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Author Topic: Betty's Notes  (Read 22232 times)

jack dunn

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Betty's Notes
« on: April 14, 2011, 06:58:54 AM »

These are just my thoughts on Betty's notes. I've used a bit of artistic licence. I think the the 'N.Y.' reference is actually 'MAYDAY'. 'MAYDAY' is an international distress signal adopted in 1927.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayday_%28distress_signal%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOS

TIME: 3.00

(158 mi.)

Help me                             (AE)

(W40K Howland port or WOJ
Howland Port)


Waters high                          (AE)
Hear put your ear to it            (AE)
This is Amelia Earhart Putnam   (AE)
This is Amelia Earhart Putnam   (AE)
SOS                                     (AE)    
Stop – Amelia                        (Noonan)
(Speak)

Ankle oh oh                                 (AE)
(crying now)
Help                                           (AE)
Help us quick                               (AE)
I can feel it                                 (AE)
Your right                                    (AE)
(Bob)  
Come here just a moment               (AE)

(58 338)

Send us help                               (AE)
Amelia take it                              (Noonan)
Hear it                                       (Noonan)      
Help help                                    (AE)
I need air                                    (Noonan)
Amelia things are bad                    (Noonan)
Here I come - oh                          (AE)
Let me out of here                        (Noonan)
Suffering different injuries               (AE)
Take it                                        (AE)  

(away)

Howland Airport                   (Noonan)
Mayday Mayday Mayday       (Noonan)
McKean McKean                  (Noonan)
Mayday Mayday                  (Noonan)
Oh, if they could hear me      (AE)  
Mayday Mayday                  (Noonan)
McKean                              (Noonan)
It's going                            (AE)

TIME - 4:30 - 5:10
        
Howland Airport                    (Noonan)  
McKean                               (Noonan)
Oh                                      (AE)  
where are you                       (AE)
waters knee deep – let me out (Noonan)  
where are you going?             (AE)
we can't bail out                   (AE)
see                                     (Noonan)
yes                                     (AE)
Amelia                                 (Noonan)
Yes                                     (AE)
Oh oh ouch                           (AE)
You are so scared                  (Noonan)
What                                   (AE)
Howland                               (AE)
This is Amelia Earhart              (AE)

(South 391065 Z or E    
fig 8 - 3. 30 500 Z                  all AE
3E MJ3B    
Z 38 Z 13 8983638)

TIME - 5:30 1 hr.    

hurry                                     (AE)  
(3.15)    
are you there Howland Airport    (AE)  
hear from me, hear from me       (AE)
George get the suitcase in my
Closet in California                    (AE)
are you there                          (AE)  
McKean here                           (Noonan)
McKean                                  (Noonan)
Amelia Earhart here                  (AE)    
watch that battery                  (Noonan)    
what did you tell me to do         (AE)    
SOS                                       (AE)
Will you help me                       (AE)
Will you please                         (AE)
all right!                                  (Noonan)




TIME - 6:00 - 6:15
  
what are you doing?                 (AE)
(3Q rd 36    
J 3)
   
Amelia here                               (AE)
quick let me out                         (Noonan)
(3630    AE)
knee deep over                          (AE)
stop                                         (AE)
I can't make it                            (Noonan)
(38-3)  
huh    
are you there?                            (AE)

(He had got out and she was getting ready to go too.)
(3)    
darn                                           (AE)

(She said a few cuss words and sounds like she was having trouble getting)

(water so high the plane was slipping)
(30)
                                           
Mayday                                    (AE)
Mayday                                    (AE)

Something that sounded like NY.
That was the last I could hear.

I also think that they thought they had landed on McKean Island, although they probably landed on Gardner Island.
There is clearly quite a bit of two way communications between AE and Noonan, then theres communication with the outside
world, also they seem to hear in incoming communications. Theres a lot going on. I'm ready for 'hub caps' in my direction.  
No doubt Betty missed quite a bit.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 10:28:21 AM by jack »
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Nancy Marilyn Gould

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 11:58:24 AM »

I understand how you could think the calls to "Marie" were actually "McKean", but how do you get "MAYDAY" from "New York"?  It doesn't even sound close.

I could also see how "Marie" and "MAYDAY" would sound similar.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 12:20:08 PM by Nancy Marilyn Gould »
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jack dunn

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2011, 12:51:41 PM »

Lets say the word was 'Mayday', maybe Betty's never heard of the word and has attributed 'N.Y.' because it's something she recognises. 
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h.a.c. van asten

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2011, 11:58:52 AM »

My knowledge of radio wave propagation says that it was impossible to  hear , intelligibly or not ,  signals from the Earhart A/c over such distances with the frequencies involved , let go their harmonics.
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Chris Owens

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 02:49:18 PM »

My knowledge of radio wave propagation says that it was impossible to  hear , intelligibly or not ,  signals from the Earhart A/c over such distances with the frequencies involved , let go their harmonics.

Your comment would be more helpful if you could point out the specific part of Bob Brandenburg's work on the topic that you find to be not credible.

Link from which you can find the papers: http://tighar.org/wiki/Brandenburg

Technical analysis of post-loss radio signals http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Research/ResearchPapers/Brandenburg/PLRSTechnical.html

Could Betty have heard on a harmonic: http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Research/ResearchPapers/Brandenburg/HarmonyandPower.pdf


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Chris Johnson

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 03:00:30 PM »

My knowledge of radio wave propagation says that it was impossible to  hear , intelligibly or not ,  signals from the Earhart A/c over such distances with the frequencies involved , let go their harmonics.

I'd be interested in your experience/background/knowledge? You've touched on these before but a fuller CV would be enlightening (sp).

Some of these 'harmonic' messages tie in with transmissions received in the pacific so their must be some correlation.

