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Author Topic: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart  (Read 22797 times)

Tim Mellon

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2014, 04:58:19 AM »



One of TIGHAR's strengths is that absolutely nothing is hidden. It's ALL out there. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. Always has been. Always will be.

Monty, you've got to be kidding...all the extra High Definition video footage from both 2010 and 2012 has never been seen by Forum members, and I gather according to his own statements, not even by Ric Gillespie.
Tim
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JNev

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2014, 05:53:45 AM »

I remain unceasingly amazed at what this search brings out of people.  I suspect Earhart would be utterly astonished.
- Jeff Neville

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Colin Philip Cobb

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2014, 10:05:10 AM »

I, and I'm sure others, miss Gary's contributions to the discussion on the forum.  Now we know what he's been spending his time on over the past two years.

The problem I have with Gary's way of seeing things is that it seems to come from his modern day view of what Amelia and Fred "would have" done, i.e. they would have set up an expanding box search for Howland, or how he dismisses potential evidence such as the Navy overflight or the post loss radio signals.  Gary is convinced that the Navy flyers "would have" spotted AE and FN with some 95% certainty during a 20 minute search, and therefore dismisses the possibility that they could have been on Nikumaroro at the time of the overflight. 

Similarly, he dismisses the post loss signals as being broadcasts out of Russia on reciprocal bearings to those that converge near Nikumaroro, but doesn't explain the lack of such receptions being heard prior to the flight (OK, maybe they just weren't reported), or more importantly why such random Russian transmissions just happen to peter out 5 days post loss.  If Gary is right, the incidence of reported receptions should actually increase with the vastly increased number of listeners, but they don't, they peter out and stop altogether just when the entire world was listening most intently.  One wonders what Gary thinks of the sonar anomaly that is the subject of TIGHAR's next expedition.

How does Gary explain these things?  He doesn't, he conveniently ignores them and everything else related to TIGHAR's work on Nikumaroro because it does not match up with his crashed and sank theory.  They are simply a series of odd coincidences to be ignored.  I see a series of odd but possibly related events as the dots that need to be connected in order to solve a mystery.

The website is a nice slick piece of work full of opportunities to "support" the Status Project, but it doesn't indicate what anyone gets for contributing.  To me, with all the secrecy, it looks like a big commercial publicity venture.  Don't get me wrong, looks like you're having a lot of fun with all of this, but without any disclosure from the Stratus Project it is impossible to evaluate the merits of the current thinking and what Gary has channeled from Fred that has been overlooked by all the other Earhart researchers.  Without some sort of visibility into the nitty gritty of your research, I'd be hesitant to donate money to the project. 

Colin - perhaps you can elaborate on whether all of this is a commercial venture, and what you plan to do with the aircraft after you dredge it up from the bottom somewhere near Howland?

Conversely, what are you going to do if the Electra is found in the deep water next to Nikumaroro?

Are you sure you don't want to hedge your bet and apply some of your funding to the Niku deep water anomaly search?  :-)

Looking forward to our next Guinness together.

Andrew

Hi Andrew

After that message you're buying all the Guinness next time :-)
Big commercial venture , no, we are in the process of applying for "not for profit" status.
Just incase you thought I was going to spend it on hot tub trips abroad.
And like all "not for profits" there will be accounts published online.

At this present time we are not releasing where we are searching as there are other ventures that will be in the region soon and we think it's wise to keep under wraps.
Tighar is protected by it's Antiques license against others searching in the area.
We have no such protection.

You want clarity well to date I've spent around $20k of my own personal money in the project.
But all things have a limit and any funds we do raise through the shop or donation packages go directly to administration and just keeping the awareness going.
Everything from Ashlins wage as it's her full time job to marketing and SEO for the website and some travel for talks etc.

And like other websites we own from Titanic to Jack the Ripper we pride ourselves on a good looking slick website.
If you want you're more than welcome to visit us here at Stratus HQ in Belfast, all those on the Tighar forum are welcome here to Belfast.

Our passion is born out of Amelia landing here in my home country to become the first woman to cross the Atlantic solo, we are genuine in our efforts and determined to to find Amelia's plane.
I look forward to your first T-Shirt order. :-)

Take care

Colin

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JNev

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2014, 06:13:31 PM »

I admire your spirit, Colin, and the warm ties to Earhart in Ireland.

I don't envy your search, pretty gutsy though. 

