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Author Topic: Does your local paper have stories about messages after July 2, 1937?  (Read 29944 times)

Kevin Weeks

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Re: Does your local paper have stories about messages after July 2, 1937?
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2010, 05:36:56 AM »

not a post loss message, but the first paragraph from a NY times article about earhart and radio transmissions. actually LOTS of coverage of earhart in july 1937 NY times, some not the characteristic portrayal either.


HUNTING LOST PLANES; Earhart Shows Need for Powerful RadiosLessons Learned From Pioneer Airmen



July 11, 1937, Sunday

Section: DRAMA, SCREEN, MUSIC, DANCE, ART, RADIO, Page 8, 1374 words

THE "ether" over the Pacific has been one of the most active spots in the realm of radio during the past week with "Earhart" and her call letterm "KHAQQ" sputtering on the tongues of wireless. The hope of rescue lurked in the air as radio tossed its invisible life-lines out acrosss the Pacifio.
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Kevin Weeks

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Re: Does your local paper have stories about messages after July 2, 1937?
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2010, 05:42:37 AM »

another from the NY times about the march of times mix-up

RADIO SKIT CAUSES AN EARHART MIX-UP; Hawaiian Operator Listening to March of Time Program Believes Conversation Real

    *
      E-MAIL

Wireless to THE NEW YORK TIMES.

July 10, 1937, Saturday

Page 7, 494 words

A cramatized March of Time radio program broadcast yesterday from New York, which featured the disappearance of Amelia Earhart and her navigator, Fred Noonan, resulted in an erroneous report here that Miss Earhart had been in two-way communication with naval vessels.
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Cynthia M Kennedy

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Re: Does your local paper have stories about messages after July 2, 1937?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2010, 10:41:20 PM »

I went to the Center for American History at the University of Texas at Austin this past Thursday, and checked out the Houston Post and The San Antonio Express.  I decided to start with some of the large cities first, before moving on to the smaller weekly newspapers.  However, as I'm sure that others have found, the papers I looked at mostly repeated the same AP stories, with little, if any, original (local) material.

I found these names mentioned in AP stories as having picked up messages possibly from AE.  These may all be in your database, but if any of them aren't, I can supply more information:

Carl Pierson
Howard Coons
Ernest Henderson
W.E. Tippin

Also, in the San Antonio Express, July 8, 1937, p. 2, there is a really bizarre doctored up photo of the Electra, drifting in the ocean, with AE sitting on top.  The caption says (in part), "In a vivid brush dramatization, artist Walt Scott of NEA Service has depicted for San Antonio Express readers the scene that rescuers might see if they reach the castaways in time--both flyers perched on the plane's deck, eagerly scanning the horizon for a sign of approaching assistance." 

What a great way to spread misinformation.

There are two more photos in that spread--and the captions say that they were taken before the flight.  In one, AE is "inspecting the tanks on which she counted in emergency" and in the other AE is testing a "collapsible rubber lifeboat" which the caption indicates she had on the plane with her.  In this picture, she is smiling. I took photos of this page, because it seemed to me such a great example of how such photos could be the source of confusion and misconceptions.


With regard to AP---I wonder how someone would access the AP story archives?  I did some searching online and only found reference to AP archives for still photos and film.  Perhaps a university library that has a journalism school...

I am going back to Austin again soon, and this time I will be looking at weekly newspapers from small towns.


Cindy



I like Cindy's idea of coordinating newspaper archive volunteers.  Any takers?  I'm in.  Let's talk.

I've put up a very abbreviated timeline of post-loss radio messages.

I've only got a few things in it.  It needs a lot more to make it really useful.  But it's a proof of concept and a start for keeping track of what people find in their newspaper searches.

If anyone can get at an AP archive for the key dates (July 2 to July 9), that might help in fleshing out some of the details.
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Cynthia M Kennedy

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Re: Does your local paper have stories about messages after July 2, 1937?
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2010, 10:57:31 PM »

I have another idea concerning post-loss messages that might not have been reported in the national press.  I think it would be helpful to tap into the local history/genealogical community, as such individuals have detailed knowledge of notable events in their respective communities.  One way to do this would be to post messages in Rootsweb (the free message boards run by Ancestry for each county in each US state--plus the Canadian provinces--and countries all over the world--plus topical categories).  Here is a link: http://boards.rootsweb.com/?o_iid=33216&o_lid=33216

As is noted by Rootsweb, they have thousands of boards, but perhaps a few well-placed messages asking if any local historians have information about someone in their communities who reported hearing AE, more post-loss messages may be uncovered (if documentation exists in the form of a newspaper article or memoir, etc.).