See post above for links to research.  Have you anything such as this to back your claim?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 03:06:59 PM by Chris Johnson »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2011, 05:15:38 AM »

I understand how you could think the calls to "Marie" were actually "McKean", but how do you get "MAYDAY" from "New York"?  It doesn't even sound close.

I could also see how "Marie" and "MAYDAY" would sound similar.

I too have a hard time getting New York or New York City out of MAYDAY.

"Marie" as MAYDAY is closer but the emphasis is on the wrong syllable - maREE versus MAYday.  Perhaps a better match is "Mary Bea," the name of Fred's new wife.  Given Fred's apparently irrational state, I can see him grabbing the mic and shouting for his wife.
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jack dunn

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2011, 06:45:07 AM »

Hi Ric

1) Betty says 'Something that sounded like NY.'
2) The 'Mayday' Distress Call was used internationally, it's got a specific format. Fred Noonan would have been trained
in the latest 'Distress Call' procedures whilst working for 'Pan Am', I've tried to find out if or when 'Pan Am' adopted that 'Distress Call'.
3) At the end of Betty's Notes, Earhart is heard saying something that sounds like 'NY', why would Earhart be saying
'Mary Bea', but a Distress Call makes sense.
4) Earhart (wasn't keen to learn new stuff) starts with S.O.S., but Noonan takes over with the latest international Distress Call
then later Earhart uses to call for help.       
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2011, 08:02:41 AM »

The 'Mayday' Distress Call was used internationally, it's got a specific format. Fred Noonan would have been trained
in the latest 'Distress Call' procedures whilst working for 'Pan Am', I've tried to find out if or when 'Pan Am' adopted that 'Distress Call'.

You didn't get the memo about "would have."  In historical research, "would" or "would have" is a guess masquerading as a fact. If you know that Noonan was trained in the latest distress call procedures, cite your source. Noonan's job at Pan Am was as a navigator.  The Clippers had dedicated radio operators. It's hard to imagine why a guy who was never on the radio was trained in distress call procedures.

At the end of Betty's Notes, Earhart is heard saying something that sounds like 'NY', why would Earhart be saying
'Mary Bea', but a Distress Call makes sense.

According to Betty, "Marie Marie" was aid by the man, not Amelia.  It is "Marie Marie" that might be "Mary Bea, Mary Bea."

Jack, please add your surname to your forum tag. We don't do anonymity here.

4) Earhart (wasn't keen to learn new stuff) starts with S.O.S., but Noonan takes over with the latest international Distress Call
then later Earhart uses to call for help.       
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2011, 01:00:20 PM »

I read somewhere (will find link and supply it later) that Friends and Relatives sometimes referred to Amelia as MeeLee, from the phonetic pronounciation of her name  Ah-Mee-Lee-Ah.  Perhaps the Marie  Marie in Betty's Notes was Fred calling out  or calling to  MeeLee  MeeLee?
No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 11:46:44 AM by J. Nevill »
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2011, 02:47:40 PM »

The link to Amelia's nickname MEE LEE or Meeley is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/amelia_earhart
The quote is:
"Earhart was named, according to family custom, after her two grandmothers (Amelia Josephine Harres and Mary Wells Patton).[8] From an early age Earhart, nicknamed "Meeley" (sometimes "Millie") was the ringleader while younger sister (two years her junior), Grace Muriel Earhart (1899–1998), nicknamed "Pidge," acted the dutiful follower.[10] Both girls continued to answer to their childhood nicknames well into adulthood.[8]"
No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 11:50:50 AM by J. Nevill »
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2011, 01:19:57 PM »


Jack
There are no references in Betty's Notes to Gardner Island.
There are five instances in which FN uses the term Mckean, presumably referring to Mckean Island.
Mckean Island would have been close to  the 157/337 LOP (in Betty's notes on the top of her page 2 she wrote the numbers 158 338).  It is about 350 miles from Howland, relatively flat, very attractive for a landing point, and closer that Gardiner.  By what stretch of the imagination would they have passed it up and proceeded to Gardner for a landing and never mention that in their Mayday transmissions?
No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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h.a.c. van asten

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2011, 01:44:51 AM »

Mayday , Mayday ,  instead of communicating your latitude @ noon and your longitude later the same day ?   
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John M Kirk

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 02:59:44 PM »

Please keep an opened mind..
Read Betty's notes with the thought of trying to locate the parachutes, moving around inside the plane ("watch that battery") and and trying to jump out of the plane.
"Waters High" (water too high on reef to land, as seen from the air)
"Bail Out" (jump from plane, not bail out the water in the plane)
"Need Air" (possibly speed or altitude)
"I can feel it" (looking for chute)
"Amelia take it" (only one chute, Fred giving Amelia chute)
"quick let me out" (maybe Fred was trying to jump or jumped)
"darn" (possibly too late to jump)

Is there any mention/reference from Betty "when interviewed" about the noise level (engine sounds)?
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Brad Beeching

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Re: Betty's Notes
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2012, 09:29:09 AM »

Well Mr. Kirk, That is an interesting interpetation of "Betty's Notebook". However, your proposal seems to have not taken into account several factors. If you will look at entry  #52130KK in the Brandenburg signal catalog you will see that the general consensus is that the 'Betty" transmission took place on July 5th. If it were our intrepid duo preparing to "bail out", they sure took a long time to accomplish the task as the "Betty" transmission took place over an hour's time from about 4:30 pm to about 6:15 pm Florida time. Given those parameters a person would have to ask "If they had enough fuel to stay in the air from July 2nd to July 5th, why not fly to California?" But if Betty really heard Amelia on the 2nd instead of the 5th, then she bailed out about 30 minutes after she took off from Lae. See the Chater Report for reported take off time.

Brad
Brad

#4327R
 
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