Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Betty's house  (Read 71830 times)

Gary LaPook

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2012, 03:32:57 PM »



Quote
It is also possible that Betty simply mistook the photo of the Stratosphere shown to her by TIGHAR for another, less expensive and less capable, Zenith radio. Zenith made over 40 models with prices from $20.00 to $750.00 and they incorporated similar visual features.

"In 1936, Zenith would take key features from the 1000Z and transfer them to their newest line of radios. The standout feature used on most of Zenith's 1936 radios was the large, easy to read, black "Magnavision" dial."

gl

I would bet highly on that prospect, much as I already stated. 

Which leaves the problem of how Betty could have gotten those signals the way Brandenburg says - which means that equation is more in question than 'Betty's house' and the attending features.  ???

And as I've already said - it's a strange world - I don't doubt she somehow got such signals on a 'lesser' radio.  Can't explain it - nor can anyone prove to me it 'can't happen' - just maybe not on the level of harmonic, etc. that we're speaking of.

The problem there is that Brandenburg's computation proves that the only way Betty could have heard Earhart was only on that one frequency, 24,840 kcs.
Quote

I believe Betty heard what she reported as faithfully as she could and accept that as fact.

LTM -
I do too, it's just that she is mistaken.

gl
Logged

Gary LaPook

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2012, 08:51:28 PM »

Here is a link to a youtube video showing a Zenith Stratosphere radio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDXDG-uoCrA


Look at it carefully, this is most likely the radio that Betty had.

Take another look at the video and stop it at the 54 second point and take a close look at the dial. You will see that this is NOT a shortwave radio, it has only one band, the normal broadcast band. Zenith marketing apparently used the name "Stratosphere" for several internally different models with different capabilities. Some of these radios had only 16 tubes but only the 25 tube, five band model, the $750 version, covered "band 5" which was necessary to hear Earhart on 24,840 kcs. I have attached two photos of the five band model, compare it with the radio in the youtube video and it should be clear to you how Betty could be fooled into making an erroneous identification.

Betty was simply led to identify the photo of a 5 band, 25 tube version of the Stratosphere shown to her by TIGHAR as her less expensive and less capable Zenith radio. Zenith made over 40 models with prices from $20.00 to $750.00 and they incorporated similar visual features.

Here are links to two other videos of very similar radios that could also have been mistaken by Betty, neither of which cover "band 5."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKo-l0fjeE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JotAzB0tE&feature=fvwrel

gl
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 12:19:07 AM by Gary LaPook »
Logged

Malcolm McKay

  • Read-only
  • *
  • Posts: 551
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2012, 09:43:05 PM »


I believe Betty heard what she reported as faithfully as she could and accept that as fact.

I have no way of knowing, as fact, that what Betty heard was indeed AE.

I do still believe there is some chance that it was - and frankly other reports hold more water for that argument to me anyway - especially the Pan Am DF reports.


I think that Gary as usual has made a valid point - also there is too much "belief" in this hypothesis and too little "proved". Essentially attacking Gary for pointing out certain verifiable data is nothing more than silly.
Logged

Monte Chalmers

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2012, 07:37:25 AM »

You saw where I was going with this.

Well, this was all immediately my conclusion  when I saw here place last month .  I wasn’t buying the high cost of the radio.  In fact, in one of the thread about Betty’s notebook  I commented that I also can’t accept the reception theory of a fourth harmonic.  I was an electronics instructor for many years which included transmitter design.  It is taught that transmitter design includes  suppression of harmonics for the obvious reason that any power that goes into them is wasted.  Also it is  taught that  power in harmonics diminishes  with each successive  harmonic - and only up to the 3rd harmonic warrants any consideration .  And here at TIGHAR the 4th harmonic is needed to come up with a frequency  with propagation qualities that fit.  And just like the story that the high-cost radio was made available because of  the Florida Power supervisor ,  the 4th harmonic was made available by faulty modification/service of the Electra transmitter. It is my opinion that Betty’s reception of Earhart falls under the heading of “miracle”.   That's possible, isn't it - I believe in miracles.
I’ve been accepting Betty’s notebook only because of the contents of that notebook. 
Monte TIGHAR #3597
 
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 07:56:23 AM by Monte Chalmers »
Logged

John Ousterhout

  • T4
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2012, 08:01:50 AM »

Didn't Betty say that her father went next door to try to hear the transmission on the neighbor's radio, which was a similar radio but without the extra antenna?  So, did the neighbor in this modest neighborhood also have an expensive 5-band Zenith?  This seems unlikely to me.
Cheers,
JohnO
 
Logged

Monte Chalmers

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2012, 09:35:31 AM »

Didn't Betty say that her father went next door to try to hear the transmission on the neighbor's radio, which was a similar radio but without the extra antenna?  So, did the neighbor in this modest neighborhood also have an expensive 5-band Zenith?  This seems unlikely to me.
Yeah, that's right.  But nothing was mentioned about it other than the neighbor had something that could receive shortwave - and it was put forth that the reason the neighbor didn't hear anything was that there was no outside antenna.

