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Author Topic: Anyone know what this plane is?  (Read 43303 times)

Dave Lima

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Anyone know what this plane is?
« on: March 26, 2015, 08:35:42 PM »

I know it's not an electra.

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Friend Weller

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2015, 09:02:05 PM »

What's left of a DC-3 / C-47?
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2015, 09:47:19 PM »

What's left of a DC-3 / C-47?

Agreed--DC3

Self-published work by Wrightbus.  Licensed under Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 (Wikimedia Commons).

LTM,

           Marty
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Jay Burkett

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2015, 10:52:41 AM »

No, I don't think so.   Its a C-47.  Unless I'm badly mistaken:  DC-3s did not have the cockpit entry door on the left-hand side.
Jay Burkett, N4RBY
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Fairhope AL
 
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Tim Collins

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2015, 11:04:49 AM »

Isn't C-47 a military designation?
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Jay Burkett

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2015, 11:18:57 AM »

Yes, it is!  The aircraft are basically the same except for minor differences.  The crew entry door was one of them.  Many of the C-47s were pressed into commercial service following the war.  A lot had passenger interiors fitted.  I have never heard of that door being removed, though, I suspect some did.  I have never seen a C-47 in civilian use that has retained the belly/exernal cargo racks.  Quite a few of the civilain DC-3 that existed before the war were commandiered for use by the military for the duration of hostilities.  Some, not all, were returned to therir original owners/operators after the war.  I don't have a clue if the government paid to have those repainted and reconfigured for civilian use.
Jay Burkett, N4RBY
Aerospace Engineer
Fairhope AL
 
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2015, 11:25:05 AM »

No, I don't think so.   Its a C-47.  Unless I'm badly mistaken:  DC-3s did not have the cockpit entry door on the left-hand side.

"Flagship Detroit--The Oldest Flying DC-3"--seems to have a cockpit entry door on the left-hand side:

LTM,

           Marty
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Jay Burkett

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2015, 12:07:48 PM »

I was told this tid-bit by an ex C-47 and DC-3 pilot.    I could be wrong (as my beloved bride is wont to often remind me!).

Many ex-C-47s have eroneously been identified as DC-3s.  The two models were treated identically in commercial service.  Almost all photos and reference material found on the carries the identifer of DC-3/C-47. 

I have seen cases in other aircraft where some varients of miliatry versions had supposedly civil version features.  The reverse is also true.  This quite often occurred when models were being transitioned on the assembly line.
Jay Burkett, N4RBY
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Fairhope AL
 
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2015, 12:35:44 PM »

No, I don't think so.   Its a C-47.  Unless I'm badly mistaken:  DC-3s did not have the cockpit entry door on the left-hand side.

Gee, all the time (as a pre-teen) I helped the ground crew load bags into the forward cargo area behind the cockpit, and helped the stewardess (that's what they were called back then in the 1950s!) clean up the cabin for the next set of passengers, you mean this DC-3 was really a C-47? But the pilots all told me it was a DC-3. I was SO gullible!   
LTM,

Bruce
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« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 12:38:13 PM by Bruce Thomas »
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JNev

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2015, 02:48:19 PM »

Here's another Douglas (obviously) - can you name the model?

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Bob Smith

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2015, 04:09:59 PM »

Cloudster II. a 2 engine pusher aircraft. taking ideas from the XB45 Mixmaster or 47 which was a 2 engine in the fuselage, 2 coounter-rotating props in the tail. The objective was to  reduce drag from engines on the wing. Neither were produced commerdially and the jet aircraft came soon after . Don't know much more about it .
Bob S.
 
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 04:24:54 PM by Bob Smith »
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Jay Burkett

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2015, 09:06:41 PM »

Well,  I know I didn't make this up.  I was at an airshow, possibly Oshkosh.  I struck up a conversation with an old pilot that claimed he flew C-47s in the war.  We were standing in between a C-47 and a DC-3.  He eagerly tried to point out all of the differences.  The lack of an external cockpit entry door on the LHS, only a small passenger door aft (not the big double door you could load a jeep through!), the lack of an astro-dome and other details.  I did find these photos:

ttps://www.flickr.com/photos/38974417@N00/15155199682]h[url]ttps://www.flickr.com/photos/38974417@N00/15155199682

https://www.flickr.com/photos/12272370@N00/15813662189[/url]

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pan-American-Airways/Douglas-DC-3%28C%29/2505902/L/&sid=1fd4f9adff7c75eba7c8ff8cbba356d4

This particular aircraft fits his description of a DC-3 all except for the astro-dome.  It has the small passenger entry door aft and no cockpit entry door forward.  I do not believe that this was the aircraft we were looking at when I was at that airshow.  I did some checking and found that this airframe may be somewhat of a kluge.