But y'know it can't be where you're lookin', 'cause it's surely at Niku...  ;D

All the best, and I still hope to check out Titanic and the Ripper one day.
- Jeff Neville

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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2014, 05:42:07 AM »

Does every visitor get the VIP tour Colin?


Gary LaPook visits Belfast

It’s been all go this last few weeks as Colin and I have been preparing for the arrival of the Stratus navigator Gary LaPook. To be fair it’s given us a kick up the backside to get everything finished as soon as possible. The biggest thing to do was our 3d theory presentation which we just about got finished in time. Still a few tweaks to do but it’s looking great.

The Irish are known for their hospitality and we definitely tried our best to give Gary a taste of Ireland. He had no clue what we would be doing until he arrived and he probably wasn’t quite expecting the whirlwind week that was in store. We combined Earhart talk with some good old fashioned sightseeing, not to mention having a couple of celestial navigation master classes by Yoda himself. So all in all this is what we crammed into the week:

Commemorated the launch of HMHS Britannic (sister of Titanic)
Had a tour of SS Nomadic (tender ship to Titanic)
Took Gary around the iconic Harland and Wolff drawing offices
Took one of the famous Belfast Black Taxi tours
Presented our 3d presentation to the team
Enjoyed a 6 course banquet marking the centenary of the launch of HMHS Britannic
Visited Bushmills distillery
Visited the famous Giant’s Causeway
Took a tour of the historic walls of Londonderry
Took Gary to Amelia’s landing site for the 1932 Transatlantic flight
Visited the Beech Hill hotel, base for American GIs in WW2
Took Gary around Titanic’s Dock and Pump-House
Had a photo shoot in the dock with a professional photographer
Had a celestial navigation master class by Gary
Took a taxi tour of Dublin
Visited the Guinness factory
As you can see this was a well-packed week!


I can personally recommend the Bushmills distillery tour! Note: Bushmills is probably the best whiskey in the world, try it.
This must be the place
 
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JNev

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2014, 12:23:01 PM »

I'm glad Gary had such a fine visit, that is very cool.

I'd love to visit the Guinness bewery.  Had a distant relative of a friend die while working there - fell into and drowned in a vat.  We'd hoped it was a quick end, but word came that he actually lingered for some time, having stepped out twice to pee...
- Jeff Neville

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Colin Philip Cobb

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2014, 02:36:57 PM »

Hell I think Gary got a bit more shine on his visit than most. :-)
Can't promise that well packed one but definitely a Titanic Quarter tour and Amelia Landing spot with lunch thrown in.  Either way you will be looked after.
:-)
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Ashlin Orrell

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2014, 05:18:05 PM »

We certainly treated Gary like a king. Our sub-sea consultant, Bryce, also enjoyed the Irish hospitality.

Good one Jeff. That's one of the signature Irish jokes ;) The Irish certainly like their drink. I'm English - I prefer tea haha.
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JNev

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2014, 10:12:35 AM »

I always admired the Irish humor.

And tea it is for me as well, Ashlin.
- Jeff Neville

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Kent Beuchert

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2014, 08:06:34 PM »

Considering the fact that Gary's claims about distances at which lights are visible to the human eye is
pure nonsense, here's hoping his theory about Noonan's thinking is a whole lot more accurate. 
Gary's theory that Noonan and Earhart would fly in search patterns until they splashed down strikes me as
pretty implausible, from a psychological point of view. I would, on the other hand, assume that they would
probably search until they reached the point at which knew they needed to fly south due to their fuel supply, and
then head south. With all those rather large islands down there, they knew they would sight at least
one. Which I believe they did. The outcome may have been bad (not all of their doing) but their strategy
was the correct strategy. I'm certain that Gary would have done the same thing. The business about Gary
being able to pinpoint the last position of their theorized search strategy requires no comment, least of all to those who inhabit this website.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2014, 09:53:37 AM »

All theories have equal validity - in the minds of their proponents - until TIGHAR finds the any idiot artifact during Niky VIII.

Although I am sure that even then, The Earhart Conspiracy Theory Industrial Complex will soldier on regardless. Sometimes the truth is a hard thing to face.

LTM, who is waiting to see how the paint dried,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
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JNev

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2014, 06:38:52 AM »

The main trouble with theories seems to be that they are theoretical, until someone does find hard evidence.

TIGHAR is often criticized for its own theory / hypothesis, others often claiming to have better theories or hypotheses (all who have a pet theory tend to tell us all why they are right, and why the the others are wrong).

