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Author Topic: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198  (Read 87702 times)

Kurt Kummer

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2016, 07:08:28 PM »

If the researcher used one of the National Archives' microfilm readers in San Bruno to take the image of the map it's understandable that an edge or two were cut off.  The microfilm readers are VERY cumbersome to use. 
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Arthur Rypinski

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2016, 08:18:33 AM »

The extents of the Murfin map are also interesting.  Starting with 528, it has been extended west to cover the Marianas (i.e. Guam), it already includes Wake, and it probably includes Midway. I can't see Midway on the image, but Midway is 28.2 degrees North, so it ought to be there.  Why the map was extended from the equator to 2.5 south is a puzzle.  I was thinking Canton Island, but Canton is 2.8 degrees South.  However, Tamana Island, the southernmost island in the Gilbert chain, is at exactly 2.5 degrees South.

Keep in mind that in 1937, OP-20-G was just beginning to deploy HF/DF stations in the Pacific, so the Murfin map might be a plotting chart for HF/DF, or it may be the very first aviation chart of the Pacific. It would be interesting to look in the 1939 version of Hydrographic Office catalog and see if there is a new aviation chart listed.   

adr
adr
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2016, 08:44:31 AM »

If it was an HF/DF plotting chart it was probably not commercially available to Noonan. If it's an aviation chart it probably would be, and an obvious choice for Noonan.
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Arthur Rypinski

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2016, 10:50:08 AM »

and covered the region.   So, generally, there were no aviation charts covering the Central Pacific, and if there were, they would contain pretty much the same information as the nautical charts.  Overseas nautical charts were available from the Navy Hydrographic Office, or which we have a 1935 catalog, and from the British Admiralty.  Lets focus on the Hydrographic Office for now. 

Noonan's chart problem was that his route ran along the equator, and the equator was the seam between "North Pacific" and "South Pacific" for HO nautical charts.  In addition, it would take days to steam across an HO chart, but only hours to fly across one. Both the North Pacific and South Pacific areas were divided into a series of West-to-East sheets.  Lae was probably on HO 824a or HO 825.

The route stayed South of the equator from Lae to the northern Solomons  to USS Ontario (3 degrees S), to the southern Gilberts (Tabituea, 1.3 degrees S), and I would think that Noonan would use a South Pacific chart for that part of the trip.  Howland, of course, sits just north of the equator (0.8 degrees N), but the route only crosses the equator roughly mid-way between the Gilberts and Howland.  Jarvis is 0.4 degrees South, and is included on HO 528 with a border bulge.

So, if Noonan was using a "South Pacific" HO chart for the last part of the flight (HO 825?), the chart would probably show the Phoenix Islands.  I can't be sure, because I don't know where the longitude of the boundaries between the various South Pacific sheets.   Also, Noonan may have cut and stitched the North Pacific and South Pacific sheets together, and chopped off or folded away some the places he never planned to visit.

HO 528 would be good for the never-flown Howland-to-Honolulu leg, but, is, I think problematic for the final flight because it doesn't show the southern Gilberts.  The Murfin Map shows the Gilberts, but I think Noonan would want a South Pacific chart to get to the Gilberts, and we don't know how far East that South Pacific chart extends. 
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Arthur Rypinski

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2016, 07:17:27 PM »

to all-

This ridiculously overpriced Ebay item is a good analogue to the Murfin Map.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HAWAII-CALIFORNIA-COAST-WWII-PACIFIC-THEATRE-NAVY-PILOTS-FLIGHT-CHART-POSTER-/142124973391?hash=item21174efd4f:g:S8kAAOSw~OdVdvi6

Like the Murfin map, this chart is an an HO product that uses a mercator projection with closely spaced lat/lon lines and no soundings.    Unlike the Murfin map, it has magnetic iso-declination lines and various navigation aids in purple overprint.  It is described as a "Pacific Airways Plotting Chart," 2nd Edition, dated 1945, with a number VR-201.  There is a small index map  to other numbered Pacific Ocean VR charts in the lower left corner.  The other circa 1945 VR charts don't cover the same area as the Murfin Map.