Gary:  Have you checked out Betty's address in 1941 at 1815 19th Ave South?  (She was there when she did the solo flying - also when she had the car accident and went to Mound Park Hospital).  It's just a mile from the old place going East.  Looks the same sort of place - not moving up, just a little bigger (the front looks like a converted porch that probably wasn't like that in 1941.  It might be they were not owner's but renter's  at the Auburn address.
Monte TIGHAR #3597
 
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 10:39:06 AM by Monte Chalmers »
Logged

JNev

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 778
  • It's a GOOD thing to be in the cornfield...
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2012, 12:11:41 PM »


I believe Betty heard what she reported as faithfully as she could and accept that as fact.

I have no way of knowing, as fact, that what Betty heard was indeed AE.

I do still believe there is some chance that it was - and frankly other reports hold more water for that argument to me anyway - especially the Pan Am DF reports.


I think that Gary as usual has made a valid point - also there is too much "belief" in this hypothesis and too little "proved". Essentially attacking Gary for pointing out certain verifiable data is nothing more than silly.

There is no 'attack' in my statement, but if Gary feels affronted somehow he's free to advise me of it.  I find that you continue to provoke unnecessarily by accusing me of 'attack'...  8)

You are entitled to your 'beliefs' - including agreeing with Gary, of course. :P

I gather you are speaking of the 'Betty's House' hypothesis - which is what this string amounts to.  It would not remain a 'hypothesis' if it were 'proven'.  Gary's position remains 'unproven' as well - which seems to be the core of said 'hypothesis' (this is a fairly narrow point in this string as far as I can tell).  In that sense I would fully agree with you - however tantalizing the tale gets here, it remains 'unproven'.

Gee, perhaps this really belongs in 'Alternate Hypotheses' now that I consider all that... ::)
- Jeff Neville

Former Member 3074R
 
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 12:19:20 PM by J. Nevill »
Logged

Gary LaPook

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2012, 03:38:13 PM »


Gary:  Have you checked out Betty's address in 1941 at 1815 19th Ave South?  (She was there when she did the solo flying - also when she had the car accident and went to Mound Park Hospital).  It's just a mile from the old place going East.  Looks the same sort of place - not moving up, just a little bigger (the front looks like a converted porch that probably wasn't like that in 1941.  It might be they were not owner's but renter's  at the Auburn address.
Yes I did and the house on 19 th ave is 1142 square feet, about the same size as the Auburn house, and Zillow has it appraised at about the same value. That is why Ma Klenck was so mad at Pa Klenck for blowing their life savings on a stupid radio because she wanted to get a better house with that money. :D Here is a photo of the 1815 19th Ave house.

gl
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 03:49:53 PM by Gary LaPook »
Logged

Gary LaPook

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2012, 03:40:06 PM »

Didn't Betty say that her father went next door to try to hear the transmission on the neighbor's radio, which was a similar radio but without the extra antenna?  So, did the neighbor in this modest neighborhood also have an expensive 5-band Zenith?  This seems unlikely to me.
Yep, that's what Betty said.......sixty years later. There is no other confirmation of her story. She didn't write that in her notebook.

gl
Logged

Gary LaPook

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2012, 03:46:58 PM »

You saw where I was going with this.

Well, this was all immediately my conclusion  when I saw here place last month .  I wasn’t buying the high cost of the radio.  In fact, in one of the thread about Betty’s notebook  I commented that I also can’t accept the reception theory of a fourth harmonic.  I was an electronics instructor for many years which included transmitter design.  It is taught that transmitter design includes  suppression of harmonics for the obvious reason that any power that goes into them is wasted.  Also it is  taught that  power in harmonics diminishes  with each successive  harmonic - and only up to the 3rd harmonic warrants any consideration .  And here at TIGHAR the 4th harmonic is needed to come up with a frequency  with propagation qualities that fit.  And just like the story that the high-cost radio was made available because of  the Florida Power supervisor ,  the 4th harmonic was made available by faulty modification/service of the Electra transmitter. It is my opinion that Betty’s reception of Earhart falls under the heading of “miracle”.   That's possible, isn't it - I believe in miracles.
I’ve been accepting Betty’s notebook only because of the contents of that notebook.
Adding to the "miracle" aspect of this story, none of the other claimed receptions occurred on 6,210 kcs, they were all on 3105 kcs. Since 24,840 is the 8th harmonic of 3,105, Brandenburg realized that no one would buy Betty having heard a signal on the 8th harmonic so he has Earhart, this one time only, transmitting on 6,210 so he could show Betty only having to hear a 4th harmonic signal.

gl
Logged

Monte Chalmers

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2012, 04:20:55 PM »

