recover, and identify the engine which we believe is buried there.  The timing and configuration of the excavation will depend, in large part, upon the outcome of the Tarawa trip.

The Niku IIII expedition is now tentatively scheduled for April 29 to June 8, 2000.  A final decision to commit to that date will need to be made by April 29, 1999 - one year prior to departure.  That commitment will be made if:

1.  Available evidence continues to suggest that further searching on Niku would be productive.
2.  Full funding for the expedition and the Voyage of Discovery educational program are assured.

So there it is - one, two, three - Tarawa, Kanton, Niku.  A logical progression.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:14:55 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: To join or not to join

This is a long quote but in case it didn't soak in...

Ric wrote (Responding to a Posting by Jim W.):

>Your comments about your willingness to join TIGHAR if we provided an
>opportunity for an adventure vacation gets right to the heart of what TIGHAR
>is about.  Many organizations, profit and non, offer chances for people to go
>to exotic places and have unique experiences.  For some of us, going
>whitewater rafting in Nepal rings hollow because it seems as pointless as,
>say, trying to circumnavigate the earth in a balloon.  Experience for the sake
>of experience.  Trying to drive around the block blindfolded is more thrilling
>and considerably cheaper.
>
>TIGHAR is not about having experiences.  TIGHAR is about education and about
>making significant additions to the fund of knowledge regarding aviation-
>related historical events through solid research and, where appropriate, field
>work.  The field work takes us to exotic places because that's where the
>unrecovered airplanes happen to be.   The fact that working in these places
>inevitably involves having unusual experiences (aka "adventures") is
>incidental but fortunate in that it attracts funding through the sale of media
>rights.
>
>The hope of going along on a romantic expedition is a poor reason for joining
>TIGHAR. Expedition participants who are primarily motivated by a desire to
>have an experience usually find that the experience they get is not what they
>had in mind.  But all TIGHAR members participate in supporting the educational
>and historical work of the organization and share the satisfaction of our
>mutual accomplishments.  It's that experience that makes it important to have
>a TIGHAR member number after your name.

And this gets very much to the reason TIGHAR is so interesting to me. It provides a REASON for doing stuff!  I've always felt that the proper function of my various employers over the years was to provide me with problems, or challenges, if you will, (ideally of a technical nature -- NOT political!) and to provide an environment in which I could operate effectively.  I've been very fortunate in that most of them did that pretty well.  It's been a hell of a lot of fun!  In part, thanks to TIGHAR, it still is!

Regarding my own recent post about going to Kanton... It's an exotic sort of place and, I'm sure, a damned uncomfortable place!  I would never go to such a place or, for that matter, a lot of places people DO flock to, without a purpose for going there.  It's the purpose -- the goal -- that makes it work.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:29:59 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Crystal concerns

I don't see that the accuracy of AE's crystal controlled transmitter frequencies had anything to do with the communication problems during the flight to Howland. The Itasca had certainly found her signal, whether exactly on frequency or not. Any problems understanding what she said were due to other things, not being off frequency.  The problem was with her receiving the Itasca's transmissions.  And I think she would have found them even if they were a bit off frequency.  She just wasn't hearing anything at all -- until she went to the loop and 7500 kc.  Might she have heard the Itasca on 3105 kc if she had been switched to the loop? It appears she didn't try that but went to 6210 kc. And probably switched off the loop.

**************************************************************

From Ric

I have long suspected that that's exactly what happened.  She had it in her head that the loop was only for DFing.  When she decided to try to get a bearing on Itasca she asked them to send a "long count" on 7500 (not knowing that they had no voice capability on that frequency).  She then switched to the loop and tuned the receiver to 7500.  Bang.  She gets the repeated letter A (dit-dah, dit-dah, dit-dah) which she recognizes as the letter Itasca is supposed to send.  She knows that she is at last hearing Itasca and probably suspects that they have been hearing her.  She tries to get a minimum but can't.  She says so and asks them to reply on 3105, at which point she almost certainly switches off the loop and back on to the antenna that is not working.  Had she stayed on the loop, as close as she was at that time, I'll betcha she would have heard Itasca's voice reply on 3105.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:32:39 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Priorities

I agree with Mike and Tom.  The engine must be found, or we will have speculation for ever.  The way stories get started, in 5 years the story will be "Earhart engine found" not "may have been found"!  Also, if someone does go back to Canton to organize a dig I think it should be someone who has been there.  This way they will know of the hardships and what-not.

Maybe Bruce would like to go. . . he started this whole thing.  Just kidding Bruce!!!  But I do think he would be the best candidate, if he could get the time off from work and family.

Though I whole heartedly support TIGHAR, and will continue to do so. . .I just don't think that plane was ever on Niku.  That doesn't mean I think Niku should be forgotten.  Maybe it was. . .I don't know.  But I do know where this is an engine of her size and type that was found on some other island.

The people of Canton get supplied some how.  Let's find out how and what the schedule is, then maybe send one or two people there on a fact finding mission.  Kick some rocks. . .talk to some people. . .get a little sweaty.

Sorry for the soap box. . .I just think the engine should be a priority.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:57:07 EDT
From:         Ann Hinrica
Subject:      Camp site

I'm curious...the fire site where the label fragment was found...is it in a location that would seem to be a favorable spot for a camp site? Would someone come upon it (the location) and think "this is a perfect spot to rest for awhile"? Are there natural features which would make it more inviting than somewhere else in the vicinity? I've also been wondering about the grave that turned out to be that of an infant? Was this from post AE disappearance? I recall from one of my anthropology cultures classes, long ago, that a certain Pacific Island people would always bury their dead next to or very close to another grave so that the departed would have someone to lead them to the next world. Perhaps that little grave is more than what it appears to be. Just speculating...
LTM Ann 2101
***************************************************************

From Ric

Good questions, Ann.  The most pleasant places to hang out on Niku are on the lagoon shore along the southwestern side of the island because you get the prevailing breeze coming across the lagoon.  The campfire/shoe site is about 50 meters inland form just such a location.  Yes, it would be one of the best places on the island.

The "coincidence" of the baby grave and the campfire/shoe site being in virtually the same spot has always bothered me.  The grave is a very typical Gilbertese grave bordered by coral slabs with tiny sea shells from the lagoon shore covering the grave itself.  It is not dissimilar to other graves up in the village. We have assumed that the grave dates from the colonial period (1939-1963) but we have no proof of that. So far, no former-resident of Nikumaroro we've interviewed has had any recollection of a baby being buried way down there on Aukaraime. Normally the Gilbertese bury their dead on family land but whether this area was ever part of any family's land is not clear from records available to us.

The child was very small, perhaps even stillborn.  We've speculated that if, for some reason, it was unacceptable for the child to be buried on family land up in the village, the burial site may have been selected based upon the previous use of this same area for non-family burial.  We already know from the Gallagher papers that the skull of the castaway was initially buried by the workers who found it.  That may have been enough to establish this part of the island as the "potters field."  Or perhaps other burials were made there that we don't know about.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:06:40 EDT
From:         Dick Pingrey
Subject:      Technology for Kanton

It would appear that ground penetrating radar is not suitable for locating the buried engine in the Kanton dump.  Would a special design type of metal detector that can measure the relative size of buried large iron object be a possibility?  It seem to me that it would be a major help to have some ideal where to dig in the dump or at least the places with the greatest potential.  This would appear to be especially important if the digging is to be done by hand.  Again, I have no experience in this area of technology so I am simply asking the question.

Dick Pingrey 908C
***************************************************************

From Ric

Discriminating size would not be much help.  There are lots of chunks of stuff there that are roughly the same size as the engine.  Shape would be nice to see, but the only thing I know of that tells you that is GPR.  Discriminating the TYPE of metal could be useful.  The junk in the dump is mostly ferrous. There are also quite a few aluminum components from various airplanes, but the case of the 1340 is a considerable mass of aluminum.  It's probably worth asking our friends at White's Electronics (who supply us with metal detectors) if they have or could build something that would help us zero-in on such an object.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:32:33 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      Re: Crystal concerns

Ric and Vern,

Both of you have hit the nail right on the head!

LTM
Bob
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:47:06 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      Re: What to do next.

I agree with Ric; Tarawa first, Kanton second.  Then play it by ear from there.

LTM,

Bob

**************************************************************

From Don Jordan

Spins my prop!

***************************************************************
From Jim Tierney

Ric---
Sounds like a good LOGICAL, carefully crafted plan........
Jim Tierney

**************************************************************

From Jerry Hamilton

I think making the Kanton engine the priority over further Niku exploration is a big mistake. This strategy works ONLY under the conditions that the motor can be found, excavated, and unequivocally proven to be AE's (read serial numbers, which we absolutely must have before going for it) . All on one trip to Kanton. And even then all it buys for us is more funding - maybe. Under the best scenario, it provides no more additional direction for helping us find AE/FN than we already have.

Our strongest evidence at this point is the shoe parts, not an engine that doesn't yet exist. Two separate shoe discoveries (one from a totally independent source) from the same general location on the same island. Hard evidence that we can hold in our hand. If we haven't already found the camp site of an American woman from the 1930's on Niku, we are damn close. And there is the whole NE corner with the possibility of airplane parts (the evidence for this is at least as strong as the evidence for the Kanton motor).

I, too, am personally very intrigued about the possibilities of the Kanton engine. It would really be exciting if we could get it and it was the real deal. But exciting is not progress and it could very well be a fool's gold expedition.

Why waste time and money just to get one more artifact that only proves the Lockheed ended up somewhere near land? We already have sufficient evidence of that fact. TWO SHOES IN HAND ARE WORTH A POSSIBLE ENGINE IN A DUMP. Not to mention a sextant box and bones. Let's use our limited resources to stay on the difficult, main trail - not chase pretty looking rainbows.

Blue skies, -jerry
**************************************************************

From Ric

As everyone by now knows, I tend to see this thing much as Jerry does.  But I also know that taking the get-the-funding-first-and-do-it-right approach to Niku IIII means that it will be at least a couple of years before the BIG EXPEDITION.  In the meantime, it is essential that we keep and increase the public's interest in our work.  Our principal avenue to the public is via the media and it's sad but true that the media are less interested in academic progress in the investigation (which is, after all, what will really solve the mystery) than in good theater.  Digging the engine is legitimate field work we can do which, whatever its outcome, will keep us in the public eye while we prepare for Niku IIII.

If it was a choice between doing Kanton or Niku I'd go for Niku, but I think the way to see Kanton is as stepping stone to Niku.  Whether it turns out to be a big discovery or not, it can be made part of the Voyage of Discovery educational program and will have value beyond its usefulness as a media event.  There is also the point that if we can combine the dump excavation with some environmental clean-up work on Kanton that will be GOOD THING. Anything we can do to help live people while we try to find out what happened to dead ones is worth doing.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:25:05 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Research Needed

Here's a research task upon which I'd like to unleash the awesome power of the forum.

In 1940, on a remote Pacific island, a minor British official found human remains which he suspected were those of Amelia Earhart.  He reported the discovery to his superiors at the Western Pacific High Commission in Fiji. The Secretary of the High Commission directed that the bones and the artifacts found with them be sent to Fiji and ordered the discovering official to consider the matter "strictly secret."  In April of 1941 the bones were the subject of a fairly detailed examination by the principal of the Central Medical School in Suva, Fiji.  His opinion was that the bones were those of a man and, by implication, not those of Amelia Earhart.

On the surface, it would appear that the discovery of the bones got the British authorities all excited until it became apparent that the castaway who had died on the island was not Amelia Earhart.  Except - the last piece of official correspondence we have on this matter is an inquiry from the Secretary and a response from the official about the sextant box found with the bones.  The correspondence is dated some 25 days after the medical report, so it's clear that interest in the matter did not end with that report.  Soon afterward, the official was ordered to return to Fiji.  About three months later he returned to the island in the company of a colonial doctor who happened to be a specialist in forensic medicine.  Upon arrival at the island the official died of a ruptured appendix.

Perhaps the recall to Fiji and the return with the doctor had nothing to do with the whole bone incident, but the odd thing is that the veil of secrecy that was put on the whole affair early on was apparently never lifted. Reading the official records of the Western Pacific High Commission, including the published diary of the High Commissioner, and talking to other people who were officials in the colonial administration, you would never know that anything like this had ever happened.  Why did nobody later talk about it? It's a great little story about mysterious bones found on a desert island, but the examining doctor's daughter never heard her father (who was known as quite a story-teller) mention it.  And the forensic specialist who accompanied the discovering official back to the island never mentioned it to other colonial officials.   The correspondence that proves that the whole business did happen seems to have survived totally by accident and was discovered last year in the archive in Tarawa by an even stranger coincidence.  Not to put too dramatic a face on it, but it would seem that we have come across information that the officialdom of the time really intended to keep secret.  We want to know the answers to two questions:

1.  Why was the possible discovery of Earhart's remains declared "strictly secret"?  That would seem to be a purely political decision and to try to understand why it was made we need to get a firm handle on the political environment.   It's October of 1940 when the British authorities first become aware of the discovery.  It's April 1941 by the time the bones actually arrive in Fiji and are examined.  During this period Britain stands, back to the wall,  alone against Nazi Germany.  The U.S. is moving further and further into an alliance, but is not yet in the war.  Clearly, the discovery of the remains of Amelia Earhart would be of great interest to the people of the United States.  Let's refresh our memories about just what was happening between the U.S. and Great Britain during this time period.  Hit the books gang.

