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Author Topic: Patch Analysis and Electra Integrity  (Read 1487 times)

Randy Conrad

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Patch Analysis and Electra Integrity
« on: March 16, 2019, 02:39:40 AM »

Its late and like most Earhart enthusiasts and researchers we find these late hours and nights as ways to fuel our desire of wanting to know the what if's and the what not's. After reading Ric's recent update of the patch analysis and film scanning...its like sneaking under the Christmas tree Christmas morning wanting to know what you got. The anticipation... the long await. That's what it feels like!!! The excitement!!! and finally the answer we've all been waiting for. After reading his followup update...it leaves me wandering how much structural damage did the Electra suffer when she ground looped in Hawaii. What drives me to curiosity is did the back two windows suffer damage or pop out when she came down hard. Another thing that I'm led to believe after reading Ric's update is the elusive patch served as an emergency exit the second time when she landed at Gardner Island (Niku). If this be the case, it would have served as a fast means of exiting the plane had the tail end of the Electra landed in water, and the plane door on the other side of the plane was badly damaged! After reading excerpts from Betty's notebook....you wander if this is true beings how Fred was in a panic to get out of the plane. All you had to do was one swift kick and the patch would fall off the plane. If the patch pans out to be a true piece of evidence and history in the making...we all have to take this as our elusive smoking gun. Like many...we may never know exactly what became of the plane...but we have documented evidence to prove that she indeed landed there if the patch is the one item that came off the Electra. In regards to the person who filmed Amelia at Lae...they are exactly right....Landing on Howland would take alot of skill and knowledge...Landing on Gardner Island (Niku) was luck and guts. As for those that have the theory that she was taken captive by the Japanese...I highly believe that to be untrue. If the Americans couldnt find her...how in the heck did the Japanese find her! The stories from the rescue of the Norwich City crew, and those of you who've been to Niku for days...leaves no doubt that Gardner Island was no picnic area. It may be a tiny atoll or reef, but it also served as a grave yard. I'm really excited for Ric and Jeff in the coming days. It might end the final chapter or the start of a new journey. Anyway...need to hear more from all you guys out there...Good Luck Ric and Jeff!!!
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Patch Analysis and Electra Integrity
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2019, 08:16:01 AM »

it leaves me wandering how much structural damage did the Electra suffer when she ground looped in Hawaii.

The damage is well documented in photos and the Lockheed repair orders.

What drives me to curiosity is did the back two windows suffer damage or pop out when she came down hard.

No, they did not.

Another thing that I'm led to believe after reading Ric's update is the elusive patch served as an emergency exit the second time when she landed at Gardner Island (Niku). If this be the case, it would have served as a fast means of exiting the plane had the tail end of the Electra landed in water, and the plane door on the other side of the plane was badly damaged!

There was a hatch over the pilot's seat.

After reading excerpts from Betty's notebook....you wander if this is true beings how Fred was in a panic to get out of the plane. All you had to do was one swift kick and the patch would fall off the plane.

One swift kick wouldn't do it.  Even if the bottom edge failed due to flexing of the weakened empennage, the other edges remained firmly riveted ti the aircraft.  It's looking more and more like Earhart and/or Noonan removed the patch, probably to increase ventilation, but it was not an easy process.
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Patch Analysis and Electra Integrity
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2019, 04:58:17 PM »

