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Author Topic: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream  (Read 430390 times)

Randy Conrad

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #165 on: August 21, 2012, 03:24:19 PM »

Dave, sorry hadn't gotten back to you on your question. Been doin some research on this matter. Anyway, here goes the story on what I did over the weekend. I sat at home the other night contemplating if this was indeed Amelia's jar...how long would the material last inside? So I went back to the antique store where I found the jar box and found an old cream jar...similar to the one Pond's used. Now, the cream inside to about a half inch from the top was dried and crusted. However, I sat it in a can and lit the dried cream. Guess what...it took right off. However, just like that of a candle, it eventually melted and turned to oil. Soon, the flame went out and I had white stuff on the bottom of the jar. Anyway, likely scenario at 105 degrees in July, the cream if left in the jar would have turned to oil and ran out...and of course if it got wet it wouldnt be no good anyway...Cause oil and water don't mix.
     Anyway, here is what I think happened. Jeff just emailed me and informed me that they found scratches at the bottom of the jar. This jar might have been used to drink from..eventually after major cleaning...per say!!!1 Whoever used it might  have also used it to eat out of? So a jar of that size has alot of value to it. To drink out of it...you would first have to boil water and then drink it. It you're boiling the water, and you have coffee then you can drink that or tea whatever is at hand. Anyway, with the scratches indicated someone desperately wanted something out of the that jar. So it would indicate something metallic or sharp to eat with. Possibly a fork or spoon or handmade device. Also, we know the jar was in several pieces. We can all say that whatever the sharp pieces were used for were to cut something with. Anyway, if the jar did have cream in it...it wouldn't last long...but its value was important on that island, despite who it might have belonged too. Still searching...Thanks Dave and Alan for timeline on ad and jar.!!!! Its been alot of help!!!!
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Randy Conrad

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #166 on: August 21, 2012, 11:24:31 PM »

The following pictures are of the fragmented freckle cream jar. These pictures are mostly from the bottom of the jar, which also indicates the Hazel-Atlas logo stamp!!! These pictures were taken from Joe Cerniligia this afternoon!!!
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Randy Conrad

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #167 on: August 21, 2012, 11:27:14 PM »

More pictures.....
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Randy Conrad

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #168 on: August 21, 2012, 11:35:53 PM »

More pictures including the jar inside the box!
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Randy Conrad

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #169 on: August 21, 2012, 11:48:18 PM »

The Jeff I was referring too this afternoon was Jeff Cerniglia. I had asked him the question in regards to the photos shown. Does the jar have a beveled bottom edge in the middle...Really unique.  Also, it is very slightly rounded un the interior, cupped as it were. I mean on the edge of the interior. The bottom of the intereior, Anyway, look forward to see more
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Adam Marsland

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #170 on: August 22, 2012, 01:37:09 AM »

Adam, nobody may have left it. The ocean is full of trash.

Eh, now that I don't really buy.  It was found because it was with a lot of other items associated with the fire feature.  I suppose it may have been scavenged from the beach, though that seems a rather facile explanation to me.  But if so, it's back to where we started, as an item that seems to have been used by person X.  So as Earhart evidence, it actually goes right back in under that theory....though not as something she carried with her, but found and used according to the available evidence. 

If the dating is right I think there's a little bit more evidence accumulating towards a pre-Norwich City castaway.  We have your tentative dating, we have Gallagher's impression of the site, and IIRC we had some anecdotal account of evidence of a castaway in the early '20s, though I don't recall where I read this (but it was recently, here).  There's the makings of an alternate theory there that hangs together to me.  But the idea that it just washed up and found its way to the site seems a bit too facile.  And if it was scavenged, then AE or a hypothetical Norwich City castaway would be the most likely culprits, seems to me.