2.  Did the British investigation of the identity of the castaway(s) end in April of 1941?  Or was more discovered and by whom?  Maybe the undiscovered government files about Amelia Earhart everybody likes to speculate about are in London, not Washington.  Considerable work has already been done at the Public Records Office at Kew, but the files of the Western Pacific High Commission in Milton Keynes (about 50 miles NW of London) are where the doctor's report turned up.  Those files are scheduled to be shipped to "the Pacific" (probably Fiji) sometime next year.  That move will probably make them inaccessible for research for some time due to packing, shipping, re- cataloging, etc., so we would very much have a knowledgeable TIGHAR researcher look at them before then.   Simon?  Is this something you could look into?

Love to mother,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:25:15 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Stacked fires

Reuse of fire pits is a pretty common phenomenon, doubtless for all kinds of good reasons (leftover fuel lying around, if somebody else did it it must be a good place to do it, etc. etc.), and in some cases can be distinguished archeologically.  But in the Aukaraime case, there was sure no evidence of it, and the whole feature is so shallow and basically ephemeral that I have trouble imagining what such evidence would even look like.

The other problem with the idea of a post-mid-70s fire (assuming an age no earlier than this for the label) landing on the same spot as a 1937 fire is that the whole area was cleared for cocos in '40-41, which must have involved pretty severe surface disturbance.  Granted that they weren't doing it with machines; it would still involve a lot of chopping, digging, and burning to get all those bukas out of there.  And the ground surface is so active biologically that it's unusual for organic material to last very long at all. It's certainly not impossible that the remains of a fire could survive from '37, but it would be a pretty lucky happenstance.  As long as we assumed the label to be of that date, this happenstance seemed a likely one.  Without the label I'd say it's a different ball game.  So, then, how do we get some old shoes associated with a new fire?????

LTM
TK

***************************************************************

From Ric

I'm having a lot of trouble with this fire dating from the modern era.  I just can't construct a reasonable scenario that puts all the things we found where we found them.  That means either:

1.  My imagination is not up to the task.
- or -
2.  Some of the things we found are not what we think they are.
- or -
3.  The fire is not modern.

I'm gonna wait until we see what McCrone Associates says about the label fragment before I tax my tiny brain further on this.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:32:21 EDT
From:         Dick Pingrey
Subject:      The Camel

To Ric and the Forum members,

Concerning Chester Baird's suggestions on going to Kanton to recover the engine, I would suggest we remember that all organizations need leaders that make the decisions and set priorities.  All of the facts need to be considered and not just what seems popular with the membership.  Perhaps going to Kanton first is the best plan but the leadership (Ric in the case of TIGHAR) needs to make that educated decision.  He has all the data available including perhaps the most important consideration, the financial situation, to evaluate and make the decisions.  I would remind the group that a camel is a horse designed by a committee and the future direction of TIGHAR could be just as weird if our direction is dictated by group interest rather than by sound research reasoning.

Dick Pingrey 908C
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:43:11 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Another mystery

Here's another one to chew on.

USS Swan, the little seaplane tender that was standing by halfway between Howland and Hawaii to help Earhart on that leg of the flight, was mobilized to help search the Gilbert islands during the search for the lost flight.  Like everybody else, they found nothing.  Ron Dawson 2126 recently sent me copies of the deck log of the Swan from a later period which raise an interesting question.

In November of 1942, Swan made a brief, unscheduled, and perhaps puzzling stop at Gardner Island.  Here's the story told by the logs:

On October 31, 1942 Swan departed Pearl Harbor "in accordance with Compatwing 2 secret despatch 292020." Her mission was to transport 36 enlisted men under the command of Ensign George Pittman to Canton Island.  After an uneventful trip she arrived at Canton on the morning of November 7th and by noon had disembarked her passengers.  At 2008 that night she was underway again "in accordance with orders Cincpac secret despatch 072259 of November 1942."

The log entry for the next morning, November 8, 1942, says she is "Steaming singly enroute Canton Island to Suva, Fiji Islands" but at 1850 that evening she is "lying to off Gardner Island."  There is no notation that anyone went ashore or that anyone came aboard.  At 2135 she "took departure for Suva."

On the morning of 13 November Swan arrives at Suva having sighted other islands enroute but making no stops.  By 0848 she is moored to King's Wharf. She remains there while she refuels and on November 15th at 1500 "Pursuant to verbal orders Port Director Suva, Mr. Michael Lee, radio telegraphist reported on board for transportation."  At 0610 the next morning Swan was underway "in accordance with orders Cincpac secret despatch 072259" (the same orders under which she sailed from Canton) and "steaming singly enroute Suva, Fiji Islands to Funafuti, Ellice Islands."

Another uneventful passage brought her to Funafuti where she anchored in the lagoon at 2005 on November 19th.  At 1830 the next evening the ship, still "in accordance with orders Cincpac secret despatch 072259" departs Funafuti.  This time the logged destination is Gardner Island.

Gardner is reached early on the morning of 23 November 1942.  At 0830 "Pursuant to the verbal orders of the Resident Representative of the High Commissioner of the Western Pacific. B. Epia (the name is not clear) native policeman reported on board for transportation."  The ship immediately got underway and headed for Canton.

Swan arrived at Canton at 1040 the next morning and "Mr. Michael Lee, radio telegraphist, left the ship, transportation completed."  At 1610 "Pursuant to verbal orders Port Director, Suva, Fiji Islands - Mr. D.C.I. Wernam - acting administrative officer Phoenix Islands - Mr. R. M. Major, cadet officer - and three natives, reported on board for transportation."  At 1614 Swan was underway, destination Sydney island.

At 0625 the next morning, 25 November, Swan anchored off Sydney.  At 2001 that evening the ship was once more underway "in accordance with verbal orders - Commanding Officer."  For the next two days, until the evening of the 27th, Swan just wandered around offshore in the vicinity of Sydney and then, at 1905, departed for Hull Island.  By 0800 the next morning, the 28th, she was lying to off Hull.

Swan stayed at Hull until the evening of the 29th and at 1845 got underway for Gardner where she arrived at 1032 the next morning, the 30th.  However, it wasn't until 0800 the following morning that "Epia. B. native policeman, left the ship, transportation completed." and it's not until 1500 on December 2 that Wernam, major and the three natives are logged off the ship, "transportation completed."

At this point the Swan's logs really clam up and most of the entries simply say "no remarks" except for occasional notations that the clocks have been changed, indicating that the ship is enroute to somewhere.

Several questions come to mind.

1.  Was the initial stop at Gardner on November 8th directed by "Cincpac secret despatch 072259"?  If not, why on earth did Swan stop there? 072259 appears to cover the voyage from Canton, to Gardner, to Suva, to Funafuti, to Gardner. It's not clear whether the voyage from Gardner to Canton is still part of 072259.


2.  Why did Swan stop at Funafuti enroute from Suva back to Canton?

3.  Why did Swan pick up the native policeman at Gardner, take him to Canton, and bring him back to Gardner (medical attention?)

4.  How long did Wernam and company remain on Gardner after Swan dropped them off "transportation completed."

Fascinating stuff.

Love to mother,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:19:02 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Re: Research Needed

Our man on the ground in England, Simon Ellwood, has generously agreed to help us ferret out whatever further clues about the bones may be lurking in the archives of the Western Pacific High Commission.  Thanks Simon.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:00:03 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Another Mystery

Wartime bridge logs are inscrutable, as they were not intended to provide nformation to the enemy if they fell into enemy hands.  Most war-time ship orders were secret (as were pre-war orders, but not quite so bureaucratic in nature).  This is an interesting trip for the SWAN; perhaps it was to visit the islands because the British could not do so, lacking ship facilities?  The visit could just be courtesy, to see if there was anything amiss, or urgent medical needs?  Who knows?

***************************************************************
From Ron Dawson

Dunno if there's any connection, but 21 Oct42 is when Eddie Rickenbacker departed Hickam on a B-17 enroute McArthur's HQ in Sou Pac, then was lost before first stop at Canton. (see current issue of Air and Space). Then was found by an OS2U out of Funafuti about 12 Nov, I believe.

Smooth Sailing,
Ron Dawson 2126
**************************************************************

From Ric

Okay, try this on (just a theory, okay?).

Swan leaves Hawaii on October 31 on a routine mission to take a bunch of guys down to Canton.  Rickenbacker has been missing for 10 days so they've probably been told to keep an eye out for him.

Meanwhile, at Canton, somebody thinks to wonder whether the B-17 may have overshot Canton and ended up on another island of the Phoenix Group.  They get on the radio and query the Gilbertese settlements on Sydney, Hull and Gardner about the missing plane.  The responses from Sydney and Hull are negative but the radio operator on Gardner says something like, "Yes, there's a wrecked airplane here but I don't think it's the one you're looking for."

Swan gets to Canton on November 7 and gets orders from Cincpac saying who-knows-what, but whether it is part of the secret despatch or something much less formal, Swan is asked to stop at Gardner on the way to Suva and check out this wrecked airplane story just in case.  It's probably not Rickenbacker's B-17 but even if it's some Japanese patrol plane that went down it would be good to know about it.

Swan stops at Gardner the next day and the locals show them the old wreckage over on Nutiran.  As expected, it's not the B-17.  Don't know what it is. Awfully beat up.  No identifying marks (outer wing sections and the tail surfaces where the registration numbers were are gone).  False alarm.

This could explain how, as we heard from Tapania on Funafuti, "Some white people came once in a government boat.  They were taken in canoes to here (the Nutiran shore) to take pictures of the airplane parts."  This could be the origin of the Wreck Photo.  And, best of all, it would explain why the whole affair did not result in the discovery of what happened to Amelia Earhart. Wrong plane. Wrong famous missing aviator.  A few days later Rickenbacker is found.  Big story, big relief.  The old wreck on Gardner is quickly forgotten.

Just a theory, but I kind of like it.  I've always felt that Tapania's volunteered statement about the white men in the government boat was true, but it has been hard to imagine how that could have happened and the Earhart mystery not be solved.

There are a couple of problems and questions.

The Wreck Photo was obviously taken in broad daylight when the sun was high in the sky, but Swan made its first call at Gardner in the evening.  The photo could not have been taken then.  Swan stopped at Gardner on the way back to Canton on the 23rd but was there first thing in the morning and only long enough to pick up the "native policeman."  It's not likely that the photo was taken then.  But the  ship was at Gardner for several days when it returned with Wernam, Majors and the three natives and the policeman.  Plenty of opportunity for somebody to snap a picture.

This theory also makes the assumption that there was radio communication between Gardner and Canton.  We know that the wireless station was operational in 1941 but I don't think we know for sure that it was still working in 1942.

I know that the Rickenbacker incident has been written about in detail.  I wonder if by any chance there is reference to inquiries being made in the Phoenix Islands?  I wonder who was aboard Swan on that trip and whether any of those guys are still around?  This could be just one more wild goose chase or it could be part of our puzzle.  Let's dig into it a bit and see how it smells.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:14:59 EDT
From:         Jim W.
Subject:      Kanton trip

Ric, Vern, et al

The main point of my message of willingness to take a trip to look for the Canton engine was not an issue of whether to join or not to join TIGHAR, or "if we provided an opportunity for an adventure vacation" or not.  To this point I just haven't joined the group, but does it mean I can't be interested in the workings of this forum or TIGHAR?  You had speculated reservations about the cost and the number of people who may be interested.  I feel HAG's idea was to do this trip for research and a vacation.  I expressed support for an independent trip, or hopefully a TIGHAR endorsed one, to look for the engine, membership or not.  It would simply be a trip with a purpose, and a vacation planned with it.  It is not unusual for people to chose a vacation where they have never been before with acceptance of all the risks involved. Many people choose to excavate the Mayan ruins or dig for dinosaur bones and call it a vacation, all the while contributing to the knowledge we all share. To those people it is much more fun than sitting poolside at a resort or swatting mosquitos in Yellowstone.  And a trip is being planned by TIGHAR that is "augmented by a few sponsor/team members whose financial contributions will fund the trip but who will also fully participate in the research".  Exactly.

Thus, if it is a matter of lack of funds for TIGHAR to do a trip to Canton, Tarawa or Niku then HAG and others might have another possible source for an expedition.    It would be nice to have the big corporate sponsorship but it apparently has not materialized to date, and this is another approach.  We should at least listen to and encourage this type of expensive research, just as independent research in less expensive environments is encouraged.  If a person were to take a trip to Canton independently and did the digging it doesn't negate the reason for their trip.  But it certainly would be better for the excavation to proceed with guidance and blessing from TIGHAR.

There is interest for such an endeavor from Tom K., who seems would be one of the best of the group to go, HAG, Mike R., Don J., Jerry E., Simon, Vern, Chester B., ... have all expressed an interest of some sort or another.  The points brought up by the forum members are just the type of ideas and insights that need to be encouraged for understanding the feasibility of such a trip. It sure would be nice if the logistics for HAG's idea worked out in some form, and that is an exploration that is worth looking into just as some of the above mentioned persons have already done.

Jim W.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Let's look at the facts and the numbers.  There is, at this time, no commercial air service to Kanton.  There is also no approved fuel available at Kanton. So, getting there by air means chartering an airplane that is capable of flying to Kanton from someplace where there is fuel- and back- unrefueled. The closest places with fuel are:

Hawaii - ca 2,000 miles
Kiritimati (Christmas Island) - ca 1,000 miles
American Samoa - ca 700 miles
Fiji - ca 1,200 miles

American Samoa (Pago Pago) is closest.  What kind of airplanes are already in Samoa with a 1400 mile range plus reserves?  None.  So you would have to ferry an airplane in from someplace else.  You want to keep the price down so you want lots of seats - 200 was mentioned.  Let's say you could find such an airplane for hire in Hawaii (Hawaiian Air flies Honolulu to Pago Pago with a DC-8).  You could embark at Honolulu, have the airplane drop the gang off at Kanton and continue on down to Pago to refuel.  Now what?  Is the airplane going to wait on the ground in Pago for several days while you do your dig? Wait time on big airplanes runs many hundreds of dollars AN HOUR.  Or is it going to deadhead back to Hawaii (on your nickel) and then do the same trip a week later to pick you up and bring you back to Hawaii?  Any way you slice it, an educated guess is that such a charter would likely run something over $400,000.  Divided by 200 seats gives you a ticket price of $2,000 plus whatever it costs you to get to and from Hawaii.

