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Author Topic: Can you explain what these little clips might be?  (Read 97019 times)

Chris Johnson

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2012, 11:27:59 AM »

Thanks Chris,

my next question is would the electra have had had something similar to keep out the weather?
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2012, 10:00:05 PM »

That the gidgies are more hand-made and from aluminum doesn't prove anything special, but it is suggestive of aircraft shop-craft ...

That makes the best sense to me.

I've worked with sheet aluminum in making flying RC models.  It's not easy to get curves like that into the metal.  For someone who works routinely with metal and who has the tools at hand, it would be a cinch.

Lots of scraps around, lots of tools, lots of skill in an aircraft shop.
LTM,

           Marty
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #62 on: May 29, 2012, 10:49:05 AM »

Here is another example of how the wood screws and custom cut plates could be used to attach a strap to a wood box.

The strap could have had a curve on the ends to match the curve of the plates. The teeth part to grip the strap so the holes don’t take all the stress, tightened against a similar diameter washer below. The strap folded over and stitched to the smaller hole. This way the plates were hidden and therefore did not need to match.

Fred Noonan may have had a strap installed on his sextant box, possibly at an airport shop during the trip. Maybe the little handle broke off or he just wanted to make the sextant box easier to carry climbing in and out of the plane.  The plates are hand made for custom project and not a mass produced item. They are different but perform the same function.  Two found, one for each end of the strap.

The sextant box was wood and found in same area that the clip and two wood screws were found. Wood screws could go with the wood box. One screw in each plate allows the strap to pivot.
edit: Also Showing 3 stitches like a leather awl made the "three-lobed" hole described for the smaller hole

Once on the island the sextant box may have used to keep food away from crabs and kindling dry.
The sextant discarded before the trek to the 7 site, but  the inverting eye piece kept to start fires.
A box with a strap would be much easier to carry on trips across the island.

The bent clip may indicate the strap was removed for some other use
3971R
 
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 03:08:04 PM by Gregory Lee Daspit »
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #63 on: May 31, 2012, 09:52:43 PM »

Jeff, the box in the shadow of the NR16020 looks like it has a similar strap attachment. Look at the far left. The box and strap are about the right size, but strap mounted lower than I showed in my sketch.

But why it would be out there like they were going to use it to prop up the tail doesn't make sense. Maybe it's a different box than the sextant box.
3971R
 
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2012, 04:40:39 PM »

If the strap was located more towards the center of the box, instead of the top, it may indicate it was intended to also hold the box down in the cabin.

The bent clip may be an indication of a jarring landing where the sextant was damaged and later discarded.

Conflicting sextant readings and an inaccurate map of what Gardner really looked like could then be a reason Fred was not sure he was “On Gardner” in radio transmissions.
3971R
 
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2012, 11:19:00 AM »

Here is another picture showing what looks like a strap attached to the sextant box which was possibly Fred’s.
See sketch to help ID where I think it is.

The mystery clip or washer is possibly reflecting to the right and the strap hangs down at about a 45 degree angle and then goes under the box.
 The box looks like it has a shadow between the shelf and box with parts of the strap protruding out in places.

It may be more definitive if there was a better picture of it.
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Rose Marie Reynolds

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2012, 11:51:49 PM »

Hi, Marty:  I have seen these clips on an antique Victorian shoe display stand.  They were used on the shoe-shaped surface as a cleat which caught the heel of the shoe to keep it on the stand.  It a utility piece which I have seen used on other small wood shelves or cases.  It is versatile because of the two holes which allows different positioning.  The serrated edge gives a slight amount of grip against whatever it's holding. 

As a basic "L" bracket, they would also have been used to support a shelf inside a wood box.  Many pieces of scientific equipment used to be transported in wood boxes, like a microscope or sextant.  The shelf would  have cut-outs to help support the item, or hold attachments.  Hope this helps.  Regards, Rose Reynolds
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #67 on: June 03, 2012, 04:47:12 AM »

I have seen these clips on an antique Victorian shoe display stand.  They were used on the shoe-shaped surface as a cleat which caught the heel of the shoe to keep it on the stand.  It a utility piece which I have seen used on other small wood shelves or cases.  It is versatile because of the two holes which allows different positioning.  The serrated edge gives a slight amount of grip against whatever it's holding. 

