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Author Topic: News July 9 1937  (Read 61007 times)

Randy Reid

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2012, 07:33:20 PM »

I thought the ADF was for listening to my favorite tunes. Of course my flying days were way before Ipods and earbuds. ;D

Randy
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2012, 08:35:15 PM »


Raandy
Yeppers, tune tat baby in for the nearest AM or FM station and cruise right at it or away from it.
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2012, 08:50:45 PM »


For the non-pilot types among us
   NDB equals Non Directional Beacon, a radio wave being emmitted in a 360 degree pattern around the Antenna.  RDF equals RadioDirection Finder which used a loop antenna that could be rotated manually such that when the loop was at 90 degrees from the direction to the station a current in a location on the loop was cancelled by the current in the loop exactly opposite,thus causing a null, i.e. no signal.  An indicator in the cockpit pointed at the  station antenna.  The pilot could then alter course , taking bearings with the RDF until the indicator pointed in the nose direction meaning that you are flying to the station antenna.
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2012, 08:59:45 PM »


The ADF equals an Auomatic Direction Finder that took care of all the rotating and showed the direction to the station antenna on a dial readout on the instrument panel  Pilot just turned the plane until the needle pointed to zero, i.e. the nose position.  (Ya fly the plane in the direction of the needle relative to the nose position, it's called "flying the needle".

Ah so, Clever these electron types 8)
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Gary LaPook

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2012, 10:16:26 PM »


Raandy
Yeppers, tune tat baby in for the nearest AM or FM station and cruise right at it or away from it.
Only AM stations work with the ADF and RDF.

gl
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2012, 10:55:18 PM »


Gary
Thanks, GL.  You are, of course as usual, correct in that.  My bad
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2012, 08:07:31 AM »

And neither will indicate whether you are going toward or away from the station without the "sense antenna".
Woody (former 3316R)
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2012, 08:27:09 AM »

and as we've seen----there were communication breakdowns with the flight-------Ou would think that on a leg where communication was very important that she might have wanted a backup hand crank radio, or some other way of "talking". Even a morse key just making taps would be better than nothing---epecially since she guessed that Itasca would be looking for her. (When you go hiking or camping in the wild, do you have a whistle?)
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 08:32:22 AM by Tom Swearengen »
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2012, 11:26:24 AM »


Woody
Gary (GL) pointed out in a previous post (sorry that I don't remember the post location or number) that the AE RDF didn't have the forward/backward anomoly/

Certainly, no plane with an ADF that I ever flew (1977 on) had that problem.  I can't imagine trying to fly a NDB non-precision approach  in weather and trying to figger out whether the station is in  front of me or behind me.  just another complication that isn't needed at a critical time.
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LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2012, 11:48:28 AM »

You got that right. If I remember correctly, AE was to have been tested for instrument flight before the arround the world attempt but she did not do so. I think that would have included the use of radio navigation. I think that her comment about being too close to the station to detect the null at Lae may have been because of her limited knowledgeof radio navigation. In the states at that time the airways consisted of radio range stations that laid out the "highways in the sky". There was a"cone of silence" over these stations. See this reference for a very brief explanation of this system.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation  This site has several references for more detailed explanations.

For you younger guys who have only flown with the newer ADF's with digital tuners, when I started flying the ADF's had what was called a "coffee grinder" tuner. You had to manually tune in and identify the station using the sense antenna and switch to the loop when you were close enough for the loop to work. Great fun.
Woody (former 3316R)
"the watcher"
 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 01:14:05 PM by Clarence W. Herndon »
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2012, 11:53:14 AM »

Guys-----we cant think like its 2012-----or 1977. We have to take a time machine BACK to 1937---using their technology. Dark ages I know, but using todays stuff isnt going to figure out what SHE did.
As for Fred---take out the GPS, the TACAN, the XM weather, oh and the radio, and then navigate over the open ocean, under the clouds, and see how close YOU come to Howland. If you are that good, maybe we should buy the Electra that was on Ebay, outfit it EXACTLY like NR16020, and have the same radio communication problems that they had, and fly under similar conditions. Whose game? Harry? Gary? Not me---
Perhaps the best quote in Fred Goerners book came from Paul Mantz (supposedly)---the lae-Howland leg, "would like taking off fom my field here in Burbank, flying all nite with nothing to navigate by, calculate your drift, or take a star shot, and try to land on the 18 fairway on a golf course in New Jersey". I remember as a young man reading that than thought it was crazy.
Knowing what I know now------with all the problems, it was suicidal.
How many of you pilots out there fly a good distance without radio contact to someone". Oh yeah---you can nav by the ground and a map. Ok====try New York to the Virgin Islands---cloudy, nitetime, with maufunctioning radio, with just a compass. Anyone up for that?
Lets think about it-------
Tom
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2012, 11:58:16 AM »


Richie
Has nothing to do with then or now.  Before we deify AE consider this:
1. First woman to fly to 14,000 feet.   
I don't know how  she flew it but here's how I would:  Take off and "trim" my elevator (yes, they had elevator trim capabilities in 1930's) to a climb of. say, 1,000 feet per minute and sit back and monitor my progress for 14 minutes, voila 14,000 feet. a record.  Smile for the camera.  I wonder whether she had oxtgen along for the last 5 minutes?

If I couldn't  climb straight ahead for 14 minutes, then I would also"trim" my ailerons for a standard rate turn (360 degrees in 2 minutes) and sit back and monitor my progress as I "spiraled" up to 14,000 feet.
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LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2012, 12:08:03 PM »


Richie   (cont'd)
2. First woman to fly the Atlantic
She was a passenger, nuff said    She smiled for the cameras
 
3. First woman to fly from Hawaii to Oakland.
Let;s see, ya takeoff and climb to cruise altitude, pointing your plane East and when ya see that huge land mass(the North American continent) ya look for the SF Bay and land at Oakland.  Remmember to smile for the cameras.
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LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2012, 12:35:23 PM »


Tom
As far as your question about a whistle?  Yes, when I was younger and a Scout Leader (5 years, and 5 more as an Assstant Leader) I had a Whistle at all times not just on hikes and campouts.

And when I was White Water canoeing on the wild rivers of Wiscosin and Missouri I also had my Whistle, and a lot of other "survival" gear just in case.
And when I went wilderness fishing/canoeing in Northern Ontario and Manitoba and Saskatchewan I always carried my trusty Whistle and  the appropriate gear and "survival" gear, just in case.
No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2012, 12:41:50 PM »

me too---5 years as Scout Leader--Wood Badge etc. NEVER would  let anyone go anywhere without their whistles. Anoying though sometimes---sounded like the British troop in 'Bridge on the river Kwai"
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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