We still haven't talked about what 200 people are going to do for food, water and shelter on an island that has zero support facilities.  You gonna drink the local water?  Uh uh.  Even if you wanted to, there just isn't enough there.  Let's see - how much water are 200 people going to need if they're doing heavy physical labor on a tropical island?  Two gallons a day is about right.  How many days would it take 200 workers to excavate the dump?  Let's be optimistic and say three.  Now, how are gonna come up with 1200 gallons of water?  You could either bring it with you (in what? 240 five gallon cans?) or set up a reverse osmosis system down by the lagoon (an expensive, complex piece of technology that must work or you're in big trouble).  For food you could bring cases and cases of MRE's.  For shelter you could bring several big tents or everybody could bring their own.

Here's an awkward detail.  Where do you camp?  The dump is only about a quarter mile off the end of the runway so you could unload the airplane and set up camp right there, but it's a hot barren place and about two miles from "civilization."   Your option is a two mile walking commute each way.

I wonder belabor this further than I already have, but the point is - there have got to be better ways to dig this engine.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:17:27 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Burial site

I think there's another good way to account for the baby burial on Aukaraime. In the late '40s, when the government tried to get the colony going after its wartime doldrums, there was a basic change in approach from one that featured more or less collective work on what amounted to a government plantation, to traditional family ownership of plots.  The land was parcelled up and made available to those families that elected to stay.  My guess (and admittedly it's only that) is that the family that got the plot that includes the grave site suffered the loss of an infant, perhaps a stillbirth, and buried the kid on the land they'd taken charge of, in anticipation that it would be their land forever and receive the bodies of generations to come.  But the colony didn't last long enough to allow this expectation to come to fruition, and the baby's body, like all the others, was left to return to nature when the colonists departed.

Tom King
Project Archeologist
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:22:25 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: what to do next

The other reason not to jump at Niku too soon (as I, too, am real tempted to do) is that there are a number of non-field, relatively cheap, things to do first that may help us narrow our search.  The shoes are a good case in point. OK, we've got Gallagher's account of shoes; we've got Kilts' account of shoes; we've got shoes (all God's chil'n got...) but particularly if the can label is recent, we aren't all necessarily talking about the same shoes, in the same place.  There may well be documents that will help us nail down the location of Gallagher's find with greater precision -- notes by Macpherson, for example, or personal letters home by Gallagher, or intelligence reports in obscure British archives, or some record by the New Zealanders, or something we have no idea of at all.  Before we commit the time and treasure necessary for another full-scale assault on Niku, we ought to do every piece of background research that any of us can think of that might help us narrow the search area.  That end of the island's a big place.

Tom King
Project Archeologist
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:41:03 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Kanton Engine

If we dig the Kanton engine, there are some things to think  about first.  If by chance we find it in the dump.  We are going to have to know where the serial numbers are, and then be able to get at them.  We will have to take along tools to remove very old, dirty bolts.  Won't be able to go back to the shop for a tool.  Bruce would probably know all about how to do that.

Also, I would just like to say one more time.  I am convinced that engine was not found on Niku.  Therefore, if it is AE's we must find out what island it was on.  Find that, and you will have a matched pair.

Again, I have a differing opinion from that of most others.  As I recall there are three reasons why the bones are so enticing.

 One,  they were that of a male. . .so why was there parts of a women's shoe found?

Two, the sextant box. . .No other gear was found.  If I were gathering gear for survival from a sinking, or grounded airplane, I don't think I would bring along a sextant to remind me of where I was.  Beside the sextant won't do any good by itself.  You need the maps or charts, the plotters, the book and a chronometer that worked and wasn't water soaked.

Three, the mentioning in the  Tarawa telegrams that the bones might be that of AE.  Well, we already know there weren't.   Our only hope is that they were Fred's.

The label had a Barcode on it!  The aluminum didn't match the Electra! We don't know what the cable is!  Some locals said they saw some airplane parts on the island.  Locals on Saipan said they saw the Electra. That's even better!

I just don't think that airplane or AE was ever on Niku. (I'm covering my head for the lightning strike)

I think that engine is the hottest item to come along in years.  It may not be hers.  We have to find out.  She may have landed on Niku. . .we don't know.  But, if the engine is hers and it wasn't found on Niku, what's the harm in moving the search to an island to the north or east? I do think it is one of them.  Just not Niku.

Maybe one more search of Niku would do the trick. To prove yes or no. I'd go if I could, even though I don't believe in it.  I can only express my opinion.   I support Ric and I support TIGHAR. . .proudly!  I just don't agree.
***************************************************************

From Ric

Let me clarify something.  We would attempt no disassembly of an engine in the field.  If we were to find an engine, or whatever was left of one, which appeared to be an R1340 we would recover it and conserve it pending examination, photography and possible disassembly under controlled conditions with hot and cold running experts present.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:44:26 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Re: What to do next

Ric wrote:

> Whether it turns out to
>be a big discovery or not, it can be made part of the Voyage of Discovery
>educational program and will have value beyond its usefulness as a media
>event.  There is also the point that if we can combine the dump excavation
>with some environmental clean-up work on Kanton that will be GOOD THING.
>Anything we can do to help live people while we try to find out what happened
>to dead ones is worth doing.

Ric, all this time I thought you were a benevolent pirate... now I see that you are simply benevolent. You're a good man, Gunga Din!

Keep spinnin' that Mother-Lovin' prop!

Tom #2179

****************************************************************

From Ric

(blush)
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:26:20 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Heel dating

While waiting for word on the label fragment and skull measurement, etc., I thought I'd chew on something else a bit.  Something like an old rubber heel.

That Cat's Paw heel is certainly one of the strongest bits of evidence that someone, an American and probably a woman, may have left a shoe on Gardner Island in the mid- to late-1930s.

How confident are you in the dating of that heel by Cat's Paw?  Is there something distinctive about it that enables them to say it was manufactured in the mid-1930s rather than at some later time?

***************************************************************

From Ric

On February 18, 1992 I received a letter signed by William R. Foshage, Jr. and Robert L. Oginz of the Biltrite Corporation (which now owns Cat's Paw) .  The text follows:

Dear Ric,

With reference to the Amelia Earhart items that you forwarded to me on January 31, in a meeting in our Ripley, Mississippi factory and another meeting in our Waltham office, Mr. Robert Oginz, Mr. James Mooney and I came up with the facts on the attached sheets.

We hope this is self-explanatory and there's no question that the heel is a Cat's Paw heel but since the production dates are missing, we cannot pinpoint it to an exact year.  Because of type of molds, we'd say it was produced somewhere in the mid-thirties.

We've listed all details we could draw from the samples.  If, after you go through the facts, Mr. Oginz or I can be of any further assistance, please call us.

We feel quite thrilled to be participating in such an interesting project.
*****************

The attached sheets list the various observations made about the artifacts they examined.  They were able to detect more numbers and code markings from the heel than we had seen because they knew what they were looking for.  The point of the meeting at the Mississippi plant was that they still had an extensive collection of old heel molds there.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:37:26 EDT
From:         HAG
Subject:      Re: Stacked fires

Tom King wrote:

> It's certainly not impossible that the remains of a fire could survive from
>  "37, but it would be a pretty lucky happenstance.  As long as we assumed the
>  label to be of that date, this happenstance seemed a likely one.  Without the
>  label I'd say it's a different ball game.  So, then, how do we get some old
>  shoes associated with a new fire?????

Maybe someone was burning garbage?   HAG. #2201

***************************************************************

From Ric

It's certainly possible that the shoes were found nearby, considered to be worthless, and intentionally put in the fire.  Maybe we only found the rubber sole and heel of one shoe because the other shoe burned up completely.  Then there's the issue of the other heel of a different type found a few meters away.  Perhaps we didn't find a sole to go with that heel because it was a leather sole which  rotted away.  So where's the fourth sole?  Did that burn up too?  We're also missing a whole bunch of brass shoelace eyelets.  We only found one.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:49:19 EDT
From:         Youngquist
Subject:      Re: GPR

It's probably a good thing its not suitable (GP radar); it would cost anywhere from $20-50K.

**************************************************************

From Ric

At least in the past we've had pretty good luck getting technology donated.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:05:47 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Another mystery

Ref: Ric's "mystery theory".

Sounds plausible in the main, but don't forget that AE/FN disappeared only five years prior to this - and VERY close to this spot in the Pacific. I find it difficult to believe that these officials came ashore, saw the wreckage, eliminated the B-17 because what they were looking at was clearly too small and probably a twin (assuming the wreck photo is valid here) and NO-ONE thought of the celebrated AE/FN disappearance a few years earlier.

To add another twist <g> to the conspiracy aspect, maybe Ric's theory is correct except that on finding the wreck in the photo, they DID i.d. it as AE/FN's  L10E - but it's being kept secret to cover up the ineffectual and botched search five years earlier. Or some other reason. Pretty feeble I know.

LTM
Simon

***************************************************************

From Ric

There's a saying that goes, "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by inattention."

John Mims, the PBY pilot who saw the natives on Gardner using an airplane control cable as a fishing line leader in 1944, briefly considered that it might have come from Earhart's airplane but dismissed the idea when he recalled that she had disappeared "someplace way up around Howland."  When Floyd Kilts was on Gardner in 1946 he apparently had a keen awareness that Earhart might have reached there, but he was a man in his mid-50s at that time and had been 45 in 1937. The sailors aboard the Swan, including possibly the officers, were probably in their late teens and early twenties.  Five years is a long time when you're twenty one.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:56:24 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Kanton engine

We've probably covered such an obvious angle on the Kanton trip costing - I just haven't see it so here goes:-

Surely a ship (even at $5000 a day) is a much cheaper option than a C130 or 727, and would probably have a greater capacity for both the backhoe and other cargo etc. AND MORE paying passengers, together with all that water & supplies you mentioned, Ric.

I make Fiji-Kanton a little over 1000 miles, and even Hawaii-Kanton is "only" about 2000 miles. Even if it took a week at sea each way plus the expected 3 days on Kanton, that still comes to under $100K for the ship.

Twenty people at $5K each ?

Simon  #2120

***************************************************************

From Ric

It's not a matter of economics.  The reason we don't put expeditions together this way is that you can't get anything done.  People who have paid for an adventure/vacation are not a team.  You never know how someone is going to react under stress until you've seen them under stress and when an expedition goes bad because of personality conflicts it is disastrous.  Selection of the team is the most important part of putting together an expedition.  On the Kanton Mission this past March we took along a few sponsor/team members, but every one of them was someone we had known and worked with for a long time. And that was only a three day trip.
========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:08:08 EDT
From:         Mary Youngquist
Subject:      Re: GPR

Since I new to the forum I was unaware of that (any many other things I'm sure.)  Let me know if you need someone to go beggin'.  I don't mind doing that kind of thing.  I'm humble.

Mary

**************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Mary.  We prefer to think of it as giving the contributor an opportunity to help us make history.

Gotta get ya to join TIGHAR first though.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:35:06 EDT
From:         Dave Bush
Subject:      Re: another mystery

Well, we could probably clear up a lot of this confusion with a little snooping into the official files.  Did the Swan have an official photographer aboard?

(Ric:  Dunno)

Do we have a list of crewmembers who were aboard and their current whereabouts?

(All we have at his point are the deck logs)

Can we contact those crewmembers or their survivors to see if they have any photos/negatives of the island - perhaps the original "wreck" photo?

(Sure, if we can find out who they are.)

Was the photo an official photo sent back to HQ for possible ID at that level?

(Dunno)

Where did the Swan go after it left Canton and Gardner?

(After Swan leaves Gardner the log stops providing specifics about where the ship is and where it's going.)

Why was Rickenbacker in the Pacific in a B-17 and why did it crash?

(I don't recall but I'm sure that the information is well known.  A B-17 in the Pacific sounds odd to 12 O'Clock High fans, but early in the war they were not uncommon out there.)

Is that aircraft a candidate for our recovery efforts, too?

(No.  It sank at sea.)

Are there any facilities where recovered artifacts might have been stored by our government?

(That's what the Smithsonian is for, but only important historical properties. Raiders of the Lost Ark is fiction.)

Did any artifacts leave the island in the possession of individual sailors?

(Who knows?)

This could be a gold mine of information, and we might not even have to lift our little fannies from in front of our glowing screens to come up with a lot of this info.  Is there a reunion group for the Swan or the Navy group it was a part of?

(Certainly possible.)

Where do we go about finding this type of info?

(suggestions from the Forum?)

Love To Mother,
Dave Bush
#2200
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:43:52 EDT
From:         Bruce Yoho
Subject:      Kanton engine

I have been reading the postings far too long and so will attempt to add my two cents worth.

The Canton Engine:

When and if the engine is ever re-found I will be able to Identify it as the engine I had brought from another Island and had in my possession for a period of time while employed at Canton.