I'm sure TIGHAR does not hold absolute smoking gun evidence yet, no question; but it is the only outfit that has ever found and held anything that might be related to Earhart.  How odd - all that looking the 'the right places' according to other's theories over the years and not one shred, but having looked where TIGHAR's hypothesis points we at least have some fascinating things to study.

Argue with my point here as one will - but one argues with the wind: what I've just said is hard truth.  If another would prove their theory correct, then they must stand the same test they apply to TIGHAR.

I respect Gary, for one, but also recognize that his ability to accurately determine 'what happened' is as limited as anyone's must be: he wasn't 'there' and cannot know with any certainty that Earhart and Noonan did as he thinks.  Like TIGHAR re-applying the navy's first belief about a flight terminating in the Phoenix group and refining that approach through examination of Niku and consideration of the ground facts there, Gary believes in his own interpretation of Noonan's habits and efforts as he pursues Noonan's mind through an understanding of celestial navigation.

Two things in this peculiar phenomenon (the Earhart quest, as I see it - and belong to it) intrigue me deeply:

1 - Most of us are quite capable of being driven to ruminate into 'what must have happened' and emerge with a 'picture' that we tend to believe in, and
2 - We tend to adhere so tightly to what we've allowed ourselves to see as reasonable we tend to get defensive when our notions are challenged.

I see this as largely universal among dedicated search adherents, whatever their beliefs.  But at the end of the day, all we can do is 'keep looking', if we wish to find the lost plane: none have a guarantee of success; all have nothing more than ideas for now.  Except again, one outfit so far does at least possess found physical items that may be of sacred origin... perhaps time will prove or disprove that.
- Jeff Neville

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« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 06:42:12 AM by Jeffrey Neville »
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Monty Fowler

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2015, 09:22:34 AM »

The Stratus Project seems to have gone dormant, at least judging from the complete lack of activity on its website.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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JNev

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2015, 10:55:36 AM »

I have to admit that a certain malaise has set in with me that may be more common than I'd realized:

It IS a very large ocean - WORLD, for that matter - and even if Earhart did disappear at Niku, the envirnment even within that 'box' is large and hostile to search, IMO.

Loss at open sea is even more forbidding. 

I have come some months since earlier postings about Stratus.  I cannot tell that Stratus has made big leaps - I see no big announcements.  TIGHAR is probably the most aggressive and experienced expeditioneering camp active right now, and the challenges are apparent enough.  Reality is a real bugger, too: how many people even consider Earhart to be findable?

I won't go into how one might view the various search efforts as to what they might hope for - at face value it is obviously to 'find Earhart'.  I don't konw how doable that is - but one thing is undeniable:

As long as the search is still on, there's a place for all kinds of ideas to be pitched, for sure.

My generation was not alive when she disappeared - I did not appear until two decades after she dropped from view, and my interest has been keen.  Now I see my children's generation preparing to succeed mine - and they don't seem as focused on solving these things as they are on accepting the mysterious as part of history.  The Electra may as well be like the tale of the Holy Grail to them - interesting, but not necessarily something they need to lay hands on to believe it happened, etc.

No, maybe Stratus is finding it tough to attract support to go auger yet another hole in the ocean at a place of someone's idea of where it just had to happened - within, one guesses, a block of a thousand or so square miles maybe...

What is it that really drives people to do this...  Cobb's a nice fellow, but he's human and there is, after all, no free lunch.  Having even a hotdog on Earhart's reputation can be excruciating, I suspect.
- Jeff Neville

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Mark Appel

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Re: The Stratus Project - The Search for Amelia Earhart
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2015, 12:57:45 PM »

Stratus was always a long, long shot in an ocean of long shots. I wish them well, but it was going to be a futile slog for them. The ocean is such a big blank spot. And even if Gary's navigational hypothesis has merit--small errors, miscalculations or assumptions can translate to huge distances--underwater.

It's awfully hard to capture peoples' imaginations (much less their generosity) with a value proposition that amounts to "Our proprietary calculations suggest they might have sunk 70 years ago in the vast and bottomless Pacific Indian Ocean somewhere around here." Hell, with all of today's technology at our disposal and a trove of hard data, there's a Boeing triple 7 on the floor of the Pacific, excuse me, somewhere yet to be found.

To date, TIGHAR is the only research body to put in a consistent 25-year research effort that has produced plausible evidence in support of a plausible hypothesis. And it is our good fortune that the hypothesis maps to a compelling human interest story. With all respect for their efforts (and my understanding is they are fine, capable folks), Stratus well, not so much.

"Credibility is Everything"
 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 12:03:15 PM by Mark Appel »
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