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Author Topic: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)  (Read 98174 times)

JNev

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2014, 01:37:09 PM »

It's a fever - rational thinking does tend to go out the window once Earhart bites.  The less initiated may bear some forgiveness -

You can polish your skills and make your efforts more credible, but the world will never view you as quite right again...

One does hope they will learn to apply a bit more research before public proclamation.
- Jeff Neville

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« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 03:07:51 PM by Jeffrey Neville »
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JNev

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2014, 03:05:11 PM »

Purdue files are just tore up with examples...

The second one is not her airplane (c/n 1055) but a later L10 with the then-new 'link' gear retraction system installed.  This was an upgrade to replace the worm gear that Earhart's plane had (and still had when it disappeared).  I do recall this being a 'photo op' of her at Lockheed, but don't recall the engineer's name (the fellow on her right) - but he was a big Lockheed guy who was showing off the improved system.

Significance is that this other airplane had the same feature - with no door, and no sign that a covering / door had ever been there.  I think it is safe to believe there was no battery cart plug cover on the L10.  I very much hope we might yet find a picture of 2-2-V-1, er, the patch;D with this much clear detail.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2014, 03:15:20 PM »

I'm not going to spend a lot of time searching out just the right photos but, from the Harney Drawings and this photo it looks to me like the external power plug receptacle was on the outboard side of the left engine nacelle and did not have a cover.

Now, now, Mr. Gillespie, you should know by now that things like facts and photos only get in the way of the REAL story, the one TECTIC prefers to tell.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2180 ECSP
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2014, 03:27:11 PM »

Here's another fact to throw into the mix:

The Japanese started building copies of the Lockheed Model 14 on license in 1936. It was somewhat re-engineered but was substantially the same aircraft. Basically a Model 10 on steroids, and as such the derivative was known as the Kawasaki Ki-56, or "Thalia" to the Allies.

Maybe the Japanese thought it necessary to put a flap over the external power plug?

And a Ki-56 would have had red paint in at least six places on the fuselage, in the form of the hinomaru's, or national ID insignia. Those were typically kept touched up and not allowed to fade or weather off, unlike the aircraft's camouflage.

I will now go back to rearranging my jacks collection. I think we're done here.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP



 
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2014, 03:35:36 PM »

Nope - one more! From the article:

“There’s no evidence of any U.S. or Japanese aircraft being shot down or disabled in that part of Mili Atoll. So where would this have come from? In all likelihood, it came off Earhart’s plane.”

I would gently point out there there's no evidence of any U.S. or Japanese aircraft being shot down or disabled at Nikumaroro, either - but TIGHAR found a navigator's bookcase from a B-24 there, which probably came from Canton. 200-some miles away. And pieces from the Sydney Island C-47 crash ended up at Canton and probably Niku. Soooooo ...

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
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Dan Swift

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2014, 09:14:16 AM »

Considering these Electra knockoffs were Japanese aircraft, they weren't very open about their losses in WWII...to say the least. 
Obviously they lost at least some pieces of one around Mili Atoll.   
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JNev

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2014, 10:54:26 AM »

I would caution "maybe they lost" some pieces of one or some of those - or something else.

We haven't seen what our exploring friends have found; we don't know therefore what they've found, but what they described, so far, does not seem to relate to a U.S. built Electra in any case. 

I'd still like to see what they have, and understand how they came to believe these were of the Electra.
- Jeff Neville

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2014, 11:31:36 AM »

I'm reminded of the expression, "Yo in a heap o' trouble boy."

If they didn't have a permit from the RMI Historic Preservation Office in Majuro and if their recovery of artifacts was not done according to archaeological protocols under the supervision of a degreed archaeologist they're in violation of RMI law and subject to fines.  We've done a lot of work in the Marshalls on the Devastator Project.  We work closely with the Historic Preservation Office and always get the required permits and follow sound archaeological practices.
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JNev

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2014, 01:19:25 PM »

One hopes that they did, but one wonders...

There's more to this chase than meets the average eye - educational, thanks for sharing that.
- Jeff Neville

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Monty Fowler

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2014, 02:34:36 PM »

Permits? We don't need no permits. We don't have to show you our stinkin' permits!

Being a career paper pusher, I had wondered about that aspect myself. Foreign nationals grubbing around in your territory - and removing things without telling anyone - is generally frowned upon.I have faith that TECTIC will rise up on its furthest hindlegs and screech, "But this is DIFFERENT!" Right. Like the Moon is different from the Earth, maybe.