I will attest that if the engine could be disassembled in the field I would have done so and its value would have been lost for ever.  It will take a laboratory to disassemble this engine. You cannot turn one bolt with conventional tools. ( I did not disassemble any part of this engine before loosing interest in it and placing it at the dump site) There was question, as to if, I would be willing to go look for the engine again.  I would be there in a heart beat if I had the resources to do the trip.  On our last trip I was very occupied with locating the dump as the terrain had changed considerably from when I was previously there.  There was almost non existent vegetation in 1970.  In 1998 I could not believe the vegetation that had grown and covered everything.

Yes, I will be going if invited to do so by Tighar.  If I am not invited I will be asking why.
***************************************************************
From Ric

It's good that you're willing to come along quietly.  It's so much easier than the other way.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:03:56 EDT
From:         Craig Fuller
Subject:      Re: What to do next

Shouldn't more research be done to track down the crank shaft serial numbers of Earhart's engines before launching the trip to Canton? Wouldn't it be just great if we had an engine with serial numbers, but no way to track them. If we find it, and it is a 1340, it is most likely Earhart's since other aircraft in the area with that engine are slim to none, but without a serial number match our critics would be no more in belief. Regardless of what island it came from Don. 
Craig Fuller
Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
****************************************************************

From Ric

My thoughts:
Yes, it wouldn't hurt to start digging out any information we can on the serial numbers of the internal components of Earhart's engines.  We hope we'll need that information eventually - Canton engine or no.

I don't think that it is essential to have that info before we dig.  Let's say we discover that the records no longer exist.  Would we then not dig?  Of course not.  We have lots of questions about the engine Bruce recovered but it may or may not be possible to answer them all.  As always, we'd prefer absolute identification but we'll take what we can get.

The critics will howl no matter what we find.  If we find nothing they'll howl with laughter.  If we find an unidentifiable 1340 they'll say that it could have come from anywhere.  If we find an engine that can be identified as an R1340 S3H1 but can't be IDed further, they'll say we planted it there. If we find an engine with a data plate that says R1340 S3H1  ser. no. 6149 they'll say the Japanese planted it there.  All we can do is try to search intelligently for whatever is there.  As long as we make no unsupportable claims we have nothing to fear from the critics. "Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

Love to mother,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:24:32 EDT
From:         Craig Fuller
Subject:      Re: Heel dating

If it is a generic replacement heel, then how do we know it is for a women's shoe? And how was size determined?

>> Then there's the issue of the other heel of a different type found a
few meters away.<<

After reading the next post I obviously missed something. You found a sole near the cat's paw? Can the sole be identified? Recap please...

For me it is the shoe parts and the bones that keeps me the most interested in Niku. Of course the anecdotal story of airplane wreckage on the reef doesn't hurt too. The fact that Bruce does not remember the wreck of the Norwich still bothers me. How goes the research for the helo pilot etc? In line with Dr. King's statement that there are a number of non-field, relatively cheap, things to do first that may help us narrow our search... I think it would be very important to try to determine where Bruce picked up the engine before leaving on the next trip if at all possible.

Craig Fuller
Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
**************************************************************

From Ric

Recap:
The Cat's Paw heel was found in the immediate vicinity of a rubber sole that was broken into several pieces.  We know that the Cat's Paw heel goes with this sole because the nail holes match up.  Also found at this spot was a brass eyelet, a few scraps of what appears to be fire-damaged leather, and some pieces of charcoal (excavation later disclosed the presence of the campfire).  The identification of the shoe as a woman's Blucher Oxford was made by the Biltrite company based upon the stitching holes that are present along the edge of the sole.  The pattern of the stitching tells where the uppers were once attached.  This is what tells them that it was a Blucher Oxford.  The tightness of the stitching pattern and the diameter of the brass shoelace eyelet is what tells them that it was a woman's shoe.  There are no other markings on the sole which permit further identification.  The estimate of shoe size was based upon a reconstruction of the sole from the pieces recovered.

A second heel found a few meters away is not a Cat's Paw and is probably from a different pair of shoes.  No sole or other parts were found near this heel.

The fact that Bruce doesn't remember the wreck of the Norwich City doesn't bother me much.  The CO of the Coast Guard Loran station, who spent about a year on Gardner and flew in and out on a PBY, swore to me that there was no shipwreck  there.  Forest Blair and Bruce Yoho are still chasing the helo pilots.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:03:42 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      USS Swan

Your article about the mysterious voyages of the USS Swan in 1942 has been forwarded to the Mahan Naval History Mailing List for comment.

Several of the folks on that list seem to have all the books ever written about Pacific Naval History. Hopefully one or more of them will be intrigued enough to offer a scholarly opinion.

Tom
**************************************************************

From Ric

Sounds good.  I'll be very interested in any comments they may have.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:12:40 EDT
From:         Dave Bush
Subject:      Re: stacked fires

I was taught in the Boy Scouts (as an adult volunteer and professional staff member) that campfires are used by archeologists to trace village sites from thousands of years ago because they don't ever go away.  They completely sanitize the soil so that nothing will grown there again for a millenia, plus the re-use of the fire pits makes them even more long lasting.  I don't know if this site is a multi-use site, but it is plausible based on this info.  How it would have held up given wave action is another question, but you point out that it was decades old at the time of your discovery, correct?

**************************************************************

From Ric

It's safe to say that this area was never subject to wave activity and I would say that it's unlikely that it was ever subject to inundation due to flooding.  We really can't say how old the burn feature was.  It was not on the surface in 1991 but it's hard to say how it got below the surface.  There was no mound over it and, to my untrained eye, it looked like the stuff above it was due to just a natural build up over time.  On Niku, that takes a long time.  That's why the fire being of modern origin (if indeed it is) is so puzzling to me. ========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:24:36 EDT
From:         Dave Bush
Subject:      Re: What to do next

You are definitely right about more research closer to home.  The info that was mentioned on the U.S.S. Swan should be more thoroughly investigated. Even if the Swan's mission did not include direct orders regarding Earhart/Noonan, if they came upon this, knowing our men in the service, they would have photographed each other all over something like this, primarily because they wanted war souvenirs.  So somebody on that ship would have had a photograph or possibly even artifacts from the plane itself.  If the Navy did take the aircraft or major portions or artifacts, they are probably in storage someplace right now.  Where?  It didn't take a conspiracy to "hide" or more appropriately "lose" these items.  Hell, there was a war on and something like that, if it was retrieved could have just been lost in the shuffle.   The paper chase should be worth trying though.  As I said, even if the Navy didn't take an official role here, any servicemen with shore liberty would have had a field day.  There has to be more in official records regarding the Swan and the British officials trip to the island.  Navy records sound like a good starting place.  Do we have a source that can get into the Navy records and find the crew lists for the ship from 1937 (Earharts disappearance) thru the end of the war?  These are the people who would have direct knowledge, photos and artifacts.  And if the crew was the same in '37 as '42, would they not be likely to remember and maybe tie the two together?  Well, it was war and people had a lot of other things on their mind than one hapless pilot and her navigator.

Love To Mother,
Dave Bush
#2200
****************************************************************

From Ric

I certainly agree that it would be interesting to find out how much crew overlap there was (if any) on Swan between '37 and '42.  On the face of it, I would expect that the visit to Sydney, Hull and Gardner by Wernam and Majors was nothing more than a checking-up on the colony with the Swan doing taxi-cab service as a courtesy to the Brits.

Allow me to express a word of caution about "would haves."  It is always tempting to say that somebody "would have" done thus and so, but it is important to remember that what you're really saying is "I don't know, but based upon my knowledge of who these people were and what I think they were thinking, I'm guessing that they may have..."

LTM,
ric
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:29:18 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      Re: another mystery

I'll order the muster rolls for the Swan, but will let someone else tackle the rest as I  have my hands full with the Noonan Project. (Wonder if the Swan had an Ensign Pulver?)

Smooth Sailing,
Ron Dawson 2126

**************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Ron.  I'll take a black coffee with my muster roll.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:35:07 EDT
From:         Chris Kennedy
Subject:      Re: another mystery

I worked for two summers writing Ship Histories at the Navy Historical Center at the Navy Yard in Washington, D.C.  This is a great group of people with all sorts of information, and may have some valuable leads on the "Swan" issues and others.  A researcher in the D.C. area may want to pay them a visit.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Good suggestion. We know the underwater archaeology folks at Naval History very well.  I'll ask them to who we should talk to about this issue. ========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:37:24 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Kanton engine

Bruce, when and if the engine is recovered and taken to a lab, do you know where there might be serial numbers on such an engine. Crank, Rods, Cam?

I am digging a B-29 engine out of a hill side in Califoria, where would I look for serial numbers?
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:56:33 EDT
From:         Roberta Woods
Subject:      Swan song

This information on the Swan comes from the Web at http://www.uss-salem.org/danfs/mine/am34.htm

Swan (MSC 37)  =97 4/7/87 scrapped
MSC refers to the Military Sealift Command

From: Dictionary of American Fighting Ships

Swan

Any of various heavy-bodied, long-necked, mostly pure white aquatic birds, related to  but larger than the goose. These birds walk awkwardly but fly strongly once started and swim gracefully.

(AM-34: dp. 950; l. 187'10"; b. 35'6"; dr. 9'10"; s. 14 k.; cpl. 78; a. 2 3"; cl. Lapwing)

Swan (AM-34), a minesweeper, was laid down at Mobile, Ala., on 10 December 1917 by the Alabama Dry Dock & Shipbuilding Co.; launched on Independence Day 1918, sponsored by Miss Hazel Donaldson; and commissioned at New Orleans, La., on 31 January 1919, Lt. (jg.) Fredman J. Walcott, USNRF, in command.

Swan completed final acceptance trials on 8 June 1920 and was assigned to Division 2 of Mine Squadron 2 of the Atlantic Fleet. She operated out of Portsmouth, N.H., until 23 May 1922, when she was decommissioned there. The minesweeper was placed in commission again on 23 June 1923.

That fall, she was assigned to the Washington Navy Yard but operated out of Quantico, Va. By the spring of 1926, Swan changed duty stations again, working for the 15th Naval District out of Coco Solo in the Canal Zone. On 30 April 1931, while still in the Canal Zone, she was designated a "minesweeper for duty with aircraft," presaging her later change of designation.

She decommissioned again on 21 December 1933, this time at San Diego, Calif. A little over three months later, on 2 April 1934, the minesweeper was recommissioned and reassigned to the Fleet Air Base at Pearl Harbor.

On 22 January 1936, Swan was officially redesignated a small seaplane tender, AVP-7.

For the next five years, Swan operated as a tender for Patrol Wing (PatWing) 2 out of Pearl Harbor. On the morning of 7 December 1941 she was resting on the Marine Railway dock at Pearl Harbor when Japanese planes swooped in on the ships in the harbor. Her crew saw the first bomb dropped on the south ramp of the Fleet Air Base at 0755. Eight minutes later, she opened fire with her 3 inch antiaircraft battery. The next few hours were so hectic for her that her crew could not maintain a chronological log of the action, but they did claim an enemy plane for their 3-inch battery. Though she had been in drydock for boiler upkeep, her engineers had her ready to refloat by 1315.

Swan remained in Pearl Harbor for another month, assisting in the salvage work.

Then, on 8 January 1942, she got underway for American Samoa. She arrived at Pago Pago on the 18th and remained until 25 July, except for a voyage to Danger Island in midMarch and a month-long visit to Wallis Island from late May to early July. She headed back to Pearl Harbor on the 25th and arrived on 4 August. She was overhauled there and, after loading ammunition and supplies at Kaneohe Naval Air Station, from 28 to 30 October, got underway to return to the South Pacific. On this voyage, she visited Canton Island, Suva in the Fiji Islands, Funafuti in the Ellice Islands, Gardner Island, Sydney Island, Hull Island, and Palmyra Island. She departed Palmyra Island on 8 December and returned to Pearl Harbor on the 13th.

Swan put to sea again on the 30th to carry supplies to Canton Island.

She unloaded her cargo there on 7 January 1943 and reentered Pearl Harbor on the 16th. The tender remained at Pearl Harbor until 12 March when she sailed to Johnston Island to tow YC-811 back to Pearl Harbor.

Swan returned to Pearl Harbor on 23 March and from then until the beginning of May, she assisted the fleet air wing by towing targets for bombing practice. From 8 to 22 May, she made a voyage to Tern Island of French Frigate Shoals, located about halfway between the main Hawaiian Islands and Midway Island. Upon her return to Pearl Harbor, she resumed target towing duties, this time for torpedo bombers. Between 1 and 7 June, she made another round-trip voyage to French Frigate Shoals and back, then resumed target towing and torpedo recovery duty.

For the next two years, Swan's area of operations was confined to the immediate vicinity of the major islands of the Territory of Hawaii. She continued to participate in training missions by towing targets and recovering torpedoes for both planes and ships. She also transported passengers and cargo between the islands and rendered other auxiliary services.

By June 1945, she was in the Consolidated Shipyard in Los Angeles, Calif., undergoing a major overhaul. She remained there through the month of July and into August. On 13 August, Swan headed back to Pearl Harbor and arrived on the 21st. She resumed her routine until 6 October, when she set sail for San Diego. After a two-day stop there, on the 15th and 16th, she continued on to the Panama Canal. She arrived at Coco Solo in the Canal Zone on 28 October and, two days later, continued on to Boston, Mass. She reported to the Commandant 1st Naval District, at Boston on 9 November. On 13 December 1945, pursuant to the findings of a board of inspection and survey, Swan was decommissioned at Boston. Her name was struck from the Navy list on 8 January 1946 and, just over nine months later, on 12 October her hulk was delivered to the Maritime Commission at Newport, R.I., for disposal.

