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Author Topic: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?  (Read 197771 times)

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #420 on: May 01, 2017, 08:56:39 AM »

The mysterious "Weems 805W" on the inspection certificate is tantalizing.

I did a Google search for "Weems 805W," which turned up one result:
"The One That Got Away" by "The Ghost of Gardner Island."

He identifies the instrument as a Byrd sextant. 

"A Byrd sextant was aboard the NC-4, the U.S. Navy Curtiss seaplane that made the first-ever flight across the Atlantic Ocean in 1919.  But by the mid-1920s, the Byrd sextant had been replaced by other types of bubble sextants."

The Ghost reads the class on the inspection certificate as "aeronautical."  I think "aviation" is a better reading of the handwriting.  But the idea is the same.  The Ghost and I both think that the instrument in the box is Brandis 6006, while the inspection certificate is for the (now lost) 5996. 

The article is well worth reading for the other information it gives about Weems, Byrd, and the development of bubble sextants.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #421 on: June 12, 2017, 01:42:42 PM »

Another Brandis on eBay today

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222542741960?ul_noapp=true

Seller confirms that the instrument is
Brandis #5524
USNO #4374
in Box #4065

amck
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #422 on: June 12, 2017, 02:26:25 PM »

Brandis #5524
USNO #4374
in Box #4065

Thanks.

I put it in the table.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Steve Lyle Gunderson

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #423 on: June 13, 2017, 04:27:35 PM »

Another Brandis on eBay today

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222542741960?ul_noapp=true

Seller confirms that the instrument is
Brandis #5524
USNO #4374
in Box #4065


amck


Little fuzzy, but looks like #5584?
Steve G
#3911R
 
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #424 on: June 13, 2017, 04:30:55 PM »

Little fuzzy, but looks like #5584?


Looks that way to me, too.

LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #425 on: June 13, 2017, 06:45:11 PM »

Seller said it was 5524, but you are right, does look like 5584.

I'll ask him to verify which.

amck
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #426 on: June 13, 2017, 07:55:17 PM »

Marty,

Regarding the “sextant box table” you have been maintaining; are there enough entries today to conduct a statistical analysis to determine the odds of the Niku box i.e. #3500/1542 coming out of the Navy’s laboratory around the time of AE’s flight?

Note to all, are there any statistical analysts in our group that may be able to take on such a task?

Ted Campbell
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #427 on: June 13, 2017, 08:26:23 PM »

Here is a photo I got from the seller

pretty clearly 5524 vs 5584

amck
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #428 on: June 13, 2017, 09:12:00 PM »

Here is a photo I got from the seller

pretty clearly 5524 vs 5584


Yes.  Different angle from the one that makes the "2" look so much like an "8"!

LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #429 on: June 13, 2017, 09:15:50 PM »

Regarding the “sextant box table” you have been maintaining; are there enough entries today to conduct a statistical analysis to determine the odds of the Niku box i.e. #3500/1542 coming out of the Navy’s laboratory around the time of AE’s flight?

I am not a statistician.

I am doubtful that statistics would help.

The Brandis sextants show 4-digit serial numbers and 4-digit Naval Observatory numbers.

Where we have certificates glued to the box, they show that some of the instruments were calibrated LONG after they were constructed.

The table also shows that there is no correlation between serial numbers, which suggest time of construction and purchase, and the Naval Observatory numbers. 

So far as I can tell, nothing in the table rules out the numbers from Niku being from a Brandis sextant box that had been used by the Navy.

Neither does anything in the table guarantee that this is so.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #430 on: June 14, 2017, 08:51:48 PM »

Marty,

Thanks for the response.  What I was suggesting is, let’s sort out all the Brandis 3XXX boxes and analyze the Navy numbers on those boxes.  Hopefully, we have some Navy dates associated with their numbers that would narrow the date period.

Ted Campbell
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #431 on: June 14, 2017, 10:10:01 PM »

Thanks for the response.  What I was suggesting is, let’s sort out all the Brandis 3XXX boxes and analyze the Navy numbers on those boxes.  Hopefully, we have some Navy dates associated with their numbers that would narrow the date period.

Help yourself.

All the data is in the table.

Click on the sort symbol next to or under the headings to sort on the values in that column.

The table will then become resorted according to the ascending or descending values in that particular column.

You can then browse through the thirty Brandis 3xxx entries and see what you can see.

It is extremely difficult to make tables work in this Forum.  It is easier to see the columns in the wiki.