So, I suspect that the Murfin Map is a first generation aviation plotting chart that was subsequently replaced by the more elaborate set of charts shown on the index map.   While it obviously existed and was in use in 1937, it is not yet clear whether or not the Murfin Map was published and made available to the general public.

adr

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Arthur Rypinski

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2016, 05:15:14 PM »

To all-
I have acquired a paper copy of the March 1939 edition of "General Catalog of Mariners' and Aviators' Charts and and Books."  Unlike the digital copy hosted by the Hathitrust, the paper copy has large folding index maps bound into the back of the book, showing the coverage of the charts sold by the Hydrographic Office. 

--The Hydrographic Office, part of the U.S. Navy, limited itself largely to foreign charts.  Domestic charts were published by the Coast & Geodetic Survey. 

--Foreign governments, especially the UK, had their own chart services.  It is apparent that there was extensive copying between governments, so that U.S. and British charts were frequently identical.

--In 1939, the Hydrographic Office did not publish any plotting charts for public sale like the Murfin Map, nor the meteorological and great circle plotting charts that we find from other sources.  The evidence is clear that the HO made such charts for internal use.  The HO did publish "plotting sheets" for each 10 degrees of latitude, suitable for navigators to mark up.   We know AE did obtain marked-up meteorological plotting charts from the Navy, and she might have obtained other plotting charts as well.  There is nothing secret about the plotting charts, they are just a specialized product.

--There are no published aviator's charts covering any Pacific Ocean location other than Hawaii and the Western Coast of North America.

--Index Chart A (attached:  GCMAC_1939_Index_A.jpg) shows the coverage of the various nautical charts sold by the HO.  The "North Pacific" nautical charts (528 and 529) stop at the equator.  However, the "South Pacific" nautical charts overlap, and extend to 2 degree North latitude.   The best chart for Fred Noonan to plot the Lae-Howland leg would be HO 825 (edition of 1934), which extends from Lae on the West, the Central Gilberts to the North, and well East of Howland.  HO 825 does include the Phoenix Group, so if Noonan used this chart, Gardner/Niku would be on it. 

--The best charts for the Howland-Hawaii leg would be HO 527 and 528.  Both are needed because,in 1939, HO 528 doesn't include Oahu, and 527 doesn't include Howland.

--Index Chart R shows larger scale HO charts available in the Central Pacific.  There is no larger scale chart covering Howland and Baker.  There are larger scale charts covering the Gilberts (HO 119 and multiple local charts) and the Phoenix Group (HO 1198).

adr
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2016, 07:38:38 AM »

I wrote to Randy Jacobson who got our copy of the Murfin chart from the archive at San Bruno many years ago.  Here's what Randy had to say:

"I do have that map from San Bruno, and I never noticed the hand-drawn latitude/longitude lines.  But I can explain somewhat where it comes from.
Examining the Lexington search map, the fonts and locations of the islands on the Lex map match Murfin’s map.  The Lex map was produced by the Hydrographic Office, and is called a No. 5050, Strategic Plotting Chart No. 17, covering a bit below -8*S to 16*N, and 175*E to 147*W.  It too has a bit extended on the left hand side, but the chart is complete.  This chart covers the Phoenix Islands and has their positions and names.  The tick marks for longitude are located at -5*S and 10*N, and for latitude at 155 and 175* W.  What is different between the Murfin map and the Lex Map is “Pacific Ocean” is not on the Lex Map spanning the two circular plots.
 
So…I believe there were a series of these charts, all at different scales and different coverage areas, all prepared by the Hydrographic Office.  They were used as early as 1920, as US Navy annual reports indicate (googling).
 