Swan earned one battle star during World War II.

Love to Mother,
Roberta Woods
***************************************************************

From Ric

This is excellent Roberta. So after she left Gardner she returned to Pearl by way of Palmyra.  Odd that her involvement with the Earhart flight and search didn't make it into her official history.

Through this same resource, let's look for other visits to Gardner by American ships.  We know that USS Balsam was there bringing supplies to the Loran station.  Swan's sister ship Pelican was there in April 1939 for an aerial survey of the island.  Let's also check Swan's other sister USS Avocet.  I wonder what ship brought Floyd Kilts to the island in 1946 to disassemble the Loran station?
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:58:43 EDT
From:         Bill Leary
Subject:      Re: What to do next

> If we find an engine with a data plate that says R1340 S3H1  ser. no. 6149
> they'll say the Japanese planted it there.

Well, wouldn't that at least prove that the plane didn't go down in the sea?

That is, it must have landed somewhere, eh?

    - Bill
***************************************************************

From Ric

That's right.
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:28:18 EDT
From:         Roberta Woods
Subject:      How to research crews

Regarding the crew list for the Swan, the following from
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq13-1.htm

The Naval Historical Center does not have custody of crew lists or current addresses for former crew members. However, this information can be compiled from several sources.

The names of the officers usually appear on the first page of each month's deck log. The enlisted men assigned to a naval ship or command are listed on muster rolls which were also submitted monthly.

The Textual Reference Branch, National Archives, Washington, DC 20408 (202-501-5671) holds copies of the deck logs from 1801 through December 1940, as well as microfilm copies of the muster rolls through 1938.

The Textual Reference Branch, National Archives and Records Administration, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001 (301-713-7250) has custody of the deck logs from 1 January 1941 through 1967, as well as microfilm copies of the muster rolls from 1939 through 1971. After 1956, a list of the officers is usually included with the muster rolls. The Textual Reference Branch at College Park also has custody of the Bureau of Naval Personnel Casualty Files, which have the official list of Navy casualties for each World War II action. The Bureau of Naval Personnel lists of the World War II Casualties, which have been placed on microfilm and microfiche, can be ordered from the Naval Historical Center.

By using the list of officers in the deck logs and the muster rolls, one can compile a list of the crew. Then by using the crew list and the list of Casualties the names of the survivors of a World War II ship or vessel can be created.

Love to Mother,
Roberta Woods
========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:32:05 EDT
From:         Chris Kennedy
Subject:      Navy History Center

From Chris Kennedy (ChrisK@chemoil.com)
8/26/98  12:23

The Ships Histories Division at the Naval Historical Center actually has a web page, with a section devoted to Amelia Earhart that mentions that you can order various Navy records concerning AE, including a Coast Guard tape containing the Pan Am report.  This may be old news to you, but if not it's definitely worth a look.  You never know until you look---perhaps something shows up in these compilations but not others you have seen thus far.

***************************************************************

From Ric

We've seen their file on Earhart.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:01:27 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      USS Avocet

Is this as obvious to anyone else,as it seems to me...?

An earlier posting regarding "The Wreck Photo" gave its possible source as "a crewmember from HMS Adamant."  Well.... Could someone, down the line, have confused HMS Adamant with USS Avocet?

Maybe.  Maybe not.

(Perhaps I should stick to radio...?)

73
Mike E. the Radio Historian #2194
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:17:44 EDT
From:         Roberta Woods
Subject:      Pelican & Avocet

In regard to the Pelican and Avocet, the following information and where it was located on the Web follows. Nothing, so far, on the Balsam. --Roberta Woods

The following information is from the Web at:
http://www.uss-salem.org/danfs/mine/am27.htm

From: Dictionary of American Fighting Ships

Pelican
Any of a genus of large web-footed birds with a very large bill and distendable gular pouch in which fish are caught.

(AM-27: dp. 950; l. 187'10"; b. 35'6"; dr. 9'10"; s. 14 k.; cpl. 78; a. 2 3"; cl. Lapwing)

The first Pelican was laid down 10 November 1917 at Gas Engine and Power Co., Morris Heights, N.Y.; launched 12 June 1918 sponsored by Miss E. B. Patterson; and commissioned 10 October 1918, Lt. (j.g.) G. E. McHugh, USNR, in command.

Upon completion of fitting out, she sailed for Scotland on 6 April 1919, to assist in the sweeping of the North Sea Mine Barrage. Arriving 20 April, she and other minesweepers immediately went to work in sweeping mines. During this service Pelican's naval career almost ended when it had hardly begun. While sweeping several mines, one of them exploded underneath her hull causing her to take on a great amount of water and slowly settle by the head. Despite heavy seas, and threat of imminent sinking, Pelican's crew, with the assistance of two of her sisterships, and after 19 hours of effort, managed to bring the badly damaged vessel into port at Scapa Flow for temporary repairs. Fully repaired at Newcastle on-the-Tyne, Pelican departed for home, arriving at New York on 6 December.

Pelican next transferred to the Pacific Fleet and operated out of Pearl Harbor until decommissioned there 3 May 1922.

Recommissioned 17 August, she performed miscellaneous tasks, such as survey work and photography missions, while attached to Naval Air Station, Pearl Harbor.

Reclassified AVP-6 on 22 January 1936, Pelican was assigned to Commander Aircraft, Scouting Force for further duty. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor found Pelican on the West Coast. With the beginning of war, the sturdy little vessel commenced tending aircraft and serving as convoy escort, until May 1943, when she joined the Atlantic Fleet. She alternated tending seaplanes and serving as convoy escort, performing an unglamorous but vital part of the war effort. Reporting to the Fleet Sound School in March 1945, Pelican assisted in experiments with new ASW gear until October, when she arrived at Charleston Navy Yard. Decommissioned 30 November, she was struck from the Naval Vessel Register 19 December. She was sold for scrap in November 1946.

The following information is from the Web page:
http://www.uss-salem.org/danfs/mine/am19.htm

From: Dictionary of American Fighting Ships

Avocet
A long-legged, web-footed shore bird possessing a slender, up-curved bill, found in western and southern states.

(AM-19: dp. 950; l. 187'10"; b. 35'6"; dr. 9'10"; s. 14 k.; cpl. 78; a. 2 3"; cl. Lapwing)

The first Avocet (AM-19) was launched 9 March 1918 by Baltimore Dry Dock and Shipbuilding Co., Baltimore Md.; sponsored by Miss Frances V. Imbach; commissioned 17 September1918, Lieutenant C. Crone in command and reported to the 5th Naval District, where she operated until July 1919.

Between July and November 1919 Avocet was engaged in sweeping the North Sea mine fields. Upon her return to the United States 11 November, she continued on duty in the 5th Naval District until 1920 when she was assigned to the Pacific Fleet. Arriving at San Diego in January 1920, Avocet remained at various west coast ports until August 1921 when she proceeded to Pearl Harbor. In October 1921 she departed Pearl Harbor and steamed to Cavite, Philippine Islands. She was assigned to the 2d Division, Mine Detachment, Asiatic Fleet, and served with them until 3 April 1922 when she was placed out of commission at Cavite.

Avocet was recommissioned at Cavite 8 September 1925 and reported to the Aircraft Squadron, Asiatic Fleet, for duty as aircraft tender. Until 1938 she participated in training exercises and joint maneuvers in the Pacific. She assisted in the Naval Eclipse Expedition in the Philippines during 1929.

Reclassified AVP-4, 22 January 1936, Avocet underwent conversion to a seaplane tender in March 1938.

She then served with Aircraft, Scouting Force, cruising in the Pacific with the fleet. She arrived at Pearl Harbor 4 June 1941 and remained on duty until May 1942. She was present when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor 7 December 1941, but escaped without casualties. 

Avocet departed Pearl Harbor 11 May 1942 and steamed to San Francisco where she underwent a yard overhaul. On 24 July 1942 she departed Seattle for Kodiak, Alaska. Throughout the remainder of World War II Avocet served in the Alaskan and Aleutian theatres of operations as a unit of Patrol Wing 4. During the years, she tended patrol squadrons, transported personnel and cargo, and participated in patrol, survey, and salvage duties. Between 2 and 4 September 1942 she conducted rescue and salvage operations on the torpedoed seaplane tender Casco (AVP-12). She assisted in towing the damaged vessel to port and took on board a portion of her crew. Avocet returned to Seattle 16 October 1945; was decommissioned there 10 December l945, and sold 12 December 1946.

Avocet received one battle star for her World War II service.
**************************************************************

From Ric

If Pelican was ever at Gardner after her visit in April of 1939 (which is not mentioned in the above history) it had to be before May of '43.  Avocet's participation in the Eclipse Expedition to Canton in June of 1937 is not mentioned.  If she was down that away again it had to be before May of 1942.

Neither of these seem likely to have had much activity down in our neck of the woods.  Swan seems to have been the taxi-cab of choice.
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:32:40 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Loran vet aboard

I'd like to welcome my old friend Richard K. Evans PhD to the forum.  Dick is a veteran of U.S. Coast Guard Unit 92, the Loran station on Gardner Island. His recollections and photos from that time have been invaluable to us in understanding what it was like there then.

Dick will be happy to answer any questions forum members have about his stay on Gardner during WWII.  He was there right from the time of the construction of the station in July 1944.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:57:16 EDT
From:         Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Engine origins

The Kanton Engine, if it is indeed  a 1340 from AE's L10E would shout certain questions to us, namely:

1.  Did it find land by a conventional landing, a crash landing, or as debris from a midair explosion over land?

2. If by a conventional landing, who would have had the technology and the interest to remove it from the plane in the intervening years? And why only one engine?

3. What would be the possible motivations for removal of an aircraft power plant, even from a wrecked aircraft, in that part of the Pacific?  (Scrap? Parts?)

Answers to these kinds of questions may seem obvious to those initiated with aeronautics, but as one who has NO aircraft experience and has never actually flown, these issues strike me as germane.  I avidly invite commentary on this!--Gene Dangelo, the landlubber musician  :)

****************************************************************

From Ric

Let's back up for a second.  If there is a 1340 in the Kanton dump then it is the badly beat-up and corroded engine that Bruce found in knee-deep water on the reef-flat of an island in the Phoenix Group about 50 feet from shore. Regardless of whose airplane it came from, how does an engine end up in a place like that?

Nobody on any of the Phoenix Islands (other than Canton, the one place we KNOW the engine did not come from) ever had the knowledge or wherewithall to remove an engine from an airplane - period.  The ONLY airplane known to have arrived at any of the Phoenix Islands (other than Canton) is the C-47A that crashed at Sydney.  Both engines from that airplane (P&W R1830s) were sitting on the ground on Sydney in 1971, the year Bruce picked up his engine.  We know because we've got a picture of 'em taken by Bruce's buddy Del Saylor.  So Bruce's engine has nothing to do with the Sydney crash.  It is, therefore, from some airplane that went down on or near one of the Phoenix Islands (other than Canton) and was never officially known (or even rumored) to be there.

So how does an engine end up on a reef about fifty feet from shore?  As Gene suggests, it can fall out of the sky as the result of the inflight destruction of an airplane.  This, to me, seems like a such a remote possibility in this instance as to be not worth considering.

So if it didn't depart the airplane while it was still aloft, and nobody removed it from an airplane with wrenches, chain-falls and an A-frame, then it was ripped off by some violent force when the airplane was on the ground. Bruce noticed no other wreckage nearby, so the rest of the airplane it came from was somehow obscured from view. Engines are heavy (a 1340 weighs in at just under 1,000 pounds).  In a crash, they sometimes end up some distance from the main body of wreckage because they rip free and continue forward due to their mass. (That happened in the Sydney crash.)   If an airplane crashed on the beach, headed toward the ocean, it is conceivable that an engine could end up where Bruce found his.

Another scenario might have the airplane sitting intact on the reef-flat and be battered to pieces and washed up into the beachfront vegetation by rising surf.  In this case, the engine would be left behind, having snagged on the coral as the  airplane was swept along.   Spins my prop.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:54:25 EDT
From:         Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Re: Heel dating

I'm just curious: were there any marks on the inner part of that shoe sole, such as tarsal pressure marks, which may be able to be coordinated with any surviving medical X-rays (if indeed there are any at all) of AE to "match up the foot" that wore the shoe, so to speak? I wonder if it's even possible, but it may be something to consider!
---My prop spinneth over,  Gene Dangelo  :)

***************************************************************

From Ric

No such luck.  The sole and heel are quite worn but not in any distinctive way, and we have no x-rays of Earhart whatsoever.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:20:02 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re Heel dating

The dating of the Cat's Paw heel sure sounds pretty solid.  I think the Biltrite people made a good and honest effort.  Now we have only to wonder how long it may have taken from the time the heel came out of the mold for it to get through distribution channels to some repair shop, to get put on a shoe, and for that shoe to somehow find its way to Niku.  It was about ten years after that heel was made that Americans began to show up on Niku. (We're not sure it's from a woman's shoe) That might not be a long time in the life of a replacement rubber heel.  And it endures still -- back in America at last!

***************************************************************
From Ric

You make a good point. In theory, a replacement heel could sit on the shelf for many years.

Was the shoe a woman's or not?  Is the dating of the heel any more certain than the opinion that it was a woman's shoe?  Gallagher found part of the sole of what he took to be a woman's "stoutish walking shoe."  He surely did not know that Earhart had been wearing just such a shoe.  Any American presence on the island - starting with the USS Bushnell survey in 1939, through the Word War II period - was military.  Whether for a man or a woman, this shoe does not appear to be military.  And whether the shoe we found is at all related to the shoe of similar description that Gallagher found is almost immaterial.