I hope they got the required permits and did things the way they're supposed to be done, as TIGHAR takes pains to do. But if I had to put money on it, I would not choose to back this group in that regard.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR no. 2189 ECSP
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Corey Seats

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2014, 03:50:06 PM »

Long time lurker here.  Mr. Neville, the story Ric linked in the first post has photos.  Click the arrow on the right side of the photo of EA and the Electra at the top of the page.  The next photo is of the "Airwheel dust cover," and the third photo is of the "APU cover plate." ;)
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2014, 04:37:00 PM »

Corey,

Thanks for that heads up, I missed seeing those photos the first time as well.

Not sure I understand the dust cover and how it fits with the air wheel, but....

Best

Andrew
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2014, 04:37:40 PM »

For the record, here's what happened in the Marshalls.  I've kept the description general to protect our sources. The recovery of the metal was done by a prominent Marshallese businessman who did not go through any of the required legal protocols.  The metal had already been sent to the States before the authorities knew anything about it.  The businessman's status in the community and relationship with government officials insulates him from prosecution.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2014, 04:41:02 PM »

Not sure I understand the dust cover and how it fits with the air wheel, but....

It doesn't. The whole thing is unadulterated horse manure but the Kansas City Star needed "balance."
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JNev

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Re: Dust cover and cover plate (Richard Spink, Mili Atoll)
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2014, 04:44:15 AM »

Long time lurker here.  Mr. Neville, the story Ric linked in the first post has photos.  Click the arrow on the right side of the photo of EA and the Electra at the top of the page.  The next photo is of the "Airwheel dust cover," and the third photo is of the "APU cover plate." ;)

Thank you Mr. Seats.  ;)

I see the bent-up 'dust cover' and I guess that can be more or less compared to details from the Airwheel manual / catalogue - IF the person investigating will do so and provide more.  I see the suggestion of a fit by the proximity of 'dust cover' to 'wheel' - and perhaps the fellow holding is expert at Airwheels and knows.  It remains to be conveyed without ambiguity.

Until then, it's so much junk by all I can tell from that picture alone.   ???

I have no idea how the nifty weather-worn 'red' (it is) "APU cover" would relate to NR16020 - or any Electra.  Despite the familiar shape, it does not relate to the battery plug installation on the nacelle that is known of - which has no cover.  That battery plug is the closest I can get to anything remotely close to an "APU" for ground starts.  It's actually cannot be related to an APU at all if it is part of an Electra, which the model 10 Electra did not have aboard. 

There again, those claiming these parts to relate to Earhart need to show a clear correlation to something on her airplane.  All we have here is a lone, intriguing but ambiguous oval red-painted cover for something.  The two screw holes (I take them to be) actually suggest a cover for something other than a battery plug, by the way - there'd be no place on the battery plug for retaining screws as suggested by the holes in this plate.  I suggest look the bird over for some access port somewhere that uses similarly spaced screw holes for security.  It may be in the guts of the airplane - a gearbox or something in or under the cockpit floor, etc.  Good luck. 

Afterthought - oddly, it may even be found in time that this was an external cover for something on a Japanese airplane that happened to lie within the bounds of one of those infamous big red 'dots' (Monty explained it better upstring) that was painted onto their warplanes - that alone would be a neat find, whatever it is.  Earhart's airplane was not trimmed in 'red' but international orange, so I doubt that match will prove out for reasons of paint, either.

We've faced the same challenges with 2-2-V-1 and the window patch - still do: it's tough making something that might fit prove into something that did fit.  We're still going to all lengths to get photos, etc. to back up the 'might be a fit' effort.  2-2-V-1 is clearly an oddball - no obvious match to mother structure, but innovated; if it came from another type it still is not an obvious fit so far, despite all the tempting 'matching rivet lines' that have been pointed out (they've been as thoroughly checked as we know how to do - no match).

Having been a tiny part of that effort I can appreciate what our Marshall Islands friends now face to make even 'obvious' Electra parts fit the stepdaughter's foot that she might be brought to court.  Those articles are not obvious to me so far, and somehow I am not optimistic for the outcome they face.  Maybe the red cover sorts out to be distinctly 'Electra' - maybe not; even if the 'dust cover' is a match to the Airwheel, I'm not sure the Electra was the only user of that type of wheel - or that it wasn't copied by the Japanese, in fact.  That is something else that would have to be sorted out beyond doubt. 

But my hat's off to any who undertake all that to make this stick - or to stomach reaching a negative in their hypothesis.  It is not an easy 'game' - and in fact as I've learned, it is no game at all but a lot of hard work.

I hope the legalities will be resolved well enough, but what Ric has described is troubling, to say the least.  It's uncomfortable to think of holding ill-gotten stuff to make this point.  I'm sure that somehow these explorers will have to find a way to make that right.  Messy, and something for the whole community to learn from - get your bureaucratic ducks in a row before you start shooting.  Above board relations with the host country and legitimate recovery are among tne details that separate the games from hard work.
- Jeff Neville

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« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 12:11:15 PM by Jeffrey Neville »
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