I think the need to make new openings is a lesson they learned by being in the plane with the cabin door open and then closed.
Getting good ventilation in the cockpit was probably limited by the combined area of the cockpit window and hatch openings. See “Stack effect”
For best results in achieving this effect the outlet should be the same size or bigger than the inlet.
In the case of the Electra the air outlets would be the cockpit windows and hatch because they are higher.  The cabin door, which is lower, would be the inlet.  I estimate the combined cockpit openings  to have less area of the cabin door. If the cabin door was already and always fully open, making another opening in the lavatory would probably not do much to help conditions in the cockpit. Maybe even make it worse. A partially opened cabin door would probably get better ventilation.  Of course if they knew or learned this is unknown. Unknown wind and positioning could cause other effects that effected the airflow too.
However if they had to close the cabin door for concern of water getting to the transmitter then I think the loss of air movement in the cockpit would be immediately noticeable once they closed it. Once the cabin door closed there was zero lower inlet air and no chance for a stack effect. Based on the waves and splashes that may have been a concern during higher tides this may have been a repeated  and painful lesson, if they hadn’t already learned if from earlier in the flight. IE it feels better in here when the cabin door is open but now we have to close it so what can we do?
3971R
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Patch Analysis and Electra Integrity
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2019, 08:37:04 AM »

However if they had to close the cabin door for concern of water getting to the transmitter then I think the loss of air movement in the cockpit would be immediately noticeable once they closed it. Once the cabin door closed there was zero lower inlet air and no chance for a stack effect. Based on the waves and splashes that may have been a concern during higher tides this may have been a repeated  and painful lesson, if they hadn’t already learned if from earlier in the flight. IE it feels better in here when the cabin door is open but now we have to close it so what can we do?

High tide was running about .7 meter (2.29 ft) assuming calm water on the reef (which seldom happens).  Leaving the cabin door open would not be a good idea. Getting rid of the patch looks like a good option.

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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Patch Analysis and Electra Integrity
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2019, 09:50:46 AM »

Ric et al

I don't see AE and Fred hacking out the patch unless they were absolutely sure that the aircraft was no longer flyable.  That means by the time they might have hacked out the patch, some significant damage had already occurred.  Most likely to me is the collapse of the left landing gear. For the radio signals to keep coming, the right engine needs to be out of the water and operable in order to recharge the batteries.

Now do your tidal analysis with the left gear collapsed.  The door on the left side would be further into the water and ever more unusable.  All the more reason to hack out another hole for ventilation.

amck
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Bill Mangus

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Re: Patch Analysis and Electra Integrity
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2019, 10:10:41 AM »

Ric,

I recall you writing somewhere, probably in the 2-2-V-1 thread, that you thought some of the bends/distortions in the artifact appear to, or could have been made by someone kicking the patch, probably repeatedly.

Given what's seen in the frames from the new film you've posted, does that idea still hold?
Bill Mangus
Researcher #3054SP
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Patch Analysis and Electra Integrity
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2019, 10:26:38 AM »

Given what's seen in the frames from the new film you've posted, does that idea still hold?

What we see in the new imagery is buckling on the patch. Cutting stringers to install the window weakened the tail structure and allowed the empennage to flex.  Earhart's hard landing in Miami caused the tail to flex and probably cracked the window.  The patch that replaced the window was also eventually damaged by the flexing of the empennage, causing the buckling we see.

The dents on the inside surface of the artifact appear to have been caused by striking with a tool. 
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Leon R White

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Re: Patch Analysis and Electra Integrity
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2019, 12:53:13 PM »

Have we discarded the possibility that the natives either before, or unbeknownst to other might have scavenged parts of the plane? I can imagine that wrecks like the ship or the plane would be prized 'finds' for the native villagers.  I haven't found any extensive discussion other then it was suggested that gilbertese had made wooden objects decorated with aluminum bits.  If Fred died first, and Amelia was buried, who buried her before Gallagher's group found her?

thnks
Leon
Associate Dean of Camel-in-Cloud Studies at University of Ovahtheyah
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Patch Analysis and Electra Integrity
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2019, 01:50:53 PM »

Have we discarded the possibility that the natives either before, or unbeknownst to other might have scavenged parts of the plane? I can imagine that wrecks like the ship or the plane would be prized 'finds' for the native villagers.  I haven't found any extensive discussion other then it was suggested that gilbertese had made wooden objects decorated with aluminum bits. 
See "Catch of the Day" pages 12 and 13, TIGHAR Tracks

If Fred died first, and Amelia was buried, who buried her before Gallagher's group found her?

Amelia wasn't buried.
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