Yes I did and the house on 19 th ave is 1142 square feet, about the same size as the Auburn house, and Zillow has it appraised at about the same value. That is why Ma Klenck was so mad at Pa Klenck for blowing their life savings on a stupid radio because she wanted to get a better house with that money. :D Here is a photo of the 1815 19th Ave house.

gl
yeah - that's the house - orange  :D  But my thought was that since the move was only one mile for a house about the same size, it was not a convience issue.  They may have been tenants , and further supports it was not a Model 1000z.
Monte TIGHAR #3597
 
Logged

Gary LaPook

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2012, 04:22:11 PM »

Didn't Betty say that her father went next door to try to hear the transmission on the neighbor's radio, which was a similar radio but without the extra antenna?  So, did the neighbor in this modest neighborhood also have an expensive 5-band Zenith?  This seems unlikely to me.
Here are pictures of the next door neighbors' houses, 2021 Auburn and 2047 Auburn. Now which one of these neighbors do you think also had a twelve thousand dollar radio? (2012 dollars.)

gl
Logged

Monte Chalmers

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2012, 04:26:22 PM »

Adding to the "miracle" aspect of this story, none of the other claimed receptions occurred on 6,210 kcs, they were all on 3105 kcs. Since 24,840 is the 8th harmonic of 3,105, Brandenburg realized that no one would buy Betty having heard a signal on the 8th harmonic so he has Earhart, this one time only, transmitting on 6,210 so he could show Betty only having to hear a 4th harmonic signal.

gl
Your right about that, no way I would ever accept an 8th harmonic!
Monte TIGHAR #3597
 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 02:18:47 PM by Monte Chalmers »
Logged

Mark Pearce

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2012, 07:05:37 PM »


 It is my opinion that Betty’s reception of Earhart falls under the heading of “miracle”.
   

Betty herself said- 

"...this can't be happening!"

19:44 into this Nat. Geo. video-
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/07/120724-amelia-earhart-google-doodle-fred-noonan-115th-nation-science/

Logged

pilotart

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Re: Betty's house
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2012, 08:57:11 PM »

Quote
- it smells bad.
I think we can agree that if they 'splashed...' as Gary and a lot of other knowledgeable folks believe, ALL 'post-loss' radio reports are in error.

Until that fact is proven, I'm not ready to discount Betty's Notebook and her story.  What 'smells' to me is all this degrading by comparing an address in 2012 with what that neighborhood would have been like long before the Skyway, US-19 and I-275 were built.  I'm not saying they were in a 'High-Class' area, but I have no doubt that they could have had a Quality Radio.

This was what Ric posted about determining Betty's radio model:
Quote
...there is a possibility that she could have
heard AE on a Scott rather than on a Zenith.

Eric, NAS North Island, San Diego, Ca.
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Betty's father worked for the power company and, in those days, power companies were
eager to encourge consumers to buy electrical appliances to boost demand.  To that
end, they had very attractive arrangements with manufacturers which made it possible
for power company employees to buy new high-end appliances at bargain prices. 
Getting these fancy new products out into the neighborhoods was an effective
marketing strategy.

It is Betty's recollection that the radio was a Zenith.  A key element in her memory
is a cabinet stye that provided an opening in the front of the set below the tuning
dial and knobs.  She used to lie on her back with her head inside the alcove and reach
up to turn the tuning knob blindly, just cruising for something interesting.  That's
the reason she can't tell us for sure just where on the dial she found Amelia.
=========================================================================
I also don't think that Ric was making anything up about Power Company 'giving' employees expensive radios, but I can see where they would have had an 'employee purchase' program with manufacturers of appliances, the $750 Stratosphere 1000 had a "distributor's price" of $270 and the Power Company could get that price for its employees.  Ric was replying to Eric's question about Betty having a Scott, which was the radio that killed the Stratospheric.

The Scott would have been a much better choice and it could have had a similar console for Betty to relax under.  Its retail was under $200 and distributor costs ran 50-60% of retail in that price range and again the Power Company could have had it in the 'program'.

Unlike what Gary wrote, there were other radios available with those 'ultra short wave' bands available selling for under $200.  Zenith was just one quality brand and this is one of theirs @ $185 retail and Zenith's entire line of 15-tube models tuned 4 bands instead of the 3 offered in the 9 and 12-tube models.  The additional “ultra” band, as signified by the “U” in the model number, also adds a fourth shutter to the dial. All of the 15-tube sets can tune from 540kc-44,870kc.  (This "shutter" is why Gary thought that the Stratosphere in his video was the normal broadcast band only.)

There is no doubt that if I were the ghosts of those Coast Guard / Navy searchers defending why we discounted all those post-loss radio calls, I would want no one but Gary LaPook defending me. 8)
Art Johnson
 
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6   Go Up
 

Copyright 2019 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Powered by PHP