You either have to accept that there was a woman's shoe on the island in 1940 in close association with the remains of a dead person, or you have to discount Gallagher's opinion.

It sure looks to me as if we have the same gopher poking his head out of his hole and being seen by different people, in different contexts, at different times.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:41:23 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      campfire sites

When Ric says the campfire site TIGHAR found is an ideal location for a camp, I think he means that much of the lagoon shore of Aukaraine (south) is favorable. Maybe Tekibeia and Noriti as well?  And Ritiati where they chose to put the village?  That includes a lot of shore to be searched if the site found by Gallagher's people is somewhere else.  It's tempting to believe the shoe parts found indicate that other site is nearby, but that could be misleading.  I sure wish something could be found that would pin down Gallagher's site more exactly. On to Tarawa!  And to those files still in England!

I'm still troubled by Gallagher's location, "Bones were found on South East corner of island... etc."  I know that's not where the planting was done, but it seems such a specific location -- a "corner" of the island.  If you're looking at the old (1825) map, a South East corner is even more obvious than on the later 1935 map.  Available in 1939, Gallagher may not have seen it.

So, I keep wondering about that South East corner and concluding that's where the Loran station was from mid-1944 through 1945.  Out of curiosity, I wonder what is there now.  What shape was the area left in when the Loran station was abandoned?

****************************************************************
From Ric

This is the old problem of semantics.  What does Gallagher mean when he says "corner"?  We can guess, but without having him here to query, we can't know. The southeast corner could be any or all of the southeastern quadrant.  We have to rely upon more specific information, such as that it was being cleared in 1940.  We have photographic evidence which shows that the section of Aukaraime immediately beyond Bauareke Passage was freshly cleared by June of 1941.  The "corner" where the Loran station later stood was not cleared until the Coasties came in with bulldozers in 1944.  Today it's an impenetrable wasteland of dense scaevola strewn with pockets of junk from the Loran station.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:52:01 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Noonan Project

It's probably evident that I'm floundering about looking for something I can get my teeth into.  I think TIGHAR has recently received some new information related to Fred's seafaring days.  There's probably not been time to examine it in any detail.  Is it known from this material, or from other sources, what ships Fred sailed on?

***************************************************************

From Ric

As a matter of fact, Jerry Hamilton (the famous JHam 2128) has done a great deal of work with Noonan's maritime records.  He prepared an excellent report on his findings for our conference in San Carlos.

Jerry - ol' buddy ol' pal - if you'll update your report with the most recent discoveries about our hero, and send it to me as an attached file, we'll mount it on the TIGHAR website as a Research Bulletin along with some nifty photos. Whadya say?

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:56:07 EDT
From:         Sam Ginder
Subject:      Re: USS Swan

I'll make some inquiries at the History Department at the Naval Academy re suggestions regarding where we might go to track down the Op Order that sent USS SWAN to Gardner. Who knows, maybe the naval historians might have some good suggestions on how to proceed. If I find anything of value I'll let you know.
Sam Ginder (2180)

****************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Sam.  Wouldn't surprise me if that secret Cincpac despatch ordered Swan to make a line search for Rickenbacker's B-17 from Canton to Suva to Funafuti and return to Canton.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:58:19 EDT
From:         Dave Bush
Subject:      Re: What to do next

Well, if these people really want to stretch the point as they have in the past they could even say that Earharts plane really did go down at sea, but since it had flotation ala ping pong balls, a Jap ship could have found it and moved it, then planted the engine later.  See what a fertile imagination can do!  (Fertile has to do with dirt, so I guess my head is full of sand!)

Love to Mother,
Dave Bush
#2200
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:00:40 EDT
From:         Jack
Subject:      Find Swan crew

Some publications that come to mind

The Naval Institute Proceedings --which is a very informative magazine. In fact Ric wrote a very good article "Why the Navy didn't Find Amelia" dated Feb. 1993. It was that article plus the TV coverage that got me interested in TIGHAR.

Printed monthly by U.S. Naval Institute 2062 Generals Highway, Annaoplis MD. 21401 Editorial Offices located at the U.S. Naval Academy, Preble Hall, 118 Maryland Av. Annapolis, MD. 21402-5035 Think their Web page is www.usni.org

Another is Sea Power-- Printed monthly by the Navy League 2300 Wilson Blvd. Arlington Va.22201-3308 The Navy League is an independent non-profit civilian organization.

Another and maybe the best is The American Legion magazine. Published monthly from 5561 West 74th St. Indianapolis, In. 46268 They have a section which covers Reunions for all services plus a section called Finding A Buddy. Write: Finders Seakers P.O. Box 901, Columbia Mo. 65205 or call (573) 474-4444

Dave, If you would like samples of these mags. I would be glad to send you copies.
LTM, Jack #2157
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:02:32 EDT
From:         Jack
Subject:      Navy History Center

Chris, I have ordered the U.S. Coast Guard records you referred to in your message. Reel NRS-246-C (microfilm) which includes correspondence/messages/transcript of USCGC Itasca and Pan American Report covering July 1937 to May 1938. Should be in my hands shortly. Will keep you and TIGHAR posted.

LTM, Jack # 2157
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:39:26 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      What Swan's orders said

Here's a nibble from the Mahan Naval History List, from a recognized Pacific Naval historian.  I've written back to him about the monograph he mentioned.

======
Regarding the USS Swan and Gardner I. in Nov. 42 I can offer at least the text of the two messages cited in her log. They come from the CINCPAC SECRET & CONFIDENTIAL MESSAGE FILE which I happen to have complete from Dec 41-Nov. 42 on 50+ rolls of microfilm, being extremely useful for my Pacific War research.

292020 of Oct. 42  Compatwing 2 to TU 9.6.8 (USS Swan), info
                Cincpac, Comairpac, Comhawseafron
Task Unit 9.6.8 USS Swan proceed at 0800 VW Oct 30 from Kaneohe Bay to Canton Island via following points:
(A) 21-12 North 157-30 West      (E) 06-00 North 167-07 West
(B) 19-00 North 160-15 West      (F) 02-00 North 169-12 West
(C) 15-00 North 162-24 West      (G) 02-00 South 171-15 West
(D) 10-00 North 165-00 West
Thence to Canton X Latitudes North Longitudes West unless other- wise indicated X Speed of advance 10 knots X On arrival Canton deliver personnel and material X When ready after delivery return to Pearl Harbor via reverse of above route X Upon arrival Pearl duty under Compatwing 2 completed communication in accordance with Pac 70 X Maintain 24 hour guard of NPM Fox schedules X This by hand to Swan 

072259 of Nov. 1942 Cincpac to Comairpac, info Comsopac, Swan,
        Port Dir Suva, Comserforpac, Comgen Fantan
Direct Swan on completion present duty Canton proceed Suva report Port Director there for orders connection delivery about 120 tons supplies to islands in Phoenix Group for High Commissioner West Pacific X Completion return Pearl X From Canton advise Suva Swan expected time arrival and from Suva inform all concerned itinerary after leaving there.

Sounds pretty routine to me. I believe that Amelia Earhart went down just north of Howland I. An old friend who helped me in my book THE FIRST TEAM, Bowen Weisheit, is an aerial navigator trained in 1942 for the Marines in the same methods used by Fred Noonan. He has written a monograph on Earhart's last flight which, I think, answers a great number of questions regarding Noonan's navigational methods. I don't have the monograph immediately at hand, but will e-mail details tomorrow to anyone who contacts me at jl@mpm1.mpm.edu I think Bowen's solution to be about as close as definitive until
someone finds the wreck.

John Lundstrom

=============

Note that he's convinced that Amelia went down at sea, at least "until someone finds the wreck". 'Tis a wise historian who covers all his bets.

Tom
***************************************************************

From Ric

This is excellent!  Now we don't have to guess about what Swan was supposed to do.  Makes perfect sense.  The settlers in the Phoenix Group had been depending on British resupply but once the war got going other priorities left them pretty much abandoned.  The usual means of pre-war colonial transport were a couple of antiquated Royal Colony Ships (Nimanoa and Moamoa) and they may have been lost when Tarawa fell in December of '41.  By late 1942 the settlers in the Phoenix were probably in rough shape.   The Western Pacific High Commission in Suva asks the Yanks for help in getting supplies to the colonists.  Swan gets the job.

After she delivers her passengers to Canton she goes to Suva, picks up 120 tons of supplies, goes back to Canton to pick up the British officials in charge of the Phoenix Islands (Wernam and Major) and starts making the rounds of Sydney, Hull, and Gardner.

Questions remain.  Why the initial stop at Gardner enroute to Suva?  Why the stop at Funafuti on the way back to Canton?  What's all this business about the native policeman they pick up at Gardner on the way back to Canton?  How do Wernam and Major get back to Canton after Swan drops them at Gardner (PBY? That would make sense.)  I still want to look into this Rickenbacker search that is going on at the same time.

Mr. Lundstrom's opinion about what happened to Amelia Earhart is based upon the information that has been available to him.  I used to share his opinion until I learned more.  I'm confident that if he is a rational person who knows how to think, and he chooses to familiarize himself with TIGHAR's investigation, he will recognize the same possibilities that we see.

Thanks Tom.  Good work.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:54:51 EDT
From:         Daryll Bolinger
Subject:      The Swan's Secret Mission

I just wanted to get in on the discussion about what the USS Swan might be doing with her island hopping.

Taking a brief overview of the Pacific War at the time of the Swan's voyage, and I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm wrong. I'd like to start with the Battle of Midway June 3-6, 1942. Most historians consider that the turning point of the Pacific War. After Midway the Japanese Fleet was considered defensive as opposed to offensive.  Some of the credit for the victory goes to R.I. ( Radio Intelligence ) for learning that the Japanese code word for Midway was AF. On Aug. 8,1942 the Marines landed on Guadalcanal for a 6 month battle. On Oct. 26,1942 was the first battle of the Solomon Islands. Nov. 12-13,1942 occured what is called the  Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. Nov.30,1942 was the US Naval Victory in the 3rd Battle of the Solomon Island. I mention these Battles to show the progress of our Forces in the Pacific. It will not be for another year,  Nov. 20-24,1943 that our forces take Tarawa and Mankin in the Gilberts Island Group. The Gilberts are the next Island group located NE of the Phoenix group   (Canton, Gardner, Hull,Sydney etc.)  I should point out  that the Gilberts are 1 hr. behind the Phoenix Group .

This is the way I see the Swan's voyage. She sailed from Pearl under Compatwing 2 secret dispatch 292020. She sailed with Cincpac Secret Dispatch 072259 sealed, under orders not to open until at sea, the reason we don't see it mentioned until Canton.  At Canton they dropped of Ensign Pittman and 36 enlisted men that they brought from Pearl. By the number of men and the rank of the commanding officer, I would guess they were specialist in R.I. ( Radio Intelligence ) because of the remoteness of the island.

In a Memorandum for Captain Goggins, dated 25 Aug. 1943 from T.A. Huckins ( Admiral ? ). Subject: Expanison of R.I. Facilities Pacific Area. There should be 10 men to a DF (Direction finding) unit, 3 units per Hdqtrs  R.I. Station. One DF unit at Hdqters with 2 remote DF units.......End. That's 30 men just for DF units alone. I realize the memo is dated a year after the Swan's voyage, but I think  most organizations have roots.

I believe someone on Canton, maybe Wernam or Major, instructed the Swan to stop at Gardner and tell the native policeman B. Epia to get ready for a short cruise in 2 weeks on the return of the Swan from Suva. The Japanese have radio recievers too, that's the reason for personnel contact.

It seems that the only reason for the Swan to go to Suva was to pick up Mr. Michael Lee, a radio telegraphist. I'm sure the Navy had a lot of radio telegraphist back at Pearl. The only clue to Mr. Lee, is in the last name, I think Mr. Lee could have been a second generation Chinese American who could have been fluent in Japanese.

In a letter dated Aug.3,1942
From: The Vice Chief of Naval Operations.
To:      The Chief of Naval Personnel.
Subject: Radio Intelligence Personnel for Fleet Intelligence Center, Pearl Harbor, T.H.
From Admiral F. J. Horne,
.......In view of the highly secret nature of the work, it is important that the men chosen be at least second generation Americans and of excellent character........End.

Mr. Lee could have come to Suva from one of the other R.I. centers in Australia, New Zealand, Samoa, etc. The Navy was a little bit short on people they could trust, who understood  both Japanese and Morse-code.  Why stop at Funafuti? Maybe B. Epia the native policeman smokes a certain brand of cigarettes. Why does the Swan have to pick up B. Epia on Gardner? I think it is political move, a policeman is an authoritiy figure, and he probably has relavtives on every island. If the Navy is going leave personnel on an island it is best to make friends and a relavtive could help.

The Swan returns to Canton where they pick-up D.C.I. Wernam , Mr. R.M. Majors and the 3 natives . Ensign Pittman tells the Swan he's ready to test the Canton Equipment. The Swan then goes to Sydney island with B. Epia still on board. On Sydney the government officals and B. Epia the native policeman, could have convinced the residents to let maybe10 sailors live on the island so they could do their part in figting the Japanese. The same could have been done at Hull island. Everybody returns to Gardner. After a celebration dinner and a night of toasting their success everybody hits the sack. The next morning B. Epia gets up and goes home. Wernam, Majors, and the 3 natives remain on board to discuss and finalize plans without B. Epia around.  B. Epia could also have been getting a place ready on Gardner for Wernam and Majors.