Brandis   3193   none      Smithsonian      yes
Brandis   3227   845      Mariner's Museum   no   
Brandis   3239   850      Dominic Winter Book Auctions; "circa 1918." "Brandis & Sons Mfg. Co. Brooklyn."   no   
Brandis   3249   836      ebay   no   "3249" in pencil inside box lid and in ink on box top
Brandis   3268   882 (?)      ebay; 882 is stenciled on front of the box.   no   882 stenciled on front; box only; contains 3657
Brandis   3320   4799      eBay (reported 11/22/2011 on AE Forum by D.P.Cotts)   no   no
Brandis   3331   1421      Land and Sea; in box for 4551   No   No.
Brandis   3336   4773      eBay (no box)   no   
Brandis   3339   1415   1942-12-26   Antique Helper   No   Yes
Brandis   3360   1446      in box for 4131, which is stamped in ink above right hinge. Also stamped in ink: Brandis Lamp; Sons Inc 764-753 Lexington Avenue Brooklyn, New York No   No
Brandis   3444   1461      eBay.   no   No, box is for a Buff & Buff
Brandis   3483   1567   1932-01-27   ebay; box only.   no   
Brandis (theoretical)   3500   1542      Niku    ?   maybe
Brandis (sextant only)   3511   1585      TIGHAR (sextant only)   no   
Brandis   3527   1599   1933-05-04   TIGHAR; large box; box only   yes   
Brandis (theoretical)   3547   173      Pensacola    ?   
Brandis   3596   4510      ebay; 7.5" radius   no   no box
Brandis   3657   883 (?)      box holding sextant 3692; ebay      no; 883 stenciled on box
Brandis   3692   none      ebay      no; in box for 3657
Brandis   3702   none      e-bay. Large "916" stenciled in gold on box.   no   "916"?
Brandis   3738   945      ebay; In box for 3268.   no   
Brandis   3806   4879      purchased by TIGHAR member Jim Linder   no   
Brandis   3826   4603      eBay   no   Brass plaque on box: "248 US Navy 101009"
Brandis   3832   4831   1937-09-30   WestSea.com   no   No?
Brandis   3893   4569   1941-03-14   ebay; sold in 1946 as war surplus   no   
Brandis   3898   4842   1941-04-18   Last digit in inspection year uncertain: 194? ebay   no   3898 on box; no NO No. seen in ebay pictures.
Brandis   3920   4516      Fleaglass.com   no   seller says "yes"
Brandis   3946         Box only. Holds Brandis 5670.      No.
Brandis   3985   4826      eBay (reported on AE Forum 6/30/2012 by Walter Runck)   no   No
Brandis   3987   1584   1938-11-30   TIGHAR   no   yes


LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #432 on: June 15, 2017, 02:17:17 AM »

Marty,

Thanks for the table.

Please explain the entries for:  Box no. 3511/1585 – TIGHAR and Box no. 3527/1599 – TIGHAR.

I thought we were working on Box 3500/1542 where did these other numbers come from?

Ted Campbell
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #433 on: June 15, 2017, 06:30:51 AM »

Please explain the entries for:  Box no. 3511/1585 – TIGHAR and Box no. 3527/1599 – TIGHAR.

I thought we were working on Box 3500/1542 where did these other numbers come from?


I think those sextants were purchased by TIGHAR or by a TIGHAR member.


ALL of the "other numbers" in the table came from the process illustrated in this very thread.


People find Brandis sextants with two numbers inscribed on them, or else boxes with two numbers on them.


One is a Brandis serial number.


The other is a Naval Observatory number, issued at the time that an instrument passed through the hands of the N.O. techs.


Where there is a date, that means that we have seen the certificate written up by the N.O., which shows when the instrument was last calibrated  by the techs.  Those certificates are all glued inside the lid of the boxes, as far as I remember. 


Not all of the boxes with two numbers have certificates glued inside, so we don't have dates for the last calibration for all of our pairs of numbers.



LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Paul Blackman

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #434 on: June 16, 2017, 08:24:21 AM »

OK, this took a while to sort out.

I've done a temporary sextants table so that Andrew and others can see the new items that you proposed to add to the big table.

With any luck, I've also attached the spreadsheet that Paul emailed me, with coloring and comments.  I've made some corrections in inspection dates and made decisions about various numbers.

The last entry, Brandis 5996/6006 is most interesting.  I think it is an aviation quadrant, with an electric light (see the wires and the on/off switch on the handle.  I suspect that the inspection certificate was for 5996 and that 6006 got placed in the wrong box.  The mysterious "Weems 805W" on the inspection certificate is tantalizing.

Hi
If we're going down the statistical analysis road, are any of the 13 sextants I sent through some weeks back going to make the main table ? Might make sense...
Best
Paul
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