Also, from my years working at a small-town library, I recall that for the bicentennial of the US, in 1976, there were oral history projects funded around the US (and others have been conducted for other reasons, as well).  Who knows but what some of these may be useful sources, if they have been transcribed, or if notes were made of the main points of the interviews.

Just some ideas...

Cindy



TIGHAR has done the first systematic survey of all alleged post-loss radio receptions.  Some are very evidently hoaxes.  Some seem very credible.  Others, though highly improbable, cannot be ruled out as impossible.

We have learned that some reports of post-loss radio reception were not reported in the national press.  There is no way to search local newspapers except by having generous volunteers read their local newspapers from July 2 until a week or two later.

Are there any post-loss radio transmissions that have not yet come to TIGHAR's attention?
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Does your local paper have stories about messages after July 2, 1937?
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2010, 01:27:13 PM »

I went to the Center for American History at the University of Texas at Austin this past Thursday, and checked out the Houston Post and The San Antonio Express.  I decided to start with some of the large cities first, before moving on to the smaller weekly newspapers.  However, as I'm sure that others have found, the papers I looked at mostly repeated the same AP stories, with little, if any, original (local) material.

Thanks for looking!

Quote
I found these names mentioned in AP stories as having picked up messages possibly from AE.  These may all be in your database, but if any of them aren't, I can supply more information:

Carl Pierson
Howard Coons
Ernest Henderson
W. E. Tippin

Here's how to search the TIGHAR website to see what is already there.

Karl Pierson and Walter McMenamy have been discussed at length.

There is no doubt that their messages were false.

Coons, Henderson, and Tippin don't ring a bell with me and I don't see them on the website or in a quick look at Finding Amelia.  There's no harm in reporting what you found about them in this thread.  I can and will add them to the timeline, for what it's worth.

They may already be in the database that Ric Gillespie and Bob Brandenberg are developing, of course.  That's not open to the public yet; I think they are still mulling over the best way to present their results.  But it was Ric who suggested that people join the search and look for stories that may not have circulated nationwide.  So let's add them to the timeline.

Quote
With regard to AP---I wonder how someone would access the AP story archives?  I did some searching online and only found reference to AP archives for still photos and film.  Perhaps a university library that has a journalism school...

I don't know the answer to that question--but I think it is a good question to ask and keep on asking until we find an answer.  I imagine that such archives must exist somewhere and that they would be accessible to researchers.

Quote
I am going back to Austin again soon, and this time I will be looking at weekly newspapers from small towns.

Much appreciated!
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Kevin Weeks

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Re: Does your local paper have stories about messages after July 2, 1937?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2010, 10:20:08 AM »


With regard to AP---I wonder how someone would access the AP story archives?  I did some searching online and only found reference to AP archives for still photos and film.  Perhaps a university library that has a journalism school...


Cynthia, I found an AP search online when I posted my Times articles. You did have to pay for it though so I didn't search them.

I'll look again to see if I can find the site I was on.
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Cynthia M Kennedy

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Re: Does your local paper have stories about messages after July 2, 1937?
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2010, 10:28:46 PM »

I went looking for a Joe Arnold on the 1930 census of Okmulgee County, Oklahoma, but I didn't find any Joes or Josephs.  Lots of Arnolds, however--and plenty of Joes and Josephs in other parts of OK.  I posted a message on Rootsweb (in the Okmulgee Co OK forum) asking for info on Mr. Joe Arnold, living in Okmulgee in 1937, but no response yet.

I'm sure you know that Betty Klenck is listed on the 1930 census (age 7) with her parents and sister, in Pinellas County--St Petersburg--FL.  One of the questions asked on the 1930 census was whether a family owned a radio--and Betty's family did.

Cindy

I have sent you an email with more information.

Thanks.