The USS Swan then sets sail across the international date line (the clocks where changed). Ensign Pittman and the 36 enlisted men had just about a month to set up equipment and antennas, it was time for calibration and tests. The Swan goes maybe into the Gilberts ( pretty dangerous ) because the Japanese are there, but she has been there before though looking for AE.  Some coded transmissions around a known geographic point and the Navy is in business. By being close to Gilberts the Navy can hope to pick-up the low power transmissions. The Navy is now in position to monitor radio traffic in the Gilberts, when the fleet is ready to take Tarawa they will have the intelligence, but they don't know that's still about  a year away.  Thats the way I read the Swan logs.

DARYLLB
**************************************************************

From Ric

Well, I fell into the trap of thinking that Swan might be on a mission to search for Rickenbacker.  Didn't seem like such a great leap.  There's still a possibility that the Rickenbacker search played some role in Swan's travels, but we now know that her secret orders from Cincpac were to deliver groceries.

Daryll is in a worse fix than I am.  He must now acknowledge that his elaborate scenario - right down to the celebration dinner - is groundless fantasy, or he must take the next step down the road and say that that the secret orders were a cover.  Stay tuned for the next exciting episode.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:23:17 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Raiders of the Lost Lockheed

>Are there any facilities where recovered artifacts might have been stored
>by our government?
>(That's what the Smithsonian is for, but only important historical properties.
>Raiders of the Lost Ark is fiction.)

Well....  I'm not suggesting that any smoking guns from the Swan are stashed anywhere, but there ARE a good many facilities other than the SI that squirrel way artifacts of one kind and another.  The Naval Historical Center, for one, and of course Wright Patterson, where as everyone knows the aliens are salted away cheek-to-cheek.  I think most "Feds" who saw "Raiders" chuckled at the final scene because it was so completely plausible.

Tom King
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:25:53 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: stacked fires

Dave, firepits and their contents really DO go away, even without surface disturbance by things like wave action.  The charcoal and ash will be scattered and decompose just like most everything else, particularly in a very active biotic environment like what passes for soil at Aukaraime on Niku (loosely consolidated coral rubble and sand, with a thin covering of organic material that's constantly recycled by crabs and microorganizms).  We find well-preserved firepits where conditions are right -- in protected areas like the insides of pithouses, and where the soil isn't turned over by micro-critters as constantly as it is on Niku -- and where lots of fires have burned for long periods of time.  We found a firepit at "John Manybarrel's House" in the village on Niku, for example; it was pretty clearly the remains of a long-standing cookhouse.  Consider further the fact that Aukaraime was cleared in '40-41 to plant coconuts, and I think we have to conclude that the survival of a short-term firepit from '37 is close to fantastic.  Not impossible, but not at all likely.

Tom King
Project Archeologist
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:00:58 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      More from Lundstrom

Here is another note from John Lundstrom, regarding the monograph he mentioned yesterday:

>         The monograph is entitled "The Last Flight of Frederick J.
>Noonan and Amelia Earhart" by Bowen P. Weisheit, Major USMCR (Ret.)
>and can be obtained through the author at 9 Courtland St., Bel Air,
>MD 21014  for $ 14.95. It is a large format paperback of 58 pages
>with numerous maps and photos.
>        Bowen is very familiar with Noonan's navigation, having
>learned from the same teachers. He thinks Noonan did an excellent
>job and that Amelia would not follow his final course. He estimates
>the crash site at about 20 miles north of Howland and offers cogent
>reasons why the Mandates detour and the flight to Gardner I. could not
>have occurred.
>        Hope this helps.
>        Best wishes,
>        John Lundstrom

LTM,

Tom #2179
***************************************************************

From Ric

I have a copy of Weisheit's maunscript.  He had the same problem Lundstrom has - trying to draw good conclusions from bad information.

Some examples:

Weisheit - "Noonan was poured aboard the plane just in time for take off. ...Noonan, resting peacefully in his navigation station in the rear cabin some ten feet from the cockpit, probably never even woke up for about five hours..."

Pure folklore.  The film of the final takeoff shows that Noonan was sober, bright, and chipper.  He climbed aboard the airplane through the cockpit hatch and rode where he usually rode - in the right seat.

Weisheit - (speaking of the difficult Lae takeoff) "Captain Noonan had known it might be like that and to reduce weight, had cut the fuel load by approximately 150 gallons.  This reduced the plane's weight by some 900 lbs. but likewise cut his reserve flying time to a little less than 5%."

The Electra had a total capacity of 1,151 U.S. gallons. Both Collopy and Chater, the only aviation authorities present that day, agree (in separate contemporaneous written accounts) that the airplane left with 1,100 U.S. gallons aboard.  The power management guidelines prepared for AE by Lockheed's Kelly Johnson give her 24 hours of flying time with that fuel load.  That's a standard 20% reserve (5 hours) for a 19 hour flight to Howland.

Weisheit has a genuine knowledge of aerial celestial navigation and he clutters his manuscript with impressive-looking, but mostly hypothetical, calculations.  He routinely states raw supposition as fact. It's clear that Weisheit has no training in historical investigation.  Garbage in, garbage out. His conclusions are invalid.
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:05:22 EDT
From:         HAG
Subject:      AE's frequencies

Vern Klein wrote:

> It's very difficult for me to believe that AE knew of some strange
>  characteristic of the DF that prompted her to ask for 7500 kc.  It must
> have been a mistake -- a misunderstanding.  It has always bothered me that if
> you drop the last zero, you have 750.  And 750 meters is 400 kc which would
> make a lot of sense.  We see in these messages that AE herself did speak in
> terms of wavelength -- 25 meters and 46 meters (6/30/37).  Did she get
> confused?

But AE also tuned her receiver to 7500Kc, so it could not have been a dropped zero.  She heard the repetitive morse code "A"s transmitted by Itasca, the prearranged homing signal which replaced the impossible request of AE of "a long voice count".

AE never successfully used her DF equipment, and to characterize her as being confused is being too kind.   HAG. 2201

***************************************************************

From Ric

And how would you describe her?
========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:12:35 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      The Rickenbacker incident

A newspaper article from 1942 says some of the people from the plane that ran out of fuel (wonder how that happened?) made it to a small island.  The island is not named.  All persons on board were ultimately accounted for. But did they all have their shoes?  There were no women on the plane.  None we know about!<g>

**************************************************************

From Ric

Wasn't there a book about their survival in a life raft?
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:12:45 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Noonan Project

In an attempt to get things moving again with regard to the Noonan letters, I have prepared a letter to send to M. M.  I will give you a copy when it is complete.

Jerry. . . How could I get another copy of the Noonan Chronology you gave out, or a current copy.  I just didn't think to make a copy when I gave it to J. P.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:14:25 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Heel dating

Oops!  It appears the Biltrite folks are pretty sure the pieces of shoe sole are from a woman's shoe.  And that does go with the heel.  Amazing what they can tell from the stitching.  So, although Gardner Island seems to have become the Grand Central Station of the South Pacific shortly after the disappearance, it's a little hard to explain a woman's shoe with an American made heel.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:26:38 EDT
From:         Wiley Rollins
Subject:      Goerner papers at Nimitz

This a.m. I got my first look at Fred Goerner's papers.  There are about 70 audio cassette tapes, three of which are labeled interviews with Joe Gurr - these I will copy when I go back to Nimitz.  No cassettes labeled interview with Lambrecht, however the tapes are poorly labeled and on some the two sides are used for different interviews.  This will require closer inspection.  There are 20 -11 by 14" envelopes stuffed with clippings and miscellany.  This also will require careful review.

There are 5 letter size file drawers containing Goerner's correspondence files arranged alphabetically.  There is an index for all of these which I am forwarding to you hopefully tomorrow.  Please note the index covers from letter d thr z, the copier I was using crashed.  I will complete the index copying next time.  Also, enclosed with the index I have included copies of an interview of Capt J.O. Lambrecht(from Lambrecht's correspondence file), interviews with Joe Gurr which are labeled as transcripts of the tapes, and a copy of one page of notes in the Noonan family correspondence file that mentions his car accident in Fresno.  No where in the Noonan family file did I find a photocopy of a traffic citation for this accident.  All of these copies should go out to you tomorrow.

I asked my chaperone "Herb" what he considered the proper way to reimburse the Nimitz museum for the copies and his time and he suggested that a small contribution to the museum would be nice.  Ric, what I would like to do is donate $100 to the museum, but do it TIGHAR's name.  If I forwarded the $100 would you make the donation?  This way I feel we will have unlimited access to any of Goerner's records.

Does TIGHAR have any other members close to here, I could use some help; however, being a widower I might have to locate a wealthy widow to help out.

Ric, more than anything I need your good advice to keep me focused on what is important and deserves priority.

Long message, I'll try to be brief in the future.

Wiley Rollins #2090

****************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Wiley.  I'll look forward to receiving what you've mailed.  It should help us focus our search.  Goerner, of course, primarily focused on the Japanese capture angle and I'm sure that most of his papers merely document his chasing of that phantom.  However, he did talk to some people who are no longer available (i.e. Lambrecht and Gurr) and it will be very interesting to see just what they said.

We will, of course, be happy to make the donation to the Nimitz Museum. That's an excellent and worthy idea.

I'm posting this to the forum not only to let everyone know of the good work you've done but to call for Texas volunteers to give you a hand.

Love to mother,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:53:36 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      No Mayday?

An interesting question, which may run the risk of being off-on-a-tangent:

Did AE transmit ANY sort of "Mayday" message, or anything to indicate they were landing, ditching, "going down," "going in"  or whatever?

If not, should we find this odd?  Or does it perhaps mean the Itasca had quit monitoring the frequency, by the time she may have gone down?

If not, does this even suggest the possibility of an inflight explosion? After all, we are considering an airplane with an awful lot of empty fuel space, just filled with fumes.

I hope this idea does not merely add to or generate confusion.  Has it been explored before?

73

Mike E. the Radio Historian #2194
***************************************************************

From Ric

It is, indeed, an interesting question and one which has always bothered me.

None of Earhart's known inflight transmissions to Itasca indicate imminent disaster.  In fact, her last copied message was made on her normal radio schedule and merely described (as best she could) where she was (on the line...), what she was doing (running on the line), and what she would do next to try to solve the communication problem (switch frequencies).  Her voice reportedly sounded hurried and anxious (I suspect mine would too) but not panicky.  All this argues strongly against the notion that she went down at sea due to fuel exhaustion within moments of that transmission and suggest, instead, that our calculations that she had another four hours of fuel remaining are more nearly correct.

The only other alleged (and it is VERY shaky) inflight message was reported by Fred Goerner as having been heard by Nauru on 6210 Kcs (the frequency she said she was changing to) at about noon Howland time when she should have had about a half hour of fuel left and could have been coming up on Gardner.  The message supposedly was "Land in sight ahead."  Goerner claimed that he saw this in a government file in 1965 that was later changed.  We have only his word and that of his colleague Ross Game to go on.  Fred is dead.  I don't know anything about Ross Game.

The only alleged post-loss transmissions from Earhart which contain distress calls are the messages supposedly received by Walter McMenamy and Karl Pearson the on the night following the disappearance.  They reported hearing SOSs repeated every fifteen minutes.

I see no evidence of an inflight catastrophe in any of this.  On the contrary. If it suggests anything it suggests a normal landing someplace.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:07:48 EDT
From:         unknown
Subject:      Fuel reserve

If Earhart's Electra had a five hour fuel reserve how far further could it have got in those five hours ?

***************************************************************

From Ric

When last heard from at 08:43 local time the airplane should have had about four hours of fuel remaining.  Best economical cruise was 24 inches of manifold pressure at 1600 RPM which yielded 38 gallons per hour at 10,000 feet at 130 knots.  In still air that would give her 520 nautical miles.  Wind could, of course, reduce or increase this distance.  A climb back up to 10,000 feet, or staying down low, would decrease the range somewhat.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:26:38 EDT
From:         Bill Zorn
Subject:      The Rickenbacker Incident

> Why was Rickenbacker in the Pacific in a B-17 and why did it crash?
> (I don't recall but I'm sure that the information is well known.  A B-17 in
> the Pacific sounds odd to 12 O'Clock High fans, but early in the war they were
> not uncommon out there.)

The Rickenbacher ditching is a interesting story all in itself, and a prime example of how two different people can see the same event, and come to vastly different conclusions. In some accounts, Rickenbacher is a hero and a saint. Others in the same raft called him a coward and a bully.

Rickenbacher was enroute to Australia to boost moral, and to deliver a message from Washington to general 'mac'. reportedly message was basically, shut up and quit the public whining that all the men and material are going to Europe.

The B17 was originally envisioned as a land based coastal defense and patrol aircraft, but the concept of bombing moving ships from thousands of feet was pretty well disproved by the middle of 1942. The B-24 was better suited to longer range operations.  Neither type appears in large numbers in the in the Southwest Pacific.

William H. Zorn
****************************************************************
From Gene Dangelo

Yes, there WAS a book about the Rickenbacker story, his autobiography, entitled "Rickenbacker."  I have the May 1969 Fawcett Crest Paperback of it. Edward V. "Eddie" Rickenbacker, the W.W. I Flying Ace, Race car Driver, Car manufacturer, and owner of the Indianapolis Speedway, wrote quite an extensive memoir, forty pages of which are devoted to his being lost at sea for 24 days. I bought the book in 1969 when I was in eighth grade, largely because our social studies teacher used to read installments of the story to us in class, and I was fascinated by the story. I recommend it highly!----Happy reading,  Gene Dangelo :)
***************************************************************

From Pat Johannes

The name of the book is "Seven Came Through."  Published by Doubleday, I think.

