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Author Topic: Status of "the stick"?  (Read 65625 times)

Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2016, 04:39:54 PM »

I have not seen anything on the chemical composition. Was any kind of country-of-origin analysis done, or whether the paint was sprayed on vs. brushed on, etc.?

I came across the chemical composition info the other day while looking for something else and, of course, now can't find it. The bulk of the work on Project Midnight Ghost was done between 1984 and 1995 BDA (Before Digital Age) so most of it is paper files - three filing cabinets full of paper files.I'll keep looking as time permits.
As I recall, we asked about country of origin and the answer was "paint is paint."  I don't remember any discussion of brush versus spray.  We don't know how the paint was applied to the aircraft anyway so knowing wouldn't help.

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Jerry Germann

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2016, 05:49:06 PM »

Would an examination of the surviving landing gear provide some clues?

As of 2008, the landing gear is the only confirmed part of the biplane remaining, and is on display at the Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace (French Air and Space Museum), in Le Bourget airport in Paris, the location from which L'Oiseau Blanc took off.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2016, 05:52:54 PM »

Would an examination of the surviving landing gear provide some clues?

As of 2008, the landing gear is the only confirmed part of the biplane remaining, and is on display at the Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace (French Air and Space Museum), in Le Bourget airport in Paris, the location from which L'Oiseau Blanc took off.

Been there.  Done that.
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Captain Andy

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2016, 06:55:31 PM »

Here's what I think the Avro letter to Patsy Judge said
Dear Mr Judge
We have analyzed the piece of metal you gave to Mr Ralph Martin we have determined the piece of metal is undoubtful a part off the undercarriage off the plane called the White Bird if you have any questions please write back
Sincerely
Your friends at Avro
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2016, 07:34:28 PM »

Here's what I think the Avro letter to Patsy Judge said
Dear Mr Judge
We have analyzed the piece of metal you gave to Mr Ralph Martin we have determined the piece of metal is undoubtful a part off the undercarriage off the plane called the White Bird if you have any questions please write back
Sincerely
Your friends at Avro

I think you're right but without the letter I can't prove it.
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2016, 08:31:11 PM »

Do you recall if this feature was something soldered on, a tab of some kind? or was it just part of the tank and not a separate piece at all.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 08:35:40 PM by Jerry Germann »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2016, 07:10:06 AM »

Do you recall if this feature was something soldered on, a tab of some kind? or was it just part of the tank and not a separate piece at all.

No hint of solder.  It appeared to be a broken fragment, roughly half, of a larger container. The complete container or "tank" seemed to have been roughly the size of a football - way too small to be an oil reservoir for an engine the size of the Lorraine-Dietrich.  A sump of some kind?
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2016, 08:59:20 AM »

I came across the chemical composition info the other day while looking for something else and, of course, now can't find it. The bulk of the work on Project Midnight Ghost was done between 1984 and 1995 BDA (Before Digital Age) so most of it is paper files - three filing cabinets full of paper files.I'll keep looking as time permits.
As I recall, we asked about country of origin and the answer was "paint is paint."  I don't remember any discussion of brush versus spray.  We don't know how the paint was applied to the aircraft anyway so knowing wouldn't help.

I can appreciate the tedium of wading through masses of paper, believe me. Getting stuff ready for federal audits is no cake walk. I do think it would be valuable to unearth what we already have.

As far as "paint is paint," as I understand it, modern analytic methods can shed light on country of origin, possibly even time frame - and that would be valuable data indeed.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC

Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2016, 09:08:46 AM »

In looking for items attached to the Whitebird, that resemble the artifact found, ..my focus leans toward this item, labeled ( Airstream). Streamline ... Is this a formed metal piece attached to the plywood sides of the whitebird, and what is it's function?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 09:28:19 AM by Jerry Germann »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2016, 09:20:25 AM »

In looking for items attached to the Whitebird, that resemble the artifact found, ..my focus leans toward this item, labeled ( Airstream). Is this a formed metal piece attached to the plywood sides of the whitebird, and what is it's function?

I don't see anything labeled "Airstream."  There is a tear-drop shaped fairing, probably aluminum, on the right-hand side of the cockpit.  My guess would be that it's purpose is to accommodate a need for more room in the cockpit at that location, maybe for Coil's hand or arm.  It looks like lightweight metal.  The artifact is quite heavy.
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2016, 09:26:34 AM »

In looking for items attached to the Whitebird, that resemble the artifact found, ..my focus leans toward this item, labeled ( Airstream).  Streamline  ...Is this a formed metal piece attached to the plywood sides of the whitebird, and what is it's function?

My bad.
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Captain Andy

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2016, 03:59:47 PM »

Ric do you have a photo of Ralph Martin and in the gull pond chronology you mention documents what documents are you talking about
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2016, 12:34:41 PM »

Ric do you have a photo of Ralph Martin and in the gull pond chronology you mention documents what documents are you talking about

Attached is a photo of Ralph Martin and the letters associated with him and Patsy Judge.
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2016, 02:59:53 PM »

Thanks for the photos and letters....very interesting stuff.

Looking at the artifact ,and possible attachment points,the piece outlined in the attachment below, looks somewhat like a mounting tab to me, along with an indicator by the pattern left behind,... that the fastener was held fast to whatever it was attached too, and the head passed through the tab.( If that is what it is)
Research on the Lorraine -Dietrich engines haven't yielded any clues thus far ,as to the identity of the artifact , and it's belonging to that particular engine. ( will continue the effort).
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2016, 09:36:48 PM »

There isn't a hole where the red arrow is pointing to, is there?  When someone mentions  an oily area of an engine, one of the areas that comes to mind is the flywheel/starter ring pan ( see below). That is one area that collects a lot of oil and debris, especially in the case of a rear main oil seal leak..this pan is more applicable to an auto engine , rather than airplane.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 08:51:39 AM by Jerry Germann »
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