Kudos, though.  Seems like really good work all 'round.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 01:40:50 AM by Adam Marsland »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #171 on: August 22, 2012, 05:43:16 AM »

The Jeff I was referring too this afternoon was Jeff Cerniglia. I had asked him the question in regards to the photos shown. Does the jar have a beveled bottom edge in the middle...Really unique.  Also, it is very slightly rounded un the interior, cupped as it were. I mean on the edge of the interior. The bottom of the interior, Anyway, look forward to see more

Cerniglia's first name is "Joe," not Jeff.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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dave burrell

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #172 on: August 22, 2012, 06:31:41 AM »

Well adam there might have been a previous castaway who knows. I am pretty positive this particular artifact isnt AE.
If you go back to the shoe heels to the airplane skin there is something found that years later is discredited. From 1991 to 1998 it was the airplane skin. Tighar tracks for years 100% said they were certain it was relevant. It wasnt.
This jar is like that, but was found out to be irrelevant sooner thats all. Glad I could help.
After one item tighar had been touting was shown to be not related, Rick said something true and its printed in tighar tracks. He said paraphrase" we have to follow the truth even if it contradicts our earlier ideas"
I couldnt have said it better myself and speaks of honesty.
So stick a fork in the freckle cream guys, like a string of artifacts before this one did not pan out. No shame in that. Just got to keep looking

« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 06:34:47 AM by dave burrell »
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #173 on: August 22, 2012, 10:37:30 AM »

Adam and Dave,
Those accounts of possible ‘alternate’ castaways on Gardner Island are found in two articles published in 1924 and 1929 in the Auckland Star newspaper.
------------------------------------------------------ 
October 10, 1924, [page 9].
"The Phoenix Group"
"Isolated Pacific Islands"

“Somewhere about six hundred miles to the nor’west of the mandated islands of Samoa are the low-lying coral islands of the Phoenix Group…  Gardner is the most southerly island, and as our ship nosed up to the anchorage, she was greeted by swarms of sharks…  The island, unlike other coral islands of the Pacific, was heavily wooded by tall and stately trees, the timber of which, when polished, closely resembles mahogany.  A dilapidated shack told of a probable castaway…”

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=AS19241010.2.101&srpos=26&e=--1900---1938--50--1----2gardner+island--
==============================
Auckland Star, December 2, 1929, page 7

Aucklander’s Memories

“Gardner Island is well known to Captain William Ross, Auckland’s veteran mariner, who was ashore there 30 years ago, when he landed Mr. George Ellis, of Auckland, so that a survey might be made with view to establishing a coconut plantation…"

“…Many vessels were wrecked on Gardner Island in the old days, the survivors dying lonely deaths. Captain Ross found mounds above the graves of sailors when he visited the island 30 years ago, but the skeleton of the last to die was nowhere seen..."

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=AS19291202.2.50&srpos=8&e=-------50--1----0%22gardner+island%22+wreck--
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Kevin Weeks

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #174 on: August 22, 2012, 11:01:24 AM »

Adam and Dave,
Those accounts of possible ‘alternate’ castaways on Gardner Island are found in two articles published in 1924 and 1929 in the Auckland Star newspaper.
------------------------------------------------------ 
October 10, 1924, [page 9].
"The Phoenix Group"
"Isolated Pacific Islands"

“Somewhere about six hundred miles to the nor’west of the mandated islands of Samoa are the low-lying coral islands of the Phoenix Group…  Gardner is the most southerly island, and as our ship nosed up to the anchorage, she was greeted by swarms of sharks…  The island, unlike other coral islands of the Pacific, was heavily wooded by tall and stately trees, the timber of which, when polished, closely resembles mahogany.  A dilapidated shack told of a probable castaway…”

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=AS19241010.2.101&srpos=26&e=--1900---1938--50--1----2gardner+island--
==============================
Auckland Star, December 2, 1929, page 7

Aucklander’s Memories

“Gardner Island is well known to Captain William Ross, Auckland’s veteran mariner, who was ashore there 30 years ago, when he landed Mr. George Ellis, of Auckland, so that a survey might be made with view to establishing a coconut plantation…"

“…Many vessels were wrecked on Gardner Island in the old days, the survivors dying lonely deaths. Captain Ross found mounds above the graves of sailors when he visited the island 30 years ago, but the skeleton of the last to die was nowhere seen..."