What’s puzzling to me is that I do not remember the original maps (Lex or Murfin) being from multiple pieces.  It was a good 20 years since I was at San Bruno, so my memory may not be holding up.  I do remember, however, that I asked for copies of the maps, and got some in real time and some sent to me.  When I was at San Bruno, I didn’t spend a lot of time pouring over maps and charts due to limited time constraints, but rather found something useful and requested copies.
 
Given unlimited assets and resources, it would be worthwhile to go back to San Bruno and re-examine the originals.  There’s an ink or coffee stain on the Murfin chart that I cannot read with my Xerox copy.  That text deals with the post-loss radio messages and signals.  If the map pieces have been folded and taped together, then the folded sections (found on the back?) would have the chart number on them as well.
 
So why did Murfin’s map have hand-drawn latitude and longitude lines?  They had a small scale of the North Pacific available but no comparable map immediately south.  The Lex map is a bigger scale of the western South and North Pacific, useful for them, but at a different scale than Murfin’s map.
 
It’s too bad we don’t have a listing of all of the Strategic Plotting Charts from that era."

Randy also sent an undated transcript of a talk San Bruno archivist Kathleen O'Connor gave to a symposium about the archive's Earhart-related holdings.

"Hello, my name is Kathleen O’Connor, and I am the Archivist at the San Francisco Branch of the National Archives, located in San Bruno across the bay.  I am here to tell you that I have not solved the Earhart mystery, at least not yet.  My job is to preserve, protect, and to make available to researchers information that may help in their investigations.  Most of you know about the numerous documents regarding Earhart’s flight in 1937 from materials found primarily in the National Archives in Washington DC and other archives in that area.  What many of you may not know is that the National Archives have several regional branches containing materials of regional interest.  The San Francisco Branch is responsible for archiving documents from the west coast region, including Hawaii and Alaska.  Since the search for Earhart was tasked by the Chief of Naval Operations to be conducted by the Commandant of the 14th Naval District in Hawaii, Adm. Orrin Murfin, there is a substantial number of unique documents located in the San Bruno facility.  In addition, records from the 12th Naval District, based in San Francisco (which covers Oakland, where Earhart started both of her round the world flights), and records from the Naval Station in American Samoa are also stored here.

The kinds of documents belong to three general classes: radio messages and related correspondence, maps, and reports.  I should also state that all records dealing with Amelia Earhart have all been declassified long ago, even those records remotely connected with her flights and disappearance.  In the brief time I have, let me just touch on some aspects of the uniqueness of these records.

Radio Messages: According to Dr. Randy Jacobson of the Office of Naval Research, who has catalogued all available radio messages relating to Earhart’s flights, there are 512 radio messages in the COM14 section, 223 in the COM12 section, and 103 in the Tutuilla, American Samoa collection out of a total of 3239 radio messages.  Once the duplicates are counted,  there are 1687 records, and 966 that are unique, or single-copy radio messages.  COM14 has 97 (10.04%), COM12 has 16 (1.66%), and Tutuilla 38 (3.93%) unique radio messages.  These 151 messages cannot be found anywhere else.  Well, what do they say?  I’m sorry to say that you will have to come to San Bruno and read them yourselves, or ask Dr. Jacobson for that information, as it is not the job of the archivist to do this kind of research.  Dr. Jacobson has graciously provided information as to decoding the cryptic headers of Naval and Coast Guard radio messages, and those guides are also available at San Bruno. 

Reports: The reports on Earhart’s disappearance are those that you have seen elsewhere in various archives, except that we have the original Colorado report to Adm. Murfin, as well as Capt. Friedell’s original report on the Lexington search.  We also have the original full-scale maps of the Lexington and other ships’ search, with the unique addition of the working copy of the Lexington search map.  On this map are lines drawn in ink that were obvious mistakes, but were copied onto the final version, altering the actual areas that the Lexington purported to search. 