It's good to see the original page.  It shows that the date of the AP article was 8 July.  That suggests to me, in turn, that the latest possible date for the reception of the transmission would have to be 7 July.  Are there any Oklahoma papers that have the same story?

The same page also has a separate article on a claim made by someone in Hawaii to have heard Earhart and the Itasca on "1420 kilocycles" (8 July, UP). If the Hawaii article has the correct frequency, it must be false.  AE's transmitter was crystal-controlled and only had three frequencies: 500 kcs, 3105 kcs, and 6210 kcs.  1420 kcs is not an even multiple of any of those three frequencies.  Moreover, there is no record of the Itasca receiving such a message from AE or transmitting a message like that in reply.  On those grounds, I would judge the Hawaii story as not credible.  But it should still go into the count of "post-loss radio messages."
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Cynthia M Kennedy

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Re: Does your local paper have stories about messages after July 2, 1937?
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2010, 10:56:19 PM »

I found mention of Tippin in the TIGHAR archives (May 1998).  I photographed the Tippin story that appeared in the Houston Post (7 July 1937--"El Paso July 6 (AP)", so if you want it, I can supply it. 

Here is the information about Coons and Henderson:

Houston Post 6 July 1937 p. 1
Honolulu July 5 (UP) ---not "AP" but "UP"
Stations along the Pacific coast reported receiving voice messages from the flyer, one of which said, "Still alive. Better hurry.  Tell husband all right."
Picks Up Message
Howard Coons, San Francisco amateur, said he picked up the message (here the article continues on p. 5) on a wave length of 15,600 and 15,900 kilocycles.  Another message, intercepted by Ernest Henderson at Auburn, Washington, said, '50-128-QQ--Waterlogged--Can't last much longer."

I copied this, word for word.

Cindy



I went to the Center for American History at the University of Texas at Austin this past Thursday, and checked out the Houston Post and The San Antonio Express.  I decided to start with some of the large cities first, before moving on to the smaller weekly newspapers.  However, as I'm sure that others have found, the papers I looked at mostly repeated the same AP stories, with little, if any, original (local) material.

Thanks for looking!

Quote
I found these names mentioned in AP stories as having picked up messages possibly from AE.  These may all be in your database, but if any of them aren't, I can supply more information:

Carl Pierson
Howard Coons
Ernest Henderson
W. E. Tippin

Here's how to search the TIGHAR website to see what is already there.

Karl Pierson and Walter McMenamy have been discussed at length.

There is no doubt that their messages were false.

Coons, Henderson, and Tippin don't ring a bell with me and I don't see them on the website or in a quick look at Finding Amelia.  There's no harm in reporting what you found about them in this thread.  I can and will add them to the timeline, for what it's worth.

They may already be in the database that Ric Gillespie and Bob Brandenberg are developing, of course.  That's not open to the public yet; I think they are still mulling over the best way to present their results.  But it was Ric who suggested that people join the search and look for stories that may not have circulated nationwide.  So let's add them to the timeline.

Quote
With regard to AP---I wonder how someone would access the AP story archives?  I did some searching online and only found reference to AP archives for still photos and film.  Perhaps a university library that has a journalism school...

I don't know the answer to that question--but I think it is a good question to ask and keep on asking until we find an answer.  I imagine that such archives must exist somewhere and that they would be accessible to researchers.

Quote
I am going back to Austin again soon, and this time I will be looking at weekly newspapers from small towns.

Much appreciated!
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Does your local paper have stories about messages after July 2, 1937?
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2010, 07:08:24 AM »

I found mention of Tippin in the TIGHAR archives (May 1998).  I photographed the Tippin story that appeared in the Houston Post (7 July 1937--"El Paso July 6 (AP)", so if you want it, I can supply it.  

You may e-mail it to me if you'd like.

Thanks for the lead to the May 1998 Forum.  Here is the text:

Quote
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 08:58:55 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      amateur radio operator

Here's another amateur radio operator to add to the list, if not previously reported.

Article from El Paso Times, 7 Jul 37 (Wed.) AE is "on land" somewhere near Howland Island in the South Pacific, according to a carrier wave message received by W.E. Tippin, Upper Valley amateir radio operator, between 8:30 and 8:40 p.m. Tuesday.

