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h.a.c. van asten

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Flight 19
« on: June 26, 2011, 09:22:56 AM »

I thought that the ´Flight 19´ (Bermuda , Sargasso S.) incident has been solved fairly long ago : the formation leader had his watch off time and did not turn for air base in time for the given fuel store : All A/c ditched @ starvation .
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Flight 19
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2011, 11:27:53 AM »

Quote
I thought that the ´Flight 19´ (Bermuda , Sargasso S.) incident has been solved fairly long ago

Where did you get that information from?  You mean the theory that was proposed after they "supposedly" found them in the Atlantic do you?  If that is the case it was proven that the Avengers that they found were in fact not Flight 19.  That being the case it is still a mystery so it is not solved.

LTM,

Don
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Flight 19
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2011, 11:32:35 AM »

OOPS.  Probably should have posted a link.  This is quickest one I could find http://www.ufoera.com/articles/flight-19-not-found-the-mystery-deepens_1190310953.html

LTM,

Don
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Flight 19
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2011, 11:46:30 AM »

Best "Theory" I believe is this one... http://www.unmuseum.org/triangle.htm
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Flight 19
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 11:59:24 AM »

Mr. Van Asten I'm not sure I understand your question. There has been speculation over the years, but no proof, that the flight leader, Lt. Charles Taylor, had neither a watch nor a working clock in his aircraft, due to his frequent time check requests.

Now, I'm not a pilot, but I do know that one of the easiest ways to get lost is to go for an unknown amount of time in an uncertain direction.
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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h.a.c. van asten

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Re: Flight 19
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2011, 01:04:47 PM »

Yes that is what I have read on the subject about 1980-85 , most mysteries have simple solutions , only we do not know them . If an air navigator does not establish a DR position he is on the step of going astray , this becoming effective immediately if no synchro watch is available .
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h.a.c. van asten

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Re: Flight 19
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2011, 02:42:58 AM »

No , it was not about a finding back rumour , it was a documented research report based on the wing leader having no (own) watch on board , also recording how he forgot to take it with him .
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h.a.c. van asten

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Re: Flight 19
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2011, 02:16:51 PM »

All A/c of the wing were without integral watches , this was considered no problem since all pilots were estimated to have their own .
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Flight 19
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2011, 11:14:04 AM »

We can't say for sure if any of the Avengers had their clocks mounted. Neither can we say for sure how many of the pilots had watchs, or if they performed a time hack prior to take-off. None of us where there and surviving records are moot on both points.

However, remember when this happened - December 1945. The war had been over for some four months. Things weren't life-or-death anymore. A lot of guys were counting the minutes until they could get out. Kusche, in The Disappearance of Flight 19, said it was common for departing pilots to take an Avenger's instrument panel clock as a souvenir, and most of the training Avengers on the flight line at Fort Lauderdale NAS were clockless. Does that mean that all of the planes in Flight 19 were without clocks? No way of telling.

Same thing with the pilot's wristwatches. All naval aviators were issued a Hamilton Standard wristwatch. Many bought their own watch of a different brand as a backup. Flight leader Taylor's frequent requests for time checks and queries about the time on a given course certainly seem to indicate that he had neither a cockpit clock or a wristwatch - but we have no way of knowing. Surviving records and recollections cannot answer that question. It was far less common for the enlisted crew to wear wristwatches.

Did the pilots do a time hack (time synchronization) before taking off? Again, surviving records are moot on that point. Kusche's book does imply that the navigation flights were getting fairly casual by December 1945, so perhaps they didn't, and no note was made of the fact that Taylor didn't have a watch.

The odds are, with five pilots, at least one of them had a wristwatch. But can we be absolutely certain? No.

And I tend to agree with the school of thought that says, Even if the Avengers are found some day, it really doesn't answer any questions, especially WHY?. The only thing it will prove is that Close Encounters of the Third Kind got it wrong.  ;D
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« Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 11:22:09 AM by Monty Fowler »
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Vahe Demirjian

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Re: Flight 19
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2012, 02:32:16 PM »

A newly posted article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/12/28/flight-19-and-amelia-earh_n_2377908.html) raises the possibility that Flight 19 could be located using the advanced sonar technology used in the Niku VII expedition. To assist itself in finding the Avengers that went missing in the Bermuda Triangle, the US Navy could use a list of Avengers lost in accidents off Florida (keeping in mind that five Avengers found off Florida in 1991 aren't  those used in Flight 19) so that they don't make a case of mistaken identity.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Flight 19
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2012, 04:06:15 PM »

The article is misleading. Multi-beam sonar does not have sufficient resolution to pick up aircraft wreckage.

Besides, nothing could be more pointless than looking for Flight 19. It was a tragic but well-understood accident and there is no Bermuda Triangle.
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