That makes some sense.  Could you get some pictures of such clips?

Quote
As a basic "L" bracket, they would also have been used to support a shelf inside a wood box.  Many pieces of scientific equipment used to be transported in wood boxes, like a microscope or sextant.  The shelf would  have cut-outs to help support the item, or hold attachments.

I guess we have always supposed that the clips were used in the sextant box somehow, then ripped or broken out at the Seven Site when the attachment points were no longer needed.  But that is all speculation.

As with the first supposition, if you have photos of similar clips being used in an instrument case, that would be most helpful.
LTM,

           Marty
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Rose Marie Reynolds

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #68 on: June 03, 2012, 03:33:02 PM »

Hi, again:  I no longer have the shoe display rack in my possession.  I have been trying to find a similar one for sale online.  Will post a photo if I find one.  Very much enjoying this search.  I have a background in Anthropology/Archeology and also Ecological Biology, as well as 30 years in the Antiques business.  Fine Woodworking was my bible for many years.  I also have an extensive commercial perfume/cosmetics bottle collection and several books on the subject.  Very interesting following the work TIGHAR has done and is doing. Rose
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Bill Mangus

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #69 on: June 03, 2012, 04:20:16 PM »

 :) Marty, has anyone suggested seeing if a curator/owner of a comtemporary sextant box would allow removal of the liner to see what's under there?  We'd be really, really careful! ???
Bill Mangus
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richie conroy

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2012, 04:30:34 PM »

Marty

look at the plate on bottom of this sextant box, could possibly be were Tighar's gidge came from ? screw looks similar as well





http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Schick-Brass-Sextant-type-Stadimeter-Stamford-Connecticut-/380443020135?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item58942bcb67#ht_15916wt_1449
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #71 on: June 03, 2012, 08:02:40 PM »

:) Marty, has anyone suggested seeing if a curator/owner of a comtemporary sextant box would allow removal of the liner to see what's under there?  We'd be really, really careful! ???

TIGHAR and/or some TIGHAR members own Brandis sextants.

So far as I know, there are no liners in them.
LTM,

           Marty
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #72 on: June 03, 2012, 08:05:38 PM »

look at the plate on bottom of this sextant box, could possibly be were Tighar's gidge came from ? screw looks similar as
well

Could be something like that, only a little more crude and mysterious.

I don't know whether anyone has determined whether the wood screws in the gidgies could be fully seated in the bottom of the Brandis-type box.
LTM,

           Marty
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2012, 12:21:41 PM »

Here is a blow-up of the strap and box seen under the plane.
It looks like a round headed screw with a light colored feature around it.
3971R
 
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2012, 08:31:25 PM »

Marty, if you download the box1 picture and zoom in on the end of the strap you should be able to see what looks like 6 stitches in a fan pattern coming from the second hole. This is very similar to what I showed in the sketch earlier and attached again. I had showed only 3 stitches because the description of the smaller hole said it was 3 lobed. I think the second hole is 3 lobed because they forced leather stitches thru it with an awl or heavy leather needle.
The clip I showed in the sketch was the un-bent clip. The clip in the box1 picture could be 2-6-S-03b(the longer and bent one) attached on the outside of the strap with no fold over, or it is something very similar. Anyway the picture seems to indicate an attachment very similar to the sketch I did.

This box1 picture was from the Purdue files,the one where AE and FN are under the tail while the wheel is worked on, zoomed in on

edit: The clip may already be bent in this picture. The strap looks forced out by the bend of the clip
edit: The wider portion of the light colored feature, which would be about at where the pivot hole and screw should be, could be the washer I showed only the washer is a little wider than the clip and sticks out.

3971R
 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 07:50:14 AM by Gregory Lee Daspit »
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