I will admit that any aircraft that has been in service for 70-odd years is bound to have many repairs and modifications.  Some doors could have been removed due to repairs or mods.

I do find it interesting that almost every photo I can find of either a DC-3, or a C-47 carries a description that says C-47 (DC-3)  or something very similar.  I find that this is true for the aircraft that are obviously C-47s due to the military hardware that is still there (external airdrop cargo racks, glider tow hooks, troop sling seats, etc.).

Douglas built around 10,000 DC-3s, C-47s and variants.  Roughly 600 were for pre-war civilian airlines.  Depending on who you believe the Russians built somewhere between 4,000 and 20,000.  Japan licensed built and/or cloned from something less than 100 to 400 or so.  Again, I found several sources that differed wildly.  What ever the actual number is the total number produced for the civilian airlines,which were outfitted with the small pax door and not cockpit door was a small number compared to the numbers ordered by the military.  It is not surprising that very few of those aircraft still exist.

Having said all that, I could easily be convinced that I had been given bad information!  All of the photos that I can find of the DC-1 and DC-2s all have the door.  Almost all of the DC-3/C-47 photos have the door.  At least I had a good excuse to go digging around history of a cool airplane!
Jay Burkett, N4RBY
Aerospace Engineer
Fairhope AL
 
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2015, 09:40:38 PM »

Well,  I know I didn't make this up.  ... I did find these photos:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/38974417@N00/15155199682

That aircraft is a former C-47 that has been heavily restored.

It does not prove your case.

"Former Pan Am DC-3 Becomes Airworthy"

The Historic Flight Foundation, based at Snohomish County Airport (KPAE, also known as Paine Field) in Everett, Washington, has completed the restoration of a DC-3 with a rich history, a project that took about five years to complete. The airplane is now airworthy for the first time in a decade and has been added to a long list of historic airplanes available for rides for the members of the foundation. The history of the foundation’s DC-3 began in 1944 as a C-47 in Asia. “We think it’s the only C-47 or DC-3 that is airworthy that was flown by the CNAC [China National Aviation Foundation],” said John Sessions, founder of the Historic Flight Foundation. The airplane was also in the hands of Claire Chennault for a short period before returning to its country of birth and receiving an N-number in the late 1940s. The airplane served the Pan Am Airlines for a few years before becoming an executive transport airplane.

Because of the Pan Am heritage, Sessions decided on a 1949 Pan Am paint scheme, which includes “the correct color blue, the 48 stars of the flag and the big number on the wing that they used to have even on airliners,” said Sessions.

In addition to the paint scheme, the complete exterior refurbishment, which was completed by Sealand Aviation in Cambpell River, British Columbia, included restoring the airframe’s skins, overhauling the landing gear, replacing the window glass and reversing a previous Super DC-3 conversion, a transformation that included major modifications such as changing the tailwheel from retractable to fixed, removing the clamshell doors and altering the entire nose section.

Quote
Having said all that, I could easily be convinced that I had been given bad information!  All of the photos that I can find of the DC-1 and DC-2s all have the door.  Almost all of the DC-3/C-47 photos have the door.

That's my impression, too.

Quote
At least I had a good excuse to go digging around history of a cool airplane!

Me, too!   :)
LTM,

           Marty
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JNev

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2015, 01:47:35 PM »

Cloudster II. a 2 engine pusher aircraft. taking ideas from the XB45 Mixmaster or 47 which was a 2 engine in the fuselage, 2 coounter-rotating props in the tail. The objective was to  reduce drag from engines on the wing. Neither were produced commerdially and the jet aircraft came soon after . Don't know much more about it .

Excellent!  Give the man a kewpie doll!!! ;)
- Jeff Neville

Former Member 3074R
 
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Bob Smith

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Re: Anyone know what this plane is?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2015, 08:49:06 PM »

Aww, shucks.. Here's a newer one (not a Douglas, is that allowed?) what is the name and nickname?
Bob S.
 
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