[note: if I calculate correctly, deduct 7 hrs. from Mountain time to get Gardner time.]

Tippin, who operates station W5FSQ, said the Colomba Broadcasting Co. Monday night had sent out a world-wide message, hoping it would be picked up by Miss Earhart. The message told her to send radio carrier wave signals twice to indicate she was on land and three times if she were on water. Tuesday night, Tippin said he distinctly heard the double carrier wave signal flashed at intervals for ten minutes. The frequency of the signals was 3105 KC, the same as that of Miss Earhart. The reason carrier wave signals were designated, Tippin explained, rather than the transmission of voice, was because such signals conserve power. Tippin added that he had his receiving set tuned to the Earhart frequency of 3105 KC and that on that account he attributed the signals he heard to her. Tippin said he heard the Columbia broadcast from Honolulu Monday night on a short wave frequency of 12,000 KC. The messages were being broadcast at the same time from Columbia's New York station, but his reception at the time from Honolulu was better.] Note: this is the morning paper. A short article in the Wed. PM paper, the Herald Post, stated that at about midnight Tuesday "I heard a woman's voice on Miss Earhart's frequency. The signals were not strong enough to read. They came a half minute at a time over a period of ten minutes. I have unusually good reception on my station because it is in the upper valley away from electric signs and street cars".

Oddly enough, I found Mr. Tippin's son on the first try. He related that he remembered his dad being excited about the event but doesn't think he reported to anyone other than the paper. I asked if he might still have the radio logs and he stated he would ask his sister. The gentleman was quite friendly and appeared to be  genuinely interested in helping. Of course, it is prudent to remember that that wackos also existed in 1937 and someone could have been sending false signals on the same freq.

Ron D. 2126

Quote
Here is the information about Coons and Henderson:

Houston Post 6 July 1937 p. 1
Honolulu July 5 (UP) ---not "AP" but "UP"
Stations along the Pacific coast reported receiving voice messages from the flyer, one of which said, "Still alive. Better hurry.  Tell husband all right."
Picks Up Message
Howard Coons, San Francisco amateur, said he picked up the message (here the article continues on p. 5) on a wave length of 15,600 and 15,900 kilocycles.  Another message, intercepted by Ernest Henderson at Auburn, Washington, said, '50-128-QQ--Waterlogged--Can't last much longer."

I copied this, word for word.

Thanks.  I'm booked this morning and afternoon but will try to expand the Timeline later today.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Kurt Kummer

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There may be an easier way to look at old newspapers, at least some of them.  Google apparently started a project some years ago to digitize every page of every newspaper ever published.  They realized some time later that the project was simply too large, even for them.

The good news is that all of the work done up to the abandonment of the project is available online.

Here's a link to the site.

https://news.google.com/newspapers

I looked today at the Lawrence (Kansas) Journal-World, because that's the town where I was born, and luckily it's been digitized from 1828 to 2009.  And Lawrence is not far from Atchison, so the editors in 1937 would have been very interested in the news about the search for Amelia and Fred.  So far I've read the news from July 3rd to July 8th 1937 as it was reported in the Journal-World but you forum members are much better equipped than I to understand if there's any new information there.  There are a multitude of quotes from reports of radio contacts from KHAQQ, and some of them are familiar, but others are not. 

It is certainly fascinating to see the story unfold as it happened.

Can anyone else think of a good way to search through this newspaper archive?  Typing 'Amelia Earhart Fred Noonan' into the search box brings up millions of hits, but not necessarily the 1937 contemporaneous articles.  I'm probably doing it wrong.

So far what I've done is scroll down to the Lawrence Journal-World listing, then when I'm there I type in the date I want to see and start reading.  I'm sure there's another way to do it.  I hope someone will find a bit of new information here.

Kurt
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Ian MacKay

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The Google angle is interesting; I had not heard of it. In response to Kurt's post, I looked on Google at my local paper, the Ottawa Citizen (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada). I see nothing (after a cursory look) that suggests any local angle, so I presume that anything I see came in from standard news outlets. But the headline July 5, 1937 is a summary of what TIGHAR believes: "Signals Indicate Amelia Earhart Is Alive and on Land" (Dateline Los Angeles).
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