Pat Johannes
***************************************************************
From Steve

Air and Space, Aug/Sep 98 issue has an article titled "The Rescue of Eddie Rickenbacker."  According to the article three members of the party made it to an
island called Nukufetau.

The article also states part of the reason they ran out of fuel was because of an inexperienced navigator and a problem with the octant not being accurate cause of damage caused to it during a ground loop on takeoff.  This caused a miscalculation of the tailwind by about 20knots.

Steve
***************************************************************
From Ron Dawson 

Ric: via the article by W. David Lewis in Air & Space:Rickenbacker was on a mission for Secretary of War Henry Stimson. Douglas MacArthur had been openly critical of George C. Marshalls plan to invade North Africa, calling it a "wasted effort". Quoting:" Furthermore, given the admiration most Americans had for MacArthur, FDR Could not take away his command. There was not much Stimson could do about MacArthur, but he could at least try to muzzle his criticisms with a reprimand-though it would have to be done privately. Stimson decided he would not even put it in writing: instead he would find an emissary on whose discretion he could rely. Rickenbacker was ideal". Regarding the island in question, after almost three weeks in the water, three of the crew members, separated their raft from the other two, thinking they would have a better chance of being found separately. They washed up on the island of Nukufetau where natives summoned an English missionary who used a radio to summon "nearby American units". The same day the other two rafts were sighted by American planes out of Funafuti. One group was rescued by a PT boat, the other by a OS2U.
***************************************************************
From Vern Klein

>Wasn't there a book about their survival in a life raft?

There probably was.  Rickenbacker and two others spent something more than three weeks in the life raft.  The newspaper article says they were picked up about 600 miles from Samoa.  It doesn't say in what direction!  I'll see if I can locate such a book.  It might tell us what island the others made it to.  Neither does the article say how many they were.  One person died and was buried at sea.  The impression is that he was also in the raft, but that's not clear.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:31:45 EDT
From:         Kari Donaldson
Subject:      Last known aerial sighting

Could you please tell me where the last known aerial sighting was when AE was on her flight to Howland?

Also, could a native or another islander possibly found the shoes and worn them/or taken them to another island.  I thought you said the shoe sizes were 9-9 1/2 womens--which would have easily fit a small native man.  Maybe he decided that he didn't like them and threw them into the fire??

Kari
***************************************************************

From Ric

There were no sightings of Earhart's aircraft after it left Lae, New Guinea.

The size of the shoe we found on Niku and the size worn by Earhart was approximately a size 8 1/2 or 9.  Gilbertese islanders tend to have very large and especially wide feet.  Even today they rarely wear shoes at all.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:34:31 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Raiders of the Lost Lockheed

Tom King wrote:

>I think most "Feds" who saw "Raiders" chuckled at the
> final scene because it was so completely plausible.

Being a Fed, I thought the last scene was funny because it was SO implausible!  Tom: you must believe that the X-Files is a documentary series!
Randy Jacobson
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:36:35 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Re: More from Lundstrom

Tom Robison wrote:

> Here is another note from John Lundstrom, regarding the monograph he ...
>....The Last Flight of Frederick J. Noonan and Amelia Earhart"
>
> From Ric: .. He routinely states raw supposition as fact. It's clear that
> Weisheit has no training in historical investigation.  Garbage in, garbage
> out. His conclusions are invalid.

Thanks Ric, ...think I'll skip it, and save the $15.   RC  941
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:39:10 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Re: More from Lundstrom

Ric wrote:

>[Weisheit] routinely states raw supposition as fact. It's clear that
>Weisheit has no training in historical investigation.  Garbage in, garbage
>out. His conclusions are invalid.

Don't sugar-coat it, Ric. Tell us what you really think...;>)

Tom

***************************************************************

From Ric

Trust me.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:47:01 EDT
From:         John Bargerhuff
Subject:      Pelican

You all will have to pardon me for butting in on this mailing list after I've just joined - I'm sure that I'm not up to speed on the various topics being discussed but I can hardly stand this juicy little completely useless (?) coincidence.  Bear with me here please=85

In Ric's reply to Roberta Woods he mentions that the Pelican was at Gardner in April 1939 for aerial survey work and "If the Pelican was ever at Gardner after her visit in April of 1939 --- it had to be before May of '43."

Roberta's research into the history of the Pelican AVP-6, indicated that the boat was scrapped on the East Coast in November 1946.

From my notes gathered at the Archives last November, a USS Pelican, AMS-32 motor minesweeper was part of the support fleet for Project Sandstone at Kwajalein, arriving there 3 March 1948, then departing for Ailinglapalap, about 470 nm SE (towards Gardner).  Departed Ailinglapalap 16 May to return to Kwaj.

Different Pelican?  The Pelican II?  Was the Navy that short of bird names? And I know, Gardner's  more like a thousand miles from Kwaj- unfortunately, Ailinglapalap didn't even make my globe.  Given a month and a half between established dates however, it is conceivable that the boat could have visited Gardner.  Maybe this fact was completely irrelevent to the Sandstone report and therefore went unsaid?

Of course the only reason this might be even vaguely interesting is because Bob Russell was stationed on Kwaj in the spring of 1948 as part of Operation Sandstone.  Last fall Bob told us the story of witnessing a group of excited servicemen returning from a boat "excursion" (Bob thought it was a day trip) where they had seen twin engine plane wreckage on a "nearby island".

Even at 2 AM I can recognize that it's a huge stretch to fit this little curiosity into any existing theory. And again, I'm not up to speed on this topic involving the Pelican so I don't have any idea what role the boat may have played in this whole puzzle prior to 1948 or even why the Pelican was being discussed. I suspect a motor minesweeper is not the "small open boat" Bob described to us last year.

Anyways, them's my thoughts.

LTM

John Bargerhuff  #1448
****************************************************************

From Ric

No apologies necessary John.  This is interesting.  It is indeed hard to imagine that the Navy came up with another Pelican.  The "bird class" minesweepers/seaplane tenders were not replaced.  Betcha this is our old friend Pelican, still doing whatever needed doing.  Just the sort of boat for a jaunt down to the Phoenix Group.  Let's find out if she was really scrapped and go after her logs for the time of the Sandstone operation.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:49:28 EDT
From:         HAG
Subject:      AE and DF

>> AE never successfully used her DF equipment, and to characterize
>> her as being confused is being too kind.   HAG. 2201
>
> ***************************************************************
> From Ric
> And how would you describe her?

I hesitate to criticize someone who is not around to defend herself.  Ric already knows my opinion.   HAG 2201
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:59:34 EDT
From:         HAG
Subject:      Re: engine origins

Ric wrote:

> Let's back up for a second.  If there is a 1340 in the Kanton dump then it
> is the badly beat-up and corroded engine that Bruce found in knee-deep water
> on the reef-flat of an island in the Phoenix Group about 50 feet from shore.
> Regardless of whose airplane it came from, how does an engine end up in a
> place like that?

Maybe dumped from a supply ship that grounded on the reef?  HAG 2201

***************************************************************

From Ric

Okay.  What supply ship?  What reef?  No such incident is recorded as having occurred anywhere in the Phoenix Group.  Let's say it happened but went unrecorded.  Why on earth would a supply ship in the Central Pacific be carrying R1340 engines?  Let's say there is some reason we haven't thought of. Was the dumping one 1,000 lb engine enough to get the hypothetical ship off the hypothetical reef?  Why wasn't the reef littered with jettisoned cargo?  I don't buy it.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:03:58 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Loran vet aboard

Greetings Dick!  I hope you will enjoy the sometimes silly antics of this bunch! Ric says you were on Gardner right from the time of construction. Were you there early enough to see what that part of the island was like before the bulldozers had changed everything?  Did you perchance noticed a place that looked like someone had bivouaced overnight? <grin>  Maybe some of the first of you on the scene did just that!

One more... seriously... Do you have impressions of what the Loran equipment looked like and whether that piece of shielded cable (co-ax) seems like something that might have come from there?  I expect Ric has asked about that a long time ago, but I thought I ask again.

We're glad to have you on board as another of us who were there in those days! I was "there" in the time period, but not in the Pacific.
**************************************************************

From Ric

Just a note ... Dick has not seen the cables.  Our discussions with him preceded their discovery.  I can send him a JPEG picture of them if he'd like to see them.
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:28:47 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: campfire sites

Another clue to the location of the bones discovery, for what it's worth, is in the Kilts account, to wit:

"They were about through (with planting coconuts, seemingly) and the native was walking along one end of the island.  There in the brush..."

On the one hand, here we have the "native" referring to the place as an "end" -- or at least the Union reporter apparently quoting Kilts interpreting the "native" to refer to it as such.  On the other hand, we DON'T have anything indicating that the guy said "right here where you're taking down this station," or "right over there."  Nothing to suggest close proximity to the Loran station.

It ain't much, but there it is.

Tom King

****************************************************************

From Ric

Of course, we don't know where on the island Kilts was when this conversation took place.

We do know, however, that the place is described as being at "one end of the island."  How many "ends" does Niku have?  Good question.

I think that the comment that "they were about through" might be important in establishing the place.  We know that clearing and planting operations continued long after the bones were found.  we also have a pretty good handle on when the first bone, the skull, was found.  In December of 1940 Gallagher says that when he dug it up in October of that year, the skull had been "buried in damp ground for nearly a year."  That puts the date of discovery and burial sometime in late 1939.  What clearing work was "about through" at that time?  Certainly not work on the Aukaraime.

This needs more work.

LTM,
Ric
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:31:56 EDT
From:         Dave Bush
Subject:      Re: The Swan's Secret Mission

A lot of this does make sense, but remember, that this is still hypothetical and a lot of details are not included because we don't have exact written documentation to substantiate anything other than the Swan's presence.  We still need further study to find out exactly what occurred at Gardner. Did the Swan allow any shore leave?  This could be a source of the photos, but without some documents to support or refute, we still don't have anything here but conjecture.

Love to Mother,
Dave Bush
#2200
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:35:10 EDT
From:         Dave Bush
Subject:      Re: Find Swan crew

>Dave, If you would like samples of these mags. I would be glad to send you
>copies.

Jack:  Thanks for sharing the info on the reunion groups.  My interest was strictly to help find the surviving crewmembers of the Swan to see if any of them had any memories of the visit to Gardner.  Did they see the wreck?  Did any of them take the photo?  Do any of them have copies of that or other photos taken there at that time?  Did any of them take any souvenirs from the wreck if they saw it?  That was what I was seeking.  Several others have since mentioned the deck logs and muster rolls (Ric, I'm sorry, but only sailors like to eat these things, then only after very, very long voyages)are the best source for the crewmembers names, then another source has the names of those who died in combat or while aboard from any source, I would presume.  After that, you take the survivors and begin to track them down.  A reunion group would  possibly be quicker because they would already have done this type of leg work and  we would not have the redundancy for such a time consuming task.  I would be interested in the mags you mentioned.  You can send them to me at home.

Thanks!
LTM,
Dave Bush
#2200
========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:40:17 EDT
From:         Chester Baird
Subject:      Niku Visitors

I was just wondering if all other nations that have ocean going vessels have been ruled out? Could another nation (not necessarily military) have had vessels that could have stopped there and may be in records in other parts of the world?
LTM
Chester
2160

**************************************************************

From Ric

That's a tough one.  In general, nobody goes to Niku without a reason and the only nations with reasons were the Brits and the U.S.  But you can't prove a negative hypothesis.  We can't prove that nobody else ever went there and we certainly can't search the records of all nations' ships.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:27:56 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      Artifact 2-3-V-1 (Cables)

Very good thinking in regards to the cables.  They could very well have been used in the Loran Station.  But one correction, they are shielded cables, not coax cables.

LTM
Bob
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:34:04 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Raiders of the Lost Lockheed

Randy wrote:

> Tom: you must believe that the X-Files is a documentary
> series!

Nope, I just work half-time for the General Services Administration, which takes care of the government's stuff.

LTM
Tom King

****************************************************************

From Ric

Sort of interesting.  So the government employee who works for an outfit that sends stuff to be stored can't believe that it could get lost and the government employee who works for the outfit that stores the stuff can't believe that it wouldn't.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:44:27 EDT
From:         Dick Merrill
Subject:      Re: Goerner papers at Nimitz

Ric and Wiley, let me know if I can be of help in research at the Nimitz Mus. I live in Houston and will do what I can.

Dick Merrill

***************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Dick.  I'd suggest that you contact Wiley directly to coordinate efforts.  I'd also like to suggest that you join TIGHAR.  We generally like to have active researchers be part of the organization.
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:49:50 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Re: Raiders of the Lost Lockheed

Randy wrote:

>Being a Fed, I thought the last scene was funny because it was SO
>implausible!  Tom: you must believe that the X-Files is a documentary
>series!

What!!. Do you mean there AREN'T crates of historic stuff in musty old warehouses in D.C., just waiting to be rediscovered?

Damn! Another myth destroyed!

Tom #2179
(not Tom King, the renowned archaeologist)
***************************************************************

From Ric

Except I keep thinking about that partially scorched crate we saw that time in the back of that warehouse at the storage facility out in Suitland ......
========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:59:09 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Rickenbacker/Nukufetau

Nukufetau where some of the survivors of the Rickenbacker downed flight made it to shore is right next door to Funafuti.  Just a wee bit to the west. Both are southwest of Niku by quite a bit.  The NIKU III team know where Funafuti is!

***************************************************************

From Ric

Do we ever!  It would be interesting to know where Rickenbacker's B-17 departed from and where it is thought to have come down, and how far the guys in the one raft drifted to get to Nukufetau.