Maps: The real jewel in our collection is the 14th Naval District working map of the Earhart disappearance covering the period from July 2 through July 5, when numerous radio messages were thought to have come from Earhart.  On this map are annotations of events that are not found anywhere else.  Let me briefly state what these annotations are:
Additional Dope on Radio Bearings
Mokapu
3 July      first bearing 213 (+-10)
4 July      2nd bearing 200
      also 105o and 180o thrown out as doubtful
Wake         115o
   5 July      144o
2200 night 2nd   Itasca heard weak signals
        night 3rd      Itasca heard weak signals?

Night of 3rd-
KGMB request to broadcast-
0630GCT 4th (8PM local Honolulu to 215) Amateur in Maui
                  CG
                  Wailupe
                  Army [unreadable]
                  PAA
asked for 8 dashes if on water---got 8 in response
asked for 4 dashes if North of Howland and 6 is [sic] South [unreadable] received [unreadable] 105
0120 to 0150 morning of 5 July  3 operators at Wailupe [unreadable] transmission transmission [sic]
“281 North of Howland beyond north” etc.  Coast Guard [unreadable] could not copy

From what I know, no other document mentions a 200, 105, and 180 degree bearing from Makapuu, Oahu.  Furthermore, there is no other documents (except perhaps the local Hawaiian newspapers) of what KGMB broadcast to Earhart and what specifically was heard in response.  There are other very interesting markings on this map, and I invite anyone interested to spend some time in San Bruno examining it.

Well, I hope I have piqued your interest in the amount of information still to be examined by Earhart researchers that is available for examination.  Perhaps some of this information may provide the definitive clue as to what happened to Earhart and why.  I invite anyone interested to come to our facility, and I will help you in any way I can.  Good luck to all of you, and thank you for inviting me to speak at this marvelous symposium.

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Arthur Rypinski

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2016, 09:44:55 AM »

So, the state of play, so far, is:

1)  If AE & FN used only published charts, the Phoenix Group would probably be on the chart, since the chart was probably HO 825.  We don't know if Gardner Island was specifically named, since we don't have the chart itself.   If FN created a custom strip chart with scissors and paste, nobody knows where he put the scissors.

2) If AE & FN used non-public plotting charts, some plotting charts included the Phoenix Group, and others did not.   The Lexington plotting chart, HO 5050, described by Randy would work nicely for FN (Lae is 6.7 degrees S, 147 degrees W), and it includes the Phoenix Islands.   The Murfin Map could only have been used in conjunction with some other chart for the first part of the Lae-Howland leg.

So, to me, the assertion that AE & FN "flew off the chart" looks shaky.

adr



adr 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2016, 11:14:54 AM »

So, to me, the assertion that AE & FN "flew off the chart" looks shaky.

I think you and I are coming at this from different perspectives.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying that there were charts available for Noonan to use, for example HO 5050, that would work nicely and included the Phoenix Islands.  So that is most likely what he did. Therefore the "flew off the chart" theory is shaky.

I look at the post-loss radio signals and find it odd that in none of them does Earhart say the name of an island.  If you're down on an island and you want to be rescued I think we'd all agree that you would say the name of the island.  "We're on Gardner island, Gardner, Gardner, Gardner."  Instead we get garbled or forgotten lat/long coordinates and descriptions like, "down on small, uncharted island" (Mabel Larremore), "ship on reef southeast of Howland" (Dana Randolph), "281 north" (Navy Wailupe) and "N.Y. N.Y. (Betty Klenck).  I ask myself, under what circumstance would AE have lat/long but not know the name of the island?  The only answer I can come up with is that she did not have a map on which she could plot the lat/long and see the name of the island.  Was there a map in 1937 that Noonan could have used for the flight to Howland that did not show Gardner?  Yes, the same chart the 14th Naval District used to manage the search.  We just don't know the nomenclature for that chart.  Was that chart a USN chart not available to Noonan?  We don't know, but given the support Earhart had from the Navy it seems unlikely.
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Bill Mangus

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2016, 11:55:32 AM »

Is it possible there was a map which showed only the "Phoenix Islands" as a group without naming individual islands?