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=AS19291202.2.50&srpos=8&e=-------50--1----0%22gardner+island%22+wreck--

wow, Mark I have not read this article before! very interesting. Is this something that I have missed and Tighar has seen in the past?? What i also found very interesting was the canadian-australian mail ship passed between hull and gardner regularly makes me wonder how many other ships passed fairly close by. the closer ships come the more chance you have of random trash washing ashore.
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Matt Revington

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #175 on: August 22, 2012, 11:26:03 AM »

Yes very interesting articles. Is there part of the article about Capt Ross missing?  I don't understand what is meant by "the skeleton of the last to die was nowhere seen...".  Did he dig up the most recent mound and find it empty or was something cut out.   This Ross was being interviewed in light of the NC wreck and was speaking of his visits 30 years or so before that time so any castaway/skeleton he was referring to would have been there in the mid 1890's at the latest.  The dilapidated cast away shack in the 1924 story is much more interesting as it comes closer to probable dates for the Dr Berrys (or velvetine ) jar and  the skeletal remains would be more likely to be found in 1940. 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 11:35:17 AM by Matt Revington »
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dave burrell

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #176 on: August 22, 2012, 11:34:07 AM »

Time to rethink some things? The bones, the artifacts,burial mounds, it seems this place has god knows how many castaways and their junk.
WOW.
Mark, as one newbie to another. Nice dang research job!!!!
Amelia may be offshore, but my opinion, which means squat to people doing this for decades, is the land search is compromised severly.
Just too many stories of bodies, castaways, junk,hurricanes, villagers.
IMHO, all the physical evidence is weaker now.

« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 11:50:30 AM by dave burrell »
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Kevin Weeks

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #177 on: August 22, 2012, 11:42:59 AM »

Yes very interesting articles. Is there part of the article about Capt Ross missing?  I don't understand what is meant by "the skeleton of the last to die was nowhere seen...".  Did he dig up the most recent mound and find it empty or was something cut out.   This Ross was being interviewed in light of the NC wreck and was speaking of his visits 30 years or so before that time so any castaway/skeleton he was referring to would have been there in the mid 1890's at the latest.  The dilapidated cast away shack in the 1924 story is much more interesting as it comes closer to probable dates for the Dr Berrys (or velvetine ) jar and  the skeletal remains would be more likely to be found in 1940.

my understanding of that was someone from the shipwreck has to be alive to bury the dead, then when there is only one person left alive there is no one to bury them. meaning the skeleton would be exposed.

edit: that dilapidated shack with skeleton is quoted as being from canton island, not gardner.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 12:12:48 PM by Kevin Weeks »
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #178 on: August 22, 2012, 12:42:05 PM »

"...A dilapidated shack [that] told of a probable castaway…”, was found on Gardner Island, circa 1924.

"...the bleached remains of a human skeleton, housed in an old shack...", was found on Canton Island. 

The bones of either the "probable castaway", or Capt Ross's un-seen "...last to die", circa 1899, can easily explain Gallagher's discovery in 1940. Maybe they were one and the same? 
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Kevin Weeks

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #179 on: August 22, 2012, 12:47:49 PM »

"...A dilapidated shack [that] told of a probable castaway…”, was found on Gardner Island, circa 1924.

"...the bleached remains of a human skeleton, housed in an old shack...", was found on Canton Island. 

The bones of either the "probable castaway", or Capt Ross's un-seen "...last to die", circa 1899, can easily explain Gallagher's discovery in 1940. Maybe they were one and the same?

ahh yes. the "dilapitated shack" may well have been the tin roofed leftover from the coconut plantation

well, I'm not sure. Has the sextant box #'s been able to date the castaway to a certain date period?? I thought they were calling them surplus wwi sextants but I cannot be sure off the top of my head.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 12:53:48 PM by Kevin Weeks »
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