As for the possible lat/long heard, it would have been easy for Fred to take star sightings and work out their position -- that was, after all, his profession.  Since the sextant box was found at the 7 site, the sextant made it ashore.  (If the rock carin turns out to be Fred, that's likely where the sextant ended-up, along with his watch and dental work.)  Of course he may not have been coherent enough to plot their position after whatever happened to cause his injury, but maybe he was in-and-out of it.

Maybe he did a rough DR fix during the flight down 157 deg from Howland Island or just after they saw Gardner and she was surveying it before landing.

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2016, 12:02:45 PM »

Is it possible there was a map which showed only the "Phoenix Islands" as a group without naming individual islands?

It's possible but if I knew I was in the Phoenix Islands I'd say so. 
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Bill Mangus

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2016, 12:30:49 PM »

We don't know she didn't say so.  Maybe she did but no one heard it.  Maybe she just wanted to be precise; the  Phoenix Is. cover a lot of territory and she may have had a lat/long position from Fred.  No way to know for sure unless another transcript shows up after nearly 80 years.
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Arthur Rypinski

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2016, 02:30:36 PM »

IF Noonan used the Murfin Map, then he had to have ANOTHER map, which covered Lae, New Britain/Bougainville, Nukumanu, and the USS Ontario.  That other map might have been the published HO 825 or the Navy's unpublished HO 5050, both of which cover the entire Lae-Howland route.  Once he has the other map, why does he still need the Murfin Map?

I gather you have looked at the chart Noonan used to navigate from Natal to Dakar/St Louis.  What kind of chart was that?

adr
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2016, 04:17:28 PM »

IF Noonan used the Murfin Map, then he had to have ANOTHER map, which covered Lae, New Britain/Bougainville, Nukumanu, and the USS Ontario.

Agreed

  That other map might have been the published HO 825 or the Navy's unpublished HO 5050, both of which cover the entire Lae-Howland route.  Once he has the other map, why does he still need the Murfin Map?

He wouldn't, so for the theory to work he must have had a map other than HO 825 or HO 5050.

I gather you have looked at the chart Noonan used to navigate from Natal to Dakar/St Louis.  What kind of chart was that?

For the first attempt flight from Oakland to Honolulu Noonan used "Pan American System Pacific Division - California-Hawaii - (east-half)" and "Pan American System Pacific Division - California-Hawaii - (west-half)"
For the second attempt South Atlantic crossing he used a U.S. government chart "North Atlantic Ocean - Southeastern Sheet - 956a".


« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 07:41:29 PM by Ric Gillespie »
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Arthur Rypinski

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2016, 05:48:13 PM »

He wouldn't, so for the theory to work he must have had a map other than HO 825 or HO 5050.
Okay, but we (or at least I) can't identify that other map.  It isn't an HO published product.  It might be a Pan Am map, but Pan Am didn't begin service to the South Pacific until 1938 or so, and the survey flights mostly stayed at the East end of the needed range.  It might be another Navy plotting chart, but if Noonan gets to pick plotting charts, it would be hard to improve on HO 5050.  Conceivably it was an Admiralty nautical chart, which I haven't considered. 

On a related topic, I tried to measure the location of Howland on the Murfin Map, and came up with 0.81N, 167.65E, compared with the actual location of 0.81N, 167.71E, and the 1936 "Bowditch" location of 0.81N, 167.61E.  1 degree at the equator is 60nm, so 0.01 degrees is 0.6 nm.  The current edition of HO 825 at the time of the flight was dated 1934, so if there was more recent info on Howland's location, it wouldn't appear on the published chart.   The differences don't seem material to me.

The map that Noonan used for Dakar was the latest available edition of the relevant HO nautical chart.

adr
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